For all women who are striving for "
Replies
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Food for thought...
Do you wear make-up? Fooled yourself into thinking you are wearing it for you because you like it? It makes you feel good. Why is that? Why did you start wearing it then? I don't know many 4 year old who won't go out without mascara, unless they are trying to look like mommy that day. Sure.. maybe you'll go to the gym without it now or to the mailbox, but what about date night?? Maybe you have overcome it? Maybe you are now comfortable enough in your own skin to go out sans make up on date night. But what about 10 years ago?
I wear my make up because I don't want to look tired....And no I have not FOOLED myself into thinking it is for me. I KNOW my husband doesn't care. I care. I want to be the best version of me.
But why? Why is looking tired.. which is a normal way for humans to look, a bad thing? Why do we need to cover it with make up. Who told us or taught us that? Because you weren't 9 or 12 or 15 insisting on make-up because you don't want to look tired in public. (whatever age you either were able to get it yourself or your parents caved.. I was almost 16)
I'm not trying to pick on anyone. It's nothing personal. But there is more truth here then any of us want to admit. I'm not going to say I'm not guilty of this. And I do walk around saying i wear it for me so I don't look *whatever*. But that thought process comes from somewhere and often times its media telling me I need to look a certain way, irregardless of what guys have said. Yes. I've overcome most of it. I will and have gone out without make-up on date night. But I'm still not 100% comfortable with it and a lot of us aren't. And a lot more wouldn't dream of it. (i had a co-worker at one of my previous jobs who had been married for 40 years and woke up every single morning an hour before her husband to put on her make-up, so he wouldn't see her without it, that is sad in my opinion)
Again you generalize. What truth? There is more "truth" to what people are replying? Why? Because we won't give you the answers you want?
This is a dangerous game because it could mean that you are unwilling to accept us for who we are because we don't conform to what you believe to be "true."
It's all relative, you know?0 -
I wear makeup for the same reason above though not often. I find that of I look in the mirror and I look tired I feel even more tired. If I look in the mirror and look awake and like I got enough sleep, maybe a slight flush in my cheeks I feel more energized. Just my reason for makeup.
Food for thought...
Do you wear make-up? Fooled yourself into thinking you are wearing it for you because you like it? It makes you feel good. Why is that? Why did you start wearing it then? I don't know many 4 year old who won't go out without mascara, unless they are trying to look like mommy that day. Sure.. maybe you'll go to the gym without it now or to the mailbox, but what about date night?? Maybe you have overcome it? Maybe you are now comfortable enough in your own skin to go out sans make up on date night. But what about 10 years ago?
I wear my make up because I don't want to look tired....And no I have not FOOLED myself into thinking it is for me. I KNOW my husband doesn't care. I care. I want to be the best version of me.
But why? Why is looking tired.. which is a normal way for humans to look, a bad thing? Why do we need to cover it with make up. Who told us or taught us that? Because you weren't 9 or 12 or 15 insisting on make-up because you don't want to look tired in public. (whatever age you either were able to get it yourself or your parents caved.. I was almost 16)
I'm not trying to pick on anyone. It's nothing personal. But there is more truth here then any of us want to admit. I'm not going to say I'm not guilty of this. And I do walk around saying i wear it for me so I don't look *whatever*. But that thought process comes from somewhere and often times its media telling me I need to look a certain way, irregardless of what guys have said. Yes. I've overcome most of it. I will and have gone out without make-up on date night. But I'm still not 100% comfortable with it and a lot of us aren't. And a lot more wouldn't dream of it. (i had a co-worker at one of my previous jobs who had been married for 40 years and woke up every single morning an hour before her husband to put on her make-up, so he wouldn't see her without it, that is sad in my opinion)
Ps my husband loves the way I look with or without it.0 -
Food for thought...
