"A calorie is a calorie" violates the second law of...

Classic misdirection - attention-whoring headline says one thing, content says the exact opposite thing.

Been too many rounds on this - I just don't a give a **** anymore - people are going to believe what they want to believe regardless.

Outside of semantics about thermodynamics, the main argument in the paper seems to be that carbs have a lower thermic effect, which I don't think anyone disputes.

Yes.... but don't you get it? This PROVES calories in calories out is flawed... it's not 100%.

So there is no point counting calories!!! Total waste of time.

















Psst.... no I don't actually believe a word of that.... so what was the point of this and every other thread like it??? Oh no point? Got it. Thanks.

The no-carb jerks are jerks, period.

Go to Paris, France. What is one of the staples of the French diet? BAGUETTES! In fact, it's quite normal to have a MORNING BUN, for lunch French cheese and a baguette and baguette with your dinner. And they are RAIL THIN!

Same with ITALY - RAIL THIN, PASTA PASTA PASTA & bread! Amazing isn't it?

And Germany - THIN, RAIL THIN, loads of potatoes, bread in that diet too. Get out of your paleo/no-carb/atkins world and actually SEE the world, thin people are everywhere, thin people who eat BREAD are everywhere.

The no-carb jerks are jerks, period.

Go to Paris, France. What is one of the staples of the French diet? BAGUETTES! In fact, it's quite normal to have a MORNING BUN, for lunch French cheese and a baguette and baguette with your dinner. And they are RAIL THIN!

Same with ITALY - RAIL THIN, PASTA PASTA PASTA & bread! Amazing isn't it?

And Germany - THIN, RAIL THIN, loads of potatoes, bread in that diet too. Get out of your paleo/no-carb/atkins world and actually SEE the world, thin people are everywhere, thin people who eat BREAD are everywhere.

What are you doing, going around and spamming all the threads with this rant?

Just very passionate about bread...

"A calorie is a calorie" violates the second law of thermodynamics"

I'm not gonna comment any more on this here as one will get flamed but I thought this was an interesting piece for those who may not think that its flatly 'a calorie is a calorie'.

http://www.nutritionj.com/content/3/1/9

LOL

Here's a section of the conclusions of the paper. Let's see who has a clue what this paper is really about. Quite nice seeing people accidentally backing their opponent's arguments. It shows who's actually reading the literature.

"The seriousness of the obesity epidemic suggests that we attack it with all the means at our disposal. Metabolic advantage with low carbohydrate diets is well established in the literature. It does not always occur but the important point is that it can occur. To ignore its possibilities and to not investigate the precise conditions under which it appears would be cutting ourselves off from potential benefit. The extent to which metabolic advantage will have significant impact in treating obesity is unknown and it is widely said in studies of low carbohydrate diets that "more work needs to be done." However, if the misconception is perpetuated that there is a violation of physical laws, that work will not be done, and if done, will go unpublished due to editorial resistance. Attacking the obesity epidemic will involve giving up many old ideas that have not been productive. "

"A calorie is a calorie" violates the second law of thermodynamics"

I'm not gonna comment any more on this here as one will get flamed but I thought this was an interesting piece for those who may not think that its flatly 'a calorie is a calorie'.

http://www.nutritionj.com/content/3/1/9

LOL

Here's a section of the conclusions of the paper. Let's see who has a clue what this paper is really about. Quite nice seeing people accidentally backing their opponent's arguments. It shows who's actually reading the literature.

"The seriousness of the obesity epidemic suggests that we attack it with all the means at our disposal. Metabolic advantage with low carbohydrate diets is well established in the literature. It does not always occur but the important point is that it can occur. To ignore its possibilities and to not investigate the precise conditions under which it appears would be cutting ourselves off from potential benefit. The extent to which metabolic advantage will have significant impact in treating obesity is unknown and it is widely said in studies of low carbohydrate diets that "more work needs to be done." However, if the misconception is perpetuated that there is a violation of physical laws, that work will not be done, and if done, will go unpublished due to editorial resistance. Attacking the obesity epidemic will involve giving up many old ideas that have not been productive. "

I'm not sure what you trying to say here, but I did see in another thread that you are getting quite 'passionate' about HFLC'ing. So I am assuming you are taking a jab at my response? There was nothing new under the sun that was covered in that article that has not already been covered. The final paragraph is the author's opinion on the matter, which he is quite welcome to, as you are are to yours. It does not matter TO HIM (or to you I guess) that there was very little in the actual article that supported his opinion.

Personally, I find the recent work on the gut microbiome differences between obese and never obese people to be far more compelling.

"A calorie is a calorie" violates the second law of thermodynamics"

I'm not gonna comment any more on this here as one will get flamed but I thought this was an interesting piece for those who may not think that its flatly 'a calorie is a calorie'.

http://www.nutritionj.com/content/3/1/9

LOL

Here's a section of the conclusions of the paper. Let's see who has a clue what this paper is really about. Quite nice seeing people accidentally backing their opponent's arguments. It shows who's actually reading the literature.

