It's NOT always as simple as a deficit
Replies
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Where do you think the rest of the calories 'went'?The reason why I know it's not just about the calories is because back in 1999-2000, during and after the birth of my second child, I inexplicably lost all the extra weight I had carried during the previous 5-plus years, which was approx 50lbs. I didn't do anything different to previous, did not exercise or eat a different diet - it just fell off me. I didn't have a medical condition, which was one of the first concerns I had. My weight stayed stable for over a year, maybe 18 months and then unfortunately slowly went back on.
Did you ever have your BMR tested in both situations?
Did you actually measure your food?
If not, could it be that post-child birth your body changed for whatever reason and was burning more calories?
Like I said it was a mystery, I wasn't on a diet so didn't weigh food. When I was pregnant they found ketones in my urine and I was tested for gestational diabetes, but it came back negative. Basically I lost weight without trying. It's like my body reset to 'normal' for a while :huh:
Mystery most likely solved.
No the mystery is not solved, how did I lose weight without trying? Why would not weighing food make me lose weight?
you ate less than you needed to....
I eat less than I need to lots of times- i get busy so I forget to eat. It's not that hard to lose weight or gain weight without trying- it's easy- eat more or less than you need.
It's not really a mystery.0 -
Where do you think the rest of the calories 'went'?The reason why I know it's not just about the calories is because back in 1999-2000, during and after the birth of my second child, I inexplicably lost all the extra weight I had carried during the previous 5-plus years, which was approx 50lbs. I didn't do anything different to previous, did not exercise or eat a different diet - it just fell off me. I didn't have a medical condition, which was one of the first concerns I had. My weight stayed stable for over a year, maybe 18 months and then unfortunately slowly went back on.
Did you ever have your BMR tested in both situations?
Did you actually measure your food?
If not, could it be that post-child birth your body changed for whatever reason and was burning more calories?
Like I said it was a mystery, I wasn't on a diet so didn't weigh food. When I was pregnant they found ketones in my urine and I was tested for gestational diabetes, but it came back negative. Basically I lost weight without trying. It's like my body reset to 'normal' for a while :huh:
Mystery most likely solved.
No the mystery is not solved, how did I lose weight without trying? Why would not weighing food make me lose weight?
Because you weren't weighing/measuring/tracking your food, you have no idea how much you were eating. Obviously, it was less than you needed to maintain weight. It really isn't a mystery - it's really quite simple.
I really can't believe people are latching onto this part of my story. I wasn't weighing my food when I lost the weight on this occasion, but I also wasn't weighing my food when I put weight on all the other times.
I have already said I don't wish to track calories all my life - the point is, why did my body naturally balance my intake for 18 months. Weighing food has nothing to do with it, I'm not saying I wasn't eating less calories, the mystery is how it happened without me trying!0 -
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I really can't believe people are latching onto this part of my story. I wasn't weighing my food when I lost the weight on this occasion, but I also wasn't weighing my food when I put weight on all the other times.
I have already said I don't wish to track calories all my life - the point is, why did my body naturally balance my intake for 18 months. Weighing food has nothing to do with it, I'm not saying I wasn't eating less calories, the mystery is how it happened without me trying!
Most likely you ate at a level that got you to that weight and continued to eat that amount of food so you stayed around that weight...
All of these 'reasons' are not the point. I know it is possible to maintain a healthy weight without weighing food and tracking calories, I've done it before which was out of character and other people can do it too and have never needed to diet. If I was eating less, I didn't feel like I was. THIS IS THE POINT! This is my goal.0 -
Where do you think the rest of the calories 'went'?The reason why I know it's not just about the calories is because back in 1999-2000, during and after the birth of my second child, I inexplicably lost all the extra weight I had carried during the previous 5-plus years, which was approx 50lbs. I didn't do anything different to previous, did not exercise or eat a different diet - it just fell off me. I didn't have a medical condition, which was one of the first concerns I had. My weight stayed stable for over a year, maybe 18 months and then unfortunately slowly went back on.
Did you ever have your BMR tested in both situations?
Did you actually measure your food?
If not, could it be that post-child birth your body changed for whatever reason and was burning more calories?
Like I said it was a mystery, I wasn't on a diet so didn't weigh food. When I was pregnant they found ketones in my urine and I was tested for gestational diabetes, but it came back negative. Basically I lost weight without trying. It's like my body reset to 'normal' for a while :huh:
Mystery most likely solved.