Do you wear make-up? Fooled yourself into thinking you are wearing it for you because you like it? It makes you feel good. Why is that? Why did you start wearing it then? I don't know many 4 year old who won't go out without mascara, unless they are trying to look like mommy that day. Sure.. maybe you'll go to the gym without it now or to the mailbox, but what about date night?? Maybe you have overcome it? Maybe you are now comfortable enough in your own skin to go out sans make up on date night. But what about 10 years ago?
I wear my make up because I don't want to look tired....And no I have not FOOLED myself into thinking it is for me. I KNOW my husband doesn't care. I care. I want to be the best version of me.
But why? Why is looking tired.. which is a normal way for humans to look, a bad thing? Why do we need to cover it with make up. Who told us or taught us that? Because you weren't 9 or 12 or 15 insisting on make-up because you don't want to look tired in public. (whatever age you either were able to get it yourself or your parents caved.. I was almost 16)
I'm not trying to pick on anyone. It's nothing personal. But there is more truth here then any of us want to admit. I'm not going to say I'm not guilty of this. And I do walk around saying i wear it for me so I don't look *whatever*. But that thought process comes from somewhere and often times its media telling me I need to look a certain way, irregardless of what guys have said. Yes. I've overcome most of it. I will and have gone out without make-up on date night. But I'm still not 100% comfortable with it and a lot of us aren't. And a lot more wouldn't dream of it. (i had a co-worker at one of my previous jobs who had been married for 40 years and woke up every single morning an hour before her husband to put on her make-up, so he wouldn't see her without it, that is sad in my opinion)
Again you generalize. What truth? There is more "truth" to what people are replying? Why? Because we won't give you the answers you want?
This is a dangerous game because it could mean that you are unwilling to accept us for who we are because we don't conform to what you believe to be "true."
It's all relative, you know?
Because you didn't just decide one day that your face isn't perfect the way it is with no one showing you what it's "supposed" to look like or your body for that matter. I love that they are starting use different body types in ads and on TV, eventhough they still air brush them to make them look "better". Children do not think they are ugly until someone tells them they are. Whether it is learned through media, peers or watching family members alter their appearance or starve themselves. My son called himself ugly for the first time in 7th grade. I asked him why and he said because he is fat (he's not) and he doesn't have big muscles like the stars do (a lot of them do not either) He was taught this by media and other kids. And it's really really hard to combat and unlearn.
I'm not saying you can't outgrow it. Clearly the people posting here, taking offense or whatever, have. Great
Glad you have all embraced your body and your looks for what it is. This post was intended for those who have not. And they are all over. Striving to be a size 0 or weigh 85 pounds or thinking some part of their face is imperfect and wanting to fix it, stuff along those lines. Most likely they are on this path because they have been taught that they are not perfect, even though they are. Losing weight for health is great. Losing it so you look good outwardly is not, esp if you are striving to look like the people depicted in the ads.
I think if more young teens are shown what these celebrities and actors and models actually look like without airbrushing and enhancements and make-up, we might have less eating disorders and less self-hate. I was that girl (minus the eating disorder) for a long time. You can overcome it, but it takes strength, perseverance and a lot of love. And it's even harder if you do not have the right people in your life.0 -
Shemar Moore's pictures are nice to look at, but i'm not fooled into thinking that is really does look that perfect. (but cant' say that was true when I was younger) It's more attractive when I see a person who has bumps and scars and imperfection, because they are real.
I just wanted to show the women out there, striving for perfection, that there is no perfection. The images of perfection we see are digitally created.
Oh good grief, human beings are "real". You do realize that there are people who naturally don't have "bumps and scars" and too many "imperfections" (whatever that means) right?
The more you talk the more your posts seem to suggest that you have to earn some kind of scar, or have back rolls, or have an acne prone face, to collect your "real" card. Of course those are common issues, but not every person is dealing with them. Not every person who looks "perfect" in a photo is digitally altered. There are PLENTY of unaltered pics of people with crystal complexions, lean, athletic bodies, whatever, and they are just as "real" as people who don't have those things.
