Sugar Sugar Sugar Sugar!

skullshank · January 2014

Oh, honey honey honey honey

FTFY

sugar is not the enemy.

remember when fat used to be the enemy?
wheat was the enemy once too.
oh and CARBS!!!! those evil evil carbs!!

everything in moderation is fine. (except meth...meth is pretty bad in any amount. an bath salts...that **** will make you eat your friends!)
unless you have a medical reason to avoid sugar you really dont have to.
it makes life a little........sweeter.

The above scientific studies i posted will support the fact that sugar is harmful and that excessive consumption is directly linked with diabetes. Case closed on that.

notice that little word i used up there?...
i'll type it again just in case you didnt: MODERATION

and lets look at the word YOU used: EXCESSIVE

MzFyreKitty · January 2014

Diabetes type 2

Type 1is thought to be autoimmune
The type 1's get really upset to be lumped in with the type 2's lol

jofjltncb6 · January 2014

Diabetes type 2

Type 1is thought to be autoimmune
The type 1's get really upset to be lumped in with the type 2's lol

That's typist!

tameko2 · January 2014

Today I learned that cotton and tobacco probably causes obesity.

Because slavery.

(seriously, I didn't read the article, but wtf does that have to do with it besides the author's vague hopes that associating a bad thing with sugar will make people think his/her arguments are more valid?)

delicious_cocktail · January 2014

Because your attitude irritates me, I'll take this one.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673600040411

Correlation causation. There is no implication or assertion that sugar-sweetened drinks were the cause of childhood obesity. There was the assertion that there was an association. Perhaps parents who feed their children more sugar-sweetened drinks don't care as much about their children's nutrition, and feed their children nothing but crap all the time. The association would still be perfectly sound, but sugar is not remotely the culprit. The same association would exist with "time parents spend cooking", which doesn't mean that minute-rice is the most evil foodstuff of all.

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=199296

This is an editorial putting a spin on a study and is specifically disclaimed as being supported by the very paper publishing it. Great source.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3623194

"The long term ingestion of a sugar-rich diet (low fat) caused severe obesity in adult rats. In a separate experiment, the habitual consumption of a fat-rich diet (40% kcal from fat) also caused severe obesity. "
Great support. It proves that eating too much makes you fat. Does not support your assertion.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/4/537.short

This doesn't support the assertion that sugar is bad although it's a fascinating piece of scholarship. At the end of the day, it asserts that overconsumption is the negative. All things become toxic as they approach infinity.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v482/n7383/full/482027a.html?WT.ec_id=NATURE-20120202

I will not even bother going past the one-sentence abstract; "Added sweeteners pose dangers to health that justify controlling them like alcohol, argue Robert H. Lustig, Laura A. Schmidt and Claire D. Brindis." That is utterly ****ing laughable.

kathrinnbauer · January 2014

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673600040411

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=199296

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3623194

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/4/537.short

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v482/n7383/full/482027a.html?WT.ec_id=NATURE-20120202

Thanks! This is what I miss in so many posts.

jofjltncb6 · January 2014

Today I learned that cotton candy and candy cigarettes probably causes obesity.

FIFY

harveler · January 2014

More info for those that seek it and are ignoring all the hyperbole:

http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2009/06/8187/obesity-and-metabolic-syndrome-driven-fructose-sugar-diet
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/20/sugar-deadly-obesity-epidemic
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/is-sugar-a-toxin-experts-debate-the-role-of-fructose-in-our-obesity-epidemic/2013/08/30/58a906d6-f952-11e2-afc1-c850c6ee5af8_story.html

jofjltncb6 · January 2014

More info for those that seek it and are ignoring all the hyperbole:

http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2009/06/8187/obesity-and-metabolic-syndrome-driven-fructose-sugar-diet
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/20/sugar-deadly-obesity-epidemic
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/is-sugar-a-toxin-experts-debate-the-role-of-fructose-in-our-obesity-epidemic/2013/08/30/58a906d6-f952-11e2-afc1-c850c6ee5af8_story.html

I hope these are examples where sugar as part of a controlled caloric diet causes the problems.

