Going low sugar/low carb!

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  • HappyStack
    HappyStack Posts: 802 Member
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    If you want to follow low carb, yes. Low carb is not necessary for losing weight with PCOS and IR, though, nor is it more effective than a simple calorie controlled diet.

    Particularly if that calorie controlled diet is in tandem with heavy lifting. Low carb (also high-fat) is particularly unhelpful if you're undertaking more than general recreational exercise, as a woman with PCOS and IR should do.

    Reasons for advocating a "low-GI" approach for women with PCOS and IR are simple. Whole grains help with partitioning, blood sugar control, energy and muscle growth, and the fact that simply Googling low-GI and PCOS (as people tend to do) will return a lot of success stories about this method of eating, weight-loss and a reduction in symptoms of PCOS - a huge psychological benefit to someone who will no doubt have been told repeatedly it's going to be extremely difficult for them to lose weight, regain fertility, etc. etc. etc. (add in searches for weight lifting, a higher-protein approach for muscle growth and you're in success-story heaven).

    Anecdote o' the day: I have several copies of very successful low-GI cookbooks, and in every single one there are high-sugar recipes - even Rick Gallop's own recipe book. Including one I'll never forget, a recipe for almond macaroons, which consists solely of an equal amount of ground almonds and golden caster sugar, and egg whites - "low-GI" and good as an occasional treat. Make of that what you will.
  • MelRC117
    MelRC117 Posts: 911 Member
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    I personally don't have PCOS but I do know of people that have cut down their carbs and had success.

    I eat low carb but I do agree...a banana is one of the highest sugar content fruits there are. On the other hand....I ate one nearly everyday when I was doing low carb the first go round but i did low carb to lose weight not for anything specific for medical reasons. If youre trying to avoid the higher amount of sugar I would avoid it for your medical issues. Berries would be a better choice. Also, check your sugar content on your peanut butter.

    I would check to out some of the low carb groups or if their is a group just for those with PCOS.
  • Filmlotus
    Filmlotus Posts: 54 Member
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    Yes, I agree with MeIRC. Bananas can really spike your insulin levels and send your body into anabolism (storing mode) and pair that with grains, then you're putting yourself in a longer storing window than you are burning. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the human body can't burn and store at the same time. Your body needs some time to actually process what you're eating, and a window of time where insulin is low so you can tap into your fat stores. If you keep your insulin levels sustained at a high/moderate level all the day (by eating "healthy" wheat products) then you are constantly in a storing mode where you can be at risk of crashing into a low.

    Ketoers aim to give themselves more windows of catabolism where they have very little insulin, high levels of leptin and plenty of ketones to fuel their body. But please, don't just take my word for it, do some reading or a search on Google or Youtube on low carb and ketogenic diet, you will find a rich foundation of lectures to listen to.

    There is a lot of prejudice against low carb, mainly because people confused ketosis with ketoacidosis, and mistake it for "Fad" or "extreme" when its actually a diet used around the world for hundreds of thousands of years. If anything, a high wheat, gluten and processed diet would be more recent and thus would be more of the fad than low carb.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,986 Member
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    Yes, I agree with MeIRC. Bananas can really spike your insulin levels and send your body into anabolism (storing mode) and pair that with grains, then you're putting yourself in a longer storing window than you are burning. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the human body can't burn and store at the same time. Your body needs some time to actually process what you're eating, and a window of time where insulin is low so you can tap into your fat stores. If you keep your insulin levels sustained at a high/moderate level all the day (by eating "healthy" wheat products) then you are constantly in a storing mode where you can be at risk of crashing into a low.

    Ketoers aim to give themselves more windows of catabolism where they have very little insulin, high levels of leptin and plenty of ketones to fuel their body. But please, don't just take my word for it, do some reading or a search on Google or Youtube on low carb and ketogenic diet, you will find a rich foundation of lectures to listen to.

    There is a lot of prejudice against low carb, mainly because people confused ketosis with ketoacidosis, and mistake it for "Fad" or "extreme" when its actually a diet used around the world for hundreds of thousands of years. If anything, a high wheat, gluten and processed diet would be more recent and thus would be more of the fad than low carb.
    It's still daily caloric balance that dictates fat loss or gain, but there are advantages to low carb with people with "broken" metabolisms like the OP, or satiety reasons for dietary compliance, which is why I consume fewer carbs , but not the very low regime that would initiate ketosis.