Tell women, men, people period, to strive to look the way that they feel comfortable and yes, accept that we all have unique traits. But you accomplish that by telling people to look at themselves and find peace, or work towards change, not villainizing other human beings and suggesting that they aren't "real". That argument frankly just makes a person look bitter, deluded, and jealous.
As far as the media goes, it's not going to change. Period. Media isn't a brand new entity. When human beings create, they tend to create the most "perfect" looking images of themselves that are popular at any given time. Unless you believe that all men looked like Michelangelo's "David" back when it was sculpted? Do you really think all those flawless black and white pictures of the old school starlets were authentic? Or the way they looked on film was accurate? No, of course not. Human beings come in every shape, size, color, etc, and yet the images perpetuated in media and art are always of whatever idealized version people are holding at any given time. That will never change.
We should be raising up our kids early with the mental fortitude to handle the barrage of images because the images will NOT stop.
Also, and I hate to have to state the obvious here, "perfect" images in the media isn't the biggest body problem facing humanity today, women or otherwise. OBESITY is. For all the media images we face, anorexia, bulimia, and other like restricting and purging eating disorders aren't anywhere near as prevalent as gluttonous overeating, which should be classified as a disorder. For all the constant onslaught of "perfect" images it sure is NOT making this nation, this world, any slimmer.
We are facing a very real, very serious issue with people's health getting out of control, and overweight, obese bodies becoming the norm. And guess what? THAT destroys the self esteems of far, far more people than anything you see in the media.0 -
I thought women want to look good for ...if anyone other than themselves, other women, not really for men. :flowerforyou:0
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Okay so I walked in here, thin, petite, not curvy, no big boobs, and love make-up as a hobby. Thanks for the real "pick-me up!"
My husband is a "real" man who loves me (and my body) and doesn't give a crap if I wear make-up or don't. I do it for me because it is fun. I enjoy matching my lipstick to my outfit or trying different eyeshadows. I'm not doing it because the "media" told me to. I have a minor in Women's Studies and fully understand feminism, the patriarchy etc. so don't bother explaining it to me.
Also please stop body-shaming people. I'm really sick of seeing this on MFP. And you keep saying "just watch the video." No. Your comments were enough for me.0 -
Perfection. Please watch this video. Please eat and love yourself for who you are and what you look like. We are all beautiful and unique and we need to stop striving for something that isn't obtainable in real life.
http://www.upworthy.com/5-minutes-of-what-the-media-actually-does-to-women-8?c=ufb3
Plus,.. real men like curves and real boobs. Not digitally enhanced ones.. :~)
I know you meant this in a good way but the whole real men like curves and real boobs thing bothers me. One you shouldn't be basing what you want to look like because of what "real men" like. Two Not cool to just generalize men like that. And lastly what about the skinny chicks without any boobs are we not desirable?
Further, it is not just women being photo shopped skinny. Plus size models are also photo shopped. Basically anyone subject to professional print is photo shopped. A good deal of the time those "curves" aren't really real. If they are they are covered in cellulite that has been photo shopped away.
Then there is that whole gender thing. Women are only half the issue in ads but not a single person ever address that issue. This unrealistic image thing hits everyone regardless of gender. For men, we are all supposed to be 6'5 dark tanned model looking millionaires.
The thing is, BBW, you are still just a segment of the population. A growing segment, yes, but this is a problem that reaches everyone. You can't do this without the rest of us. Stop pretending this is only your problem and you are the only ones being targeted here. You may actually get something to change at that point. Step out of your women studies classroom and stop being discriminatory and we will help you out.
Please. What a load of hogwash.
(1) Objectification and body-shaming is DISPROPORTIONATELY directed at females.
(2) Absolutely no one is arguing that men are exempt from it.
(3) BOTH are a direct result of patriarchy. Women did NOT create that "he-man" ideal. MEN did.
well said.0 -
Okay so I walked in here, thin, petite, not curvy, no big boobs, and love make-up as a hobby. Thanks for the real "pick-me up!"
