I'm pre-op for gastric bypass...

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  • Susan57
    Susan57 Posts: 40 Member
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    lapband is not near as bad. looked into it myself. did not think i could be compliant in the long run. i was pre-op too and for medical reasons i had to address them first. would like to drink a carbonated beverages and nuts. it takes more will power than i have so i am glad i did not do it. good luck 2 u.
  • caribear
    caribear Posts: 7 Member
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    I had gastric bypass 10 years ago and it was life changing. I have put 50 to 60 lbs back on in the last 3 years but i am nowhere near what i was. Just keep in mind it is a life style change not a quick fix you still have to watch what u eat. The only thing is i am vit def now. When i had it done i was cut open and could not eat anything for 6 weeks just water. But i did loose 200lbs the first year. Good Luck u will do fine just listen to the dr and keep active as much as u can. (my fear was blood clots so i walked around the house when i could) You will prob be tiard for the first couple weeks. GOOD LUCK.
  • 02bfitter
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    wow, this is a topic that has encouraged me to write about my own weight loss surgery - performed earlier this year (May in fact).
    I've always thought of myself as quite a strong minded person who encourages others to be empowered and strong of mind, body and spirit. I trained as a social worker although had a paralegal background also. After about 3 years of toing and froing as to whether I would require a RnY (gastric bypass) I finally ended up having it carried out. It was not an easy decision. But I have jumped ahead of myself. For whatever reason - and my reasons were many - there are some blockages some of us just cannot get over, whether we see a NUT (nutritionist) or therapist or do every diet imaginable. I was never a weighty kid, and nor in fact an overweight adult - till I went through menopause and also had a number of other issues that piled up so much so I just needed some serious help. So, I decided after a locum doctor suggested I was depressed and would I benefit from some therapy I decided to take control of myself - before I asked to be referred to therapy. Soooo, I sat myself down one day with my husband and told him all of my woes - hey, from child abuse, to rape, to fighting family in court to retain our family land and other family issues that try as I might - I could not hold it all together. Decision was made to at least go and talk with the surgeon (WLS) and his team - and there were many - a nurse, a psychiatrist, a nutritionist and also the surgeon. The information that they gave to me was beneficial and I came away thinking that I had not been in control of my life for such a long time. How in the world could I have been helping everyone else and yet I couldn't even help myself?
    Like I said previously I have not been severely obese but was becoming hypertensive, had had no history of high blood pressure but this was fast becoming an issue, my knees ached, I had sleep apnoea, physically I was brassed off with myself because I love to walk and exercise but it hurt so much I just couldn't tolerate it.
    The RnY operation was fine - it was 2 weeks of feeling a little uncomfortable but I did exactly what I was told - I walked and I sipped and I walked again and I sipped.... until I could eat the mush stuff - and I continue to walk and I have now become an avid fan again of gourmet cooking - the healthy way. I would do this over again in a heartbeat...... but, there are some folk that get severely depressed because they used to be able to eat whatever and their diets pre op were appalling - and they begin to be that way again if they let themselves slip back into those old habits. Why people do this I don't know although, just recently I've been having a health scare (in fact am due for a biopsy next Monday) and for the last couple of days I have had myself in "that place" again where I was putting food into my mouth without realising it. This morning I have listed down everything that I put in and if I continue along this path well, I will end up putting weight back on. It's not a nice place to be in....depression is a major factor in this battle of the bulge. However, we don't want to admit it to ourselves for fear of weakness or showing our weakness to others. This is how it was for me. I've put a lid on so many things in my life that at some point it had to combust and combust it did. I am over the moon I had my surgery - I am over the moon that I have continued to lose weight, I am over the moon that I now breathe and live for myself first and my family next..... when do we put ourselves first? With a family history of heart disease, diabetes and hypertension I didn't want to kick the bucket before I was 60!

    RnY is a "tool" - and that is all it is. What we do with the tool is up to us. It aids us only so far.... the rest is up to us - and its not about weakness or strength - it's about facing up to the reality of this life of ours. Choosing our paths wisely. I get miffed when I hear people making generalisations about why people have this invasive surgery. I tell you, its a huge step and one to be considered very carefully.