ETA: So far we have LOLstig...(fine, Lustig)...Lustig, and Lustig. I'm curious, does he have any books on the subject I could buy to learn more about his personal opinions about sugar?

Ironically, those links were supposedly for those who are "ignoring all the hyperbole".

ETAM: This particular link was probably a bad choice to support your argument: http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/is-sugar-a-toxin-experts-debate-the-role-of-fructose-in-our-obesity-epidemic/2013/08/30/58a906d6-f952-11e2-afc1-c850c6ee5af8_story.html

Everyone agrees that fructose can be metabolized that way, but not that it always is metabolized that way when people consume it in moderate amounts.

ChrisM8971 · January 2014

More info for those that seek it and are ignoring all the hyperbole:

http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2009/06/8187/obesity-and-metabolic-syndrome-driven-fructose-sugar-diet
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/20/sugar-deadly-obesity-epidemic
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/is-sugar-a-toxin-experts-debate-the-role-of-fructose-in-our-obesity-epidemic/2013/08/30/58a906d6-f952-11e2-afc1-c850c6ee5af8_story.html

You're not Robert Lustig are you?

delicious_cocktail · January 2014

More info for those that seek it and are ignoring all the hyperbole:

http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2009/06/8187/obesity-and-metabolic-syndrome-driven-fructose-sugar-diet
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/20/sugar-deadly-obesity-epidemic
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/is-sugar-a-toxin-experts-debate-the-role-of-fructose-in-our-obesity-epidemic/2013/08/30/58a906d6-f952-11e2-afc1-c850c6ee5af8_story.html

Nice response. You post studies that don't support your assertion and then when you are challenged, you just post more links. Why don't I research every piece of trash that you throw at me to continue proving that you're full of it?

I've enjoyed this chat.

Achrya · January 2014

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673600040411

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=199296

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3623194

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/4/537.short

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v482/n7383/full/482027a.html?WT.ec_id=NATURE-20120202

Thanks! This is what I miss in so many posts.

You miss people posting links that either don't prove what they claim the prove or are ridiculous?

Because I actually see a lot of that around here.

jofjltncb6 · January 2014

More info for those that seek it and are ignoring all the hyperbole:

http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2009/06/8187/obesity-and-metabolic-syndrome-driven-fructose-sugar-diet
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/20/sugar-deadly-obesity-epidemic
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/is-sugar-a-toxin-experts-debate-the-role-of-fructose-in-our-obesity-epidemic/2013/08/30/58a906d6-f952-11e2-afc1-c850c6ee5af8_story.html

Nice response. You post studies that don't support your assertion and then when you are challenged, you just post more links. Why don't I research every piece of trash that you throw at me to continue proving that you're full of it?

I've enjoyed this chat.

No doubt...and there are a seemingly infinite number of "articles" he could post too, all of them as flawed in conclusion (or in his belief that they support his conclusion) as those already provided.

fruttibiscotti · January 2014

Studies

Stanhope KL, et al. Consuming fructose-sweetened, not glucose-sweetened, beverages increases visceral adiposity and lipids and decreases insulin sensitivity in overweight/obese humans. Journal of Clinical Investigation, 2009.

Stanhope KL, et al. Adverse metabolic effects of dietary fructose: results from the recent epidemiological, clinical, and mechanistic studies. Current Opinion in Lipidology, 2013.

Ludwig DS, et al. Relation between consumption of sugar-sweetened drinks and childhood obesity: a prospective, observational analysis. The Lancet, 2001.

Schulze MB, et al. Sugar-Sweetened Beverages, Weight Gain, and Incidence of Type 2 Diabetes in Young and Middle-Aged Women. Journal of the American Medical Association, 2004.