No the mystery is not solved, how did I lose weight without trying? Why would not weighing food make me lose weight?
Oh, a bunch of reasons - post partum depression, oxytocin, prolactin and LH, breastfeeding, alcohol ketoacidosis, a variety of hidden diseases or infections can lead to ketoacidosis ... take your choice. Or watch House.0 -
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Lets say it took a total of two year to lose 50lb. That would be an average deficit of 240 calories a day.
You had just had a second kid, so reasonable you might be being more active. Also, I believe some weight tends to come off anyway from straight after birth to a few months later.
If it was exactly a year, that would still only be 480.
But, working on 240 - say you ate the equivalent of two jaffa cakes less a day (not something that's that easy to notice unless you're counting) and at the same time had an extra 30 minutes walking a day (chasing up two kids). Bingo - that's a 239 calorie deficit with just that.
So with a barely noticeable change in diet and a very slightly increased activity level, 50lb CAN just disappear.
Now sure, maybe it was shorter than that - but if parents are to believed, especially those with two kids - there's probably a good bit MORE energy spent that the equivalent of 30 minutes walking in looking after them. And could you have say, not noticed you didn't have so much time to sort your own food out?0 -
Oh, a bunch of reasons - post partum depression, oxytocin, prolactin and LH, breastfeeding, alcohol ketoacidosis, a variety of hidden diseases or infections can lead to ketoacidosis ... take your choice. Or watch House.
Maybe it was lupus
So I must have had an illness or hidden abnormality to be able to lose weight without weighing and purposely restricting my food?
Is it really so bizarre to have successful weight loss without being a slave to the scale? What a negative viewpoint!0 -
Lets say it took a total of two year to lose 50lb. That would be an average deficit of 240 calories a day.
You had just had a second kid, so reasonable you might be being more active. Also, I believe some weight tends to come off anyway from straight after birth to a few months later.
If it was exactly a year, that would still only be 480.
But, working on 240 - say you ate the equivalent of two jaffa cakes less a day (not something that's that easy to notice unless you're counting) and at the same time had an extra 30 minutes walking a day (chasing up two kids). Bingo - that's a 239 calorie deficit with just that.
So with a barely noticeable change in diet and a very slightly increased activity level, 50lb CAN just disappear.
Now sure, maybe it was shorter than that - but if parents are to believed, especially those with two kids - there's probably a good bit MORE energy spent that the equivalent of 30 minutes walking in looking after them. And could you have say, not noticed you didn't have so much time to sort your own food out?
I lost the weight in around a year and a half. Surely my calorific intake would have increased, not decreased if I was exercising more.
Whatever, the point is why can dieting be such a battle if it so damned easy to lose significant weight without noticing? I'm pretty certain that many people signed up to MFP do not consider it easy to drop 50lb!0 -
What?! I've never been overweight in my life! Why should paganstar be? My FITNESS pal. Not my fat pal.0
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I guess you've never watched a single episode of House, so I'll let this oversight slide
Sorry, I've never seen it so didn't understand the context.
Edited to fix quote tags.0 -
It's never Lupis.0
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So anyhow...where were we?
Oh yeah, I remember:
Losing weight for 99.44% of people is and always will be as simple as a caloric deficit over time. There are numerous factors that can affect the calories out side of the equation, and accurately measuring the calories in can be tricky because of measurement error (or entire lack of measurement) and bad labeling, but it is still just a math equation.
So are we all good here now?
It sounds like a good guess, that 99.44%, but something like 10% of women have PCOS. I forget how many overweight/obese people are predicted to have insulin resistance, but it's not a tiny figure. Then you have the hypothyroids, folks on certain medications, etc.
I agree overall, though. Even with myself, I just figured I lost weight slowly because it was just one of those things, but it does seem that the insulin resistance mattered quite a bit (in the speed part of the equation). Still, I've always lost weight when I meant to, even if it was slow with many plateaus. I'd never have said 'I CAN'T lose weight!' like so many posts we get on MFP.0 -
What?! I've never been overweight in my life! Why should paganstar be? My FITNESS pal. Not my fat pal.
