I'm a Chauvinist?
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I can only say that I appreciate it when someone holds the door for me. I have 3 (grown) sons, they had better hold the door for a woman. If not, "Momma's gonna get ugly."
I am raising my sons to be couteous and polite (they are 7) so I fully appreciate your statement!!
Okay so I'm at risk of sounding extremely chauvinistic here, but so many women I know on MFP and in real life always feel obligated to show their sons the importance of being a gentleman. In my opinion, this is the father's responsibility to show them how to be a man.
Absolutely. Meanwhile, mothers should focus their efforts on their daughters and teach them how to properly scrub pots and pans and pump out babies.
Often times mothers need to show their sons how to be a man because the father is nowhere to be found...0 -
Yep, you sure do. Not everybody has a father in their life (for a variety of reasons, none of which require you to pass judgment on), and not every mother has the luxury of delegating the responsibility of teaching human decency to their children. I'm pretty sure you don't need a penis to teach someone how to behave like a gentleman. Are girls raised by their fathers doomed to a lifetime of un-ladylike behavior (whatever TF that means...)?Okay so I'm at risk of sounding extremely chauvinistic here, but so many women I know on MFP and in real life always feel obligated to show their sons the importance of being a gentleman. In my opinion, this is the father's responsibility to show them how to be a man.
Don't be so haste to say that I'm passing judgement. I do correct myself in that I should have noted that "if there is a father figure" in the son's life.
I didn't really feel the need to write an entire essay on listing all the other factors...just a quick forum post. We're being nice here people : )0 -
Then here's a helpful tip. If you preface what you're saying with "at the risk of sounding whatever", that's your red flag that other people are going to think that you sound whatever. What inevitably follows "I don't mean to sound racist, but..."?
Yep, you sure do. Not everybody has a father in their life (for a variety of reasons, none of which require you to pass judgment on), and not every mother has the luxury of delegating the responsibility of teaching human decency to their children. I'm pretty sure you don't need a penis to teach someone how to behave like a gentleman. Are girls raised by their fathers doomed to a lifetime of un-ladylike behavior (whatever TF that means...)?Okay so I'm at risk of sounding extremely chauvinistic here, but so many women I know on MFP and in real life always feel obligated to show their sons the importance of being a gentleman. In my opinion, this is the father's responsibility to show them how to be a man.
Don't be so haste to say that I'm passing judgement. I do correct myself in that I should have noted that "if there is a father figure" in the son's life.
I didn't really feel the need to write an entire essay on listing all the other factors...just a quick forum post. We're being nice here people : )0 -
I fully expect someone to hold a door for me - particularly a man. I also hold the door for other people. I have taught my daughter who just turned 7 to do the same. She also has to say please and thank you to just about everything. one of my friends gives me a hard time but there is no way she is not going to have manners.
One of my coworkers, who I already believe to be completely arrogant, will not hold the door for me - or anyone. All of his friends do so I called him out on it one day and all his friends gave him a hard time. I'm glad I saids eomthing. It's common courtesy.
The funny thing of this is when I was fatter nobody would hold a door for me, help me, look at me etc unless i was traveling alone with my then toddler daughter. Now, people definitely hold the door and are more courteous. I have also been spoiled by my husband who always holds the doors, carries the bags, pulls my chair etc. So now I do think it's abnormal when people don't do that for other people.0 -
Then here's a helpful tip. If you preface what you're saying with "at the risk of sounding whatever", that's your red flag that other people are going to think that you sound whatever. What inevitably follows "I don't mean to sound racist, but..."?
Yep, you sure do. Not everybody has a father in their life (for a variety of reasons, none of which require you to pass judgment on), and not every mother has the luxury of delegating the responsibility of teaching human decency to their children. I'm pretty sure you don't need a penis to teach someone how to behave like a gentleman. Are girls raised by their fathers doomed to a lifetime of un-ladylike behavior (whatever TF that means...)?Okay so I'm at risk of sounding extremely chauvinistic here, but so many women I know on MFP and in real life always feel obligated to show their sons the importance of being a gentleman. In my opinion, this is the father's responsibility to show them how to be a man.
Don't be so haste to say that I'm passing judgement. I do correct myself in that I should have noted that "if there is a father figure" in the son's life.
I didn't really feel the need to write an entire essay on listing all the other factors...just a quick forum post. We're being nice here people : )
You are correct. I should have done a better job with my wording.0 -
Oh my word! You must go through life positively filled with disappointment! I think manners are something you're supposed to practice without expecting them in return. That way you can be pleasantly surprised when you encounter them.I fully expect someone to hold a door for me - particularly a man.
I am, however, appalled at the idea that someone would berate someone else for having the audacity to hold the door for them. /shudder0 -
he probably thought your wife was a strong independent woman who don't need no man opening doors for her.0
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If I reach the door first I hold it for those behind me, it's just how I was raised and how I am raising my kids.Remove "woman" from just about every statement and it's not chauvinism, but common courtesy.
