Advice Please on Alcohol
Replies
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Wait do you mean lose or loose?0
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I have a couple of glasses of wine most nights, hasn't stopped me losing, I just keep within my calorie goal and I lose every week. :drinker:0
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Info I was sent before Christmas from my Pilates instructor, apparently from international fitness presenter Rachel Holmes, who runs Kick Start Fat Loss, its some interesting facts about alcohol and its affects on the body.
Today we are examining the effects of alcohol on the body and how you can still enjoy your favourite tipple from time to time without it taking permanent residence on your hard earned abs and 6 pack.
Let's quickly review how nutrients are stored and burned after food.
1. Carbs and protein suppress fat oxidation via an elevation in insulin. However, these macronutrients do not contribute to fat synthesis in any meaningful way by themselves.
2. Since fat oxidation is suppressed, dietary fat is stored in fat cells.
3. As the hours go by and insulin drops, fat is released from fat cells. Fat storage is an ongoing process and fatty acids are constantly entering and exiting fat cells throughout the day. Net gain or loss is more or less dictated by calorie input and output.
If we throw alcohol into the mix, it gets immediate priority in the substrata hierarchy: Alcohol puts the brakes on fat oxidation, but also suppresses carb and protein synthesis
This makes sense, considering that the metabolic by-product of alcohol, acetate, is toxic. Metabolising it takes precedence over everything else.
In a nutshell, if you want to maintain a lean body, avoiding alcohol is a good choice. It's not just the added calories (alcohol offers seven calories per gram compared to carbs and protein, which contain four each) but the effect alcohol has on fat burning and storage.
Alcohol affects metabolism because when you drink it your body puts all other metabolic processes on hold until it has processed the alcohol. Your body can't convert the calories from the alcohol to fat, meaning it needs to use them up, and will delay all other fat burning and energy use until the alcohol has been processed.
Drinking alcohol affects your hormones as well, increasing cortisol and modifying steroid metabolism in the liver. This results in lower androgens for both sexes. Women with higher levels of androgens and men with lower levels are equally at risk for belly fat gain, and for men, lower androgens mean less testosterone.
Not Good!
Drinking Alcohol - In a nutshell ( or a bombshell)
1. Greatly increases your daily calorie intake.
2. Massively spikes cortisol.
3. Greatly increases sugar consumption so you will crave carbs and sugar the following day.
But I'm going to a party on Saturday Night and I want to enjoy a drink?
Of course you do and why not.
Here are some strategies to help you.
1. Make the night of the party your cheat meal - and drink whatever you want!
Choose Dry White Wines - Dry being defined as less than 1.4 % residual sugar.
3. If you can choose between White and Red go for Red and the best Reds are Spanish Reds due to resveratol.
4. Triple distilled VODKA such as Grey Goose and slimline tonic is a great choice as is Gin (Bombay Saffehire)
5. Drink spritzers or follow every glass of red with a glass of water.
6. On the day of your party eat a protein rich breakfast, lunch and dinner.
7. Take your usual supplements - Greens Drinks / High Quality Fish Oils.
8. Eat a protein rich breakfast the following day to minimise carb and sugar cravings.
Avoid
BEER & CIDER
The body can't store alcohol, so it has to use it up first. All the other metabolic processes- i.e. the metabolizing of fat and glucose- have to be put on hold while the body gets rid of the alcohol.
Alcohol turns off fat burning at the cellular level.0 -
I just counted the wine calories (and measured the quantities), and managed to lose the weight just fine. Granted, there are lower calorie alternatives to wine, but I prefer wine. :drinker:0
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If I track my alcohol and fit it into my calories, I still lose weight.
Personally my struggles are:
1. still wanting to get up and work out in the morning if I have a few the night before
and
2. it's much harder to resist cravings and mindless eating after I've had a few
If I can just have some drinks without those things happening, I still lose just fine.0 -
Oh I am not opposed to people drinking....