Huh? :huh:
I'm guessing she might be because of this little clue at the end of each of her posts:
But honestly, it's my starting point for every single member here...that they were overweight at one point. Sure, it isn't always entirely accurate as you've pointed out at least a few dozen times in various threads in the forums here, but it's still a decent starting assumption for the vast majority.0 -
Lets say it took a total of two year to lose 50lb. That would be an average deficit of 240 calories a day.
You had just had a second kid, so reasonable you might be being more active. Also, I believe some weight tends to come off anyway from straight after birth to a few months later.
If it was exactly a year, that would still only be 480.
But, working on 240 - say you ate the equivalent of two jaffa cakes less a day (not something that's that easy to notice unless you're counting) and at the same time had an extra 30 minutes walking a day (chasing up two kids). Bingo - that's a 239 calorie deficit with just that.
So with a barely noticeable change in diet and a very slightly increased activity level, 50lb CAN just disappear.
Now sure, maybe it was shorter than that - but if parents are to believed, especially those with two kids - there's probably a good bit MORE energy spent that the equivalent of 30 minutes walking in looking after them. And could you have say, not noticed you didn't have so much time to sort your own food out?
I lost the weight in around a year and a half. Surely my calorific intake would have increased, not decreased if I was exercising more.
Whatever, the point is why can dieting be such a battle if it so damned easy to lose significant weight without noticing? I'm pretty certain that many people signed up to MFP do not consider it easy to drop 50lb!
*raises hand* I lost it in 7 months. Because of a simple deficit0 -
Lets say it took a total of two year to lose 50lb. That would be an average deficit of 240 calories a day.
You had just had a second kid, so reasonable you might be being more active. Also, I believe some weight tends to come off anyway from straight after birth to a few months later.
If it was exactly a year, that would still only be 480.
But, working on 240 - say you ate the equivalent of two jaffa cakes less a day (not something that's that easy to notice unless you're counting) and at the same time had an extra 30 minutes walking a day (chasing up two kids). Bingo - that's a 239 calorie deficit with just that.
So with a barely noticeable change in diet and a very slightly increased activity level, 50lb CAN just disappear.
Now sure, maybe it was shorter than that - but if parents are to believed, especially those with two kids - there's probably a good bit MORE energy spent that the equivalent of 30 minutes walking in looking after them. And could you have say, not noticed you didn't have so much time to sort your own food out?
I lost the weight in around a year and a half. Surely my calorific intake would have increased, not decreased if I was exercising more.
Whatever, the point is why can dieting be such a battle if it so damned easy to lose significant weight without noticing? I'm pretty certain that many people signed up to MFP do not consider it easy to drop 50lb!
*raises hand* I lost it in 7 months. Because of a simple deficit
6 months here.0 -
I lost the weight in around a year and a half. Surely my calorific intake would have increased, not decreased if I was exercising more.
Whatever, the point is why can dieting be such a battle if it so damned easy to lose significant weight without noticing? I'm pretty certain that many people signed up to MFP do not consider it easy to drop 50lb!
*raises hand* I lost it in 7 months. Because of a simple deficit
6 months here.
Well done, no doubt you did it by weighing food, restricting calories and tracking your efforts. Notice the difference?0 -
I lost the weight in around a year and a half. Surely my calorific intake would have increased, not decreased if I was exercising more.
Whatever, the point is why can dieting be such a battle if it so damned easy to lose significant weight without noticing? I'm pretty certain that many people signed up to MFP do not consider it easy to drop 50lb!
*raises hand* I lost it in 7 months. Because of a simple deficit
6 months here.
Well done, no doubt you did it by weighing food, restricting calories and tracking your efforts. Notice the difference?
The difference being that those likely to be successful on a site that is focused on accurately tracking both sides of the CICO equation have found success by accurately tracking both sides of the CICO equation...
...and those who have not yet found that success seem more likely to argue against its necessity or effectiveness?
Yes, I do see a difference.0 -
I lost the weight in around a year and a half. Surely my calorific intake would have increased, not decreased if I was exercising more.
Whatever, the point is why can dieting be such a battle if it so damned easy to lose significant weight without noticing? I'm pretty certain that many people signed up to MFP do not consider it easy to drop 50lb!
*raises hand* I lost it in 7 months. Because of a simple deficit
6 months here.
Well done, no doubt you did it by weighing food, restricting calories and tracking your efforts. Notice the difference?
