Stop Doing Sit-Ups!
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I apologise Tonya...however, I think you find people will call you tony due to your username...I certainly don't go looking at everyone's signatures to respond to them! I use your username...because it's your username after all.
I have a best female friend called tony, so didn't realise I was missing an A :laugh:
Can't everyone just agree to diagree? That's what forums are for afterall? for discussion and debate? I think discussions only end up in positive learning...
Sheesh...no need to get personal :noway:
It's not a big deal, that's why I haven't mentioned it previously. But my user name is TrainingWithTonya, not TrainingWithTony. As soon as I realized that the forums cut it off (even though it isn't cut off on my profile), I made sure to put my name in my signature so that people would know who they are conversing with. I don't want anyone to think I am misrepresenting myself.
As for the forums, I agree and disagree with you.
Discussion is great. Passing on information that is misquoted and incorrect is common, though, and some of it can lead to injury, which isn't so great. Just like in a gym, if I see something that has the potential to cause harm, it is my ethical responsibility as a fitness professional to inform the person so that they have the opportunity to prevent an injury. In a forum, I feel that there are a lot of very well meaning people, like the person who started this thread, who have been poorly informed by the media system that promote a lot of bad information. They think they are helping others by posting articles they see in popular magazines or online. Unfortunately, popular media is only about sales figures and not about actual benefit. Knowing that ab work is so unpopular (Heck, I teach it and still don't like doing it!), they know that they aren't going to sell magazines by saying do more ab work, so they take a sentence or two that a professional says and twist it around to a story that will sell magazines. And people who hate ab work will buy them because they want to know this new fabulous way to work their abs without having to do the dreaded crunch. It's human nature. I just hate that people don't realize that they have to read the real research to get the full story and most people don't have the resources to read the real research, so they are stuck believing the popular media portrayal of it. Since I'm actually involved in a program that does research and have access to the research studies when they are peer reviewed and published, I try to share the real information so that people don't get hurt. I'm not personally offended by people who don't believe the science, just frustrated that they may take others with them down the road to injury. 0 -
And I'm just mostly frustrated by Tony.0
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There's nothing wrong with crunches. The problem is based in a misunderstanding of how the abs work. They stabalize the core, but the actuall muscles work to bring the chest closer to the hips. This is why traditional situps are useless. The chest doesn't move any closer to the hips. Instead, the hip flexors (the muscles the bring your KNEES closer to your chest) take over. The hip flexors also do all the work when you do leg lifts and keep your butt on the ground. If, however, you lift your butt off the ground at the top of a leg lift, your abs are activated, but ONLY in the act of lifting the butt off the ground. Any strain placed on the abs during leg lifts is purely because the abs are tihgtening to stabalize everything else.
Exercises that only tighten the abs and don't allow the muscle to contract under tension are highly inefficient for training the muscls themselves. That would be like just holding a bar over your head and saying you did overhead presses, or simply holding a bar on your back and saying you did squats.
My favorite ab exercises are weighted crunches (I like to use the lower cable on a cable station for these while laying on a sideways bench to increase range of motion. I hold a bar attached to the cable on either side of my head, then allow my abs to stretch fully, then squeeze my chest towards my hips.) and incline bench leg lifts, making sure to lift my butt off the bench as soon in the movement as possible so the weight of my legs is placed on my abs as they contract, as opposed to lifting my legs all the way up, THEN lifting my butt. Remember, your abs are only working when your butt is off the ground in leg lifts.0 -
Tate - That makes quite a bit of sense! Thanks! I've been working hard to avoid further damaging my lower back (problems for years down there!), these sound like good options.0
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Thank you for this post! I don't do situps or crunches much, but I was gonna try the challenge. Not anymore!0
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No problem. The truth is that abs only need very small movements while being trained. While sitting in a chair, arch your back and stick your chest out a little. Now round your back and face your chest towards the top of your thighs. This is the entire ROM (range of motion) for the abs that we consider the "6 pack". This same motion, while under tension, trains most of your abdominal muscles. The tension comes from gravity and weights if your on your back, or cables if your on your knees. Trying to use too big on an ROM is when you get into trouble and start twisting up your back. Just squeeze, then release.0
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Haven't bothered to read some of the arguing / bickering going on here but have read enough of it to kinda shake my head. Look, do ANY exercise with poor form and you are going to hurt yourself. There are a lot of Yoga moves that I would say put as much, if not more, strain on your spine. I like my crunches and sit ups and have only recently learned proper form and my neck no longer hurts by doing them. I am about to start P90X that has an entire DVD dedicated to abs and I would hazard a guess that some of these moves are included.
In regard to the leg raises ... There was a whole section in the 30DS that worked the lower obliques which also works the hip flexers but they DID work my lower obliques and abdominals. I know because I measured ... as well as starting to get the "V" at the bottom. I think they DO help the abs and a personal trainer (certified) had me doing them as well for the same reasons.