If you want to, go ahead....
I am just giving info regarding how the body handles alcohol....
To say the body treats alcohol the same as other macros.....is not true.....
It does handle it differently.
So I was just posting info for the OP to read and be informed about......
Me personally I don't drink....but that is me.
If you want to have wine, then have it.
Just make sure you count it.
You posted an article in which the author cautions not to draw conclusions until his follow up as evidence. Care to post the follow up?
I will have to look for it....
But the basic premise of his point will not change how the body handles alcohol....
Calm down brother....
Again, I am not saying don't drink....
I am just giving the OP information, so she can make an informed choice....
You posted half an article. That's not information. That is dishonesty.
I posted a portion of the article, with a link to the full article.
I excerpted the relevant info to this post....
But the reader can click the link and read the whole article....
Man dude, take a chill pill honestly.....
I am not sure what axe you have to grind against me, but I have done nothing to you nor told anyone here you can't have your alcohol....
All I posted was info....0 -
In the same way that I am not eating sugary foods - because I know they will eventually muck up my diet, I am not drinking because I know that my weight loss will be much slower!
In the name of G*d - why would I want to jeopardise my weight loss for the sake of one or two lousy glasses of wine!
Stop drinking lousy wine.0 -
Oh I am not opposed to people drinking....
If you want to, go ahead....
I am just giving info regarding how the body handles alcohol....
To say the body treats alcohol the same as other macros.....is not true.....
It does handle it differently.
So I was just posting info for the OP to read and be informed about......
Me personally I don't drink....but that is me.
If you want to have wine, then have it.
Just make sure you count it.
You posted an article in which the author cautions not to draw conclusions until his follow up as evidence. Care to post the follow up?
I will have to look for it....
But the basic premise of his point will not change how the body handles alcohol....
Calm down brother....
Again, I am not saying don't drink....
I am just giving the OP information, so she can make an informed choice....
You posted half an article. That's not information. That is dishonesty.
I posted a portion of the article, with a link to the full article.
I excerpted the relevant info to this post....
But the reader can click the link and read the whole article....
Man dude, take a chill pill honestly.....
I am not sure what axe you have to grind against me, but I have done nothing to you nor told anyone here you can't have your alcohol....
All I posted was info....
Nothing personal at all, dude. Seriously. It's a discussion, nothing more, but one that should be complete. It's a matter of not cherry picking portions of articles. I'm certainly not advocating alcohol consumption, but let people draw conclusions based on complete information. That's really my only point.0 -
I haven't read all of the responses, but a calorie is a calorie. However, if you drink INSTEAD of eat a sandwich, you are going to be hungry. Wine also isn't going to have as much nutrients as a sandwich; ie, protein/fat, etc., so again, you are going to be hungry.
Plus, I don't know about you, but when I've had too much too drink I make bad choices, which include drinking more AND then eating anyway.
It would be better to eat half a sandwich and have 1 glass of wine. Personally, I just drink one 9% beer (ok, maybe 2), and that does more for me than 4 or 5 cheap beers.0 -
Nothing personal at all, dude. Seriously. It's a discussion, nothing more, but one that should be complete. It's a matter of not cherry picking portions of articles. I'm certainly not advocating alcohol consumption, but let people draw conclusions based on complete information. That's really my only point.
Again, I didn't cherry pick.
I posted a portion of the article, relevant to the topic at hand....
Along with the link so the reader can see the article in its entirety, as well as do their own research.....
I didn't hide anything or do anything that would make my opinion or info more valid by hiding information.....
I just ain't gonna spoon feed people everything.....
I figure they made it here on this site, then they can do some research of their own and educate themselves, and then better draw their own conclusions.
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I'm a couple of years into the lifestyle of successful weight loss and maintenance, and I never gave up drinking wine, or eating chocolate, or any of the other delicious things that make life wonderful -- I just keep an eye on my portions and only consume them when I have room in my calorie goal for these treat drinks and food along with nutritious meals.
