Help running faster

24

Replies

  • hilts1969
    hilts1969 Posts: 465 Member
    I'd suggest focusing on endurance first and finishing the C25K. Your pace will improve naturally with time and practice.

    Pace will improve even quicker if she actually run's quicker
  • alathIN
    alathIN Posts: 142 Member
    OP you have obviously run into one of the coaching controversies in running - people who believe in a lot of speed work versus those who do not. There are smart coaches and accomplished athletes on both sides of this debate - and part of the difference comes from speaking to different training goals and different fitness levels. If you're a world-class sprinter, yes, you are probably doing a lot of speed work. If you're running 5Ks 10Ks or marathons, maybe not as much.

    In my multisport group, we do about 80% of our running at a very easy aerobic pace, about 18% slightly harder, and only about 2% speed work - and anyone who is nursing any kind of injury or sore spot skips the speed work entirely.
    This is a group that includes a large number of Boston qualifiers, two guys running in the nationals for olympic distance triathlon, and a woman who qualified for the Ironman world championships in her age group. Obviously none of us are sprinters. Myself, I am much more on the "participation and fitness" end of the spectrum and I do find I get the most benefit from increasing volume at an easy pace.

    This is Bobby McGee, one of the world's leading running coaches, discussing this very issue:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buFPiauA8NA
  • ThickMcRunFast
    ThickMcRunFast Posts: 22,511 Member
    OP you have obviously run into one of the coaching controversies in running - people who believe in a lot of speed work versus those who do not. There are smart coaches and accomplished athletes on both sides of this debate - and part of the difference comes from speaking to different training goals and different fitness levels. If you're a world-class sprinter, yes, you are probably doing a lot of speed work. If you're running 5Ks 10Ks or marathons, maybe not as much.

    In my multisport group, we do about 80% of our running at a very easy aerobic pace, about 18% slightly harder, and only about 2% speed work - and anyone who is nursing any kind of injury or sore spot skips the speed work entirely.
    This is a group that includes a large number of Boston qualifiers, two guys running in the nationals for olympic distance triathlon, and a woman who qualified for the Ironman world championships in her age group. Obviously none of us are sprinters. Myself, I am much more on the "participation and fitness" end of the spectrum and I do find I get the most benefit from increasing volume at an easy pace.

    This is Bobby McGee, one of the world's leading running coaches, discussing this very issue:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buFPiauA8NA

    there is a discussion about how much speed work to do, but by and large, not for beginners. There are all kinds of ways for experienced distance runners to drop their times, but I don't know any coach that would advocate for a beginner to go out and shirk distance training for Yasso 800s or something. It would be a waste of time without the proper aerobic capacity, and would increase the chance of injury

    Sure, once you get up to the level where you can comfortably run 35 miles a week, we can debate how much of your mileage should be devoted to speed, but for someone who is training for their first 5k? That's pretty much a no-brainer on the side of 'run more miles'
  • SonicDeathMonkey80
    SonicDeathMonkey80 Posts: 4,489 Member
    I'd suggest focusing on endurance first and finishing the C25K. Your pace will improve naturally with time and practice.

    Pace will improve even quicker if she actually run's quicker

    Repeat after me: OP is running a 14 minute mile
  • rhondatime2chg
    rhondatime2chg Posts: 92 Member
    Man, I was thinking a 14 minute mile was good. Mine is 15:30 per mile. Just keep it up. You'll get faster. That is what all my runner friends keep telling me.
  • alathIN
    alathIN Posts: 142 Member
    OP you have obviously run into one of the coaching controversies in running - people who believe in a lot of speed work versus those who do not. There are smart coaches and accomplished athletes on both sides of this debate - and part of the difference comes from speaking to different training goals and different fitness levels. If you're a world-class sprinter, yes, you are probably doing a lot of speed work. If you're running 5Ks 10Ks or marathons, maybe not as much.

    In my multisport group, we do about 80% of our running at a very easy aerobic pace, about 18% slightly harder, and only about 2% speed work - and anyone who is nursing any kind of injury or sore spot skips the speed work entirely.
    This is a group that includes a large number of Boston qualifiers, two guys running in the nationals for olympic distance triathlon, and a woman who qualified for the Ironman world championships in her age group. Obviously none of us are sprinters. Myself, I am much more on the "participation and fitness" end of the spectrum and I do find I get the most benefit from increasing volume at an easy pace.

