Low-Carb Help!

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13

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  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    @ chrisdavey

    ???? Really based on what.

    My daily plan is

    Monday - 2 hours of tennis
    Tuesday - 2 hours of tennis
    Wednesday - 1.5 hours of Ju Jitsu
    Thursday - chill out
    Friday - sprint session
    Sunday - weights and a hike in the morning

    Supplementation - natures choice omega 3 oil.

    I don't have any issue with energy. In fact the only time I need to really stock up on carbs is on my sprint session.

    I would suggest getting out more and meeting more people who eat low carb.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,018 Member
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    Eats it up - great pun.

    Hey dude I would hope that anyone following primal would do some background themselves - I know I do.

    Plus, show me a diet or a study group that doesn't cherry pick their facts (or come from a bias side)!! In fact almost everyone I see debating on the MFP forums have their own unshakable (and unmoveable) belief in what's true, based on their own opinions from which they have cherry picked research to support.

    That's why I did a fair bit of researching before choosing the primal.

    Does the vast majority of research, particularly tightly controlled trials in which cals and protein are held constant, show any fat loss advantage for low carb diets? And Sisson's beloved Grok ate a high carb diet in the insidious weight gain range of his curve, oops

    Did you know Sisson calls added sugars poisons but adds them to his own protein powders, whoops again

    A supplement manufacturer using added sugar, what next are you going to suggest he uses bulking agents? A revelation like that would rock the very foundations of my belief system.

    You seem to have a real downer on people suggesting low carb (are you secretly the CEO of Kelloggs) You and erickirb look very similar is this one of those conspiracy thing?????

    Just because low carb doesn't suit you doesn't mean it won't suit others. For example I'm not in to line dancing (its a phobia about tassels sort of thing), but I know loads of people that love it (in fact I think Mark Sissons is big line dancer) and I wouldn't suggest to them not to do just because its not my bag.

    By the way a link about a low carb study showing loss of body fat and maintenance of lean mass.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12077732

    http://www.colorado.edu/intphys/Class/IPHY3700_Greene/pdfs/atkins/Volek_diet.pdf

    So self reported intake and didn't control for protein intake? And done by Volek? lol

    What's next the Phinney fat adaptation studies or maybe the A to Z study? lol

    Have you actually read this report all the way through (I have) at one point they actual mention that they are taking marks protein powder with the added sugar!!!!!

    Thanks for the full report dude, I think it just affirms what I thought I knew.

    If you have any reports which refute the claims that low carb high fat ( with medium protein) promotes body fat loss and maintains lean mass I will be happy to read them.

    Until then maybe ease back on your cursade.
    Wait, of course a medium protein intake promotes fat loss and maintains lean body mass. Sorry I thought your stance that the primal diet was somehow better than everything else. Later. Mark also advocates that most people should add 1`00g's of carbs for every hour of exercise........probably not going to see that repeated in the MDA forums too much.

    Just out of interest how long had you eating following the primal blue print before you realised it wasn't for you. Just confirm in day or weeks?

    Also the primal blue print isn't anti carb.
    Never. I researched it for quite a while, probably 6 months or so, and decided I could adhere to the restrictions for the rest of my life so I though I would do it. During my research I also found that it wasn't necessary for those restrictions. I do folow a lower carb diet, just not one that is prescribed to be the messiah, just kidding. Later.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    The only time I've seen anyone do remotely well long term on a low carb diet in relation to retaining/increasing strength is for those on some additional pharmaceuticals.

    If you are sedentary, have a very low cal target and the majority is taken up by the more important protein and fats then low carb could be a good thing.

    Also, if you are diabetic or insulin resistant lowering carbs can help.

    If you are otherwise healthy, active individual looking to maximize performance then low carb is a dumb idea IMO.

    If you just read taubes, sisson or any other low carb advocates book and blindly believe it then best of luck to you.

    Plus Chris , please answer this question honestly. How long did you do the primal blue print before you realised it wasn't for you?
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    Eats it up - great pun.

    Hey dude I would hope that anyone following primal would do some background themselves - I know I do.

    Plus, show me a diet or a study group that doesn't cherry pick their facts (or come from a bias side)!! In fact almost everyone I see debating on the MFP forums have their own unshakable (and unmoveable) belief in what's true, based on their own opinions from which they have cherry picked research to support.

    That's why I did a fair bit of researching before choosing the primal.

    Does the vast majority of research, particularly tightly controlled trials in which cals and protein are held constant, show any fat loss advantage for low carb diets? And Sisson's beloved Grok ate a high carb diet in the insidious weight gain range of his curve, oops

    Did you know Sisson calls added sugars poisons but adds them to his own protein powders, whoops again

    A supplement manufacturer using added sugar, what next are you going to suggest he uses bulking agents? A revelation like that would rock the very foundations of my belief system.