The difference being that those likely to be successful on a site that is focused on accurately tracking both sides of the CICO equation have found success by accurately tracking both sides of the CICO equation...
...and those who have not yet found that success seem more likely to argue against its necessity or effectiveness?
Yes, I do see a difference.
I'm not arguing against the tracking method, I know it works. I am saying it is not the only method and is not the method I want to use long term. I am also saying there is evidence to suggest that the human body is equipped with the ability to maintain a healthy weight without artificial control methods.0 -
As an idea to both points - if I'm really stuck into doing some project in the garage all day, I can find myself hardly eating anything - I'm just not thinking about food, despite being reasonably active moving bits of motorbike around and such like. While normally I'm too focused on food - one of the reasons I'm hear and can easily eat, eat, eat all day.I lost the weight in around a year and a half. Surely my calorific intake would have increased, not decreased if I was exercising more.
Whatever, the point is why can dieting be such a battle if it so damned easy to lose significant weight without noticing? I'm pretty certain that many people signed up to MFP do not consider it easy to drop 50lb!
Having to deal with two kids certainly seems to be just the sort of thing that might 'distract' you and make you not notice that you were eating a little less while actually doing more.
For a year and a half we could bring it up to 50 minutes worth of extra walking a day worth of calories along with two jaffa cakes less.
Most overweight people on here are here because they have 'issues' with food - me, I just like it. But, you could also go in to all sorts of psychosocial issues probably (reality is I like eating when I'm happy OR sad ).
Often the people that 'became fat' did so through a change in lifestyle - they become more sedentary with office jobs while doing less 'active' activities. So reversing the situation and putting yourself in a place where you burn more calories and eat less without noticing can be the 'magic' you need.
I do try and cycle a fair for 'daily' stuff. Normally I'm working from home and town is close by, so it's not a massive calorie burn (and is quicker than a car anyway).
However last summer I was working on a contract in another part of the country - I took my large motorhome down but only had my push bike(s) for transport. I was eating what I'd consider too much and expecting to put weight on - I kept telling myself "I'll start eating good tomorrow/next Monday/Whatever". Yet actually the scales barely went up. I only had a 1.7 mile cycle ride to work and back. But did go a bit further afield occasionally for shopping. I suspect the generally higher level of activity was enough that the extra calories in vs calories out was a lot smaller than I was worried it was.0 -
I lost the weight in around a year and a half. Surely my calorific intake would have increased, not decreased if I was exercising more.
Whatever, the point is why can dieting be such a battle if it so damned easy to lose significant weight without noticing? I'm pretty certain that many people signed up to MFP do not consider it easy to drop 50lb!
*raises hand* I lost it in 7 months. Because of a simple deficit
6 months here.
Well done, no doubt you did it by weighing food, restricting calories and tracking your efforts. Notice the difference?
I've lost more than 10 lbs twice in my life without trying. I have also lost weight more times than that while tracking calories. I accept and understand the fact that the two times I lost without trying, were due to increased calorie needs without the increased calorie input to keep up with the needs. It's no great mystery. Why do you think it is such a mystery in your case?0 -
I lost the weight in around a year and a half. Surely my calorific intake would have increased, not decreased if I was exercising more.
Whatever, the point is why can dieting be such a battle if it so damned easy to lose significant weight without noticing? I'm pretty certain that many people signed up to MFP do not consider it easy to drop 50lb!
*raises hand* I lost it in 7 months. Because of a simple deficit
6 months here.
Well done, no doubt you did it by weighing food, restricting calories and tracking your efforts. Notice the difference?
I've lost more than 10 lbs twice in my life without trying. I have also lost weight more times than that while tracking calories. I accept and understand the fact that the two times I lost without trying, were due to increased calorie needs without the increased calorie input to keep up with the needs. It's no great mystery. Why do you think it is such a mystery in your case?
It's not so much a mystery, more the reassurance and proof that my body can create a natural balance without artificial effort. I'm not really sure why people are trying to explain and give reasons for why it happened, I quite readily accept it as a good thing.0 -
I firmly believe we (especially women) can cycle in and out of insulin resistance as we age.I think the folks who find that lower carb works when other things don't are probably insulin resistant (I am). You don't have to be diabetic to have problems in that area, and it's not very uncommon, particularly in people with extra weight. A lot of doctors don't check for those problems until your BG numbers actually flag you as diabetic, so it really is often undiagnosed.
