In Place of a Road Map: Short N' Sweet

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  • Mischievous_Rascal
    Mischievous_Rascal Posts: 1,791 Member
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    Bumping for awesomeness. :)
  • JG762
    JG762 Posts: 571 Member
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    Tag for later review...
  • Helloitsdan
    Helloitsdan Posts: 5,565 Member
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    Hello! This is a great post so thank you so much for creating a simpler, clearer version. :)

    I would like to clarify my BMR and especially my TDEE. My stats are:
    Age: 22
    Height: 5 ft 1
    CW: 116 lbs
    GW: 105 lbs
    Body fat % : on average 24.4% (working to get it down to 20%)

    Based on the calculations here http://www.fat2fitradio.com/tools/bmr/, I get the following TDEE:

    Sedentary (little or no exercise, desk job) - 1612
    Lightly Active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/wk) - 1847
    Moderately Active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/wk) - 2082
    Very Active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days/wk) - 2317
    Extremely Active (hard daily exercise/sports & physical job or 2X day training, i.e marathon, contest etc.) - 2552

    I am sitting down at the desk all day long, barely going over 1,000 steps a day based on my pedometer, sometimes even less. However, I started Fitnessblender's 8 week Fat Loss program this Jan 1, 2014 and I work out 5x a week, averaging 30~60 minutes per workout. So literally, I am only active for 30~60 minutes of the day. Currently, I have increased by calories to 1,300 (used to be 1,200). I take 2 days off during the weekend or substitute 1 day during the weekday if my muscles are sore.

    Thus, based on my activity level, should I still be considered sedentary? Really need some clarification on this.

    Finally, if I eat 1,300 calories a day, should I eat back exercise calories?

    Thanks!

    1000 steps a day will surely have you riding a motorized wheelchair when you are 60....

    First simply add walking to your day.
    If you use fitness blender, do it maybe 3 days a week for strength then the rest should simply be walking.
    Just walk.
    Everywhere!
    Eat at full moderate TDEE till you maintain your weight, then you'll notice the fat slowly drop.
    That is as long as you do the strength training.
    If you forgo strength training and opt strictly for cardio, kiss mobility at older age goodbye.
  • dapunks
    dapunks Posts: 245 Member
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    BUMP
  • 2bfit4me4ever
    2bfit4me4ever Posts: 3
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    Bump.
  • Stephiestephs
    Stephiestephs Posts: 132 Member
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    would you mind giving your opinion?
    after my first baby i found your threads and followed bmr/tdee method and was losing 1 lb a week. i got pg again, after having my second healthy baby boy this past december, i had to take it easy for 6 wks so i was eating around 13-1400 cals a day because i wasnt moving too much. some nights a little less just because of how the day went by.
    also i am pumping my breast milk 3-4 times per 24hr period. (but i dont want to add cals for this because with first baby i did and gained weight)
    so after i left hosp i lost 13 pounds eating avg 13-1400 cals a day in about 5 weeks.
    the last 2 weeks i have been stuck at 174-175
    last week i started T25 at home

    so, last night i did my numbers according to this post. i found out my bmr according to katch on fat 2 fit is 1509 harris 1553

    do you think the weight loss stall is due to not eating my bmr for 8 weeks?

    also do you prefer to use the tdee numbers from fat 2 fit or the manual calculations you provide (bmr x 1.3 etc etc) to find calorie deficit because there is a large discrepancy between the two by 100 calories give or take.

    do i follow katch bmr or harris provided on fat2fit? i did do an avg bf% as you suggested.

    any help would be appreciated!
  • ggeise14
    ggeise14 Posts: 386 Member
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    Bump (want the short version)
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    would you mind giving your opinion?
    after my first baby i found your threads and followed bmr/tdee method and was losing 1 lb a week. i got pg again, after having my second healthy baby boy this past december, i had to take it easy for 6 wks so i was eating around 13-1400 cals a day because i wasnt moving too much. some nights a little less just because of how the day went by.
    also i am pumping my breast milk 3-4 times per 24hr period. (but i dont want to add cals for this because with first baby i did and gained weight)
    so after i left hosp i lost 13 pounds eating avg 13-1400 cals a day in about 5 weeks.
    the last 2 weeks i have been stuck at 174-175
    last week i started T25 at home

    so, last night i did my numbers according to this post. i found out my bmr according to katch on fat 2 fit is 1509 harris 1553

    do you think the weight loss stall is due to not eating my bmr for 8 weeks?

