Supporting MFP friends on very low calorie diets
golfmonk
Posts: 119 Member
I have this dilemma and I am curious on how the general MFP population would deal with this issue (of course, this is assuming that one would be using their MFP friends list for motitivation and support).
I have noticed this trend that a decent amount of my MFP friends are eating nowhere the amount of calories they should be like logging an insane amount of exercise calories and netting something like 400 calories for the day. There was even one friend that had a daily calorie goal of 600 calories. I mean, is this *even* possible to do when setting up a MFP account? I always assumed that there was a 1200 daily calorie cap on MFP but I guess not since I peaked at her diary and saw this with my very own eyes.
I suppose the purpose of MFP friends list is to be able to support and motivate one another, but I have a problem of supporting people that are either a) not exercising and logging under 1000 calories or b) eating over 1200 calories, but netting well under 1000. I just can't bring myself to support such behavior and was wondering what other people have done (or would do) under these circumstances. Do you ignore it? Remove them from your friends list? Preach to them that what they are doing is not a viable long term solution?
Anyways, I will look forward to any comments that will come my way (good or bad) and good luck to all on their weight loss journey and may you get to your desired goal!
P.S. I am not referring to anyone that is occasionally doing this (like if they are sick and/or not hungry that day). I am talking about friends that are doing this consistently everyday.
I have noticed this trend that a decent amount of my MFP friends are eating nowhere the amount of calories they should be like logging an insane amount of exercise calories and netting something like 400 calories for the day. There was even one friend that had a daily calorie goal of 600 calories. I mean, is this *even* possible to do when setting up a MFP account? I always assumed that there was a 1200 daily calorie cap on MFP but I guess not since I peaked at her diary and saw this with my very own eyes.
I suppose the purpose of MFP friends list is to be able to support and motivate one another, but I have a problem of supporting people that are either a) not exercising and logging under 1000 calories or b) eating over 1200 calories, but netting well under 1000. I just can't bring myself to support such behavior and was wondering what other people have done (or would do) under these circumstances. Do you ignore it? Remove them from your friends list? Preach to them that what they are doing is not a viable long term solution?
Anyways, I will look forward to any comments that will come my way (good or bad) and good luck to all on their weight loss journey and may you get to your desired goal!
P.S. I am not referring to anyone that is occasionally doing this (like if they are sick and/or not hungry that day). I am talking about friends that are doing this consistently everyday.
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I question them on it. Because occassionally there's a good reason (gastric bypass would fall into that category).
If there's no good reason, and they aren't open to seeing some logic, I remove them from my friends list, because I'm not going to support someone who is pro-ana0 -
I get where you are coming from on this. Is it possible they have forgot to add in other items they ate? Or is the goal posted that they will not eat no more than that low Calorie amount? It is definitely a concern because they are practically starving themselves and it could hurt them. If you say something to them be sure to show you are here to support them but you are really concerned about their low calorie intake.0
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I question them on it. Because occassionally there's a good reason (gastric bypass would fall into that category).
If there's no good reason, and they aren't open to seeing some logic, I remove them from my friends list, because I'm not going to suppose someone who is pro-ana
I agree as well.0 -
I question them on it. Because occassionally there's a good reason (gastric bypass would fall into that category).
If there's no good reason, and they aren't open to seeing some logic, I remove them from my friends list, because I'm not going to suppose someone who is pro-ana
There are a few friends that explained their situation and I am good with that and will support them. My experience is that if you flag their behavior, explain to them why it is a bad idea and they *still* do it (the in one ear and out the other effect), then I am at a point where I am not sure what do next. I cannot internally support that type of destructive behavior.
Thank you all for the feedback so far. I am weighing in on the opinions I get before deciding my next move.0 -
I deleted someone a while back (previous account), because she was netting like 400 calories a day. She blamed it on surgery, but her diary was like that every day. People expressed concern, but she didn't care. I deleted her. I am not going to give positive comments to someone who is damaging themselves0
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I struggle with this too. For some people I use the silence is golden when it comes to low calorie diets ( day after day). I will support elsewhere but it's hard. I am attached to some of these 1200 calorie people and I just can't give up. I saw this with my brother, he dropped a lot of weight this year with MFP, but he most likely did it on too few calories, because for sure he lost a lot of muscle mass. I will see him at Christmas and I am hoping he is looking less manorexic, he is 6'4" and most likely 185.
