Advice Please on Alcohol

I can drink a beer every now and then with dinner (I call it "sanity alcohol"). It does not appear to hurt my progress. I'd figure the same applies to wine.

I'd probably advise against drinking more than a couple beers/glasses. Besides the mystery of the alcohol micronutrient (an argument I'm staying out of), nothing good comes from getting drunk.

But I only have the instruction manual for MY body. I know guys who are in great physical shape, get loaded every weekend and still manage to stay in great physical shape. Good for them.

Super mature discussion here guys, keep up the good work.

In the same way that I am not eating sugary foods - because I know they will eventually muck up my diet, I am not drinking because I know that my weight loss will be much slower!

In the name of G*d - why would I want to jeopardise my weight loss for the sake of one or two lousy glasses of wine!

Back to the topic at hand...

Just for a different view - for some people, cutting out something like drinking can actually jeopardize there weight loss due to sustainability.

Clearly, sustainability is a personal issue, but for me, never getting my rockstar on would be a detriment to my long term goals.

For some people avoiding alcohol (because it is a trigger, or leads to bad choices) is the way to go. For others, like myself, indulging (over indulging in my case :laugh: ) can be part of a long term weight loss plan.

To each their own I say - but if people don't want to stop drinking, they can still lose weight.

I'd be interested in seeing Lyle McDonald's follow-up if you can find it. And I'd be grateful if anyone can cite anything to help me figure out the conundrum I always get to when alcohol is discussed on these boards:

I don't understand the significance of the priority metabolization of alcohol when eating in a deficit. Yes, I understand as a toxin it is broken down first and takes priority over other sources of energy (calories from non-alcohol sources available / fat stores). But if a specific individual would burn as TDEE on any given day 2500 calories, getting 500 of those calories from alcohol should not alter the basic concept of calorie in / calorie out. It may alter the timing of the energy sources over the course of the day (or longer) but not the in / out relationship.

Think of it this way -- if you are eating / drinking at a deficit, then it doesn't matter so much (possible esoteric composition issues aside? other unknown effects?) that your body is spending part of its time busily metabolizing the alcohol as a priority -- it is still going to finish the day or week having to have found the same extra calories needed to function from your body's stores. Fat storage and oxidation is always happening, and pushing alcohol to the front of the line would not seem to alter the basic energy in - energy out calculation.

And for OP - I drink regularly and sometimes heavily. I am 55+ lbs down from my high. I count all my alcohol calories and I am not prone to snacking when tipsy - but if I were, I'd log the cals. My personal experience has been that so long as I manage my calories, drinking hasn't prevented regular and sometimes rapid (by MFP standards) weightloss.

I'd be interested in seeing Lyle McDonald's follow-up if you can find it. And I'd be grateful if anyone can cite anything to help me figure out the conundrum I always get to when alcohol is discussed on these boards:

I don't understand the significance of the priority metabolization of alcohol when eating in a deficit. Yes, I understand as a toxin it is broken down first and takes priority over other sources of energy (calories from non-alcohol sources available / fat stores). But if a specific individual would burn as TDEE on any given day 2500 calories, getting 500 of those calories from alcohol should not alter the basic concept of calorie in / calorie out. It may alter the timing of the energy sources over the course of the day (or longer) but not the in / out relationship.

Think of it this way -- if you are eating / drinking at a deficit, then it doesn't matter so much (possible esoteric composition issues aside? other unknown effects?) that your body is spending part of its time busily metabolizing the alcohol as a priority -- it is still going to finish the day or week having to have found the same extra calories needed to function from your body's stores. Fat storage and oxidation is always happening, and pushing alcohol to the front of the line would not seem to alter the basic energy in - energy out calculation.

And for OP - I drink regularly and sometimes heavily. I am 55+ lbs down from my high. I count all my alcohol calories and I am not prone to snacking when tipsy - but if I were, I'd log the cals. My personal experience has been that so long as I manage my calories, drinking hasn't prevented regular and sometimes rapid (by MFP standards) weightloss.