The thing that concerns me about the original post is the idea of giving up a sandwich in favor of wine. I know people who will skip meals in order to save their calories for alcohol, and this is a VERY unhealthy mindset.0 -
i've tried to cut out booze all together. last i drink was maybe November and the scale was creeping up like 8 lbs! once i cut it out i those 8 lbs melted off. Just my experiance0
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Nothing personal at all, dude. Seriously. It's a discussion, nothing more, but one that should be complete. It's a matter of not cherry picking portions of articles. I'm certainly not advocating alcohol consumption, but let people draw conclusions based on complete information. That's really my only point.
Again, I didn't cherry pick.
I posted a portion of the article, relevant to the topic at hand....
Along with the link so the reader can see the article in its entirety, as well as do their own research.....
I didn't hide anything or do anything that would make my opinion or info more valid by hiding information.....
I just ain't gonna spoon feed people everything.....
I figure they made it here on this site, then they can do some research of their own and educate themselves, and then better draw their own conclusions.
Whatever makes you feel better0 -
I wondered the same thing when I started dieting again...found this helpful
http://www.disabled-world.com/fitness/diets/alcohol-diet.php
Funny. I checked out that link, then read another article that was included in that link that has the opposite view point. All on the same site.
http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/beer-belly-fat.shtml0 -
Oh I am not opposed to people drinking....
If you want to, go ahead....
I am just giving info regarding how the body handles alcohol....
To say the body treats alcohol the same as other macros.....is not true.....
It does handle it differently.
So I was just posting info for the OP to read and be informed about......
Me personally I don't drink....but that is me.
If you want to have wine, then have it.
Just make sure you count it.
You posted an article in which the author cautions not to draw conclusions until his follow up as evidence. Care to post the follow up?
I will have to look for it....
But the basic premise of his point will not change how the body handles alcohol....
Calm down brother....
Again, I am not saying don't drink....
I am just giving the OP information, so she can make an informed choice....
You posted half an article. That's not information. That is dishonesty.
I posted a portion of the article, with a link to the full article.
I excerpted the relevant info to this post....
But the reader can click the link and read the whole article....
Man dude, take a chill pill honestly.....
I am not sure what axe you have to grind against me, but I have done nothing to you nor told anyone here you can't have your alcohol....
All I posted was info....
Nothing personal at all, dude. Seriously. It's a discussion, nothing more, but one that should be complete. It's a matter of not cherry picking portions of articles. I'm certainly not advocating alcohol consumption, but let people draw conclusions based on complete information. That's really my only point.
tells someone he is being dishonest and then says "it's nothing personal"...0 -
Alcohol has higher DIT than the other macros except protein. Also, one or two drinks daily is heavily correlated with better overall health and lower mortality rates. If you're pouring into a glass, I'd recommend weighing it.0
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Oh I am not opposed to people drinking....
If you want to, go ahead....
I am just giving info regarding how the body handles alcohol....
To say the body treats alcohol the same as other macros.....is not true.....
It does handle it differently.
So I was just posting info for the OP to read and be informed about......
Me personally I don't drink....but that is me.
If you want to have wine, then have it.
Just make sure you count it.
You posted an article in which the author cautions not to draw conclusions until his follow up as evidence. Care to post the follow up?
I will have to look for it....
But the basic premise of his point will not change how the body handles alcohol....
Calm down brother....
Again, I am not saying don't drink....
I am just giving the OP information, so she can make an informed choice....
You posted half an article. That's not information. That is dishonesty.
I posted a portion of the article, with a link to the full article.
I excerpted the relevant info to this post....
But the reader can click the link and read the whole article....
Man dude, take a chill pill honestly.....
I am not sure what axe you have to grind against me, but I have done nothing to you nor told anyone here you can't have your alcohol....
All I posted was info....
