But I don't want to eat another 800 calories.. :/

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Replies

  • Fithealthyforlife
    Fithealthyforlife Posts: 866 Member
    This thread is better than school. Thanks guys! Muscles are the answer to so many issues. I'm a completely different creature now that I have some.

    Can anyone answer me this? Why does Lyle McDonald advocate low fat when bulking? He may have changed his tune, or not be very highly rated here, but if seem to remember him saying that your excess cals are less likely to go to fat and more likely to go to muscle if there is a higher protein and carb content.

    Is there anything in this? Or is it a way to lull fat phobes like me in to spending money on his diets?

    I'm guessng it's because in order to get sufficient carbs, you have to back off on fat. And carbs are known to be muscle-sparing. That said, most bulking diets push 25-30% fat. I feel pretty good around this level.
  • terizius
    terizius Posts: 425 Member
    Springfield - While the body needs all three macro-nutrients, when trying to build muscle, two things are most important: 1) having the stuff you need to actually build the muscle (protein), and having the stuff you need to fuel the muscle (carbs).

    That's my take on it anyway..
  • terizius
    terizius Posts: 425 Member
    Also, to second what Fit said, I seem to have fallen naturally between that 25-30% range for fat on my current bulk. Even at this level, my BF% increase is almost negligible (with 8lbs gained so far). Granted, I started at a low BF%.

    Lyle actually talked about how when you have less fat, you are less likely to gain fat as you bulk. The more fat you have, the more likely you are to gain fat when bulking. That's why he recommends only bulking to about 15% BF before beginning your cut (not sure what it would be for women.. maybe 25%). After 15%, he feels that the rate of fat gain surpasses muscle gain. In the same vein, if you are over 15%, he recommends cutting to down below that before you start to bulk.
  • Springfield1970
    Springfield1970 Posts: 1,945 Member
    Also, to second what Fit said, I seem to have fallen naturally between that 25-30% range for fat on my current bulk. Even at this level, my BF% increase is almost negligible (with 8lbs gained so far). Granted, I started at a low BF%.

    Lyle actually talked about how when you have less fat, you are less likely to gain fat as you bulk. The more fat you have, the more likely you are to gain fat when bulking. That's why he recommends only bulking to about 15% BF before beginning your cut (not sure what it would be for women.. maybe 25%). After 15%, he feels that the rate of fat gain surpasses muscle gain. In the same vein, if you are over 15%, he recommends cutting to down below that before you start to bulk.

    Thanks! I've been looking for this golden nugget in my cluttered old brain! I knew there was something going on like that and why shorter bulk cycles were what I instinctively wanted to do. I spent about a year buying obsessing on and doing his diets, but have forgotten quite a lot of the info. I'm sure he also mentioned that if you eat less fat when you do a carb refeed, it will have less chance of going to body fat (but I can let that mystery go, it's too against the grain).

    I'm noticing how much my extra muscle and muscle repairing from lifting is just tearing through those calories. I ate like a pig for the last two weeks on holiday and just did minimum cardio, and I think I'm pretty much the same measurements, feels like being 15 again when i worked as a stable hand! No numbers to prove this though.

    Great job so far! Amazing stuff..
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,835 Member

    I'm sure he also mentioned that if you eat less fat when you do a carb refeed, it will have less chance of going to body fat (but I can let that mystery go, it's too against the grain).


    This is very specific to UD2 or other cyclical keto diet where you are fully glycogen depleted. The refeed should still be low in fat if possible as the primary goal is to replenish glycogen stores.

    It's not really relevant to a typical bulking diet though :smile:
  • catchtheislands
    catchtheislands Posts: 25 Member
    I eat every 2 to 3 hours. I aint easy...
    But...
    Milk makes it kind of easy.
    Carbs protein fat and calories.
    Protein shakes with some honey in em

    Brown rice in a rice cooker is pretty easy.
    You can eat on a tub of brown rice all day and that really adds up.

    There I fixed it.


    Old school builders just did a gallon of milk a day.
  • AlongCame_Molly
    AlongCame_Molly Posts: 2,835 Member
    Four tablespoon of peanut butter. Easy.
  • RIGHT?! I dream of having this calorie limit. Haha!
  • Springfield1970
    Springfield1970 Posts: 1,945 Member

    I'm sure he also mentioned that if you eat less fat when you do a carb refeed, it will have less chance of going to body fat (but I can let that mystery go, it's too against the grain).


    This is very specific to UD2 or other cyclical keto diet where you are fully glycogen depleted. The refeed should still be low in fat if possible as the primary goal is to replenish glycogen stores.

    It's not really relevant to a typical bulking diet though :smile:

    Yes, I did UD2 for a few cycles. OMG. Never been through anything as tough as that. The refeed was before AND during the power lifting muscle building period. Therefore I assume it was an excess to a) pump the muscles up with glycogen in preparation for The power lifting part of the week and b) build muscle. Lyle is a crazy genius. This diet was the one where I became convinced of short term bulking. People who hadn't seen me for a week or three would see me and double take, and Saturdays at the gym I was scaring myself with my strength. It was almost unnatural.

    I was just wondering how that is different from the excess carb protein and fat ratios for bulking. UD2 was a successful bulk and cut for me. I wasn't so much a noobie, but maybe more than I thought I was as it had been a year or three since the last lifting period.
  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member

    I'm sure he also mentioned that if you eat less fat when you do a carb refeed, it will have less chance of going to body fat (but I can let that mystery go, it's too against the grain).


    This is very specific to UD2 or other cyclical keto diet where you are fully glycogen depleted. The refeed should still be low in fat if possible as the primary goal is to replenish glycogen stores.

    It's not really relevant to a typical bulking diet though :smile:

    It can be generalized to all refeeds though.

    Refeeds, when used for hormone control when cutting while lean should be as low fat as possible, whether following UD2, a CKD, or just doing something basic like linear cutting w/ weekly refeeds. The same principles apply, you want the fast acting carb jolt (fat interferes with digestion speed) and you are knocking your body temporarily out of the deficit, any available fat will be stored.

    The only reason I can see to go lower fat when bulking is when you're quite far from noob status and your volume work is frightening; that demands a ton of fuel.
  • Wetterdew
    Wetterdew Posts: 142 Member
    I'm going for 3000 calories per day. If I could eat whatever junk food I wanted, it would be heavenly. But trying to eat this much mostly healthy food is indeed exhausting. :/