My husband is a "real" man who loves me (and my body) and doesn't give a crap if I wear make-up or don't. I do it for me because it is fun. I enjoy matching my lipstick to my outfit or trying different eyeshadows. I'm not doing it because the "media" told me to. I have a minor in Women's Studies and fully understand feminism, the patriarchy etc. so don't bother explaining it to me.
Also please stop body-shaming people. I'm really sick of seeing this on MFP. And you keep saying "just watch the video." No. Your comments were enough for me.
If you are petite and love make-up, there is nothing wrong with that. The point of the video was mainly, if it wasn't bad enough so much pressure is being put on women to look a certain way, women have the added pressure of looking like models that don't even exist. The video is not referring to how ALL women feel, but rather how our culture is portraying female beauty and more importantly, female value is society.0 -
If you are petite and love make-up, there is nothing wrong with that. The point of the video was mainly, if it wasn't bad enough so much pressure is being put on women to look a certain way, women have the added pressure of looking like models that don't even exist. The video is not referring to how ALL women feel, but rather how our culture is portraying female beauty and more importantly, female value is society.
at least someone gets it.
Regarding the comment on obesity being a bigger issue. I don't know that i completely agree with that.. I know a lot of women with eating disorders who are not diagnosed. Obesity is just very obvious, eating disorders are not Health it what should be pushed from both ends, not perfection or a certain look. I was not brought up with a family that cared about looks. My mother never wore make-up and dressed mostly in sweaters and jeans. Dressing up for her was a button down shirt and a pair of earrings. She always told me I am beautiful. My dad was the same way. I learned it elsewhere. from my peers, from the media. I had no idea that people were airbrushed in the ads, not until I was older. No one tells you this and it's not common sense. I was raised that things are the way they seems. What a rude awakening.
Kids idolize these people in the ads. If no one tells them they are really an A cup not a C or that their waist is really a size 4 not a 0, then how do they know?
I'm not body shaming. I'm commenting on the video, that most of you clearly did not watch. I also see the responses people have to those who do have an eating disorder and they are less nice then they should be. "just eat" being the most common. It's not about that. It's about this, what this video addresses. Them striving for something that does not exist. Perfection as depicted by the media.
It does get down the the ridiculous when torn apart like it was in this thread and I shouldn't have let myself get roped into that part of it. Somewhere in our history American women forgot that healthy fit women are beautiful. (Men did not forget this for the most part). That is what needs to change.0 -
I enjoy wearing makeup and I haven't fooled myself into believing that I like it, I DO like it. I wear different colours according to my mood and outfit and I use it as a creative outlet. In fact, I enjoy it so much that I did a course in theatrical makeup many years ago. When I was younger I wore more goth style makeup. It wasn't particularly attractive from a traditional view, but it was fun at the time. I didn't care much about what others thought, or how it altered my attractiveness.Food for thought...
Do you wear make-up? Fooled yourself into thinking you are wearing it for you because you like it? It makes you feel good. Why is that? Why did you start wearing it then? I don't know many 4 year old who won't go out without mascara, unless they are trying to look like mommy that day. Sure.. maybe you'll go to the gym without it now or to the mailbox, but what about date night?? Maybe you have overcome it? Maybe you are now comfortable enough in your own skin to go out sans make up on date night. But what about 10 years ago?
Why the assumption that feeling comfortable in my own skin = wearing no makeup? This is an unfair generalisation and doesn't really help the point that I think you are trying to make. Not all women wear makeup to achieve a certain standard of beauty dictated by the media/society. Women shouldn't feel uncomfortable if they choose to wear makeup for whatever reason. Body shaming? Makeup shaming?0 -
Pamela anderson was a huge sex symbol in the 90s because men love *real* curves haha0
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But Confuzzled4ev do you realize that chronic overeating IS an eating disorder? Perhaps the largest class of them all? And that many, if not most, very overweight and obese individuals are indeed dealing with very disordered eating?
