move less and eat less

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  • albayin
    albayin Posts: 2,524 Member
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    I somewhat agree. There is a point when cutting calories is going to help you loose more than adding workout calorie burn. It is a kind of plateau your body will go thru. Especially if you do not have the energy burner of muscle to back it. Your body is smart and will try to survive and if it sees you trying to weaken it with a ton of exercise it is going to fight back do what it can to maintain itself.

    There was an article that Mathew Maconaghey did about loosing the 40+ pounds for Dallas Buyers Club. He said that it came to a point where all the cardio in the would would not help him loose. He had to drop his intake to succeed. I cant believe I am using Mathew Maconaghey as a reference but I did!

    Keep on going!
    Amanda

    Cardio has plenty of benefits aside from just weight loss. That's why people do it.

    Not only that, but at a cardio state your muscles continue to burn for a while even after you stop exercising. The numbers being bandied about might work for someone who is right at the edge of their ideal weight/intake.

    But you take someone who is 400 lbs and is going from a zero activity level, and tell me 30 mins of cardio a day + a restricted calorie diet isn't going to help with weight loss.

    All good points here but I still think OP's points were clearly misunderstood. "move less " doesn't mean "zero move". It is all relatively speaking...

    Cardio is good, too much cardio...I don't know. But of course "too much" for me isn't necessarily too much for you.

    Please don't beat me. :flowerforyou:
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,404 MFP Moderator
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    SCIENCE tells us that activating a muscle group once a week is what prevents the muscle loss.

    I think this is heavily context dependent, but do you have a resource on the above?

    This appears to have been missed. Interested myself.

    As am I... in for some science when it comes.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    How about some reputable sources and information as opposed to just personal preference and anecdotal evidence...

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/why-big-caloric-deficits-and-lots-of-activity-can-hurt-fat-loss.html

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/what-defines-cardio-in-terms-of-too-much-qa.html

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/too-much-cardio-followup.html

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-2.html

    There you go, trying to bring some context into the thread...it's kinda important :happy:

    Just based on the first link alone, I'm fully willing to file this guys "information site" into the junk category.

    Oh, look, a case study one ONE runner. That proves everything!

    A case study I can't even read, because it's a pay-for-subscription journal that's publishing it.

    Hogwash, codswoddle, and a snake oil guru to boot.

    If what he's saying works for you, great.

    I'll base my regimen on actual science that has been seen, studied, and recorded for years. Not a single case study cited by someone who clearly doesn't understand the difference between anecdote and data.

    Yep...Lyle absolutely knows nothing about the difference between anecdote and data.

    And I absolutely never base anything I do on actual science. I suppose I had better start doing that!
  • Amandainportland
    Amandainportland Posts: 3 Member
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    I somewhat agree. There is a point when cutting calories is going to help you loose more than adding workout calorie burn. It is a kind of plateau your body will go thru. Especially if you do not have the energy burner of muscle to back it. Your body is smart and will try to survive and if it sees you trying to weaken it with a ton of exercise it is going to fight back do what it can to maintain itself.

    There was an article that Mathew Maconaghey did about loosing the 40+ pounds for Dallas Buyers Club. He said that it came to a point where all the cardio in the would would not help him loose. He had to drop his intake to succeed. I cant believe I am using Mathew Maconaghey as a reference but I did!

    Keep on going!
    Amanda

    Cardio has plenty of benefits aside from just weight loss. That's why people do it.

    Not only that, but at a cardio state your muscles continue to burn for a while even after you stop exercising. The numbers being bandied about might work for someone who is right at the edge of their ideal weight/intake.

    But you take someone who is 400 lbs and is going from a zero activity level, and tell me 30 mins of cardio a day + a restricted calorie diet isn't going to help with weight loss.
    [/quote

    I did not say cardio did not have other benefits. I do not see where you disagree with my post. I believe you are inferring extra meaning to my words.

    Once you stop doing cardio the calorie burn is pretty much done. I do not know where you get the idea that it is prolonged after you have recovered within minutes. Weight training has a prolonged burn. this because you muscles will continue to repair and build causing more calorie burn. Simple cardio is mainly burning the sugars in your body. After the first half hour for most people the sugar stored in your liver will be spent and your body will work to recover its supply.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,404 MFP Moderator
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    I somewhat agree. There is a point when cutting calories is going to help you loose more than adding workout calorie burn. It is a kind of plateau your body will go thru. Especially if you do not have the energy burner of muscle to back it. Your body is smart and will try to survive and if it sees you trying to weaken it with a ton of exercise it is going to fight back do what it can to maintain itself.