QFT. I would hold a door open for anyone that had their hands full!0 -
Last night my wife travelled about 80 miles to help my daughter pack up her apartment in preparation for moving. As my wife was walking up the walkway to the apartment building, a College student (male) walked ahead of her, opened the door, entered, and let it shut on my wife. My wife had a vacuum cleaner in one hand and a carpet cleaner in the other.
I know the kid didn't do anything wrong, but, when my wife called last night and told me, it plssed me off.
What happened to manners? Opening doors for other people? Giving up your seat to a woman or an older person? Standing when a woman enters the room?
These are just common courtesies that we were raised to practice. Does showing courtesy and/or deference make me a Chauvinist?
One thing that I have noticed over tha last few years is that when I open a door for someone and let them enter ahead of me, they are surprised. Is it that uncommon now?
I'm a little dissappointed. People are so self-involved. Half the younger people I see these days have ear buds in and are looking down at their cell phone, texting. They don't even know what is going on around them. But, I guess, I prefer to thing that they are unaware than intentionally rude.
I am replying to this before even reading the replies
But I just had to say that I totally agree with you on the lack of manners and self-involvement. I come from a very old-fashioned southern upbringing, and I think it's sad that people, and largely, but not exclusively, young people do not know how to interact with others courteously. And I don't think it's a male/female issue. I ALWAYS open a door for someone with their hands full, and about half the time, I'll get a thank you. I don't do it to be thanked. I do it to be kind.
I can't tell you, though, how many times I've had a door slammed in my face when my hands were full, by older men.
My siblings and I were just taught to be kind, considerate, and help out when we could. And it's stuck. That's not being taught much anymore (and I'm not saying never. But it certainly isn't as prevalent.)
You're not a chauvinist, RD. Well, not because of THAT!
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Then here's a helpful tip. If you preface what you're saying with "at the risk of sounding whatever", that's your red flag that other people are going to think that you sound whatever. What inevitably follows "I don't mean to sound racist, but..."?
+10 -
I open the door for everyone and commonly stand out in the snow to hold the door open for families walking into a restaurant I was about to walk into.
Fiance usually gets the inside door for the families because despite pleading he can't get me to move. :P0 -
I may die of shock. This sort of interaction is unprecedented on the internet! :happy:You are correct. I should have done a better job with my wording.
May I reflect what I think you might have meant? Perhaps you were thinking that it was the father's responsibility to teach his sons how to behave like a gentleman? If so, I will certainly agree with that. I just happen to think it's equally the mother's responsibility. One parent's action or inaction does not negate the other's responsibility, even if there is a mother and a father in the picture. Every parent is 100% responsible for his or her child (until adulthood, of course). It's like marriage-- it's not a 50/50% proposition. It's a 100%/100% proposition.
Are we pretty much on the same page?0 -
Oh my word! You must go through life positively filled with disappointment! I think manners are something you're supposed to practice without expecting them in return. That way you can be pleasantly surprised when you encounter them.I fully expect someone to hold a door for me - particularly a man.
I am, however, appalled at the idea that someone would berate someone else for having the audacity to hold the door for them. /shudder
I'm not disappointed. I believe in teh courtesy of human beings. I am polite and well mannered regardless of those around me. But thank you for believing I shuold be filled with disappointment. I will definitely try to be more pessimistic going forward and less believing in random kindness and manners from other people.
I did not "berate" anyone. I called him out teasingly around his friends who i also talk with/joke with frequently. I would hardly call that berating.
Sorry I did not word my response correctly0 -
I may die of shock. This sort of interaction is unprecedented on the internet! :happy:You are correct. I should have done a better job with my wording.
May I reflect what I think you might have meant? Perhaps you were thinking that it was the father's responsibility to teach his sons how to behave like a gentleman? If so, I will certainly agree with that. I just happen to think it's equally the mother's responsibility. One parent's action or inaction does not negate the other's responsibility, even if there is a mother and a father in the picture. Every parent is 100% responsible for his or her child (until adulthood, of course). It's like marriage-- it's not a 50/50% proposition. It's a 100%/100% proposition.
Are we pretty much on the same page?
Oh now you're just putting words in my mouth. Typical woman.
; )0 -
Then here's a helpful tip. If you preface what you're saying with "at the risk of sounding whatever", that's your red flag that other people are going to think that you sound whatever. What inevitably follows "I don't mean to sound racist, but..."?
Yep, you sure do. Not everybody has a father in their life (for a variety of reasons, none of which require you to pass judgment on), and not every mother has the luxury of delegating the responsibility of teaching human decency to their children. I'm pretty sure you don't need a penis to teach someone how to behave like a gentleman. Are girls raised by their fathers doomed to a lifetime of un-ladylike behavior (whatever TF that means...)?Okay so I'm at risk of sounding extremely chauvinistic here, but so many women I know on MFP and in real life always feel obligated to show their sons the importance of being a gentleman. In my opinion, this is the father's responsibility to show them how to be a man.
Don't be so haste to say that I'm passing judgement. I do correct myself in that I should have noted that "if there is a father figure" in the son's life.