    You seem to have a real downer on people suggesting low carb (are you secretly the CEO of Kelloggs) You and erickirb look very similar is this one of those conspiracy thing?????

    Just because low carb doesn't suit you doesn't mean it won't suit others. For example I'm not in to line dancing (its a phobia about tassels sort of thing), but I know loads of people that love it (in fact I think Mark Sissons is big line dancer) and I wouldn't suggest to them not to do just because its not my bag.

    By the way a link about a low carb study showing loss of body fat and maintenance of lean mass.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12077732

    http://www.colorado.edu/intphys/Class/IPHY3700_Greene/pdfs/atkins/Volek_diet.pdf

    So self reported intake and didn't control for protein intake? And done by Volek? lol

    What's next the Phinney fat adaptation studies or maybe the A to Z study? lol

    Have you actually read this report all the way through (I have) at one point they actual mention that they are taking marks protein powder with the added sugar!!!!!

    Thanks for the full report dude, I think it just affirms what I thought I knew.

    If you have any reports which refute the claims that low carb high fat ( with medium protein) promotes body fat loss and maintains lean mass I will be happy to read them.

    Until then maybe ease back on your cursade.
    Wait, of course a medium protein intake promotes fat loss and maintains lean body mass. Sorry I thought your stance that the primal diet was somehow better than everything else. Later. Mark also advocates that most people should add 1`00g's of carbs for every hour of exercise........probably not going to see that repeated in the MDA forums too much.

    Just out of interest how long had you eating following the primal blue print before you realised it wasn't for you. Just confirm in day or weeks?

    Also the primal blue print isn't anti carb.
    Never. I researched it for quite a while, probably 6 months or so, and decided I could adhere to the restrictions for the rest of my life so I though I would do it. During my research I also found that it wasn't necessary for those restrictions. I do folow a lower carb diet, just not one that is prescribed to be the messiah, just kidding. Later.

    Just what I thought. Did you also object to the screen of jerry springer the musical?????
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    Also anytime your ready send those studies over that prove the primal blue print doesn't work.????
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    Sisson states here, http://www.marksdailyapple.com/definitive-guide-primal-blueprint/#axzz1paFnnSML
    "Avoid exposure to chemical toxins in your food (pesticides, herbicides, chemicals, etc) and on your skin. But also try to avoid the hidden poisons in foods like sugars, grains, processed foods, trans and hydrogenated fats, and mercury in certain fish."

    Sisson is trying to poison you with his supps according to his own faulty logic
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,018 Member
    Options
    Eats it up - great pun.

    Hey dude I would hope that anyone following primal would do some background themselves - I know I do.

    Plus, show me a diet or a study group that doesn't cherry pick their facts (or come from a bias side)!! In fact almost everyone I see debating on the MFP forums have their own unshakable (and unmoveable) belief in what's true, based on their own opinions from which they have cherry picked research to support.

    That's why I did a fair bit of researching before choosing the primal.

    Does the vast majority of research, particularly tightly controlled trials in which cals and protein are held constant, show any fat loss advantage for low carb diets? And Sisson's beloved Grok ate a high carb diet in the insidious weight gain range of his curve, oops

    Did you know Sisson calls added sugars poisons but adds them to his own protein powders, whoops again

    A supplement manufacturer using added sugar, what next are you going to suggest he uses bulking agents? A revelation like that would rock the very foundations of my belief system.

    You seem to have a real downer on people suggesting low carb (are you secretly the CEO of Kelloggs) You and erickirb look very similar is this one of those conspiracy thing?????

    Just because low carb doesn't suit you doesn't mean it won't suit others. For example I'm not in to line dancing (its a phobia about tassels sort of thing), but I know loads of people that love it (in fact I think Mark Sissons is big line dancer) and I wouldn't suggest to them not to do just because its not my bag.

    By the way a link about a low carb study showing loss of body fat and maintenance of lean mass.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12077732

    http://www.colorado.edu/intphys/Class/IPHY3700_Greene/pdfs/atkins/Volek_diet.pdf

    So self reported intake and didn't control for protein intake? And done by Volek? lol

    What's next the Phinney fat adaptation studies or maybe the A to Z study? lol

    Have you actually read this report all the way through (I have) at one point they actual mention that they are taking marks protein powder with the added sugar!!!!!

    Thanks for the full report dude, I think it just affirms what I thought I knew.

    If you have any reports which refute the claims that low carb high fat ( with medium protein) promotes body fat loss and maintains lean mass I will be happy to read them.

    Until then maybe ease back on your cursade.
    Wait, of course a medium protein intake promotes fat loss and maintains lean body mass. Sorry I thought your stance that the primal diet was somehow better than everything else. Later. Mark also advocates that most people should add 1`00g's of carbs for every hour of exercise........probably not going to see that repeated in the MDA forums too much.