Anyway ... the OP posted an article worth reading BUT I think that form is key here.0 -
No problem. The truth is that abs only need very small movements while being trained. While sitting in a chair, arch your back and stick your chest out a little. Now round your back and face your chest towards the top of your thighs. This is the entire ROM (range of motion) for the abs that we consider the "6 pack". This same motion, while under tension, trains most of your abdominal muscles. The tension comes from gravity and weights if your on your back, or cables if your on your knees. Trying to use too big on an ROM is when you get into trouble and start twisting up your back. Just squeeze, then release.
That is CRAZY! I never knew that would have any effect! I just did it for two minutes and felt a burn after about 20-30 seconds!0 -
I wouldn't be where I am today without a variation of crunches.0
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No problem. The truth is that abs only need very small movements while being trained. While sitting in a chair, arch your back and stick your chest out a little. Now round your back and face your chest towards the top of your thighs. This is the entire ROM (range of motion) for the abs that we consider the "6 pack". This same motion, while under tension, trains most of your abdominal muscles. The tension comes from gravity and weights if your on your back, or cables if your on your knees. Trying to use too big on an ROM is when you get into trouble and start twisting up your back. Just squeeze, then release.
That is CRAZY! I never knew that would have any effect! I just did it for two minutes and felt a burn after about 20-30 seconds!
Yup. Now just lay on the ground with a rolled up towel under your lower back and do the exact same thing. All you have to do is raise your shoulders about 3 inches off the ground and squeeze. Another way of thinking about it is that a string is tied to your chin and someone is standing above you pulling the string. Raise your chin just a few inches, using your abs to do the lifting, then smoothly release back down. That's an old trick people use to keep from kinking your neck towards your pelvis.0 -
No problem. The truth is that abs only need very small movements while being trained. While sitting in a chair, arch your back and stick your chest out a little. Now round your back and face your chest towards the top of your thighs. This is the entire ROM (range of motion) for the abs that we consider the "6 pack". This same motion, while under tension, trains most of your abdominal muscles. The tension comes from gravity and weights if your on your back, or cables if your on your knees. Trying to use too big on an ROM is when you get into trouble and start twisting up your back. Just squeeze, then release.
That is CRAZY! I never knew that would have any effect! I just did it for two minutes and felt a burn after about 20-30 seconds!
Yup. Now just lay on the ground with a rolled up towel under your lower back and do the exact same thing. All you have to do is raise your shoulders about 3 inches off the ground and squeeze. Another way of thinking about it is that a string is tied to your chin and someone is standing above you pulling the string. Raise your chin just a few inches, using your abs to do the lifting, then smoothly release back down. That's an old trick people use to keep from kinking your neck towards your pelvis.
Great way to describe a proper way to do a crunch. I rarely work my abs because I don't know the proper form and my neck always ends up hurting.
Question. What do you think of the machine that supports your neck while doing crunches at the gym? I hear it's useless, but it was the only way I enjoyed doing crunches. Now I just get on the contraption where you hold on to the handles, then hang and pull your legs up... :ohwell:0 -
If you're talking about the litte tubey thing wtih the pad for your head, it's not a bad thing, but people tend to use their arms to "pull" their head up, which is a HUGE no-no and does absolutely nothing for your abs. If, instead, you sort of "lock" your arms, chest, and head in place and use the squeezing of your abs to roll the machine up, then it works alright.
In the same way, using ab straps and lifting your legs can be good or bad. If you simply lift your legs, then your abs aren't doing anything. Your hip flexors are doing all the work. However, if you squeeze your abs and bring you hips up towards your chest as you raise your legs, you'll hit your abs. Note; The correct version is MUCH harder, which is probably why most people don't do it.
In my opinion, doing crunches while holding a weight above your chest and doing leg lifts where you lift your butt off the ground at the top are just about the best ab exercises around, and give you the smallest margin for error. With many "ab" exericises you can get away with not using your abs at all and still have it "look" correct.
What most people don't realize is that your abdominals are "fast twitch" muscles. These types of muscles need heavy resistance and lower reps to respond and grow stronger. Instead people use no resistance other then bodyweight and do high reps, then wonder why their abs don't seem to change.
One more thing; You will never see your abs if they are covered in fat, and you can't lose fat from just one place. In the same vein, you can NEVER do a single ab exercise and you'll still have a 6 pack if you don't have any fat on your body, but you'll be weak and injury prone as well without a strong core.0 -
If you're talking about the litte tubey thing wtih the pad for your head, it's not a bad thing, but people tend to use their arms to "pull" their head up, which is a HUGE no-no and does absolutely nothing for your abs. If, instead, you sort of "lock" your arms, chest, and head in place and use the squeezing of your abs to roll the machine up, then it works alright.
In the same way, using ab straps and lifting your legs can be good or bad. If you simply lift your legs, then your abs aren't doing anything. Your hip flexors are doing all the work. However, if you squeeze your abs and bring you hips up towards your chest as you raise your legs, you'll hit your abs. Note; The correct version is MUCH harder, which is probably why most people don't do it.