    also do you prefer to use the tdee numbers from fat 2 fit or the manual calculations you provide (bmr x 1.3 etc etc) to find calorie deficit because there is a large discrepancy between the two by 100 calories give or take.

    do i follow katch bmr or harris provided on fat2fit? i did do an avg bf% as you suggested.

    any help would be appreciated!

    First, and you may be commenting on noticing this - the fat2fit site TDEE eating levels is based on Harris BMR, despite the fact they are showing Katch. So yes that table is inflated from what it should be.

    Second, your body is expending extra energy making milk, it does count. As such, you create too big a deficit your body will fight you.

    Are you close to 5" for that low of TDEE?

    You might get a best estimate of BF%, and BMR, and activity level, and TDEE, from the Simple Setup tab in my spreadsheet on my profile page.

    I'm betting you are undercutting too much, body is stressed out, and it's slowed down your spontaneous activity and lowered your metabolism some to adapt.

    Since it sounds like you've been on a diet for 6-8 weeks while body was trying to recovery, probably time to work your way slowly up to estimated TDEE to get a diet break, which is always useful anyway.
  • Stephiestephs
    Stephiestephs Posts: 132 Member
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    would you mind giving your opinion?
    after my first baby i found your threads and followed bmr/tdee method and was losing 1 lb a week. i got pg again, after having my second healthy baby boy this past december, i had to take it easy for 6 wks so i was eating around 13-1400 cals a day because i wasnt moving too much. some nights a little less just because of how the day went by.
    also i am pumping my breast milk 3-4 times per 24hr period. (but i dont want to add cals for this because with first baby i did and gained weight)
    so after i left hosp i lost 13 pounds eating avg 13-1400 cals a day in about 5 weeks.
    the last 2 weeks i have been stuck at 174-175
    last week i started T25 at home

    so, last night i did my numbers according to this post. i found out my bmr according to katch on fat 2 fit is 1509 harris 1553

    do you think the weight loss stall is due to not eating my bmr for 8 weeks?

    also do you prefer to use the tdee numbers from fat 2 fit or the manual calculations you provide (bmr x 1.3 etc etc) to find calorie deficit because there is a large discrepancy between the two by 100 calories give or take.

    do i follow katch bmr or harris provided on fat2fit? i did do an avg bf% as you suggested.

    any help would be appreciated!

    First, and you may be commenting on noticing this - the fat2fit site TDEE eating levels is based on Harris BMR, despite the fact they are showing Katch. So yes that table is inflated from what it should be.

    Second, your body is expending extra energy making milk, it does count. As such, you create too big a deficit your body will fight you.

    Are you close to 5" for that low of TDEE?

    You might get a best estimate of BF%, and BMR, and activity level, and TDEE, from the Simple Setup tab in my spreadsheet on my profile page.

    I'm betting you are undercutting too much, body is stressed out, and it's slowed down your spontaneous activity and lowered your metabolism some to adapt.

    Since it sounds like you've been on a diet for 6-8 weeks while body was trying to recovery, probably time to work your way slowly up to estimated TDEE to get a diet break, which is always useful anyway.

    thank you for responding. yes i am bout 5'3"-5'4". ok i will take a look at your profile page.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    thank you for responding. yes i am bout 5'3"-5'4". ok i will take a look at your profile page.

    Nope, short is 5'1" or less to probably have a TDEE that includes everything that low. Now, perhaps with Katch BMR you are that low because you've lost some muscle mass compared to others your age, weight, height.
    That would be a bummer of course, but can work within that constraint by eating less than others.
    But you don't want to go too low and risk more loss if that's the case.
  • Stephiestephs
    Stephiestephs Posts: 132 Member
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    thank you for responding. yes i am bout 5'3"-5'4". ok i will take a look at your profile page.

