Is DOMS necessary?

DOMS is a physical response to the work. Without progressive work, you won't see results. That said, your body will adapt to your new work loads and get better at it, resulting in less DOMS. In fact, most lifters miss DOMS when they subside. The no pain no gain mantra should have one more phrase in the middle to read, no pain no rest no gain. Let DOMS tell you when to go back at it, then hit it hard again. Your muscles will adapt and you'll be better for it.

I've been wondering. Is DOMS really necessary?

I've run for a year now. The result is visible muscle gain and I'm obviously a lot stronger and more stable through my core, hips, legs and feet. However, until my half-marathon training long runs (and those were only once a week), there was little soreness after the workouts (and I worked HARD on some of them).

How come, when I lift, it's expected that I won't be able to raise my arms all the way the next day, etc.? I've never questioned this until now and wanted to know whether there was science behind that result or whether that was just a traditional expectation, like women doing high reps at a low weight.

If you can't lift your arms, you overworked yourself. Going to failure, "burnout sets," it's all broscience that is not necessary to grow and get stronger.

That's what my understanding was. But I get the same microtears when I run, and I can still walk up stairs without pain.

My understanding is that the microtears are what cause muscle growth and why rest/crosstraining days are necessary (even if you feel "good," because it allows your body a chance to repair and build) and why stretching is beneficial (to ensure that the new muscle is aligned when it's laid down).

ETA: And sorry if this seems really basic.

ETA: And thank you for reading and responding!

Lifting weights and running are very different, it's not putting your muscles under exactly the same type of stress. That's potentially why you weren't seeing DOMS, more of a lactic acid buildup. Plus you have been running for a year (and are therefore more used to the "pain" of running), and not as used to lifting (yet), so you feel it more.

DOMS is a physical response to the work. Without progressive work, you won't see results. That said, your body will adapt to your new work loads and get better at it, resulting in less DOMS. In fact, most lifters miss DOMS when they subside. The no pain no gain mantra should have one more phrase in the middle to read, no pain no rest no gain. Let DOMS tell you when to go back at it, then hit it hard again. Your muscles will adapt and you'll be better for it.

What's enough rest? I was just having a similar conversation- and I'm not sure what I should be doing. I had a pretty intense workout the other day (didn't realize it at the time) and I could hardly move yesterday. I had trouble getting up from a sitting position, trouble getting into a sitting position- I was a hobbling mess. I drank a lot of water yesterday and got a lot of sleep last night. I'm still sore, but less sore than yesterday. Do I wait until I no longer feel sore at all? Or, if I'm feeling a little better today, go in?

Early on, I'd give it 72 hours between working sessions. Once your muscles adapt, you'll be able to drop it to 48 hours. If you're really giving your all and feel fully recovered in 48 hours, it may be time to look into a split routine or make some changes to the overall program to keep getting results.

That's what my understanding was. But I get the same microtears when I run, and I can still walk up stairs without pain.

Where do you feel the DOMS when you lift? I'd assume part of why you don't get a similar feeling after running and then walking up stairs is that movement has become commonplace with your body. The majority of people walk regularly enough that even if you were a little sore after a run, you're likely to heal overnight. Other less-used muscles might take longer.

The difference is your muscles (slow twitch) were already conditioned from your prior walking and running. Each run now is done with conditioned legs. When you lift weights, you're activating the fast twitch muscle (different fibers) which aren't conditioned from running. Your fast twitch muscle will reach a level of conditioning where DOMS will subside and may even go away.

I don't want to be argumentative but when I started running, it wasn't on conditioned legs. I started running when it was tough to walk a mile. Running itself was HARD. 30 seconds was HARD. I was hugely overweight and could barely lift my feet. However, I was never sore after.

At the same time, if I did squats and lunges, I'd feel it the next day.

When I got up to a 10 mile base, I started speed work. Intervals, specifically to build fast twitch fibers. I'd run until I couldn't breathe. I could barely lift my legs on the last sprint. The cool-down run was one of the toughest workouts of my life. Never sore after.

I was doing New Rules of Lifting for Women 3X/week and was sore the next day.

After I started running 7-12 miles, the next day felt a lot like "leg day" but, as I said that was once a week, and most of my muscle building had already been accomplished with no soreness.

I get where you're coming from, but still different muscles and different muscle fibers. Yes, running sprints with rests between would work fast twitch muscle (some), it isn't putting the same load that you're getting lifting. Nor is it working in the same plane (requiring different muscles). My guess is your intervals included slow running/jogging rests.

To say you weren't conditioned for forward movement prior to running isn't true. You've walked most of your life, and your training over time was generally progressive (especially once you started running). Run a marathon when you haven't adequately built of the muscles for it and you'll get one hell of a DOMS effect.

As a little experiment, try this: On a running day with legs fully recovered, find a long hill that is at a grade greater than 20%. Do a short warm up like you would for a weight session. Sprint (running for your life hard) for ten to fifteen seconds, stop and rest (no walking or jogging) for 30 - 45 seconds. Repeat this ten times. Walk back down the hill for your cool down and stretch as you normally would after a weight training session.

Just to say, I go it very sore after doing a short run this week. Brand new runner. It was outside.