Slow and sure wins the race on so many levels, but it's difficult to convince everyone that losing 2 or more pounds a week isn't such a good thing. LOL says me that only ate 1400 calories today and lost 2.5 pounds this week - both events are NOT typical of my time here.0 -
It's nice the hear that genuinely care about people and wants what's best for them. All you can really do is keep encouraging them to be healthy...maybe encourage them to throw in an apple or an extra salad for the day. If you see them consistently way too far under then don't comment....only comment on a healthy day....that may help make something click for them if they see their being praised when they eat a bit more.0
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I recently had this situation where an already very tiny young person was effectively starving themselves. I tried to provide some concrete and informed information, links etc, as did others, after a while I noticed we were giving this person consistent messages and while they responded really politely, they continued with the behaviour. I also noticed another group around this person who were similarly tiny and with similar eating habits - it was starting to look like a peer group of young people with significant Eating Disorders and they were pushing each other along, a lot of misinformation etc. I stayed with it as long as I could and then sadly had to let it go - the support I tried to provide has not getting traction and the behaviours were really established - felt that with my limited time, it was better to provide support that would add value to anther's journey than blow hot air.0
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This topic is useful for me. I am too new at this to express an opinion on what is right or wrong. However I think I would value somone's input if they thought I needed help.
Old habits die hard and this week, just for instance I lost very little. My all or nothing thinking wants me to sabotage or get 'tough' with myself.
So a voice of sanity is mighty helpful.
I have learnt so much recently from people's guidance on these forums. The best are information backed up with references to further reading, they have really helped.0 -
I've been sick for the last week, so have forgotten to log... it's possible they're forgetting to log their stuff. 600 calories is way too low! I also thought MFP had a cap; at least they do on the app.
Maybe breach it first with a non-direct comment first. For instance, if they're missing a log for a meal (breakfast, lunch, dinner), be like "Oops! Don't forget to log this one!" If they mention that they're not eating, then you can be more direct.
For the people that are exercising crazy amounts, maybe ask them specifics on their exercise (I don't really know who has the time to burn 500+ calories a day)... could be they're logging it wrong.... don't know.
It's a difficult situation... one I never realized was going on until I ventured to the forum element of MFP.0 -
I have a similar issue - but with people who eat 1000 cals and log an hour of jogging in at one calorie... I know it is so it doesn't make their net APPEAR low, but the reality is that they are netting 400 cals. It is ridiculous. I don't even question them anymore, I just delete them from my FL.0
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i dont keep these people on my friend's list. sorry but some BS i just can't be a witness to and people in first world countries willfully starving themselves is one.0
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I am bad for closing my diary and then eating more and not logging it. Or making a plan for the day to eat 1500 cals and then forgetting that I exercised 500 cals off.
Some people don't eat their exercise calories back, so even though they only net 600, they may still be eating upwards of 1200.0 -
It's nice the hear that genuinely care about people and wants what's best for them. All you can really do is keep encouraging them to be healthy...maybe encourage them to throw in an apple or an extra salad for the day. If you see them consistently way too far under then don't comment....only comment on a healthy day....that may help make something click for them if they see their being praised when they eat a bit more.
The thing is, I *really* want people to reach their goals in a healthy manner; nothing on MFP would make me happier. And I know what they are going through because 3 years ago, I did *exactly* the same thing that I am complaining about now!
I was eating just one meal a day, was lifting weights three times a week, did long walks (8-12 miles) on the days I was not lifting and walking two plus rounds of golf a week carrying my golf bag and with all that I was creating a very low net calorie on a daily basis. I lost 50 pounds, but I know I lost a lot of muscle too and after I stopped doing this insane diet, I packed on 30 pounds and now I am here on MFP a different (and hopefully enlightened) person.
I know that these message boards get some flack from the newbies, but I *now* know that the experienced voices of MFP *know* what they are talking about and I learned a lot here (and from other web sites) about losing weight in a healthy and sustainable way.