    Nope, short is 5'1" or less to probably have a TDEE that includes everything that low. Now, perhaps with Katch BMR you are that low because you've lost some muscle mass compared to others your age, weight, height.
    That would be a bummer of course, but can work within that constraint by eating less than others.
    But you don't want to go too low and risk more loss if that's the case.

    bmr on your google file is 1475. it may be that i have a lot of belly still from pregnancy and i have to be careful when i am pregnant first one i was on bedrest and this one pretty much no walking, lifting etc. not bedrest but had to be very careful. so i am sure i have lost a ton of muscle mass??
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    bmr on your google file is 1475. it may be that i have a lot of belly still from pregnancy and i have to be careful when i am pregnant first one i was on bedrest and this one pretty much no walking, lifting etc. not bedrest but had to be very careful. so i am sure i have lost a ton of muscle mass??

    If your Katch BMR based on decent estimate of BF% is 1475, and by age, weight, height is 1553, then not that bad at all, good job. Katch is usually within 5-7%.

    Now though, you say you are eating 1300-1400 and not losing weight.

    So either your logging is sloppy and you are eating much more than that, and whatever that true higher figure is is really your true TDEE and you have no deficit in place.
    or ....
    Your logging is decent enough, and you have suppressed your body down so bad the 1300-1400 is your TDEE now, and your real BMR is a tad lower.

    If it is the former, then you would just take out some calories from your incorrect 1300-1400 knowing you are actually eating more.
    But if you are not sure you are logging decently, and you do that - you'll just be chasing a falling metabolism right on in to the ground.

    Now, eventually, you can only suppress it so much, couple studies have said 20% max they saw, and eventually if you cut enough you will start losing.

    So up to you to answer - how accurate is your logging?

    You feel confident enough it's accurate enough to eat less and not be crashing your daily burn even more?
    One study showed improvement eating at maintenance after only 3 months, though it was still lower than it could have been if it had not been adapted.
    Another study showed it took upwards of 6 years to recover, in which case finish the weight loss and accept that maintenance eating is going to suck big time for potentially a long time, as any extra eaten is easily going to end up as fat.

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/heybales?month=201401
  • Stephiestephs
    Stephiestephs Posts: 132 Member
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    bmr on your google file is 1475. it may be that i have a lot of belly still from pregnancy and i have to be careful when i am pregnant first one i was on bedrest and this one pretty much no walking, lifting etc. not bedrest but had to be very careful. so i am sure i have lost a ton of muscle mass??

    If your Katch BMR based on decent estimate of BF% is 1475, and by age, weight, height is 1553, then not that bad at all, good job. Katch is usually within 5-7%.

    Now though, you say you are eating 1300-1400 and not losing weight.

    So either your logging is sloppy and you are eating much more than that, and whatever that true higher figure is is really your true TDEE and you have no deficit in place.
    or ....
    Your logging is decent enough, and you have suppressed your body down so bad the 1300-1400 is your TDEE now, and your real BMR is a tad lower.

    If it is the former, then you would just take out some calories from your incorrect 1300-1400 knowing you are actually eating more.
    But if you are not sure you are logging decently, and you do that - you'll just be chasing a falling metabolism right on in to the ground.

    Now, eventually, you can only suppress it so much, couple studies have said 20% max they saw, and eventually if you cut enough you will start losing.

    So up to you to answer - how accurate is your logging?

    You feel confident enough it's accurate enough to eat less and not be crashing your daily burn even more?
    One study showed improvement eating at maintenance after only 3 months, though it was still lower than it could have been if it had not been adapted.
    Another study showed it took upwards of 6 years to recover, in which case finish the weight loss and accept that maintenance eating is going to suck big time for potentially a long time, as any extra eaten is easily going to end up as fat.