The fix for it, mainly, is to watch carbs
So there ya go.
That is a great belief...do you have scientific studies to show this?
Do you have a scientific study to show that it doesn't? If not, all that means is there is no published study, either way, not that we do or don't cycle in and out of insulin resistance.
Personally I tend toward agreeing on the insulin resistance cycling as the body has been proven to cycle in and out of many different things as we age. Allergies are the first thing that comes to mind. It has been proven that what you are allergic to and how strongly you react to it CAN change from childhood to young adult to middle age to elderly.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11103847
I'm not sure about "cycling" in and out of insulin resistance due to age, though cycling in and out due to weight losses and gains makes sense. With that said, there are several studies supporting that insulin resistance does increase with age. It is one of the many reasons that weight loss becomes more difficult as we age.0 -
I have lost about 60 pounds just using a "simple" deficit…
Paganstar - it sounds like you just started eating less calories - for whatever reason - and that is how you lose the weight. It did not just magically disappear. You say you were not weighing your food, and then ask how you lost the weight; however, weighing your food cuts both ways..if you weigh and over eat you gain, if you do not weigh, and under eat, then you lose…
It really is that simple...0 -
For me it was really about eating at a deficit. I've had great success with it. The hard part is figuring out (testing the waters so to say) at where your BMI is. They have a preset one on here but honestly, a machine cannot tell you exactly how much calories you burn off because it doesn't know exactly what you do in a day. SO you have to move your calorie intake up and down every now and then to get a better feel on what your body is burning in a day.
I find people that aren't losing weight from a deficit are the ones who aren't properly tracking their foods, or not all of their foods. They either don't have a scale or snack in between and think it's not big enough to write down (but it all adds up!)... or you know... many many reasons. It's either that, a medical condition or as i stated above, not knowing really where your BMI stands.
In my humble opinion... lol0 -
Paganstar:
re: your profile pic... Who do you identify with? The fit woman in the tshirt, or the person who made the caption?0 -
I lost the weight in around a year and a half. Surely my calorific intake would have increased, not decreased if I was exercising more.
Whatever, the point is why can dieting be such a battle if it so damned easy to lose significant weight without noticing? I'm pretty certain that many people signed up to MFP do not consider it easy to drop 50lb!
*raises hand* I lost it in 7 months. Because of a simple deficit
6 months here.
Well done, no doubt you did it by weighing food, restricting calories and tracking your efforts. Notice the difference?
I've lost more than 10 lbs twice in my life without trying. I have also lost weight more times than that while tracking calories. I accept and understand the fact that the two times I lost without trying, were due to increased calorie needs without the increased calorie input to keep up with the needs. It's no great mystery. Why do you think it is such a mystery in your case?
It's not so much a mystery, more the reassurance and proof that my body can create a natural balance without artificial effort. I'm not really sure why people are trying to explain and give reasons for why it happened, I quite readily accept it as a good thing.
Because for many people, myself among them, understanding the 'why' of a thing makes it more likely to be able to intentionally do that thing and to be able to consistently repeat it as desired.
Of course, that's also my reasoning behind why I track diligently (despite my ability to maintain body weight in a reasonably healthy range without doing it). Well, that and I like being able to eat the maximum amount of ice cream while still staying at a healthy weight and if I don't track, I'm just guessing with possible outcomes of 1) eating too much and finding myself at an unhealthy weight, or worse 2) not optimizing my ice cream eating.0 -
It's not so much a mystery, more the reassurance and proof that my body can create a natural balance without artificial effort. I'm not really sure why people are trying to explain and give reasons for why it happened, I quite readily accept it as a good thing.
Because for many people, myself among them, understanding the 'why' of a thing makes it more likely to be able to intentionally do that thing and to be able to consistently repeat it as desired.
Of course, that's also my reasoning behind why I track diligently (despite my ability to maintain body weight in a reasonably healthy range without doing it). Well, that and I like being able to eat the maximum amount of ice cream while still staying at a healthy weight and if I don't track, I'm just guessing with possible outcomes of 1) eating too much and finding myself at an unhealthy weight, or worse 2) not optimizing my ice cream eating.
I guess we have completely different goals out of our weight management then. I want my body weight to be a complete non-issue in my life, whereas you are happy to spend time manipulating and commanding it as a hobby.0
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