So, I *do* know how some of my low-calorie friends are thinking. VLCD will result is short term weight loss, but long term health issues. So, I try, I really do, to pass on this knowledge/experience, but I really feel I am going "against the tide" as it were.
Anyways, thank you all for the opinions and as I said before, I hope that everyone gets to their goal weight in a safe and healthy manner!0 -
I am guilty of what you have mention so I will say this to defend myself.
# 1. By logging in everything I put in mouth- I feel responsible for every calorie in take therefore I am more strict about portion control and make wiser decisions to eat this and not that.
#2. Although I am usually at 800-1100 calories a day, I find that I simply don't get hungry if I eat certain types of food plus eating every 2 hours helps with hunger. I prepare and enter in the food the day before that way I know exactly what I will be eating for which meal/snack.
#3. Drinking more water fills me up so I tend not to think that I am hungry.
#5. GUILTY- I have developed a way of convincing myself that I am full and not hungry. Somedays when I am very busy- I often forget to eat until I start to feel dizzy. I don't eat until I feel stuffed... I push away from the table and throw away the food or save it for latter.0 -
I have a similar issue - but with people who eat 1000 cals and log an hour of jogging in at one calorie... I know it is so it doesn't make their net APPEAR low, but the reality is that they are netting 400 cals. It is ridiculous. I don't even question them anymore, I just delete them from my FL.
About the one calorie workout; one of my friends did that and I had to reply "is x amount of minutes of exercise really 1 calorie?" Of course, I got no response back on that, just shrugged my shoulders and moved on.0 -
I think it is nice that you are concerned. I deleted one who has set her daily goal at 950 (yes, apparently you can override the MFP 1200 cal cap). She was evasive (denied setting it that way, refused to consider alternatives, etc.), and it was sucking my energy with frustration. I find that most people have it ingrained that you have to starve or feel hungry and suffer to lose weight. I have approached some of my friends, if I am concerned about what I am seeing in their diary (through PM). It really can be a mindset that is difficult to overcome. There is so much misinformation out there, body shaming, and an all-or-nothing mentality (this is mine) that if you go VLCD you will lose faster.
Basically, if you find it is sucking your energy, or frustrating you... delete them. You are here for your own journey, and adding stress is not helpful.
:flowerforyou: for being a thoughtful and supportive friend0 -
People who use the TDEE method typically log their cardio exercise as 1 calorie because they want to keep track of the activity but the calorie burn is already included in their total daily energy expenditure.I have a similar issue - but with people who eat 1000 cals and log an hour of jogging in at one calorie... I know it is so it doesn't make their net APPEAR low, but the reality is that they are netting 400 cals. It is ridiculous. I don't even question them anymore, I just delete them from my FL.
About the one calorie workout; one of my friends did that and I had to reply "is x amount of minutes of exercise really 1 calorie?" Of course, I got no response back on that, just shrugged my shoulders and moved on.0 -
I believe that those following TDEE - x% will log exercise as 1 calorie, because TDEE method takes exercise into consideration. The MFP method is designed for calorie eat back.0
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I don't think he'd have that big of an issue with the 1 cal burn if the calorie goal was set to (for example) 1800. But his example is one of someone who has their cal goals set to 1000. In that case, I don't think they are following TDEE and are instead in the disordered eating/eating disorder territory.0
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I question them on it. Because occassionally there's a good reason (gastric bypass would fall into that category).
If there's no good reason, and they aren't open to seeing some logic, I remove them from my friends list, because I'm not going to suppose someone who is pro-ana
There are a few friends that explained their situation and I am good with that and will support them. My experience is that if you flag their behavior, explain to them why it is a bad idea and they *still* do it (the in one ear and out the other effect), then I am at a point where I am not sure what do next. I cannot internally support that type of destructive behavior.
Thank you all for the feedback so far. I am weighing in on the opinions I get before deciding my next move.
Sounds like your thought process on this is sound. I think the "what do next" part is, you have to take them off your FL. Perhaps a PM explaining that if at some point down the road they want to try a more reasonable approach (such as a minimum of X calories), you'll add them and do what you can to support them, but you just can't watch them try to survive on Y calories. What values you use for X and Y are probably debatable.