"The seriousness of the obesity epidemic suggests that we attack it with all the means at our disposal. Metabolic advantage with low carbohydrate diets is well established in the literature. It does not always occur but the important point is that it can occur. To ignore its possibilities and to not investigate the precise conditions under which it appears would be cutting ourselves off from potential benefit. The extent to which metabolic advantage will have significant impact in treating obesity is unknown and it is widely said in studies of low carbohydrate diets that "more work needs to be done." However, if the misconception is perpetuated that there is a violation of physical laws, that work will not be done, and if done, will go unpublished due to editorial resistance. Attacking the obesity epidemic will involve giving up many old ideas that have not been productive. "

I'm not sure what you trying to say here, but I did see in another thread that you are getting quite 'passionate' about HFLC'ing. So I am assuming you are taking a jab at my response? There was nothing new under the sun that was covered in that article that has not already been covered. The final paragraph is the author's opinion on the matter, which he is quite welcome to, as you are are to yours. It does not matter TO HIM (or to you I guess) that there was very little in the actual article that supported his opinion.

Personally, I find the recent work on the gut microbiome differences between obese and never obese people to be far more compelling.

Bloom, I was not taking a jab at your response. In fact I found it on point.

"A calorie is a calorie" violates the second law of thermodynamics"

I'm not gonna comment any more on this here as one will get flamed but I thought this was an interesting piece for those who may not think that its flatly 'a calorie is a calorie'.

http://www.nutritionj.com/content/3/1/9

LOL

Here's a section of the conclusions of the paper. Let's see who has a clue what this paper is really about. Quite nice seeing people accidentally backing their opponent's arguments. It shows who's actually reading the literature.

"The seriousness of the obesity epidemic suggests that we attack it with all the means at our disposal. Metabolic advantage with low carbohydrate diets is well established in the literature. It does not always occur but the important point is that it can occur. To ignore its possibilities and to not investigate the precise conditions under which it appears would be cutting ourselves off from potential benefit. The extent to which metabolic advantage will have significant impact in treating obesity is unknown and it is widely said in studies of low carbohydrate diets that "more work needs to be done." However, if the misconception is perpetuated that there is a violation of physical laws, that work will not be done, and if done, will go unpublished due to editorial resistance. Attacking the obesity epidemic will involve giving up many old ideas that have not been productive. "

I'm not sure what you trying to say here, but I did see in another thread that you are getting quite 'passionate' about HFLC'ing. So I am assuming you are taking a jab at my response? There was nothing new under the sun that was covered in that article that has not already been covered. The final paragraph is the author's opinion on the matter, which he is quite welcome to, as you are are to yours. It does not matter TO HIM (or to you I guess) that there was very little in the actual article that supported his opinion.

Personally, I find the recent work on the gut microbiome differences between obese and never obese people to be far more compelling.

Bloom, I was not taking a jab at your response. In fact I found it on point.

Oh! Never mind then. :blushing:

A body builder and a master physicist. Move over, Carnot.

Different D-I-C-K Feynman. That'n's tits up already.

Edit- ohforserious?! It's his frelling *NAME*!

The no-carb jerks are jerks, period.

Go to Paris, France. What is one of the staples of the French diet? BAGUETTES! In fact, it's quite normal to have a MORNING BUN, for lunch French cheese and a baguette and baguette with your dinner. And they are RAIL THIN!

Same with ITALY - RAIL THIN, PASTA PASTA PASTA & bread! Amazing isn't it?

And Germany - THIN, RAIL THIN, loads of potatoes, bread in that diet too. Get out of your paleo/no-carb/atkins world and actually SEE the world, thin people are everywhere, thin people who eat BREAD are everywhere.

What are you doing, going around and spamming all the threads with this rant?

No i agree. That makes sense.

I love carbs me. I have to say though, these thin people in the Mediterranean countries just aren't eating excess calories, that's why they aren't overweight. Btw thin French people don't eat bread and baguettes all day, but I know plenty of overweight ones that do.

Protein has a thermodynamic effect. It takes energy to digest it. I've read that it could be up to 25%, ie 1 of the 4 calories per g. I don't eat it because of that though, and I still count it the same. Those extra calories always sneak in somehow so hopefully my 500 calories of protein per day and the energy taken to digest it counteracts those little sneakies.

The no-carb jerks are jerks, period.

Go to Paris, France. What is one of the staples of the French diet? BAGUETTES! In fact, it's quite normal to have a MORNING BUN, for lunch French cheese and a baguette and baguette with your dinner. And they are RAIL THIN!

Same with ITALY - RAIL THIN, PASTA PASTA PASTA & bread! Amazing isn't it?

And Germany - THIN, RAIL THIN, loads of potatoes, bread in that diet too. Get out of your paleo/no-carb/atkins world and actually SEE the world, thin people are everywhere, thin people who eat BREAD are everywhere.

Being European I can tell you I disagree.