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/heybales?month=201401

    i am pretty accurate and honest about my logging. if there are inaccuracies its because i chose inaccurate MFP entries. or times when i have eaten out. last time i was losing at about 1650 cals and incline walking with some weights. so this time around, i was eating at 13-1400 because i wasnt working out. but i guess i should've tried to figure out my bmr from the beginning. i dont want to mess up my metabolism at all. i want to do this right. and i love eating i dont wasnt to end up having to eat next to nothing.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    i am pretty accurate and honest about my logging. if there are inaccuracies its because i chose inaccurate MFP entries. or times when i have eaten out. last time i was losing at about 1650 cals and incline walking with some weights. so this time around, i was eating at 13-1400 because i wasnt working out. but i guess i should've tried to figure out my bmr from the beginning. i dont want to mess up my metabolism at all. i want to do this right. and i love eating i dont wasnt to end up having to eat next to nothing.

    If the glove fits then you must ...... oh wait, wrong situation. ;-)

    It never hurts to go a tad higher to see if some recovery can be had.

    It's either that or cut some calories from what you are eating.
    If an initial loss stops quickly, then you'll know that wasn't the right direction and your body had room to adapt even more, erasing your deficit.
    At which point you could decide to try going down even more. And hope it doesn't happen again or too many times.

    Or, go higher, 100 daily for a week at a time. If truly eating over your TDEE, it would take you 7 weeks to gain 1 lb.
    If anything faster, you were at suppressed TDEE and body finally got to top off some glycogen stores with water.
    Keep heading up weekly, another 100 cal daily, to an estimated TDEE.
    If you gain fast water weight several times, good, that's increased metabolism right there, because that is more LBM. May not be muscle, but managing that extra water in the cells takes energy from the body.
  • Helloitsdan
    Helloitsdan Posts: 5,565 Member
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    i am pretty accurate and honest about my logging. if there are inaccuracies its because i chose inaccurate MFP entries. or times when i have eaten out. last time i was losing at about 1650 cals and incline walking with some weights. so this time around, i was eating at 13-1400 because i wasnt working out. but i guess i should've tried to figure out my bmr from the beginning. i dont want to mess up my metabolism at all. i want to do this right. and i love eating i dont wasnt to end up having to eat next to nothing.

    If the glove fits then you must ...... oh wait, wrong situation. ;-)

    It never hurts to go a tad higher to see if some recovery can be had.

    It's either that or cut some calories from what you are eating.
    If an initial loss stops quickly, then you'll know that wasn't the right direction and your body had room to adapt even more, erasing your deficit.
    At which point you could decide to try going down even more. And hope it doesn't happen again or too many times.

    Or, go higher, 100 daily for a week at a time. If truly eating over your TDEE, it would take you 7 weeks to gain 1 lb.
    If anything faster, you were at suppressed TDEE and body finally got to top off some glycogen stores with water.
    Keep heading up weekly, another 100 cal daily, to an estimated TDEE.
    If you gain fast water weight several times, good, that's increased metabolism right there, because that is more LBM. May not be muscle, but managing that extra water in the cells takes energy from the body.

    I have programs that use this type of adaptation to its advantage for fat loss and muscle gain.
    Patience and a little elbow grease and you'll get strong and lean!
  • Stephiestephs
    Stephiestephs Posts: 132 Member
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    You think I destroyed my metabolism/bmr in the 5 weeks I ate 13-1400 cals post partum?
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    You think I destroyed my metabolism/bmr in the 5 weeks I ate 13-1400 cals post partum?

    What was your body really desiring during that time?

    Do you have good or bad genetics for fast body adapting when it feels stressed?
  • Helloitsdan
    Helloitsdan Posts: 5,565 Member
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    Adaptation takes 3+ weeks so using the word "destroy" is a bit harsh.
    I think Dr Layne Norton says for every month of LCD you should double that in maintenance to "recover".
    Some people diet for years and they come out of it a little leaner....and unable to have kids.
    Yikes!!!!

    How about we all eat in good health and lift and the lean bodies just simply happen!
  • pinkLyfe
    pinkLyfe Posts: 5 Member
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    Following
  • Tasha2121
    Tasha2121 Posts: 3 Member
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    Bump.

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