Our biggest issue today is NOT undereating and restrictive eating disorders. Those are serious issues, but they don't even remotely approach the level of overeating disorders and the resulting obesity epidemic.
Are you as indignant about our fat, obese girls and boys, who are shoveling down far more than they need, who are masking emotion with food, who are sick, and getting sicker, in extremely large quantities as you are the far less populace restricted eater? Because for all the false glam and glitz of those "digital" images, they sure haven't stopped millions of children from dealing with the exact opposite problem; gluttony. You really would think that if those images were as powerful as you state, we'd be seeing a resulting anorexia epidemic to match, if not succeed, the overeating one.
You can have passion about whatever topic you choose, obviously, but I do find it odd that you're advocating people be "real"...even if today being "real" has become a smokescreen for "let me eat as much as I want, be as fat as I want, and you not say a thing because I'm being real".0 -
Perfection. Please watch this video. Please eat and love yourself for who you are and what you look like. We are all beautiful and unique and we need to stop striving for something that isn't obtainable in real life.
http://www.upworthy.com/5-minutes-of-what-the-media-actually-does-to-women-8?c=ufb3
Plus,.. real men like curves and real boobs. Not digitally enhanced ones.. :~)
I know you meant this in a good way but the whole real men like curves and real boobs thing bothers me. One you shouldn't be basing what you want to look like because of what "real men" like. Two Not cool to just generalize men like that. And lastly what about the skinny chicks without any boobs are we not desirable?
Further, it is not just women being photo shopped skinny. Plus size models are also photo shopped. Basically anyone subject to professional print is photo shopped. A good deal of the time those "curves" aren't really real. If they are they are covered in cellulite that has been photo shopped away.
Then there is that whole gender thing. Women are only half the issue in ads but not a single person ever address that issue. This unrealistic image thing hits everyone regardless of gender. For men, we are all supposed to be 6'5 dark tanned model looking millionaires.
The thing is, BBW, you are still just a segment of the population. A growing segment, yes, but this is a problem that reaches everyone. You can't do this without the rest of us. Stop pretending this is only your problem and you are the only ones being targeted here. You may actually get something to change at that point. Step out of your women studies classroom and stop being discriminatory and we will help you out.
Not getting into this whole arguement but just want to take issue with this last paragraph since no one else has. Women are not just "a segment" of the population we are half of it. Always have been so we are not a growing segment. Women are not a minority group.0 -
But Confuzzled4ev do you realize that chronic overeating IS an eating disorder? Perhaps the largest class of them all? And that many, if not most, very overweight and obese individuals are indeed dealing with very disordered eating?
Our biggest issue today is NOT undereating and restrictive eating disorders. Those are serious issues, but they don't even remotely approach the level of overeating disorders and the resulting obesity epidemic.
Are you as indignant about our fat, obese girls and boys, who are shoveling down far more than they need, who are masking emotion with food, who are sick, and getting sicker, in extremely large quantities as you are the far less populace restricted eater? Because for all the false glam and glitz of those "digital" images, they sure haven't stopped millions of children from dealing with the exact opposite problem; gluttony. You really would think that if those images were as powerful as you state, we'd be seeing a resulting anorexia epidemic to match, if not succeed, the overeating one.
You can have passion about whatever topic you choose, obviously, but I do find it odd that you're advocating people be "real"...even if today being "real" has become a smokescreen for "let me eat as much as I want, be as fat as I want, and you not say a thing because I'm being real".
