A call to more heavily regulate the supplement industry

I'm rather highly educated. I have college-level education in multiple disciplines of science and research. I have a degree in a hard science (biology). I have professional experience with actual live clinical research. I am a graduate student in public health. I am, forgive me for my arrogance, rather more intelligent than the vast majority of Americans.

I have a rather higher ability to sort out "science" from "marketing" than most people, yes.

Education isn't intelligence, although I'm not questioning your IQ or anything.

That's why I listed intelligence and education separately. The line about intelligence wasn't a conclusion from the previous lines, though I see it can look that way.

Besides, my education, which is largely in science, public health, and research, is extremely relevant to my ability to make informed decisions for myself about supplements.

While it does sound like you're very well educated, intelligent, and well reasoned with most of your posts (not like I stalk you or anything), I have to think that most people given a small surplus of time and enough interest would come to the same conclusion without compulsion from an outside entity.

I'm not sure I share your optimism, given the fact that millions of people have tons of time and still load up their carts with raspberry ketones.

I'm rather highly educated. I have college-level education in multiple disciplines of science and research. I have a degree in a hard science (biology). I have professional experience with actual live clinical research. I am a graduate student in public health. I am, forgive me for my arrogance, rather more intelligent than the vast majority of Americans.

I have a rather higher ability to sort out "science" from "marketing" than most people, yes.

Education isn't intelligence, although I'm not questioning your IQ or anything.

That's why I listed intelligence and education separately. The line about intelligence wasn't a conclusion from the previous lines, though I see it can look that way.

Besides, my education, which is largely in science, public health, and research, is extremely relevant to my ability to make informed decisions for myself about supplements.

While it does sound like you're very well educated, intelligent, and well reasoned with most of your posts (not like I stalk you or anything), I have to think that most people given a small surplus of time and enough interest would come to the same conclusion without compulsion from an outside entity.

I'm not sure I share your optimism, given the fact that millions of people have tons of time and still load up their carts with raspberry ketones.

Let me help this thread out with a real example from my past experience.

Garlic supplements. Garlic supplements can thin your blood. This has the potential to be dangerous if you are taking Warfarin.

When I sold garlic supplements, I checked with my customers. I was not required to, however, and many other managers/staff did not. There is no requirement to post contra-indications on the bottle.

You can, today, go out and buy garlic oil supplements, take them on top of your Warfarin, and have no idea that there is a potential interaction.

You can also get prescriptions from different doctors that can counteract or cause a negative reaction. It is impossible to prevent that from happening. People have to be responsible. You can't force it through laws.

Honestly, I do have a friend who takes the green coffee bean supplement because she's so fed up with trying to lose weight and not succeeding. I think it's a complete waste of money and I've told her so. It's hard to see her buying things like that (and God only knows what else) when I know that it isn't doing to do a damn thing. But there's no way I--or any science--can change her mind.

If the supplement industry was regulated and that coffee bean supplement was removed from the market, I have no doubt that something else would just fill its place. And she would buy it. Repeat, ad infinitum, for a great deal of the population.

This whole thread is about telling people what to do. You think you are smarter than the rest, so you get to say what we can or can't put in our own bodies.

Actually, if you read my original post, I sort of advocate Darwin when it comes to this sort of thing. Not a fan of big govm't, though I do understand a great deal of how the FDA works and why it exists. But you were too busy doing your knee jerking exercises to realize that, I suppose.

Like the gov. has done such a great job with the Rx industry? NOT
They believe the manufacturers and then the manufacturers get to charge a few thousand times what their drugs are worth
And we want to let that happen to supplements?
Will they later come after me for growing my own herbs?

Let me help this thread out with a real example from my past experience.

Garlic supplements. Garlic supplements can thin your blood. This has the potential to be dangerous if you are taking Warfarin.

When I sold garlic supplements, I checked with my customers. I was not required to, however, and many other managers/staff did not. There is no requirement to post contra-indications on the bottle.

You can, today, go out and buy garlic oil supplements, take them on top of your Warfarin, and have no idea that there is a potential interaction.

You can also get prescriptions from different doctors that can counteract or cause a negative reaction. It is impossible to prevent that from happening. People have to be responsible. You can't force it through laws.

Unlike the garlic, those medications have warning labels.

The bottom line is that the market is NOT taking care of these things. The market has largely NOT taken care of purity, content, efficacy, and safety. The market has NOT taken care of scientifically establishing efficacy. The market has NOT taken care of scientifically establishing side effects. The market has NOT taken care of misleading labeling.

These things are - right now - actual problems. People are spending billions of dollars a year on unregulated supplements being marketed to them for essentially specious purposes. The market has not fixed this.

I wouldn't either if people are happy to spend billions on my crap.

Exactly. People are so happy to lap this stuff up, there's no market pressure for any of it. The public clearly doesn't give a damn if the stuff actually works, as long as some "expert" goes on TV and tells them it does.

But if they're so happy with the arrangement, why take it away from them? Why do you want to make people unhappy, jonnythan? First you say you're smarter, THEN you wanna take away their fun! Sheesh!

That's the thing about scientists. We don't want to be told something works. We want to see the data. We want to know what people are putting into their bodies. And then we get called a bunch of uncaring so-and-so's by paranoid, knee jerking, fine upstanding, pot smoking citizens. *sniff*

I wasn't aware scientists liked to tell people what to do.

Where am I telling someone to do something?

This whole thread is about telling people what to do. You think you are smarter than the rest, so you get to say what we can or can't put in our own bodies.

The bottom line is that the market is NOT taking care of these things. The market has largely NOT taken care of purity, content, efficacy, and safety. The market has NOT taken care of scientifically establishing efficacy. The market has NOT taken care of scientifically establishing side effects. The market has NOT taken care of misleading labeling.