    People that are insulin resistant and with PCOS really need to reduce glucose from the blood, and while more complex carbs like grain helps with the insulin spike, it increases the transit time and actually prolongs the insulin response. Anytime we eat carbs and we get what's called an initial insulin response that is basically a duplication of the previous meals response and if that response doesn't remove the glucose fast enough or low enough, we get a secondary insulin response, normally about 1/2 hour later........removing carbs lowers the insulin response going forward because of the lower glycemic load on the body and future events are reduced. Basically it speeds up the repair of receptors making the cells more insulin sensitive......and that's why low carb is beneficial to people with these problems, others, not so much.
  • HappyStack
    HappyStack Posts: 802 Member
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    I am adding a warning to people who might think you have medical credentials.

    You are giving a testimonial.

    What works for you might not work for others.

    Thanks, but I did that myself.

    And nowhere have I said that PCOS has a one-diet-fits-all solution, in fact I am saying otherwise in response to the OP saying since she has PCOS she should low-carb.

    It's good that you read the thread in its entirety and contributed something useful, though. Good job.
  • marjoleina
    marjoleina Posts: 189 Member
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    Bananas have potassium (good for B/P) and Vit B6. And Schauzers love them. Edited to mention I am no Dr.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,986 Member
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    Bananas have potassium (good for B/P) and Vit B6. And Schauzers love them.
    Just found out today my 4 dogs not only love broccoli but banana's too.
  • Filmlotus
    Filmlotus Posts: 54 Member
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    There are plenty of potassium and b vitamins in other low carb food sources too. You don't need to eat a particular food that is bad for your blood sugar just to just a certain vitamin that can be found elsewhere.

    neanderthin - Thanks for that info. Very informative. Yes, caloric balance is still an important factor, but calories are not the entire picture for people with hormonal and metabolic imbalances, that is why I'm trying to say that low carb is better than eating grains and bananas in the attempt of calling it healthy for those with insulin resistance and PCOS.
  • marjoleina
    marjoleina Posts: 189 Member
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    Bananas have potassium (good for B/P) and Vit B6. And Schauzers love them.
    Just found out today my 4 dogs not only love broccoli but banana's too.

    It's fun, I get the banana and the Schnauzer heads to the kitchen and sits patiently and waits for me to put pieces in his bowl.
  • HappyStack
    HappyStack Posts: 802 Member
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    I have a banana almost every day. You can eat them. Really.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,986 Member
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    Bananas have potassium (good for B/P) and Vit B6. And Schauzers love them.
    Just found out today my 4 dogs not only love broccoli but banana's too.

    It's fun, I get the banana and the Schnauzer heads to the kitchen and sits patiently and waits for me to put pieces in his bowl.
    I make my dogs to tricks for treats or they get nothing...lol
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,986 Member
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    I am adding a warning to people who might think you have medical credentials.

    You are giving a testimonial.

    What works for you might not work for others.

    Thanks, but I did that myself.

    And nowhere have I said that PCOS has a one-diet-fits-all solution, in fact I am saying otherwise in response to the OP saying since she has PCOS she should low-carb.

    It's good that you read the thread in its entirety and contributed something useful, though. Good job.

    This is how it's done, and I don't need your approbation:

    http://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/abs/10.2217/whe.12.14

    Evidence-based lifestyle and pharmacological management of infertility in women with polycystic ovary syndrome
    Michael F Costello*1,2 & William L Ledger*1,2
    * Authors for correspondence



    Polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) is the most prevalent endocrine disorder in women of reproductive age and by far the most common cause of anovulatory infertility. Lifestyle change alone, and not in combination with pharmacological ovulation induction such as clomifene citrate or metformin, is generally considered the first-line treatment for the management of infertile anovulatory women with PCOS who are overweight or obese. Clomifene citrate should be considered as a first-line pharmacological therapy to improve fertility outcomes. Second-line medical treatments may include ovulation induction with gonadotropins (in clomifene citrate-resistant or clomifene citrate failure women) or laparoscopic ovarian drilling (in clomifene citrate-resistant women) or possibly with metformin combined with clomifene citrate (in clomifene citrate-resistant women). There is currently insufficient evidence to recommend aromatase inhibitors over that of clomifene citrate in infertile anovulatory women with PCOS in general or specifically in therapy-naive or clomifene citrate-resistant women with PCOS.