    For some people they would look at me and say I wasn't overweight - but now I've lost 30kg I'm back to where I was 5 years ago - no more pain, no more heart probs or even joint problems, no more breathlessness. I am happy and eternally grateful to the team who performed my surgery and continue to monitor my progress. Yes, here in NZ we have a "team" who stick with us for the first 12 months of this journey. They are there whenever we need them - to guide us, to give us tips on nutrition and whatever else we need to know.

    I have not dumped nor have I thrown up, food has not become stuck... mostly because I am serious about what goes in. I enjoy a high protein, low carb diet... no alcohol, no fizzy, no bread, pasta or rice.... I do however make the meanest stuffed baked fish and enjoy gourmet delights. I can even eat pancakes (made with oatmeal instead of flour) - fresh fruit and low fat yoghurt. I am not missing out on anything.

    I believe there are misconceptions out there in the world - for whatever reason..... not sure who begins some of these - obviously people who are not in the know.

    There are specific weight loss surgery websites - one is www.thinnertimes.com and its a very informative site to be involved with. I am on there as well as here. I enjoy myfitness plan because it gives me just that...... I can log everything in and be true to myself. I can easily see how people can become complacent with weight loss surgery (after it) - easy to put that extra piece of food in your mouth at times - this is the cause of vomiting.

    I will be on supplements for the rest of my life. My hair hasn't fallen out much - in fact, it all grows back and some say even more lusterous than previously. As recipients of this new tool we need a good multivitamin daily, iron tablet daily and calcium tablet daily...... these are very very important. I have a friend who had surgery 3 years ago and she stopped taking her vitamins and stopped eating the right foods - she spent all her time at McDonalds. She kept losing weight but she also became quite forgetful and had no energy - she slept all the time. Since she's been back to her surgeon and talked with him she is now back on her vitamins and eating a correct amount of food. Sometimes we do have to remind ourselves to eat 3 meals per day (or for some 6 smaller meals) and drink 8 glasses of water. I'm looking forward to the rest of my life with my new "tool" - I envisage participating in the New York marathon (a bucketlist wish) in the future - am giving myself 2 years - although 1 yr sounds even better.

    Thanks for allowing me to throw my comments on here... am happy to answer any questions regarding my journey to date.....I realise I am still fairly new to this. Cheers :)
  • fit2sit
    fit2sit Posts: 82 Member
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    There are pros and cons to a lot of things. As most people welcoming you have said. You have probably read all there is to know on the subject. My friend's soon to be ex wife had it done a couple years ago. She was about 320 when she got it and I think now she's about 160. The problem I thin kis it comes off pretty fast, and the skin doesn't have time to change, but this could have been her situation. So now she has that extra saggy skin around her midsection that will probably need plastic surgeery to remove. UNless she wants to gain the wait to fill it back and then lose at a reasonable level where it can meet her halfway.

    Just some food for thought. Don't lose it so fast that the rest of your body can't catch up.
  • magicwheat
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    My surgery was in March of 2006 and it was the best thing that I could have done. I had no complications at all from my RNY bypass and feel so much better. The pain in my feet, knees, hips and back has disappeared, I am no longer on diabetic medication, my blood pressure has returned to normal and, best of all, my resting heart rate hovers around 70 (used to be in the 90's.) I am a nurse and several of my co-workers had previously had the same surgery with minor or no complications. All of them agreed that their only regret was not having had the surgery sooner. Best of luck to you!
  • jaxkipi
    jaxkipi Posts: 233
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    Just SAY NO!!! I am a nurse and this surgery is full of complication after complication. I have seen many post op patients years later and it is never good. This surgery is surgically induced anorexia. You will vomit after every meal. Your hair, nail, and skin will become very brittle. Malnutrition is huge, because this surgery does not teach you to eat right. I encourage you to do more research before you go under the knife. Best of luck to you.

    WELL, I'm a nurse too. RN on a Transplant Unit. I see a lot of end stage diseases secondary to obesity related illnesses. I have some of those illnesses. Have you ever seen or even experienced someone who is suffering with diabetes and their kidneys have shut down? Or hypertension for the same thing. How bout someone waiting for a new liver and has end stage liver disease secondary to fatty liver. I would say that these end stages are considerably worse than some of the effects after this kind of surgery. That's not to say that it is 100% safe. Every surgery has its complications. And you are correct, do your homework before selecting a surgeon or facility. I am having mine done at Mayo Clinic. I can only hope for a good outcome. But whatever happens happens. I suffer from an array of debilitating physical symptoms of obesity.