I didn't really feel the need to write an entire essay on listing all the other factors...just a quick forum post. We're being nice here people : )
You are correct. I should have done a better job with my wording.
Also Gato, at the risk of sounding correct, I think the examples above of where there is an absent father are true, but also that even in a two parent home the mother can help teach by showing that she expects her boy to do certain things while the father is working and also by allowing the husband to do certain things for her in front of the child so teaching through modeling which is I think what you might have meant. Both teachings work in concert to develop a responsible child. IMO. 0 -
Last night my wife travelled about 80 miles to help my daughter pack up her apartment in preparation for moving. As my wife was walking up the walkway to the apartment building, a College student (male) walked ahead of her, opened the door, entered, and let it shut on my wife. My wife had a vacuum cleaner in one hand and a carpet cleaner in the other.
I know the kid didn't do anything wrong, but, when my wife called last night and told me, it plssed me off.
What happened to manners? Opening doors for other people? Giving up your seat to a woman or an older person? Standing when a woman enters the room?
These are just common courtesies that we were raised to practice. Does showing courtesy and/or deference make me a Chauvinist?
One thing that I have noticed over tha last few years is that when I open a door for someone and let them enter ahead of me, they are surprised. Is it that uncommon now?
I'm a little dissappointed. People are so self-involved. Half the younger people I see these days have ear buds in and are looking down at their cell phone, texting. They don't even know what is going on around them. But, I guess, I prefer to thing that they are unaware than intentionally rude.
It's not these college kids' fault that they are being oblivious to common courtesy. It's their parents' fault for not raising better citizens. I have a 12 and 16 year old, they've been taught to hold doors open, to say please and thank you, to make eye contact, to shake a hand with a firm grip, and to generally do to others as they'd have done unto them.
I feel that with each passing generation, we lose a little bit more of our humanity.
I couldn't agree more! I love how you are raising your boys and I take pride in rearing my children the same way.0 -
When I was 9 months pregnant I was leaving a store with my arms full of my purchases. An elderly couple was entering, so I stepped back as the man held the door for his wife to walk through. He made eye contact with me, nodded at me, and let the door close in my face. Discourteous behavior doesn't exclusively belong to the younger generation.0
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uh oh, generalizations, maybe i should have left my post as it was?Last night my wife travelled about 80 miles to help my daughter pack up her apartment in preparation for moving. As my wife was walking up the walkway to the apartment building, a College student (male) walked ahead of her, opened the door, entered, and let it shut on my wife. My wife had a vacuum cleaner in one hand and a carpet cleaner in the other.
I know the kid didn't do anything wrong, but, when my wife called last night and told me, it plssed me off.
What happened to manners? Opening doors for other people? Giving up your seat to a woman or an older person? Standing when a woman enters the room?
These are just common courtesies that we were raised to practice. Does showing courtesy and/or deference make me a Chauvinist?
One thing that I have noticed over tha last few years is that when I open a door for someone and let them enter ahead of me, they are surprised. Is it that uncommon now?
I'm a little dissappointed. People are so self-involved. Half the younger people I see these days have ear buds in and are looking down at their cell phone, texting. They don't even know what is going on around them. But, I guess, I prefer to thing that they are unaware than intentionally rude.
It's not these college kids' fault that they are being oblivious to common courtesy. It's their parents' fault for not raising better citizens. I have a 12 and 16 year old, they've been taught to hold doors open, to say please and thank you, to make eye contact, to shake a hand with a firm grip, and to generally do to others as they'd have done unto them.
I feel that with each passing generation, we lose a little bit more of our humanity.
I couldn't agree more! I love how you are raising your boys and I take pride in rearing my children the same way.0 -
No, no, no! Please allow me to correct the misunderstanding. I was talking about two different things! I'm so sorry! I meant it was awful for people to berate someone when that person has in fact shown them courtesy and held the door for them.
Oh my word! You must go through life positively filled with disappointment! I think manners are something you're supposed to practice without expecting them in return. That way you can be pleasantly surprised when you encounter them.I fully expect someone to hold a door for me - particularly a man.
I am, however, appalled at the idea that someone would berate someone else for having the audacity to hold the door for them. /shudder
I'm not disappointed. I believe in teh courtesy of human beings. I am polite and well mannered regardless of those around me. But thank you for believing I shuold be filled with disappointment. I will definitely try to be more pessimistic going forward and less believing in random kindness and manners from other people.
I did not "berate" anyone. I called him out teasingly around his friends who i also talk with/joke with frequently. I would hardly call that berating.
Sorry I did not word my response correctly
I think it's wonderful that you show courtesy, and I'm not trying to get you to be pessimistic. I think what I was saying says more about my mindset and upbringing, which admittedly was very negative and pessimistic. If I went around expecting good manners from people, I would have a stroke from getting mad when they failed to display them.
This thread is so refreshing. I came in here to get my hate on, and I can't even feel anything but niceness at how constructive and appropriate everyone's being. I'm serious.0 -
Typical woman.
; )
I am anything but that. Ask anyone who knows me. 0
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