    Just out of interest how long had you eating following the primal blue print before you realised it wasn't for you. Just confirm in day or weeks?

    Also the primal blue print isn't anti carb.
    Never. I researched it for quite a while, probably 6 months or so, and decided I could adhere to the restrictions for the rest of my life so I though I would do it. During my research I also found that it wasn't necessary for those restrictions. I do folow a lower carb diet, just not one that is prescribed to be the messiah, just kidding. Later.

    Just what I thought. Did you also object to the screen of jerry springer the musical?
    You've moved the goal posts a few times from your original remark........so not surprised where this thread is going. Low carb threads generally do. Wait I'm low carb.....lol
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    I don't buy his supps so why would I care. You don't have to buy his supps to eat primal.

    Man you've got issues. Did you order some once and they never turned up.

    If you've for evidence the primal blue print doesn't promote fat loss and maintain lean mass, please send it over.
  • widebride
    widebride Posts: 21
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    A supplement manufacturer using added sugar, what next are you going to suggest he uses bulking agents? A revelation like that would rock the very foundations of my belief system.

    You seem to have a real downer on people suggesting low carb (are you secretly the CEO of Kelloggs) You and erickirb look very similar is this one of those conspiracy thing?????

    Just because low carb doesn't suit you doesn't mean it won't suit others. For example I'm not in to line dancing (its a phobia about tassels sort of thing), but I know loads of people that love it (in fact I think Mark Sissons is big line dancer) and I wouldn't suggest to them not to do just because its not my bag.

    By the way a link about a low carb study showing loss of body fat and maintenance of lean mass.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12077732

    Wow. How can the authors claim that this is an "experimental design" if the subjects self-selected into the test group? A study that lacks random assignment is by definition NOT an experiment.

    Second, 20 subjects? That's a very low sample size.

    Third, the authors talk about the physical activity levels of the test group, but not the control group. How do we know that the physical activity levels of the control group and test group are comparable?
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    I've not moved the goal posts, it's called being open minded. If you see things as just goal posts that's really restrictive.

    Primal blue print works for me and therefore I would think it works for others. But I'm not narrow minded enough to think there is only one answer for everyone.

    You may have another option that works for you and that's great. But your option isn't the be all and end all. Everyone's different.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,018 Member
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    I don't buy his supps so why would I care. You don't have to buy his supps to eat primal.

    Man you've got issues. Did you order some once and they never turned up.

    If you've for evidence the primal blue print doesn't promote fat loss and maintain lean mass, please send it over.
    See goal posts>>>>>>>they went that way. Higher protein has always been advocated......don't know what your going on about anymore. Next thread.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,018 Member
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    I've not moved the goal posts, it's called being open minded. If you see things as just goal posts that's really restrictive.

    Primal blue print works for me and therefore I would think it works for others. But I'm not narrow minded enough to think there is only one answer for everyone.

    You may have another option that works for you and that's great. But your option isn't the be all and end all. Everyone's different.
    Sorry bud, I really don't know what your going on about. Anybody that has success on any diet, would be considered successful.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
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    @ chrisdavey

    ???? Really based on what.

    My daily plan is

    Monday - 2 hours of tennis
    Tuesday - 2 hours of tennis
    Wednesday - 1.5 hours of Ju Jitsu
    Thursday - chill out
    Friday - sprint session
    Sunday - weights and a hike in the morning

    Supplementation - natures choice omega 3 oil.

    I don't have any issue with energy. In fact the only time I need to really stock up on carbs is on my sprint session.

    I would suggest getting out more and meeting more people who eat low carb.

    I've spoken to plenty of people who are low carb. I think it is some sort of cult/religion or something. Trying to force the masses into following it.

    I don't follow any diet including primal blueprint. I just eat a variety of foods that are mostly micronutrient dense and hit macros. Wouldn't you know, if I'm in a deficit, I lose weight and if I'm in a surplus I gain weight. Farkin' amazing!

    If I'm in a deficit, I typically retain strength for the majority of the time (unless cutting period exceeds around 10-12 weeks which is irregular) and when in surplus I've continued to gain strength.

    I maintain BF% of around 10% year round (going as low as 6.3% by Dexa) without having to cut out entire food groups for no reason.

    How do you accurately measure your performance while on your primal diet? How has it progressed over time? How long have you been on it?
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
    Options
    I don't buy his supps so why would I care. You don't have to buy his supps to eat primal.

    Man you've got issues. Did you order some once and they never turned up.

    If you've for evidence the primal blue print doesn't promote fat loss and maintain lean mass, please send it over.
    See goal posts>>>>>>>they went that way. Higher protein has always been advocated......don't know what your going on about anymore. Next thread.

    You guys seem hug up on mark Sissons being the devil. Has he cheated on you or something. My stance is it works. As I've always said it's not for everyone.