Bostick RM, et al. Sweetened beverage consumption and risk of coronary heart disease in women. Cancer Causes & Control, 1994.

Fung TT, et al. Sugar, meat, and fat intake, and non-dietary risk factors for colon cancer incidence in Iowa women. The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 2009.

delicious_cocktail · January 2014

Is there some new game going around where we post a list of studies and expect other people to develop our arguments for us? WTF?

delicious_cocktail · January 2014

Studies

Stanhope KL, et al. Consuming fructose-sweetened, not glucose-sweetened, beverages increases visceral adiposity and lipids and decreases insulin sensitivity in overweight/obese humans. Journal of Clinical Investigation, 2009.

Stanhope KL, et al. Adverse metabolic effects of dietary fructose: results from the recent epidemiological, clinical, and mechanistic studies. Current Opinion in Lipidology, 2013.

Ludwig DS, et al. Relation between consumption of sugar-sweetened drinks and childhood obesity: a prospective, observational analysis. The Lancet, 2001.

Schulze MB, et al. Sugar-Sweetened Beverages, Weight Gain, and Incidence of Type 2 Diabetes in Young and Middle-Aged Women. Journal of the American Medical Association, 2004.

Bostick RM, et al. Sweetened beverage consumption and risk of coronary heart disease in women. Cancer Causes & Control, 1994.

Fung TT, et al. Sugar, meat, and fat intake, and non-dietary risk factors for colon cancer incidence in Iowa women. The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 2009.

Hi! Since our other friend wandered off, can you please tell me what your core assertion is and how any specific one of these studies supports it?

jofjltncb6 · January 2014

Is there some new game going around where we post a list of studies and expect other people to develop our arguments for us? WTF?

I guess this works on some people.

Me? I immediately assume that the cites are misinterpreted or irrelevant...otherwise, they would feel more strongly about their position to take the time to type a few words about it.

I recognize a few of the most recently posted cites...(the ones without links making it even more challenging)...as being irrelevant to consumption in moderation, like say, for example, A DIET W/ MEASURED CALORIES SUCH AS YOU WOULD FIND ON A SITE SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO TRACK CALORIES.

*ahem*

skullshank · January 2014

stumbled on this little tidbit on the scientific american blog:

"In a small but intriguing study, 17 adults in South Africa ate primarily fruit—about 20 servings with approximately 200 grams of total fructose each day—for 24 weeks and did not gain weight, develop high blood pressure or imbalance their insulin and lipid levels."

granted, the study is 40-something years old....

but isn't 200gr quite a bit?
personally, i shoot for ~40gr/day

here's all the sciency stuff that's over my head: http://archive.samj.org.za/1971 VOL XLV Jan-Jun/Articles/03 March/1.3 SOME BIOCHEMICAL EFFECTS OF A MAINLY FRUIT DIET IN MAN, B.J.Meyer, .E.J.F. de Bruin, D.G. du .pdf

RhonndaJ · January 2014

I have started to think that while sugar is not a bad thing, the reality that sugar exacerbates cravings in a lot of people exists. So, more sugar in the diet, more cravings, more eating. Vicious cycle.

No, no sources, nothing more than my babbling brain.

Good thing we're on a calorie counting website and can make food choices based on daily goals.

*puts more sugar into tea*

Which is why I don't really understand some of these threads, but they're interesting and/or entertaining to read at times and occasionally comment on.

~uses sugar, splenda as I feel like it~

harveler · January 2014

Is there some new game going around where we post a list of studies and expect other people to develop our arguments for us? WTF?

Yes, you win when you post evidence supporing your claim. So far you and the others "arguing" against the overwhelming evidence of the link between sugar and obesity have failed to cite a single scrap of proof to support their claims (name calling, dissecting legitimate studies with assumptions, semantic slanting, and posting jokes and GIFs don't cut it).

jeffd247 · January 2014

How can anyone argue with some dude in an Amish hat with an angry face, and another dude whose avatar is just a picture of his junk?