There are a LOT of overweight Germans. a lot.
Italians are very lively and I suspect their constant fidgeting and exaggerated hand gestures have something to do with their energy output. Also young people don't seem to be as overweight but it catches up when they get older.
Can't say that French are generally super lean, but also they do not eat as many baguettes as you'd think. They take time with their food but don't eat as much in one sitting.

It's all about portion control.

I think the reason some americans (not saying you are american) find Europeans to be thin is because there is more obesity in the US, but I would suggest that is because of out of control portion sizes there. I know when I went I bought a meal in a restaurant, I needed a doggy bag on most occasions and had the leftovers for the next meal.

Edited to say I am not defending a low carb diet. I myself choose to eat about 35% calories from carbs, mainly mecause I love meat and protein and fat keep me better satiated.

The no-carb jerks are jerks, period.

Go to Paris, France. What is one of the staples of the French diet? BAGUETTES! In fact, it's quite normal to have a MORNING BUN, for lunch French cheese and a baguette and baguette with your dinner. And they are RAIL THIN!

Same with ITALY - RAIL THIN, PASTA PASTA PASTA & bread! Amazing isn't it?

And Germany - THIN, RAIL THIN, loads of potatoes, bread in that diet too. Get out of your paleo/no-carb/atkins world and actually SEE the world, thin people are everywhere, thin people who eat BREAD are everywhere.

Being European I can tell you I disagree.

There are a LOT of overweight Germans. a lot.
Italians are very lively and I suspect their constant fidgeting and exaggerated hand gestures have something to do with their energy output. Also young people don't seem to be as overweight but it catches up when they get older.
Can't say that French are generally super lean, but also they do not eat as many baguettes as you'd think. They take time with their food but don't eat as much in one sitting.

It's all about portion control.

I think the reason some americans (not saying you are american) find Europeans to be thin is because there is more obesity in the US, but I would suggest that is because of out of control portion sizes there. I know when I went I bought a meal in a restaurant, I needed a doggy bag on most occasions and had the leftovers for the next meal.

Edited to say I am not defending a low carb diet. I myself choose to eat about 35% calories from carbs, mainly mecause I love meat and protein and fat keep me better satiated.

I am American & I thank you for this, well to me they are rail thin. While there are occasionally a large German mostly they're thin.

Italians drink Espresso for breakfast so that could be the reason they're thin too. However, I still stand by what I'm saying, they are thin in Europe, maybe to my American eyes they are thin but they def. are thin. The UK is another thing though, but in London, yes they are pretty thin.

A decent breakdown of the paper's fallacies & missteps here: http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2012/07/a-feinman-fine-mess-of-thermodynamics.html

tl/dr summary: a calorie is still basically a calorie.

The no-carb jerks are jerks, period.

Go to Paris, France. What is one of the staples of the French diet? BAGUETTES! In fact, it's quite normal to have a MORNING BUN, for lunch French cheese and a baguette and baguette with your dinner. And they are RAIL THIN!

Same with ITALY - RAIL THIN, PASTA PASTA PASTA & bread! Amazing isn't it?

And Germany - THIN, RAIL THIN, loads of potatoes, bread in that diet too. Get out of your paleo/no-carb/atkins world and actually SEE the world, thin people are everywhere, thin people who eat BREAD are everywhere.

Sorry nothing to add to this post but had to respond to this ^^^^^

As a Brit who travels Europe a great deal I have to say this is a load of tosh! Italians over 'a certain age' are notoriously tubby and all the countries mentioned have there fair share of overweight people. Yes they may have less obsese people per capita than the UK and the USA but they are certainly not all "rail thin".

Maybe it has more to do with their healthy lifesytle? Skiing in France at Christmas plenty of French pensioners were out there on the slopes too with their whole family. Older people in the UK seem to think they are too old to be active in my experience, an tuck themselves away with a jigsaw and a horlicks :laugh:

Well, I haven't been to Greece nor Spain & most of the Med. countries, but I do go frequently to the ones I mentioned. One of the reasons I believe that Parisians are rail thin is because they literally walk everywhere, like Germans do too.. Everywhere or bike, but mostly walk. And FAST. I know what you're saying about cals but the French people I know are definitely eating baguettes. Who wouldn't? It's like .60p there! (Subsidized by the French gov't btw, and I have no problem with that).

In fact, my husband & I are actually talking about moving to France, say in 2016 perhaps & buying a place. Just in the talking stages right now or possibly living there part time, with a place there & here.

Is there an alternate version of Paris that you visit? I go there often too being just 3 hours away by train. Yes there are a lot of people walking but in my experience they are mostly tourists! The Parisians love their cars and that can be seen on the packed roads. We cycled Paris last year as a weekend break and there were far fewer cyclists around than you get in London.

For the record I love bread too and a bagette and cheese for breakfast when your skiing all day or such like is fine as you are burning the cals if I did it at home where I have an office job I'd be like a whale in no time!

I'm suspecting that you have a grass is greener problem. Moving to France won't make you thin.