    There was an article that Mathew Maconaghey did about loosing the 40+ pounds for Dallas Buyers Club. He said that it came to a point where all the cardio in the would would not help him loose. He had to drop his intake to succeed. I cant believe I am using Mathew Maconaghey as a reference but I did!

    Keep on going!
    Amanda

    Cardio has plenty of benefits aside from just weight loss. That's why people do it.

    Not only that, but at a cardio state your muscles continue to burn for a while even after you stop exercising. The numbers being bandied about might work for someone who is right at the edge of their ideal weight/intake.

    But you take someone who is 400 lbs and is going from a zero activity level, and tell me 30 mins of cardio a day + a restricted calorie diet isn't going to help with weight loss.
    IIRC, the epoc on steady state cardio is very low; this is why interval training is far superior as it has a higher epoc effect and HIIT can help with muscle retention.
  • Trechechus
    Trechechus Posts: 2,819 Member
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    What I read:
    "If you jeopardize your muscle and heart health, you can lose weight faster."
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    In...

    ...for...

    ...just in.
  • askyej2010
    askyej2010 Posts: 9
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    It has taken me a year to figure out, and I'd be a jerk if I didn't share.

    Trying to lose weight? Working out more than 3 times a week? There is your problem.


    Take a look around at posts from people "doing everything right and not losing". What do almost all of them have in common? Crazy exercise regimen.


    Losing weight is a destructive process. By definition. While you are tearing down the body you have now, don't think of training as anything but a way to reduce the damage from this process. Eat less, move less. Find a distraction that isn't going to prolong your weight loss. Working out is not a good one!



    I'm afraid to post in this thread as I'm fairly certain I will recieve enormous backlash, lol but I completely agree with you OP. I've lost more weight staying at constant calorie deficit than I have running for two hours a day 5 days a week. I just ended up with a broken body and disheartened spirit. By your post, I did, and still continue, to "eat less, move less". And no, I am not starving myself, I never feel deprived, and I haven't lost muscle nor has my body comp changed (well, except for the fat that is no longer there and I look much better naked, ha). Now, I'm not saying that everyone else is wrong for doing their own thing. Everybody is different and not all will find that one certain regimen will work out for them. I just find it kind of disheartening to see how quickly someone is willing to bash someone else's weight loss method and all they're trying to do is share in hopes that it may help someone else. Isn't that what this site is supposed to be about? Coming together to support each other towards a common goal?
  • Dewymorning
    Dewymorning Posts: 762 Member
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    I exercise to prevent myself going crazy. :P

    ANyway, I do cardio about 3-4 times a week and the other days I do stretching exercises and I walk everyday. Is that too much?

    I am happy with my weightloss progress. I might even up my calories a little as I don't want to lose it too fast because of potential hereditary gallbladder issues.
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
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    Is this a joke post? Someone please tell me that this is a joke post.
  • Ctrum69
    Ctrum69 Posts: 308 Member
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    ]
    IIRC, the epoc on steady state cardio is very low; this is why interval training is far superior as it has a higher epoc effect and HIIT can help with muscle retention.

    Hmm.. my reading doesn't show much of a difference at all, in EPOC, just that you can (typically) burn more during the exercise with HIIT during a certain period of time than steady state (which is kind of a no brainer).

    And a lot of THAT came from the last, oh, decade or so, when the marketing of fitness machines and programs moved to "You can have THIS BODY for just 20 minutes a day, 3 days a week".

    They tend to push HIIT simply because it gets max cardio burn in the period of time they have allotted for the workout.

    HIIT also tends to hit specific groups harder and faster, which can build muscle faster.

    Look at it this way:

    Walk at 3.5 MPH for 20 minutes.

    Do walk/sprint/walk intervals for 20 minutes.

    Your overall cardio burn is going to be higher on the second one.

    BUT: I'll wager at 10 and 15 and 20 minutes post workout, on both, you will be at the same level, as far as the EPOC, or very close.

    (Caveat: If you are horribly out of shape, etc, YMMV).
  • Achrya
    Achrya Posts: 16,913 Member
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    It has taken me a year to figure out, and I'd be a jerk if I didn't share.

    Trying to lose weight? Working out more than 3 times a week? There is your problem.


    Take a look around at posts from people "doing everything right and not losing". What do almost all of them have in common? Crazy exercise regimen.


    Losing weight is a destructive process. By definition. While you are tearing down the body you have now, don't think of training as anything but a way to reduce the damage from this process. Eat less, move less. Find a distraction that isn't going to prolong your weight loss. Working out is not a good one!

    I was going to guess an inability to count.
  • wheird
    wheird Posts: 7,963 Member
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    Is this a joke post? Someone please tell me that this is a joke post.