    So in the obese, weight loss any way it can be done will probably ameliorate many of the symptoms of PCOS. A specific diet is NOT recognized as being better than any other.
    Dietary RCT might be beneifical to look at in regard to PCOS as opposed to pharma intervention.
  • brock_west_houston
    brock_west_houston Posts: 23 Member
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    Low carb (a large part of which is the Glycemic Index) has been very effective for me, taking me from 240 lbs to the 180s. The South Beach Diet is safe and extremely beneficial, improving not just weight-loss but cardiovascular health as well. Phase 1, which is only two weeks, excludes fruits and grains. No, these are not bad foods and so I understand the reservations many folks have about eliminating them from the diet. However, it is for the first two weeks only, after which you gradually reintroduce them.

    Phase 1 is slightly challenging and very do-able. What's great is this diet lets you eat as much of the foods as you want that are included in Phase 1 (most proteins and nearly all vegetables, satisfying sugar-free concoctions, and low-fat dairy products). It is not very restrictive at all and the many effects of Phase 1 are very beneficial. Your blood chemistry improves, and remarkably, your cravings for sweets and starchy foods dramatically decrease. Progressing through the diet, you find weeks later that you can enjoy a spoonful of dessert and not want more. You learn to be satisfied. Furthermore, there are no setbacks in this diet as in many others. Having a bad day or two has minimal adverse effects and it is easy to bounce back.

    The average weight lost in the first two weeks of the South Beach Diet is around 8 pounds. It is safe too. I have read so many posts lamenting low carb diets and swearing by calorie counting. I can only attest to my personal experience which is this...I have seen dramatic weight loss, especially in body fat, on the South Beach Diet Phase 1 despite eating 10 times a day and generally staying full. Waking up in the middle of the night and enjoying fried eggs because I was hungry or having a cup or two of my favoriet coffee with sugar-free creamer are basically encouraged. Eat when you're hungry, and lose weight!

    So, I am a low carb (not no-carb) advocate. Moving into the second and third (final/maintenance) stages of South Beach introduces virtually all fruits and whole grains. All you have to sacrifice is, basically, crap like donughts and refined pasta. As I said, the occassional cheat won't thwart you. It's a great way to go.
  • HappyStack
    HappyStack Posts: 802 Member
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    This is how it's done, and I don't need your approbation:

    http://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/abs/10.2217/whe.12.14

    (...)

    So in the obese, weight loss any way it can be done will probably ameliorate many of the symptoms of PCOS. A specific diet is NOT recognized as being better than any other.

    Unless you paid for the full study, read it, understood it and it says something different from that abstract, your summation of it is hardly correct.

    It has been known for some time that reduction of body fat in women with PCOS will relieve symptoms... aside from just not wanting to be fat any more, that's kind of a large part of why we do it.
    It is not known what dietary methods of weight loss, if any, are more effective or less effective to achieve weight loss in women with PCOS, and the study you posted does not compare any. If that's "how it's done", I'm confused at what you think the discussion is here.

    Further reading for you, and others, from a well-cited source: http://www.managingpcos.org.au/pcos-evidence-based-guidelines/5-lifestyle-management-in-pcos

    Explains its recommendations here: http://www.managingpcos.org.au/lifestyle-and-pcos/lifestyle-faqs
    And here: http://www.managingpcos.org.au/lifestyle-and-pcos/dietary-approaches

    "Unfortunately, there does not seem to be any one dietary approach that is 'best' for women with PCOS. This means that if you have tried one in the past and did not find it useful for weight loss, there are other options available to try."

    And

    "There are a range of dietary approaches that women with polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) can try for weight management. They involve modifying the amount of type of carbohydrate, protein or fat in your diet. There is limited high quality evidence assessing these diets in PCOS. The research generally shows no differences in weight, reproductive, metabolic (risk for diabetes or heart disease) or psychological (quality of life) outcomes for different types of diets. For this reason, it is recommended that weight management (weight loss or prevention of weight gain) should occur in the setting of healthy food choices."