Nothing personal at all, dude. Seriously. It's a discussion, nothing more, but one that should be complete. It's a matter of not cherry picking portions of articles. I'm certainly not advocating alcohol consumption, but let people draw conclusions based on complete information. That's really my only point.
tells someone he is being dishonest and then says "it's nothing personal"...
Intellectual dishonesty is something that happens and debate and discussions. I properly called it out. If that offends you then go learn to debate and discuss rather than throwing out ad hominems.0 -
Seriously, me too. Plus when you drink a couple I'm more likely to snack. I've tried slowing down, drink a glass of water better drinks. I've set a goal of not being hungover which has cut down on the amount I drink. Been successful for 3 weeks now.0
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My issue. When I start drinking my other calories go up. My food diary looks horrible the next day!It's no different from other calories in that sense, but may affect your ability to choose healthy foods afterwards, and may exacerbate cravings for salty and fatty foods0 -
I think most important point is alcohol is empty calories. If you look at the big picture, that will possibly lead to a less effective day after :-). Meaning, less quality sleep and less fuel for a good work out the next day.0
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I can drink a beer every now and then with dinner (I call it "sanity alcohol"). It does not appear to hurt my progress. I'd figure the same applies to wine.
I'd probably advise against drinking more than a couple beers/glasses. Besides the mystery of the alcohol micronutrient (an argument I'm staying out of), nothing good comes from getting drunk.
But I only have the instruction manual for MY body. I know guys who are in great physical shape, get loaded every weekend and still manage to stay in great physical shape. Good for them.0 -
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Bump... and it's lose, not loose!0
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Super mature discussion here guys, keep up the good work.0
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Super mature discussion here guys, keep up the good work.
^ he makes a valid point. Lets get back on track.
There's good information above if people will link through and read it. Lyle McDonald in particular is a great source.
Edit: typo0 -
In the same way that I am not eating sugary foods - because I know they will eventually muck up my diet, I am not drinking because I know that my weight loss will be much slower!
In the name of G*d - why would I want to jeopardise my weight loss for the sake of one or two lousy glasses of wine!
Back to the topic at hand...
Just for a different view - for some people, cutting out something like drinking can actually jeopardize there weight loss due to sustainability.
Clearly, sustainability is a personal issue, but for me, never getting my rockstar on would be a detriment to my long term goals.
For some people avoiding alcohol (because it is a trigger, or leads to bad choices) is the way to go. For others, like myself, indulging (over indulging in my case :laugh: ) can be part of a long term weight loss plan.
To each their own I say - but if people don't want to stop drinking, they can still lose weight.0 -
Hey Folks,
I have removed and edited a few posts - thanks to all for getting the topic back on track and out of the mud.
Thanks,
Olivia
MFP Community Manager0 -
I'd be interested in seeing Lyle McDonald's follow-up if you can find it. And I'd be grateful if anyone can cite anything to help me figure out the conundrum I always get to when alcohol is discussed on these boards:
I don't understand the significance of the priority metabolization of alcohol when eating in a deficit. Yes, I understand as a toxin it is broken down first and takes priority over other sources of energy (calories from non-alcohol sources available / fat stores). But if a specific individual would burn as TDEE on any given day 2500 calories, getting 500 of those calories from alcohol should not alter the basic concept of calorie in / calorie out. It may alter the timing of the energy sources over the course of the day (or longer) but not the in / out relationship.
Think of it this way -- if you are eating / drinking at a deficit, then it doesn't matter so much (possible esoteric composition issues aside? other unknown effects?) that your body is spending part of its time busily metabolizing the alcohol as a priority -- it is still going to finish the day or week having to have found the same extra calories needed to function from your body's stores. Fat storage and oxidation is always happening, and pushing alcohol to the front of the line would not seem to alter the basic energy in - energy out calculation.