These things are - right now - actual problems. People are spending billions of dollars a year on unregulated supplements being marketed to them for essentially specious purposes. The market has not fixed this.

I wouldn't either if people are happy to spend billions on my crap.

Exactly. People are so happy to lap this stuff up, there's no market pressure for any of it. The public clearly doesn't give a damn if the stuff actually works, as long as some "expert" goes on TV and tells them it does.

But if they're so happy with the arrangement, why take it away from them? Why do you want to make people unhappy, jonnythan? First you say you're smarter, THEN you wanna take away their fun! Sheesh!

That's the thing about scientists. We don't want to be told something works. We want to see the data. We want to know what people are putting into their bodies. And then we get called a bunch of uncaring so-and-so's by paranoid, knee jerking, fine upstanding, pot smoking citizens. *sniff*

I wasn't aware scientists liked to tell people what to do.

Where am I telling someone to do something?

This whole thread is about telling people what to do. You think you are smarter than the rest, so you get to say what we can or can't put in our own bodies.

The thread is a discussion on potentially regulating and industry. Not telling individuals they can or cannot consume something.

Let me help this thread out with a real example from my past experience.

Garlic supplements. Garlic supplements can thin your blood. This has the potential to be dangerous if you are taking Warfarin.

When I sold garlic supplements, I checked with my customers. I was not required to, however, and many other managers/staff did not. There is no requirement to post contra-indications on the bottle.

You can, today, go out and buy garlic oil supplements, take them on top of your Warfarin, and have no idea that there is a potential interaction.

You can also get prescriptions from different doctors that can counteract or cause a negative reaction. It is impossible to prevent that from happening. People have to be responsible. You can't force it through laws.

You're right. It's hopeless. Let's not even try.

And food safety - to heck with it. You can catch E.Coli from spinach grown in your garden, right? So why make farms adhere to any sort of safety standards?

Drug testing? Nah, just let them put it on the market and find out about side effects from the populous. I'm sure if enough people die, then the links will be made to the drugs in at least a couple of years, and the company will get it right off the shelf before too many more people die or are made sick enough to live the rest of their lives in financial ruin from medical bills.

Your nihilistic viewpoints ignore the fact that you are currently protected by countless regulations, and you have no idea what would happen if they were not in place. We all live a luxurious, protected life, with little or no worry about the safety of the food we eat and the medicines we use, precisely because of the regulations you so despise.

What *must* be done is to have an avenue of justice for victims. We must keep laws simple and to the point. A false sense of security is much more dangerous than a free market.

The bottom line is that the market is NOT taking care of these things. The market has largely NOT taken care of purity, content, efficacy, and safety. The market has NOT taken care of scientifically establishing efficacy. The market has NOT taken care of scientifically establishing side effects. The market has NOT taken care of misleading labeling.

These things are - right now - actual problems. People are spending billions of dollars a year on unregulated supplements being marketed to them for essentially specious purposes. The market has not fixed this.

I wouldn't either if people are happy to spend billions on my crap.

Exactly. People are so happy to lap this stuff up, there's no market pressure for any of it. The public clearly doesn't give a damn if the stuff actually works, as long as some "expert" goes on TV and tells them it does.

But if they're so happy with the arrangement, why take it away from them? Why do you want to make people unhappy, jonnythan? First you say you're smarter, THEN you wanna take away their fun! Sheesh!

That's the thing about scientists. We don't want to be told something works. We want to see the data. We want to know what people are putting into their bodies. And then we get called a bunch of uncaring so-and-so's by paranoid, knee jerking, fine upstanding, pot smoking citizens. *sniff*

I wasn't aware scientists liked to tell people what to do.

Where am I telling someone to do something?

This whole thread is about telling people what to do. You think you are smarter than the rest, so you get to say what we can or can't put in our own bodies.

The thread is a discussion on potentially regulating and industry. Not telling individuals they can or cannot consume something.

That completely ignores consumers, as if consumers have *nothing* to do with the very existence of an industry. People don't buy things because they are for sale. Rather, people sell things that consumers want to buy.

The bottom line is that the market is NOT taking care of these things. The market has largely NOT taken care of purity, content, efficacy, and safety. The market has NOT taken care of scientifically establishing efficacy. The market has NOT taken care of scientifically establishing side effects. The market has NOT taken care of misleading labeling.

These things are - right now - actual problems. People are spending billions of dollars a year on unregulated supplements being marketed to them for essentially specious purposes. The market has not fixed this.

I wouldn't either if people are happy to spend billions on my crap.

Exactly. People are so happy to lap this stuff up, there's no market pressure for any of it. The public clearly doesn't give a damn if the stuff actually works, as long as some "expert" goes on TV and tells them it does.

But if they're so happy with the arrangement, why take it away from them? Why do you want to make people unhappy, jonnythan? First you say you're smarter, THEN you wanna take away their fun! Sheesh!

That's the thing about scientists. We don't want to be told something works. We want to see the data. We want to know what people are putting into their bodies. And then we get called a bunch of uncaring so-and-so's by paranoid, knee jerking, fine upstanding, pot smoking citizens. *sniff*

I wasn't aware scientists liked to tell people what to do.

Where am I telling someone to do something?

This whole thread is about telling people what to do. You think you are smarter than the rest, so you get to say what we can or can't put in our own bodies.

The thread is a discussion on potentially regulating and industry. Not telling individuals they can or cannot consume something.

That completely ignores consumers, as if consumers have *nothing* to do with the very existence of an industry. People don't buy things because they are for sale. Rather, people sell things that consumers want to buy.

I'm currently taking some MBA marketing courses. I can tell you that this is categorically wrong.