Good luck. It's a tough topic.0 -
People who use the TDEE method typically log their cardio exercise as 1 calorie because they want to keep track of the activity but the calorie burn is already included in their total daily energy expenditure.I have a similar issue - but with people who eat 1000 cals and log an hour of jogging in at one calorie... I know it is so it doesn't make their net APPEAR low, but the reality is that they are netting 400 cals. It is ridiculous. I don't even question them anymore, I just delete them from my FL.
About the one calorie workout; one of my friends did that and I had to reply "is x amount of minutes of exercise really 1 calorie?" Of course, I got no response back on that, just shrugged my shoulders and moved on.
Thanks to everyone for that information! I didn't think about that scenario and I stand corrected!
It was odd that this person did not correct me when I asked; so I am not sure if she was using the TDEE method or not. But again, thank you for taking the time to answer!0 -
Not sure how accurate the burned calories estimates are. Some look way too high. I see people recording pretty light exercise like slow walking pace for 30 minutes, with a burn estimate of 1000 cal. Looks really suspicious. So, when they come in under their total calorie target, with those bizarre burn estimates, I'm not sure what to think.0
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I have a similar issue - but with people who eat 1000 cals and log an hour of jogging in at one calorie... I know it is so it doesn't make their net APPEAR low, but the reality is that they are netting 400 cals. It is ridiculous. I don't even question them anymore, I just delete them from my FL.
About the one calorie workout; one of my friends did that and I had to reply "is x amount of minutes of exercise really 1 calorie?" Of course, I got no response back on that, just shrugged my shoulders and moved on.
when you are using the TDEE method your exercise is already factored into your cal goals so you cannot put the real amount of cals u burned b/c it would raise your daily allowance for the day and give you too high net cals for weight loss. Ignore that, that's happening by ppl who know what they are doing.
for the under cals ppl. if you have many ppl eating low net cals it can be what happened to me when I first started, one pro ana person led to another to another before i knew it I had decidedly anorexic girls on my list cheeringone another on and being "supportive" in their own way of their unhealthy goals. this may have happened to you. I'd raise the question with anyone willing to reply. Also looking at their friends list should reveal if they are flocking together all names like "skinny" ribs showing in pics ultra thin girls, "ana" in the usernames over and over this might be what's going on. It took a long time to delete all those girls but I had too b/c it was too emotional reading their feeds. I saw a girl die from low cals in my youth and i can't see that kind of talk without it affecting me.0 -
Not sure how accurate the burned calories estimates are. Some look way too high. I see people recording pretty light exercise like slow walking pace for 30 minutes, with a burn estimate of 1000 cal. Looks really suspicious. So, when they come in under their total calorie target, with those bizarre burn estimates, I'm not sure what to think.
Yes, I kind of have the same issues.
Is 60 minutes of heavy weight lifting the 600 calories I tend to put in for exercise? I don't own a HRM and it is my understanding from the MFP gurus that a HRM is not an accurate method of tracking exercise calories for weight lifting. So, in this instance, I will eat about 75% of those exercise calories back to allow some wiggle room since I am really just taking a WAG at the exercise expenditures.
Once I get closer to my weight goal, I might need to revisit this again if my weight loss stalls.0 -
I have a similar issue - but with people who eat 1000 cals and log an hour of jogging in at one calorie... I know it is so it doesn't make their net APPEAR low, but the reality is that they are netting 400 cals. It is ridiculous. I don't even question them anymore, I just delete them from my FL.
About the one calorie workout; one of my friends did that and I had to reply "is x amount of minutes of exercise really 1 calorie?" Of course, I got no response back on that, just shrugged my shoulders and moved on.
when you are using the TDEE method your exercise is already factored into your cal goals so you cannot put the real amount of cals u burned b/c it would raise your daily allowance for the day and give you too high net cals for weight loss. Ignore that, that's happening by ppl who know what they are doing.
for the under cals ppl. if you have many ppl eating low net cals it can be what happened to me when I first started, one pro ana person led to another to another before i knew it I had decidedly anorexic girls on my list cheeringone another on and being "supportive" in their own way of their unhealthy goals. this may have happened to you. I'd raise the question with anyone willing to reply. Also looking at their friends list should reveal if they are flocking together all names like "skinny" ribs showing in pics ultra thin girls, "ana" in the usernames over and over this might be what's going on. It took a long time to delete all those girls but I had too b/c it was too emotional reading their feeds. I saw a girl die from low cals in my youth and i can't see that kind of talk without it affecting me.