And for OP - I drink regularly and sometimes heavily. I am 55+ lbs down from my high. I count all my alcohol calories and I am not prone to snacking when tipsy - but if I were, I'd log the cals. My personal experience has been that so long as I manage my calories, drinking hasn't prevented regular and sometimes rapid (by MFP standards) weightloss.0 -
I've lost weight drinking or eating anything as long as the calories stay the same. Ofcourse I don't drink every day and usually not even once a week..but when I do drink I fit in the cals...even exercise the day of so I have more calories available...LOL I have noticed I can't drink as much anymore...that the smaller I get the less I can drink before hitting a certain level of drunkenness...which is fine with me that way I have less cals to worry about consuming...LOL
Hope that made sense. Do what works for you though. If you find that wine..or whatever you drink doesn't allow you to lose weight...you may decide not to drink at all or only on special occasions.0 -
I'd be interested in seeing Lyle McDonald's follow-up if you can find it. And I'd be grateful if anyone can cite anything to help me figure out the conundrum I always get to when alcohol is discussed on these boards:
I don't understand the significance of the priority metabolization of alcohol when eating in a deficit. Yes, I understand as a toxin it is broken down first and takes priority over other sources of energy (calories from non-alcohol sources available / fat stores). But if a specific individual would burn as TDEE on any given day 2500 calories, getting 500 of those calories from alcohol should not alter the basic concept of calorie in / calorie out. It may alter the timing of the energy sources over the course of the day (or longer) but not the in / out relationship.
Think of it this way -- if you are eating / drinking at a deficit, then it doesn't matter so much (possible esoteric composition issues aside? other unknown effects?) that your body is spending part of its time busily metabolizing the alcohol as a priority -- it is still going to finish the day or week having to have found the same extra calories needed to function from your body's stores. Fat storage and oxidation is always happening, and pushing alcohol to the front of the line would not seem to alter the basic energy in - energy out calculation.
And for OP - I drink regularly and sometimes heavily. I am 55+ lbs down from my high. I count all my alcohol calories and I am not prone to snacking when tipsy - but if I were, I'd log the cals. My personal experience has been that so long as I manage my calories, drinking hasn't prevented regular and sometimes rapid (by MFP standards) weightloss.
If you are in caloric deficit, then you are fine.
or you are hitting your caloric needs.
That is why I and others were saying, just make sure you count it properly.
Cause what you see with a lot of people who are fat or have a spare tire is the fact that they are not in deficit.
So every thing they are eating, while drinking is being stored as fat, due to the fact that the body is working to get rid of the alcohol.
So it is not the alcohol that is making people fat, per say.
And the other thing is to make sure you get your minimum protein and fat intake...
If you are hitting those, and you wish to make up the rest of your calories in alcohol, then I guess go head....
But then you start getting into the lack of nutritional value....
I guess it comes down to your goals and desires....
For me, and my goals.....I don't do alcohol...
Never had a desire for the stuff.....so I don't drink it.
But that is me....
If you need a drink to take the edge off....then go ahead and have some.....
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/how-we-get-fat.html
In regards to Lyle's follow up:
He wrote
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/lean-body-mass-maintenance-and-metabolic-rate-slowdown-qa.htmla long while back I had written an article as a background primer to something I had intended to write about alcohol. Well, now I don’t have to since Martin Berkhan over at Leangains.com has written it. In his article The Truth about Alcohol, Fat Loss and Muscle Gain he pretty much covers everything you could ever want to know about the topic.
So here is Martin's write up to which Lyle deferred to:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/truth-about-alcohol-fat-loss-and-muscle.html
I will excerpt this one portion from the article::
And please for God sake, read the whole article, I am not trying to cherry pick here....
I have posted links and info, so I am not shorting anyone from what I understand/think/believe regarding the issueAlcohol is converted to acetate by the liver. The oxidation of acetate takes precedence over other nutrients and is oxidized to carbon dioxide and water. However, despite being a potent inhibitor of lipolysis, alcohol/acetate alone cannot cause fat gain by itself. It's all the junk people eat in conjunction with alcohol intake that causes fat gain.0
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