    This is Bobby McGee, one of the world's leading running coaches, discussing this very issue:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buFPiauA8NA

    there is a discussion about how much speed work to do, but by and large, not for beginners. There are all kinds of ways for experienced distance runners to drop their times, but I don't know any coach that would advocate for a beginner to go out and shirk distance training for Yasso 800s or something. It would be a waste of time without the proper aerobic capacity, and would increase the chance of injury

    Sure, once you get up to the level where you can comfortably run 35 miles a week, we can debate how much of your mileage should be devoted to speed, but for someone who is training for their first 5k? That's pretty much a no-brainer on the side of 'run more miles'

    I tend to agree with you - I definitely fall on the "more volume" side of this debate. If you click on the Bobby McGee video, you'll notice the title is "How to become a fast runner: Going fast through going slow" ;-)
  • davert123
    davert123 Posts: 1,568 Member
    ^^^^ yep, forget speed work, it is no good for you at the moment. The way our bodies process energy changes with intensity. What you will need to do right now is strengthen your cardio system. To do this move (run/walk) at a pace that you can just about have a conversation at. If you go faster your muscles will be working in a different mode of operation. Pushing hard in this will just knacker you out and the actual training effect could well reduce while the level of fatigue you are going to feel is going to dramatically increase (i.e. your are getting tired and increasing the time it is going to take before you can effectively train again while getting less benefit than if you just took it easy to start with)

    A great book on this is "total heart rate training" by Joe Friel. You can pick a HRM up off ebay for $20 which will allow you to train yourself optimum.

    Dont forget one important thing though - YOU ARE DOING FABULOUSLY. You really are, most people don't get off the counch, you have grabbed your health by the horns and are riding it so well done for this. Our bodies do take time to adjust, increasing volume while giving yourself plenty of rest is the way forward. When doing this I do a three on one off process (this is called periodization) . I would recommend you increase your time by 10% a week for 3 weeks and then go back 20% in the fourth week. Then start at the volume of the longest week in the 5th week and repeat. Training is all about getting your body to adapt to the stress. As you adapt you will get faster and run longer. Adaptation needs two things though - a stimulus (us moving our *kitten*) and rest (us not moving our assess or reducing the amount of *kitten* movement) I know for me the second part is more difficult than the first part but it is absolutely vital or else you will start to over train (which means you will put a lot of effort in and your body just won't adapt at all) or you will injure yourself.

    Good luck, remember though the most important thing again - you are doing brilliantly - no mater how fast you are doing it you are doing it, you are in the few % of the population that are :-)
  • dawlschic007
    dawlschic007 Posts: 636 Member
    I'd suggest focusing on endurance first and finishing the C25K. Your pace will improve naturally with time and practice.

    Pace will improve even quicker if she actually run's quicker

    Yes, that's true for later on but at the moment she is just learning how to run and is still doing intervals of walking and running. Once she's done with the walking intervals her pace will be a lot better on it's own. Then she can focus on doing speed work.
  • davert123
    davert123 Posts: 1,568 Member
    Also for reference. I am getting fit again now after letting myself go. In September I was running 14 - 15 minute miles. now in Feb I am running 10:20 in my cardio zone (I can go at 9:30 going faster now). Looking back I am knocking off about 20 seconds per mile per month over the last couple of months . This rate of decrease is slowing but it shows me I have a lot of improvement in me. I really recommend you keep a log like this from the start so in 6 months time you can look back and see the great leap in fitness you have achieved by your hard work.
  • hilts1969
    hilts1969 Posts: 465 Member
    I'd suggest focusing on endurance first and finishing the C25K. Your pace will improve naturally with time and practice.

    Pace will improve even quicker if she actually run's quicker

    Repeat after me: OP is running a 14 minute mile

    Doesn't make any difference, you have to train your body and mind to run faster, sure you can plod and then plod further and then a bit further, and then plod a little faster but this isn't the best way to do it, i am not talking usain bolt here, i used to just jog at 11kmh and go a little bit further until i reached 10km, i did this for ages and felt comfortable, one day i just carried on and did over two hours, it is easy to get into a comfort zone and any increase in speed seems hard. if i upped it to 12 kmh it felt too fast

    once i started doing intervals at 14kmh and working my heart rate and legs suddenly 12kmh didn't seem quick anymore and i progressed much quicker

    It is all relevant whether your running a 14 min mile or a 5 min one, pushing your heart rate is key
  • SonicDeathMonkey80
    SonicDeathMonkey80 Posts: 4,489 Member
    I'd suggest focusing on endurance first and finishing the C25K. Your pace will improve naturally with time and practice.