QuietBloom · January 2014

Looks like this needs to be posted again:

QuietBloom · January 2014

Completely irrelevant as we are specifically discussing sugar. Stay with me here.

It will be much easier to stay with you if you will use the "quote" link instead of "reply".

Also, for the record, I disagree with most of your conclusions in this thread so far...

...I'm just not arsed enough to rebut each of your bogus points. Fortunately, for everyone involved, I'm sure others will be along shortly to do just that.

i will not dignify anymore semantic slants with response...

PetulantOne · January 2014

*sigh*

When will moderation become the next fad?

Achrya · January 2014

How can anyone argue with some dude in an Amish hat with an angry face, and another dude whose avatar is just a picture of his junk?

Angry face? Hmm. IDK. Doesn't look angry to me.

MyChocolateDiet · January 2014

So, I was sitting on the couch with my mother last night. She is a huge proponent of eating healthy and exercise, and she knows how many problems I've had with my weight loss. She tossed an issue of National Geographic into my lap with the cover being a yummy looking cupcake with pink frosting and she told me to read it.

"Sugar, A Not so Sweet Story" was the title. I chuckled. I began to read. I figured it would just rehash whatever stuff I'd heard before --- carbs are the enemy, pop is bad, America is fat, et al. I was soon to be proven dreadfully wrong. The article, which is quite a good read (I will contain a link in this post to it on the NG website), details the problems with sugar in today's diet --- everything from added sugar, corn syrup, sucralose, and all of those other sugar chemicals. It tells of how diabetes and other health problems are arising --- due to an excessively high amount of sugar in the food we eat. It even discusses how the slave trade began, because of a demand for sugar. Most doctors are********************** now ***********************agreeing that sugar, not fat, is the main reason for weight gain, diabetes, and a host of cardiovascular problems. It is a food for thought story. Please read it --- it's a very good article

I figured to post in this thread since it is directly related to food and eating.

ENJOY!

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/08/sugar/cohen-text

In the past they were agreeing it was fat. In the future they will be agreeing it's something else. These demon foods that are a normal part of our diet get about a decades worth of bad press and then it's onto the next food villain. I guess it's sugar's turn right now. Wonder what it'll be next? Protein or veggies. It has to be a mainstay. I noticed that. It's always something we have eaten for centuries, like bread, or fats, or in this case sugar. Maybe water will be next, or wine, IDK.

delicious_cocktail · January 2014

Is there some new game going around where we post a list of studies and expect other people to develop our arguments for us? WTF?

Yes, you win when you post evidence supporing your claim. So far you and the others "arguing" against the overwhelming evidence of the link between sugar and obesity have failed to cite a single scrap of proof to support their claims (name calling, dissecting legitimate studies with assumptions, semantic slanting, and posting jokes and GIFs don't cut it).

European Association for the Study of Obesity (2009, May 8). Increased Food Intake Alone Explains Rise In Obesity In United States

This means I win, right?

QuietBloom · January 2014

Is there some new game going around where we post a list of studies and expect other people to develop our arguments for us? WTF?

Yes, you win when you post evidence supporing your claim. So far you and the others "arguing" against the overwhelming evidence of the link between sugar and obesity have failed to cite a single scrap of proof to support their claims (name calling, dissecting legitimate studies with assumptions, semantic slanting, and posting jokes and GIFs don't cut it).

You are the one who is making the claim that sugar is the cause for the obesity epidemic. The burden of proof is upon you.

LiftAllThePizzas · January 2014

In to find out how eating 10,000 calories of fat and protein a day will prevent diabetes.

Tigg_er · January 2014

How can anyone argue with some dude in an Amish hat with an angry face, and another dude whose avatar is just a picture of his junk?

Now that cracked me up :laugh:

Sugar Sugar Sugar Sugar!

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