If you are in caloric deficit, then you are fine.
or you are hitting your caloric needs.

That is why I and others were saying, just make sure you count it properly.

Cause what you see with a lot of people who are fat or have a spare tire is the fact that they are not in deficit.
So every thing they are eating, while drinking is being stored as fat, due to the fact that the body is working to get rid of the alcohol.
So it is not the alcohol that is making people fat, per say.

And the other thing is to make sure you get your minimum protein and fat intake...
If you are hitting those, and you wish to make up the rest of your calories in alcohol, then I guess go head....
But then you start getting into the lack of nutritional value....

I guess it comes down to your goals and desires....
For me, and my goals.....I don't do alcohol...
Never had a desire for the stuff.....so I don't drink it.
But that is me....
If you need a drink to take the edge off....then go ahead and have some.....

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/how-we-get-fat.html


In regards to Lyle's follow up:
He wrote
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/lean-body-mass-maintenance-and-metabolic-rate-slowdown-qa.html

a long while back I had written an article as a background primer to something I had intended to write about alcohol. Well, now I don’t have to since Martin Berkhan over at Leangains.com has written it. In his article The Truth about Alcohol, Fat Loss and Muscle Gain he pretty much covers everything you could ever want to know about the topic.

So here is Martin's write up to which Lyle deferred to:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/truth-about-alcohol-fat-loss-and-muscle.html

I will excerpt this one portion from the article::
And please for God sake, read the whole article, I am not trying to cherry pick here....
I have posted links and info, so I am not shorting anyone from what I understand/think/believe regarding the issue

Alcohol is converted to acetate by the liver. The oxidation of acetate takes precedence over other nutrients and is oxidized to carbon dioxide and water. However, despite being a potent inhibitor of lipolysis, alcohol/acetate alone cannot cause fat gain by itself. It's all the junk people eat in conjunction with alcohol intake that causes fat gain.

Thanks for posting this. I'm at work on a phone and posting so can't get links. Good stuff.

If I misread in regard to my the cherry picking comment, then my apologies. My concern was simply going beyond the basics of how the body processes alcohol to the "so what" and the importance of total energy balance.

Fine then mate....

But do not ever call me dishonest again.
I don't appreciate that one bit....

I don't know you from Adam, and my only goal when posting on these boards is to share my knowledge and understanding on things.....if I am wrong, say I am wrong, and show me.
Give me the info, I will do my research.....

But please do not call me dishonest.

Thanks for posting this. I'm at work on a phone and posting so can't get links. Good stuff.

If I misread in regard to my the cherry picking comment, then my apologies. My concern was simply going beyond the basics of how the body processes alcohol to the "so what" and the importance of total energy balance.

Fine then mate....

But do not ever call me dishonest again.
I don't appreciate that one bit....

I don't know you from Adam, and my only goal when posting on these boards is to share my knowledge and understanding on things.....if I am wrong, say I am wrong, and show me.
Give me the info, I will do my research.....

But please do not call me dishonest.

I infered from your post of the first Lyle article, combined with your statement about not drinking alcohol, something that was clearly not true. For the record, "intellectually dishonest" is not the same as calling you generally dishonest. In any event, I apologize. These debates should be vigorous, but fair.

Roger that mate. :drinker:

and for the record, I never said don't drink alcohol....
I am not for limiting foods at this point in the game.....
For me, I don't drink.....just me, party of ONE

Cheers :drinker:

So here is Martin's write up to which Lyle deferred to:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/truth-about-alcohol-fat-loss-and-muscle.html

Thanks for digging that up - I'd seen Martin's write-up before (and believe it was linked earlier in this thread). Nice to know that Lyle basically agrees in toto with that write-up. Cheers. :drinker:

So here is Martin's write up to which Lyle deferred to:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/truth-about-alcohol-fat-loss-and-muscle.html

Thanks for digging that up - I'd seen Martin's write-up before (and believe it was linked earlier in this thread). Nice to know that Lyle basically agrees in toto with that write-up. Cheers. :drinker:

Welcome