    A co-worker of mine, another RN, had another kind of gastric bypass. She nearly died. She was on a ventilator and the works. You know what she said to me the other day when I told her I was considering the surgery? "I don't regret it. If I were asked if I would do it knowing what I went through, I would." She explained that her obesity was killing her. You can't walk without pain. Sleeping is a problem. Mentally and emotionally, you're a wreck. And the list goes on and on....It is an individual experience. I do not discourage anyone. But like other nurse said, do your homework and expect bumps in the road. It doesn't mean you won't do well. There are more cases that do well than those who don't. Best wishes to all.

    Kathy
  • tjradd73
    tjradd73 Posts: 3,495 Member
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    i agree with nicrus!!! if you can get the support i highly recommend you try it on your own!!! when i first started i had 114lbs to go and although it has been a long process for me...i really feel that it was worth the effort of doing with surgical assistance!! i have lost 50lbs and it is possible without the surgery! and he is right it has so many complications!! i also work in healthcare and have seen too many things go wrong to ever want to do it myself or anyone that i know and care about to do it either. you can do it!! :)
  • tjradd73
    tjradd73 Posts: 3,495 Member
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    jadeamber...i do wish you the best of luck if you have your mind set on it!! and although i havent had it done personally i am still here for support if you need it before and after your procedure :) just add me as a friend if you would like :)
  • vegwicked
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    I haven't had WLS, but I've known a few people that have. Wish I was more informed about the types of procedures.

    My aunt had a gastric bypass surgery about 10 years ago and lost a LOT of weight. Like she looked malnourished. She's since gained about half of it back (a lot due to being on steroids for other medical issues), but is happy as a clam. She can eat a normal-sized meal now too (half a sandwich, chips, grapes...stuff like that).

    Her daughter had the same surgery 2-3 years ago. She was in her early 20's at the time. When she was in high school she'd lost about 60 lbs with Jenny Craig very quickly and had her gallbladder removed following that weight loss because she was having so much trouble with gallstones, so she was more prepared than your average patient for that aspect of the surgery (with the type she had, they remove the gallbladder at the same time as the gastric bypass because so many patients end up having them out anyway). The reason she had the surgery at such a young age was that she'd had back problems as a result of an injury and, after several back surgeries, she was still experiencing a lot of pain but couldn't exercise [though if her mother hadn't had the surgery, I don't think she would have had it]. She lost quite a bit of weight in her face and upper body, but not so much in her lower body. She [says she] spends 2 hours/day on an exercise bike. She's also had a lot of complications with the opening to her stomach closing up entirely and having to go have it re-opened because she can't eat/drink at all. She also has to take a lot of supplements. I worry about her health in the future because she's not the most compliant patient (eating small quantities yes, but not nutrient dense foods- no wonder her hair is falling out!).

    And I have a different aunt on the other side of the family who did not have a weight problem until she gained 100 lbs with a pregnancy, then gained about 50 more, then had the surgery and lost all of it. And maybe more. And she looks fantastic. She can't tolerate sugar at all, even in fruit, but doesn't seem to have any other problems. However, IMHO, if she'd cut out sugar and scaled back her portions before the surgery it wouldn't have been necessary and she could eat a strawberry now without feeling like death.

    You know what is best for you. I agree with some previous posters that said to make changes now as if you'd already had the surgery so you're used to them. I'd also add to look into what happens when people have gallbladder issues big enough to require the removal of the gallbladder, because I understand that can be a side effect of losing weight quickly and I'd hate for you to be caught by surprise.
  • tjradd73
    tjradd73 Posts: 3,495 Member
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    i had the same issue with Jenny Craig!!! I was on it when I was 13 and I of course lost all of the weight I needed to but as soon as you tell a 13yr old that they don't need to diet anymore...that's it, right back to regular food for a teenager (fast food, icecream)!! shocks the system and I also had to have my gallladder taken out!!! yikes!!!


    I haven't had WLS, but I've known a few people that have. Wish I was more informed about the types of procedures.

    My aunt had a gastric bypass surgery about 10 years ago and lost a LOT of weight. Like she looked malnourished. She's since gained about half of it back (a lot due to being on steroids for other medical issues), but is happy as a clam. She can eat a normal-sized meal now too (half a sandwich, chips, grapes...stuff like that).