    Pace will improve even quicker if she actually run's quicker

    Repeat after me: OP is running a 14 minute mile

    Doesn't make any difference, you have to train your body and mind to run faster, sure you can plod and then plod further and then a bit further, and then plod a little faster but this isn't the best way to do it, i am not talking usain bolt here, i used to just jog at 11kmh and go a little bit further until i reached 10km, i did this for ages and felt comfortable, one day i just carried on and did over two hours, it is easy to get into a comfort zone and any increase in speed seems hard. if i upped it to 12 kmh it felt too fast

    once i started doing intervals at 14kmh and working my heart rate and legs suddenly 12kmh didn't seem quick anymore and i progressed much quicker

    It is all relevant whether your running a 14 min mile or a 5 min one, pushing your heart rate is key

    Well, you proved my point. Thank you /bow

    (What you unknowingly did was build up your aerobic base by running slow for "ages" and thus able to run faster once you tried)

    *edited to add:
    However, what confuses me is you say the 12kmh felt too fast, yet the 14kmh interval worked? I'm scratching my head and would probably say that you might be an anomaly among runners as your experience flies in the face of years of research, science, and overall proven expertise.
  • To be a runner you don't have to run long, you don't have to run fast, you just have to run !
  • brianpperkins
    brianpperkins Posts: 6,124 Member
    I've found fear of imminent death is a great motivator to run faster.
  • danasings
    danasings Posts: 8,218 Member
    Six months into running and I am JUST now able to run a mile in under 13 minutes...and then run two more.

    It takes time, patience, and running longer distances. Keep running. You'll get there.
  • hilts1969
    hilts1969 Posts: 465 Member
    I'd suggest focusing on endurance first and finishing the C25K. Your pace will improve naturally with time and practice.

    Pace will improve even quicker if she actually run's quicker

    Repeat after me: OP is running a 14 minute mile

    Doesn't make any difference, you have to train your body and mind to run faster, sure you can plod and then plod further and then a bit further, and then plod a little faster but this isn't the best way to do it, i am not talking usain bolt here, i used to just jog at 11kmh and go a little bit further until i reached 10km, i did this for ages and felt comfortable, one day i just carried on and did over two hours, it is easy to get into a comfort zone and any increase in speed seems hard. if i upped it to 12 kmh it felt too fast

    once i started doing intervals at 14kmh and working my heart rate and legs suddenly 12kmh didn't seem quick anymore and i progressed much quicker

    It is all relevant whether your running a 14 min mile or a 5 min one, pushing your heart rate is key

    So let me get this right...........you ran slowly, built your aerobic base and then worked on speed but you're not recommending the same for the OP? SMH


    No what i did was run at the same pace for ages thinking this would make me fitter and faster problem was as i got to 10km i thought i was near my max but as i said one day i just ran for two hours, i was nowhere near my max at 10k pace but unless you run faster at shorter distances your body isn't used to running quicker, no decent running program suggests running at one pace all the time, if you are telling me running at a higher heart rate isn't beneficial then that is your opinion, it would be 100% wrong though
  • SonicDeathMonkey80
    SonicDeathMonkey80 Posts: 4,489 Member
    I'd suggest focusing on endurance first and finishing the C25K. Your pace will improve naturally with time and practice.

    Pace will improve even quicker if she actually run's quicker

    Repeat after me: OP is running a 14 minute mile

    Doesn't make any difference, you have to train your body and mind to run faster, sure you can plod and then plod further and then a bit further, and then plod a little faster but this isn't the best way to do it, i am not talking usain bolt here, i used to just jog at 11kmh and go a little bit further until i reached 10km, i did this for ages and felt comfortable, one day i just carried on and did over two hours, it is easy to get into a comfort zone and any increase in speed seems hard. if i upped it to 12 kmh it felt too fast

    once i started doing intervals at 14kmh and working my heart rate and legs suddenly 12kmh didn't seem quick anymore and i progressed much quicker

    It is all relevant whether your running a 14 min mile or a 5 min one, pushing your heart rate is key