Very valid concern if you see someone doing something harmful to themselves. Have you ever reported or reached out to MFP "staff" whoever they are and let them know about the dangerous behaviour? I'd be interested to know if anyone has done this before, and if there is indeed any intervention that occurs.0 -
Once I get closer to my weight goal, I might need to revisit this again if my weight loss stalls.
That's the important part of this whole thing (IMHO). I always advise that someone uses a method...in your case, calling 60 minutes of lifting 600 calories...and do it consistently and accurately for X weeks...then evaluate progress. If it's where you want it, carry on...and if not (in either direction), adjust accordingly. (Honestly, your 60 minutes of lifting probably isn't that much of a burn, but if other factors in your approach mitigate the difference, then it really doesn't matter that you don't have the "right" number.)0 -
I have a similar issue - but with people who eat 1000 cals and log an hour of jogging in at one calorie... I know it is so it doesn't make their net APPEAR low, but the reality is that they are netting 400 cals. It is ridiculous. I don't even question them anymore, I just delete them from my FL.
About the one calorie workout; one of my friends did that and I had to reply "is x amount of minutes of exercise really 1 calorie?" Of course, I got no response back on that, just shrugged my shoulders and moved on.
when you are using the TDEE method your exercise is already factored into your cal goals so you cannot put the real amount of cals u burned b/c it would raise your daily allowance for the day and give you too high net cals for weight loss. Ignore that, that's happening by ppl who know what they are doing.
for the under cals ppl. if you have many ppl eating low net cals it can be what happened to me when I first started, one pro ana person led to another to another before i knew it I had decidedly anorexic girls on my list cheeringone another on and being "supportive" in their own way of their unhealthy goals. this may have happened to you. I'd raise the question with anyone willing to reply. Also looking at their friends list should reveal if they are flocking together all names like "skinny" ribs showing in pics ultra thin girls, "ana" in the usernames over and over this might be what's going on. It took a long time to delete all those girls but I had too b/c it was too emotional reading their feeds. I saw a girl die from low cals in my youth and i can't see that kind of talk without it affecting me.
Very valid concern if you see someone doing something harmful to themselves. Have you ever reported or reached out to MFP "staff" whoever they are and let them know about the dangerous behaviour? I'd be interested to know if anyone has done this before, and if there is indeed any intervention that occurs.
I thought of reporting the one MFP "friend" doing a 600 goal calorie a day diet. Poking around the help section, there did not seem to be any instance of reporting anyone conscientiously doing a VLCD diet.
In the end, I decided to go with both "we are all adults here" and "some people will only learn only when the time is right and nothing will change their mind until that time". I suppose this is a pessimistic view, but I really believe people will keep on doing what they are doing until they decide themselves to stop the insanity (thinking of the Albert Einstein quote: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.").0 -
Once I get closer to my weight goal, I might need to revisit this again if my weight loss stalls.
That's the important part of this whole thing (IMHO). I always advise that someone uses a method...in your case, calling 60 minutes of lifting 600 calories...and do it consistently and accurately for X weeks...then evaluate progress. If it's where you want it, carry on...and if not (in either direction), adjust accordingly. (Honestly, your 60 minutes of lifting probably isn't that much of a burn, but if other factors in your approach mitigate the difference, then it really doesn't matter that you don't have the "right" number.)
Yes! In total agreement !
And not to go too far off tangent, the same can be said for measuring/recording food. And I not talking about the WAGs on the calories on eating restaurant food (an important part of the food equation for sure), but the more subtle examples like taking the calorie information on a slice of bread from the supermarket as factual when in reality there probably a 20% error on calories per slice. If I were to stall, both exercise expenditures and food intake will need to be re-examined.
All fascinating stuff when you think about it!0 -
my advice would be to let them know how you feel about it and say you're not going to be supportive of them over-exercising and undereating. Then the ball's in their court. If they delete you (which they probably will if they don't accept that they have a problem), then it's not your problem any more. If they accept that what they're doing is wrong, then you're in a position to possibly influence them.0
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