    Her daughter had the same surgery 2-3 years ago. She was in her early 20's at the time. When she was in high school she'd lost about 60 lbs with Jenny Craig very quickly and had her gallbladder removed following that weight loss because she was having so much trouble with gallstones, so she was more prepared than your average patient for that aspect of the surgery (with the type she had, they remove the gallbladder at the same time as the gastric bypass because so many patients end up having them out anyway). The reason she had the surgery at such a young age was that she'd had back problems as a result of an injury and, after several back surgeries, she was still experiencing a lot of pain but couldn't exercise [though if her mother hadn't had the surgery, I don't think she would have had it]. She lost quite a bit of weight in her face and upper body, but not so much in her lower body. She [says she] spends 2 hours/day on an exercise bike. She's also had a lot of complications with the opening to her stomach closing up entirely and having to go have it re-opened because she can't eat/drink at all. She also has to take a lot of supplements. I worry about her health in the future because she's not the most compliant patient (eating small quantities yes, but not nutrient dense foods- no wonder her hair is falling out!).

    And I have a different aunt on the other side of the family who did not have a weight problem until she gained 100 lbs with a pregnancy, then gained about 50 more, then had the surgery and lost all of it. And maybe more. And she looks fantastic. She can't tolerate sugar at all, even in fruit, but doesn't seem to have any other problems. However, IMHO, if she'd cut out sugar and scaled back her portions before the surgery it wouldn't have been necessary and she could eat a strawberry now without feeling like death.

    You know what is best for you. I agree with some previous posters that said to make changes now as if you'd already had the surgery so you're used to them. I'd also add to look into what happens when people have gallbladder issues big enough to require the removal of the gallbladder, because I understand that can be a side effect of losing weight quickly and I'd hate for you to be caught by surprise.
    [/quote]
  • sillygoose1977
    sillygoose1977 Posts: 2,151 Member
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    Just SAY NO!!! I am a nurse and this surgery is full of complication after complication. I have seen many post op patients years later and it is never good. This surgery is surgically induced anorexia. You will vomit after every meal. Your hair, nail, and skin will become very brittle. Malnutrition is huge, because this surgery does not teach you to eat right. I encourage you to do more research before you go under the knife. Best of luck to you.

    WELL, I'm a nurse too. RN on a Transplant Unit. I see a lot of end stage diseases secondary to obesity related illnesses. I have some of those illnesses. Have you ever seen or even experienced someone who is suffering with diabetes and their kidneys have shut down? Or hypertension for the same thing. How bout someone waiting for a new liver and has end stage liver disease secondary to fatty liver. I would say that these end stages are considerably worse than some of the effects after this kind of surgery. That's not to say that it is 100% safe. Every surgery has its complications. And you are correct, do your homework before selecting a surgeon or facility. I am having mine done at Mayo Clinic. I can only hope for a good outcome. But whatever happens happens. I suffer from an array of debilitating physical symptoms of obesity.

    A co-worker of mine, another RN, had another kind of gastric bypass. She nearly died. She was on a ventilator and the works. You know what she said to me the other day when I told her I was considering the surgery? "I don't regret it. If I were asked if I would do it knowing what I went through, I would." She explained that her obesity was killing her. You can't walk without pain. Sleeping is a problem. Mentally and emotionally, you're a wreck. And the list goes on and on....It is an individual experience. I do not discourage anyone. But like other nurse said, do your homework and expect bumps in the road. It doesn't mean you won't do well. There are more cases that do well than those who don't. Best wishes to all.

    Kathy

    Thank you. I'm not a nurse and I know the first comments are not entirely true. My mother also almost died from initial complications from her gastric bypass. But she has no regrets. She feels wonderful 5 years later and completes 100 mile bike rides through the mountains (something I cannot do at 33). She no longer has sleep apnea, or knee pain. She smiles and loves herself and that is worth every bit of agony we went through with her surgery.

    No, this is not for everyone but it also can't be ruled out for everyone either. I will probably have my mom around for many more years than I may have without her surgery. That means everything to me and my family.
  • lilRicki
    lilRicki Posts: 4,555 Member
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    i HIGHLY recommend going to therapy after...all of a sudden you have a brand new body, new lifestyle and new outlook on life...please for the love of god go to therapy to learn coping skills (for when you want to revert back to your old lifestyle), they will teach you relaxation therapy, if a person getting a sex change has to go to therapy to learn how to deal with their new lifestyle, so should someone losing more than 100lbs...good luck, i hope it works...but if you're already learning how to live a clean lifestyle...i'd just stick to that
  • goddesstrina
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    I'm 16 months post-op from Gastric Bypass or RNY. I've lost 158 pounds and nearly 70 inches. This surgery saved my life, but it is only a tool, and as with any tool if you don't use it properly then you can hurt yourself and/or break the tool.