    I hope that sates your desire for "more valid" sources of information.
  • Whambam087
    Whambam087 Posts: 170
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    MY experience--people will say a calorie is a calorie and that's ultimately what weight loss boils down to. That may be true, but I have had the greatest sucess with weight control and health following a primal diet (It's naturally lower carb because you cut out all the carby grains. I average anywhere from 75-130 depending on the day). The difference is literally between night and day. I feel a whole lot better eating this way for one, but in terms of weight loss it's been helpful because the food is very nutrient dense and satiating. I eat and I feel satisfied and can go many hours without feeling hungry. On top of that I notice when I don't eat the grains (and wheat in particular) I lose my cravings for processed junk food and I have no desire to snack or cheat. So yeah feeling satisfied with the food your eating, not feeling hungry all the time and having no cravings for junk definitely helps with weight loss...a lot.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    I've been doing great the gym and have definitley noticed my body changing and have lost almost 10 pounds in the last couple months. However, I know my big area for opportunity is my diet!!

    Since I have PCOS, I really should be low sugar/low carb anyway. To set myself up for success, this weekend I plan to do some prep cooking! I get Bountiful Baskets (they only come every other week to where I live), so I am going to develop my weekly meals based off what is in my basket. I am going to prepare lunches for the week so I can just grab them in the morning and take them with me.

    For breakfast, instead of coffee or an energy drink and some kind of crap snack, I am going to have some hardboiled eggs that I keep at work and bring a banana or apple and peanut butter, and keep some healthy snacks at work for the mid afternoon slump and before I go to the gym after work. Other than tea, I will only drink water and occasionally milk.

    Any other tips for this low carb and sugar change? What helped other succeed? Any recipes in particular you are fond of?

    Just for snacking try a handful if almonds or other nuts and I really like carrot batons to munch on. Keeps you good between meals.
  • joniobrien
    joniobrien Posts: 2
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    I must say I've enjoyed reading this thread. Thanks for the education. I am most definitely IR and figured that out from an old book called the "The Endocrine Control Diet", Calvin Ezrin and Robert Kowalski. It is basically a keto diet, low carb.

    What helps me stay on track is to treat myself. Some treats I use are sugarless Jello, an egg custard recipe(6eggs, 2cups coconut milk, 1/4 c maple syrup, cinnamon & vanilla. 325 for 1hr in ramekins in pan of water), and a hot chocolate (Large mug of boiled water, 1TBS heaping unsweetened cocoa, 2pkts sweeter, H&H).
    A recipe I use often works for me: Chicken w/Wine - 8 pieces of boneless/skinless chicken thigh, 2T oil, 1T chopped onion, 1T flour, 1/2 C red wine, 1/2 C chicken broth, 1 clove garlic crushed, 1bay leaf, 1/4 ts thyme, 8 small white onions, 1C mushrooms, sliced.
    In a large skillet cook chicken and chopped onion in heated oil until slightly browned. Stir in flour and cook until well browned. Add all the other ingredients. Bring to a boil. Cover. Simmer for 45 minutes, or until meat is tender.
    Oddly, I seem to lose weight after eating that recipee. I would like to find more that do that.
  • PunkyDucky
    PunkyDucky Posts: 283 Member
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    Would the insulin resistance diet help PCOS at all?
    It's not really "low-carb" persay but it does help you eat a variety of carbs (30 grams) per meal linked with (14 grams) of protein.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,986 Member
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    Would the insulin resistance diet help PCOS at all?
    It's not really "low-carb" persay but it does help you eat a variety of carbs (30 grams) per meal linked with (14 grams) of protein.
    Weight loss and exercise with weight resistance and HIIT being the more effective exercises will probably make the biggest difference, not sure about the IR diet, never looked at it.
  • PunkyDucky
    PunkyDucky Posts: 283 Member
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    Would the insulin resistance diet help PCOS at all?
    It's not really "low-carb" persay but it does help you eat a variety of carbs (30 grams) per meal linked with (14 grams) of protein.
    Weight loss and exercise with weight resistance and HIIT being the more effective exercises will probably make the biggest difference, not sure about the IR diet, never looked at it.

    I know that weight loss helps PCOS and i'm pretty good in the fitness area, it's my eating that i am having a hard time getting into especially with PCOS. I figured since this thread was about low carb/GI that perhaps linking carbs with protein could help a woman with PCOS/IR also.

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