In my opinion, doing crunches while holding a weight above your chest and doing leg lifts where you lift your butt off the ground at the top are just about the best ab exercises around, and give you the smallest margin for error. With many "ab" exericises you can get away with not using your abs at all and still have it "look" correct.
What most people don't realize is that your abdominals are "fast twitch" muscles. These types of muscles need heavy resistance and lower reps to respond and grow stronger. Instead people use no resistance other then bodyweight and do high reps, then wonder why their abs don't seem to change.
One more thing; You will never see your abs if they are covered in fat, and you can't lose fat from just one place. In the same vein, you can NEVER do a single ab exercise and you'll still have a 6 pack if you don't have any fat on your body, but you'll be weak and injury prone as well without a strong core.
Thank so much for taking the time to descibe it to me. I've been doing it all wrong :grumble: .
I'm definately never gonna see a sixpack... i love chocolate too much :laugh: But I do want to strengthen my abs and back. Don't want to hurt my back because I barely work those muscles.
I will practice those 2 exercises you described. I'm pretty good with the leglifts (making sure I raise my booty off the ground). I just never do them The crunch with the weight on my chest, sounds a little too much for me , but I will go hide in the corner of the gym and give it a try... I'm doing them on a ball. is that correct? Thanks again.0 -
I sure don't know why all the chiropractors are pointing to the studies like those done at the University of Waterloo on the spine and how situps exert more than the recommended newtons of force on your back. It just makes no sense since Tony can't find anything. Weird right? All those chiropractors and none of them know **** about back strain and what can cause it. Weird.
It all boils down to all chiro's not wanting people to strain their back. Goody, great, but in reality, we have been bending our backs for oh... what... about 100 million years now? The people who hurt themselves are the same ones who are not doing the crunch properly. Anyone who complains of their neck hurting should NOT be yanking their neck up to pull up the rest of their torso, they should be looking up at the ceiling and using their abs to pull up with... and take the hands off the back of their necks altogether and spread your arms away from your body.
My chiropractor says crunches are great for you as long as you are not going so far as to reverse bend the small in your back. You have a natural arch in your upper back that will support a crunch perfectly and hence is a great exercise. I only ever had to see my chiro BECAUSE of full situps in the first place because of how hard they are on your sacroiliac against the floor. Since then my crunches don't hurt me at all once I began doing them correctly.0 -
Butt lifts are awesome for the core too, I find.0
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If you're talking about the litte tubey thing wtih the pad for your head, it's not a bad thing, but people tend to use their arms to "pull" their head up, which is a HUGE no-no and does absolutely nothing for your abs. If, instead, you sort of "lock" your arms, chest, and head in place and use the squeezing of your abs to roll the machine up, then it works alright.
In the same way, using ab straps and lifting your legs can be good or bad. If you simply lift your legs, then your abs aren't doing anything. Your hip flexors are doing all the work. However, if you squeeze your abs and bring you hips up towards your chest as you raise your legs, you'll hit your abs. Note; The correct version is MUCH harder, which is probably why most people don't do it.
In my opinion, doing crunches while holding a weight above your chest and doing leg lifts where you lift your butt off the ground at the top are just about the best ab exercises around, and give you the smallest margin for error. With many "ab" exericises you can get away with not using your abs at all and still have it "look" correct.
What most people don't realize is that your abdominals are "fast twitch" muscles. These types of muscles need heavy resistance and lower reps to respond and grow stronger. Instead people use no resistance other then bodyweight and do high reps, then wonder why their abs don't seem to change.
One more thing; You will never see your abs if they are covered in fat, and you can't lose fat from just one place. In the same vein, you can NEVER do a single ab exercise and you'll still have a 6 pack if you don't have any fat on your body, but you'll be weak and injury prone as well without a strong core.
Thank so much for taking the time to descibe it to me. I've been doing it all wrong :grumble: .
I'm definately never gonna see a sixpack... i love chocolate too much :laugh: But I do want to strengthen my abs and back. Don't want to hurt my back because I barely work those muscles.
I will practice those 2 exercises you described. I'm pretty good with the leglifts (making sure I raise my booty off the ground). I just never do them The crunch with the weight on my chest, sounds a little too much for me , but I will go hide in the corner of the gym and give it a try... I'm doing them on a ball. is that correct? Thanks again.
The key to strengthening any muscle is progression. So start by simply holding a 2.5 lb plate in your hands wtih your arms straight above your chest. You can use a ball if you want, but a rolled up towel or sideways bench will keep you from falling over (The idea of having to balance yourself being helpful to your exercise is complete and utter bunk. All it does is keep you from using adequate resistance to stimulate the muscle because you're more worried about falling over.) Then in your next session use a 5 lb plate, then a 7lb dumbell in your next session, so on and so forth. This increasing resistance is what forces your muscles to get stronger.
Btw, when you do the crunch, simply squeeze your abs and feel like you're trying to touch the ceiling with the weights in your hands. Same idea as the string to the chin, and far more effective then holding the weight on your chest.0 -
thaanks for making me laugh, i was having a bad day!0
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