    Nope. It isn't. It reads like one considering how clustered it is, but no, it was a serious post.
  • randomtai
    randomtai Posts: 9,003 Member
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    post-8766-YEAH-SCIENCE-Breaking-Bad-gif-og7N.gif
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,404 MFP Moderator
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    ]
    IIRC, the epoc on steady state cardio is very low; this is why interval training is far superior as it has a higher epoc effect and HIIT can help with muscle retention.

    Hmm.. my reading doesn't show much of a difference at all, in EPOC, just that you can (typically) burn more during the exercise with HIIT during a certain period of time than interval (which is kind of a no brainer).

    And a lot of THAT came from the last, oh, decade or so, when the marketing of fitness machines and programs moved to "You can have THIS BODY for just 20 minutes a day, 3 days a week".

    They tend to push HIIT simply because it gets max cardio burn in the period of time they have allotted for the workout.

    HIIT also tends to hit specific groups harder and faster, which can build muscle faster.

    Look at it this way:

    Walk at 3.5 MPH for 20 minutes.

    Do walk/sprint/walk intervals for 20 minutes.

    Your overall cardio burn is going to be higher on the second one.

    BUT: I'll wager at 10 and 15 and 20 minutes post workout, on both, you will be at the same level, as far as the EPOC, or very close.

    (Caveat: If you are horribly out of shape, etc, YMMV).

    Any chance you have any studies? I would love to read them. I definitely will have to look in my archive again. I could be wrong though.
  • xscat
    xscat Posts: 80 Member
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    To your point, yes, exercise is not as important as dieting when it comes to weight loss... I know a girl who went from 105lbs to 88lbs in 3 months and her "key to success" was to never exercise except for going clothes shopping, and to eat nothing but raw veggies.

    Had she lost weight? Yes. Did she look better? Hell no. She's 5'2" and 105lbs already put her on the low end of healthy weight. She looked like a 13-yr-old pre-puberty girl at the age of 21 and worst of all she suffered from low glucose level, low blood pressure and anemia.

    So my point is, the whole purpose of losing weight is to be "better", and hurting your own health while losing all your muscle mess/curves sure aren't part of "better"....
  • pcastagner
    pcastagner Posts: 1,606 Member
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    What I read:
    "If you jeopardize your muscle and heart health, you can lose weight faster."

    Then you are just making it up, sorry.

    Cardio belongs in a good all around fitness program, especially if you are bulking.

    You aren't getting better conditioning by training every day, which is why professional training regimens are PERIODIC. Yes, I do think many people don't rest enough, because they follow the same pattern I did. They do too much cardio. But nowhere in here or anywhere else do I claim cardio shouldn't be part of a balanced program. The question here is "what is appropriate, and when it is appropriate, given your goals".





    The only valid argument against what I'm advocating here has been the mental health one. I would suggest to someone concerned about this to see what happens to their mood on a steeper deficit and more rest though, rather than just assume. In my experience, if I run a steep enough deficit, it's enough to keep the cabin fever at bay.
  • pcastagner
    pcastagner Posts: 1,606 Member
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    SCIENCE tells us that activating a muscle group once a week is what prevents the muscle loss.

    I think this is heavily context dependent, but do you have a resource on the above?

    This appears to have been missed. Interested myself.

    More like postponed, until I'm not limited by iOS.


    I can never get one over on you, Sara. Which is probably why you always ignore my friend requests.
  • Greytfish
    Greytfish Posts: 810
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    To your point, yes, exercise is not as important as dieting when it comes to weight loss... I know a girl who went from 105lbs to 88lbs in 3 months and her "key to success" was to never exercise except for going clothes shopping, and to eat nothing but raw veggies.

    Had she lost weight? Yes. Did she look better? Hell no. She's 5'2" and 105lbs already put her on the low end of healthy weight. She looked like a 13-yr-old pre-puberty girl at the age of 21 and worst of all she suffered from low glucose level, low blood pressure and anemia.

    So my point is, the whole purpose of losing weight is to be "better", and hurting your own health while losing all your muscle mess/curves sure aren't part of "better"....

    Eating in a manner designed to starve the body (vs. make it run in a caloric deficit) and cause extreme nutrient deficiency in order to cause extreme weight loss is a far cry from what the OP advocated.
  • tigersword
    tigersword Posts: 8,059 Member
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    You're talking about not over training, which is basically any combination of too much exercise, too little calories, and/or too little rest. Not sure what's so controversial here.

    When cutting you do the minimum amount of exercise necessary to maintain mass, then when bulking/at maintenance you push it to the max. Pretty common sense, really.
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