    All I'm asking is that you show me proof that the primal blue print doesn't work or get over mark, what ever he's done to you!
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
    Options
    @ chrisdavey

    ???? Really based on what.

    My daily plan is

    Monday - 2 hours of tennis
    Tuesday - 2 hours of tennis
    Wednesday - 1.5 hours of Ju Jitsu
    Thursday - chill out
    Friday - sprint session
    Sunday - weights and a hike in the morning

    Supplementation - natures choice omega 3 oil.

    I don't have any issue with energy. In fact the only time I need to really stock up on carbs is on my sprint session.

    I would suggest getting out more and meeting more people who eat low carb.

    I've spoken to plenty of people who are low carb. I think it is some sort of cult/religion or something. Trying to force the masses into following it.

    I don't follow any diet including primal blueprint. I just eat a variety of foods that are mostly micronutrient dense and hit macros. Wouldn't you know, if I'm in a deficit, I lose weight and if I'm in a surplus I gain weight. Farkin' amazing!

    If I'm in a deficit, I typically retain strength for the majority of the time (unless cutting period exceeds around 10-12 weeks which is irregular) and when in surplus I've continued to gain strength.

    I maintain BF% of around 10% year round (going as low as 6.3% by Dexa) without having to cut out entire food groups for no reason.

    How do you accurately measure your performance while on your primal diet? How has it progressed over time? How long have you been on it?

    Good for you dude,

    Now get on with your life.
  • QuietBloom
    QuietBloom Posts: 5,413 Member
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    Eats it up - great pun.

    Hey dude I would hope that anyone following primal would do some background themselves - I know I do.

    Plus, show me a diet or a study group that doesn't cherry pick their facts (or come from a bias side)!! In fact almost everyone I see debating on the MFP forums have their own unshakable (and unmoveable) belief in what's true, based on their own opinions from which they have cherry picked research to support.

    That's why I did a fair bit of researching before choosing the primal.

    Does the vast majority of research, particularly tightly controlled trials in which cals and protein are held constant, show any fat loss advantage for low carb diets? And Sisson's beloved Grok ate a high carb diet in the insidious weight gain range of his curve, oops

    Did you know Sisson calls added sugars poisons but adds them to his own protein powders, whoops again

    I have his book. He even adds it to his coffee. *shrug* And yeah, Grok definitely ate grains according to archaeological dig sites.
  • sccet
    sccet Posts: 141 Member
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    If one is eating at or near a deficit, and lifting heavy and trying to maintain LBM, doesn't it just make sense to up the protein intake? That, by design, will require a decrease in carbs and/or fat.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    I don't buy his supps so why would I care. You don't have to buy his supps to eat primal.

    Man you've got issues. Did you order some once and they never turned up.

    If you've for evidence the primal blue print doesn't promote fat loss and maintain lean mass, please send it over.
    See goal posts>>>>>>>they went that way. Higher protein has always been advocated......don't know what your going on about anymore. Next thread.

    You guys seem hug up on mark Sissons being the devil. Has he cheated on you or something. My stance is it works. As I've always said it's not for everyone.

    All I'm asking is that you show me proof that the primal blue print doesn't work or get over mark, what ever he's done to you!

    "This is a common thought progression I see around the LC web. Boils down to large numbers of "followers" who default to the notion of "I don't really care how it works so long as it does". This is just fine by me for the individual, but it is not an excuse for an "expert" or anyone seeking to educate people on a healthy diet. "

    http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2010/12/insulin-wars-ii-mark-sisson.html
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    Does the primal blue print work or not. If yes great lets all move on an join the thread like - would you date the person above you ( much more fun than this one I think you would agree). If no yourethe scientist send me the proof for me to read and research.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
    Options
    I don't buy his supps so why would I care. You don't have to buy his supps to eat primal.

    Man you've got issues. Did you order some once and they never turned up.

    If you've for evidence the primal blue print doesn't promote fat loss and maintain lean mass, please send it over.
    See goal posts>>>>>>>they went that way. Higher protein has always been advocated......don't know what your going on about anymore. Next thread.

    You guys seem hug up on mark Sissons being the devil. Has he cheated on you or something. My stance is it works. As I've always said it's not for everyone.

    All I'm asking is that you show me proof that the primal blue print doesn't work or get over mark, what ever he's done to you!

    "This is a common thought progression I see around the LC web. Boils down to large numbers of "followers" who default to the notion of "I don't really care how it works so long as it does". This is just fine by me for the individual, but it is not an excuse for an "expert" or anyone seeking to educate people on a healthy diet. "

    http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2010/12/insulin-wars-ii-mark-sisson.html

    Nice article but want I'm asking for are studies to prove that the primal blue print does not work (marks daily apple is a blog and I'm sure you wouldn't count that as evidence).

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