    Some things you must do...
    Make consistently healthy food choices - protein first then vegy's and fresh fruit
    Maintain portion control - forever more
    Exercise daily
    Drink lots of water
    Always eat a good breakfast
    Keep food and exercise journals
    Make sure you get plenty of sleep 7-8 hours
    Go to a local support group...take your spouse or support person
    Find a good therapist

    As you can see, most of these are things that anyone trying to lose weight with or without surgery should be doing. Surgery just gets the ball rolling...the life changes you must make to support the tool and yourself are exactly the same as everyone else fighting the battle of bulge.

    Feel free to friend me, there don't seem to be many other WLSers on this site and we need to band together for support.
  • lloydrt
    lloydrt Posts: 1,121 Member
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    Regarding weight loss surgery........

    My friend and old class mate Linda D. who I love to death as a great friend......

    Linda had surgery 6 years ago, lost 115 lbs, very few complications, only one serious one right after surgery, and she looks great

    Lindas sister Suzie, had surgery 5 years ago, lost 100 lbs, and now put it all back on plus 15 more, major depression due to death of her 2 sons, she resorted back to eating, both sons were killed because of drugs and drug dealings. Her ex husband is now in prison

    Lindas sister Sandy, had surgery 5 years ago, lost 125 lbs, and now put it all back on. Very majorly depressed

    Lindas oldest sister Joan, morbidly obese and deathly afraid of surgery ,now weighs in about 400+ , had her first heart attack at 40. Not expected to live past 50. She refuses to acknowledge her morbid obesity and takes comfort in eating . Unhappy marriage.

    Lindas co worker Ruth had surgery 3 years ago, had complications while watching a basketball game, died on route to hospital.

    Lindas co worker Mike , mother in law had surgery, died 3 days after surgery due to massive fever from infection

    Again, these are only statistics of my school mate Lindas sister and friends who are dealing with obesity........You must choose what you think is good for you. I figure you're asking honest questions about weight loss surgery, and there are so many different answers out there, that Id be honest enough and give you a few examples.......


    Linda is focused, she used gastric by pass as a tool to lose the weight and keep it off, now 115 lbs lighter

    I am focused as well, and using this site as my tool in my journey to lose weight and keep it off, now 104 lbs lighter

    Good luck, I hope you find the answer.......Lloyd
  • missymeyer
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    I can totally relate to your post. I have also been overweight my whole life and finally wanted to do something about it! I am 6 weeks out of having my gastric bypass surgery and feel great! It's like the others have said though; you still have to work at it! I have a little tiney stomach and yet I still want to eat because that's what I'm used to doing! I track my calories on here to make sure I'm doing what I'm supposed to and go to the gym regularly. I am down 28 lbs and have had no complications or side affects at all! No vomiting or dumping or anything. I, too, have a family memeber who had the surgery about 9 years ago and put back on all her weight. It's still totally up to you and how willing you are to change your life. Good luck and I'm here if you need anything! :-)
    -Missy
  • Kminor67
    Kminor67 Posts: 900 Member
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    My husband had his surgery (the same one your doc recommended) two years ago, and we couldn't be more pleased with his results. He has lost a whopping 150 lbs and kept it off. There are a few things the doctors don't tell you.

    First, he has a VERY hard time tolerating red meat. Just about EVERY time he eats red meat, he vomits. His nutritionist tells him that it has something to do with the way the tissue is formed in mammals.

    Second, holidays suck. Your friends and family all gather for a feast of epic proportions, and all you can manage is a few tablespoons of food and you're done. You can still join in the fellowship and what not, but our culture revolves around food and that is a HUGE adjustment.

    Third, if you have someone, such as a spouse, roommate, significant other, who is your "eating buddy," that dynamic is going to change. Everyone you live with will be affected. No longer is dinner time a time to connect, because chances are you won't be eating the same things as the other people, or even at the same times. Another big adjustment.