No. That is not what I said. Nor is it what I think. I've been the fat girl and I've been the girl not eating enough. Nobody except those I've told knows about that second part because it wasn't obvious and i was the fat girl who was under eating. Gluttony is not the topic of this thread. There's a myriad of issues out there, just because i point out one does not mean I don't recognize the other. Obesity comes with a set of potential medical problems, just as undereating does. both also have an elements of a mental disorder, but it's stronger in someone who is anorexic or bulimic or something along those lines.. The happen to believe the risk is greater for those who under eat because we can't see it. We don't know until the person collapses or become so thin and weak they can no longer hide it. I believe i stated that the focus should be on healthy, not skinny, not perfect. Healthy includes being proper weight.
there is a lot of help out there for people to get in order to fix their obesity issue. A lot of it is overcoming their own laziness, or lack of will power, or simply learning self control or convincing themselves they are worth it. . Once you do and you lose weight, you start to feel better, you start to look better and you gain confidence. This alone changes things. It's a lot more difficult to overcome under eating. because the exact opposite happens when they eat properly and gain weight. They lose confidence, feel ugly and don't necessarily feel better. It's a lot harder to stick with it.
ETA: I would want to see the media project images of people who are healthy body weight and are not air brushed or digitally enhanced, so that young impressionable girls can see what real women look like and can strive to look like that . But I obviously know this is a pipe dream. I also want to add that the images of skinny sexy perfection that are projected on the TV or in print do assist in over eating as well. I remember thinking I will never look like that, I will never be beautiful, so what is the point.. and then taking my 4th piece of cake. I believe under eating is a lot more rampant then we know, which is why I said i'd challenge the claim that obesity is the biggest epidemic. i had no idea my best friend ate 400 calories or less a day. My friends had no idea that i was eating 800 calories or less a day. I mean.. jeeze.. i was fat, how could that be. (drinking i was drinking, as soon as i stopped the weight fell off because I was eating so little). But no one knew.0 -
All true, generally we only see complaints about male objectification as an argument to devalue cancerns regarding female objectification. Not to say it doesn't happen to both genders but both the level of objectification and the level of its consequences on the cultural pressure of women to live up to the ideal are disproportionate.Perfection. Please watch this video. Please eat and love yourself for who you are and what you look like. We are all beautiful and unique and we need to stop striving for something that isn't obtainable in real life.
http://www.upworthy.com/5-minutes-of-what-the-media-actually-does-to-women-8?c=ufb3
Plus,.. real men like curves and real boobs. Not digitally enhanced ones.. :~)
I know you meant this in a good way but the whole real men like curves and real boobs thing bothers me. One you shouldn't be basing what you want to look like because of what "real men" like. Two Not cool to just generalize men like that. And lastly what about the skinny chicks without any boobs are we not desirable?
Further, it is not just women being photo shopped skinny. Plus size models are also photo shopped. Basically anyone subject to professional print is photo shopped. A good deal of the time those "curves" aren't really real. If they are they are covered in cellulite that has been photo shopped away.
Then there is that whole gender thing. Women are only half the issue in ads but not a single person ever address that issue. This unrealistic image thing hits everyone regardless of gender. For men, we are all supposed to be 6'5 dark tanned model looking millionaires.
The thing is, BBW, you are still just a segment of the population. A growing segment, yes, but this is a problem that reaches everyone. You can't do this without the rest of us. Stop pretending this is only your problem and you are the only ones being targeted here. You may actually get something to change at that point. Step out of your women studies classroom and stop being discriminatory and we will help you out.
Please. What a load of hogwash.
(1) Objectification and body-shaming is DISPROPORTIONATELY directed at females.
(2) Absolutely no one is arguing that men are exempt from it.
(3) BOTH are a direct result of patriarchy. Women did NOT create that "he-man" ideal. MEN did.
That being said, I don't think the term 'real women' or 'real men' is helpful to either gender or the issue at all, everyone is real, and no one should be devalued for not living up to any expectation, men and women.
You bring up an excellent point about objectification, while males also experience the pressures of society and standards of beauty, women tend to be the sole focus; unfortunately this is what happens in a patriarchal society. Also, I HATE the term "real women" and "real men" because it is degrading and devaluing to all genders. I am a real woman mainly because I have the biological and reproductive organs that make me a woman. Having or not having curves or boobs or whatever doesn't make my anymore or less a woman. With that being said, there is an enormous amount of media images that reflect an unrealistic standard of beauty for women.0
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