    Fourth, if you do attempt to eat with other people, especially in the first 6 months post-op, it's going to be hard for you to keep your feelings to yourself, and it might ruffle some feathers. My husband was constantly looking disgusted when he would look at my plate, because of how much was on it... even if it wasn't a HUGE plate. It always looked HUGE to him, and my feelings would be hurt because he would say things like, "I cannot believe I used to eat that much" or "how can you have room for all that?" Especially with me being overweight, that was difficult to hear.

    Fifth, and lastly, get used to wasting food. DO NOT ask your significant other or whomever to finish your plate for you. It's difficult to adjust to cooking less, and that other person does not need to eat your leftovers. I gained my last twenty pounds because of this... and it's not healthy.

    Just keep in mind that any adjustments you have to make with your lifestyle due to the surgery will have to also be made by your friends and family. Be patient and kind with them.... their adjustments are voluntary while yours are forced. Good luck!
  • Kminor67
    Kminor67 Posts: 900 Member
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    Oh... and I forgot to tell you... my husband went off his BP meds, and only takes a pill now for his type 2 Diabetes. He no longer suffers from sleep apnea, and he rides his bicycle 16 miles a day... NONE of which would have happened without the surgery! He dieted for 10 years before having the surgery. He started out at 500 lbs, and got down to 350 on his own, but then could not lose anymore, no matter how hard he tried. Now he's a svelte 200 and he actually weighs less now than he did in Junior High School!!!
  • green328
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    Do it or don't, if you have made your mind up then nothing said on here will change it for you. All I can say is that I have concluded my own over eating and general sedantry lifestyle before was entirely my own fault, nothing to do with society or my upbringing or any other vague excuse, and it has taken all my resolve and tenacity to stick with the diet and fitness regime to the point where I'm happy with my status.
    Like yourself and many others I have suffered from low estime for years, letting myself go until clothes (in England anyway) that fit were hard to come by, now I'm actually just above my ideal BMI ((thankfully I'm only this heavy because I have a larger physique due to throwing weights around), and people at work are telling me I've lost too much weight, just goes to show what can be done with ALOT of will power.


    If you go for it then good luck to you, if you don't and still lose the weight, then will will have worked hard for it, and I believe you will appreciate it more.

    Take care and toodle pip!!





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  • HappilySingle
    HappilySingle Posts: 149 Member
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    This is my first post! Anyways, I had a very good friend undergo lapband over the winter. Instantly she became a "different person" and not in a good way. Her husband, who did tons of research, told me that the divorce rate among weight loss surgery receipients is something like 80%. Sure enough, she got herself a trainer, spends all day at the gym, leaving the kids home alone, eats very little when people are watching and has lost about 90 pounds. Unfortunately, she has changed soo much as a person, totally due to the surgery, that her 18 year marriage is over and she wants to file for divorce.

    So, there are "other things to consider" when thinking of such drastic measures. If she did the gym and ate as she eats now there would have been no need for the surgery.
  • lloydrt
    lloydrt Posts: 1,121 Member
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    Happily Single.......your post reminded me of something that I forgot about my school mate Linda and her sisters. Sad thing, she barely talks now to any of them. See, when they were all losing weight together , they all supported each other, and helped each other out. Ok, then when the sister Sandy started " sneaking" food and got caught, the other sisters erupted.........needless to say, ...DRAMA

    Tons of it ,then the one accused the other of eating bad foods that would kinda go straight thru you, if you know what I mean.....I think its called " dumping" where the food that the sisters were eating was bad, but it would go straight thru .......

    Ok, well more drama, the one started looking hot, and started going out to clubs after work with her girl friends, and thats why her husband got all weirded out, and ended up doing drugs and then went to prison....Strike 3, he had a bad past.....again, I know its no excuse to do drugs, but when his wife was out partying , he lost it......sad

    Now, the sisters barely if anything, talk.....and the kids were drug into the drama, so they barely speak. All because of sibling rivalery..

    Interesting note, my nephews wife had the surgery, when she was in her late 20s, lost 125 lbs, divorced him, got remarried, got divorced from the 2nd husband, and now shes gained back most of her weight.........so, I guess some of these procedures can cause problems. I didnt elaborate to the original poster, as every family is indeed different, but I do know that statistics show, over 80% of people who do go thru it, get divorced..........weird................Take care, Lloyd