    So let me get this right...........you ran slowly, built your aerobic base and then worked on speed but you're not recommending the same for the OP? SMH


    No what i did was run at the same pace for ages thinking this would make me fitter and faster problem was as i got to 10km i thought i was near my max but as i said one day i just ran for two hours, i was nowhere near my max at 10k pace but unless you run faster at shorter distances your body isn't used to running quicker, no decent running program suggests running at one pace all the time, if you are telling me running at a higher heart rate isn't beneficial then that is your opinion, it would be 100% wrong though

    ICYMI
    So I started running at the end of December. I also quit smoking (cold turkey). I am using a c25k type app from Endomondo, but I am so slow still, at a 14 minute mile. I am well aware that to some people a 14 minute mile is walking, not running, but to me, my legs and lungs it is running. I just want to do it faster. Does anyone have any tips on increasing speed?

    You are correct in your regard, but you also had "ages" of running. She's had ~2 months! The girl needs to run more, plain and simple.
  • BrianSharpe
    BrianSharpe Posts: 9,248 Member
    I'd suggest focusing on endurance first and finishing the C25K. Your pace will improve naturally with time and practice.

    Pace will improve even quicker if she actually run's quicker

    Repeat after me: OP is running a 14 minute mile

    Doesn't make any difference, you have to train your body and mind to run faster, sure you can plod and then plod further and then a bit further, and then plod a little faster but this isn't the best way to do it, i am not talking usain bolt here, i used to just jog at 11kmh and go a little bit further until i reached 10km, i did this for ages and felt comfortable, one day i just carried on and did over two hours, it is easy to get into a comfort zone and any increase in speed seems hard. if i upped it to 12 kmh it felt too fast

    once i started doing intervals at 14kmh and working my heart rate and legs suddenly 12kmh didn't seem quick anymore and i progressed much quicker

    It is all relevant whether your running a 14 min mile or a 5 min one, pushing your heart rate is key

    So let me get this right...........you ran slowly, built your aerobic base and then worked on speed but you're not recommending the same for the OP? SMH


    No what i did was run at the same pace for ages thinking this would make me fitter and faster problem was as i got to 10km i thought i was near my max but as i said one day i just ran for two hours, i was nowhere near my max at 10k pace but unless you run faster at shorter distances your body isn't used to running quicker, no decent running program suggests running at one pace all the time, if you are telling me running at a higher heart rate isn't beneficial then that is your opinion, it would be 100% wrong though

    No one is arguing that there isn't a time and place for speed work but you're suggesting it to someone who has just started running. It seems to have worked for you, and I daresay almost everyone else who runs distances. Perhaps if you removed your head from your *kitten* and actually read what others wrote you would discover that you do not have a monopoly on good advice.
  • Laura732
    Laura732 Posts: 244 Member
    Do some research, read some of the articles about that on Runners World's website. Then follow their advice. If you're just starting out, a 14 minute mile is faster than what I did when I started. When I started, 17's were not unusual. I've been running about 4 years, and I'm finally breaking the 11 min/ mile barrier. In fact, my 'distance' pace, meaning 10k or Half marathon speed is still about 14 min/mile. When you're going long speed, or lack thereof, is perfectly acceptable.
  • AllonsYtotheTardis
    AllonsYtotheTardis Posts: 16,947 Member
    I'd suggest focusing on endurance first and finishing the C25K. Your pace will improve naturally with time and practice.

    Pace will improve even quicker if she actually run's quicker

    Repeat after me: OP is running a 14 minute mile

    Doesn't make any difference, you have to train your body and mind to run faster, sure you can plod and then plod further and then a bit further, and then plod a little faster but this isn't the best way to do it, i am not talking usain bolt here, i used to just jog at 11kmh and go a little bit further until i reached 10km, i did this for ages and felt comfortable, one day i just carried on and did over two hours, it is easy to get into a comfort zone and any increase in speed seems hard. if i upped it to 12 kmh it felt too fast

    once i started doing intervals at 14kmh and working my heart rate and legs suddenly 12kmh didn't seem quick anymore and i progressed much quicker

    It is all relevant whether your running a 14 min mile or a 5 min one, pushing your heart rate is key

    So let me get this right...........you ran slowly, built your aerobic base and then worked on speed but you're not recommending the same for the OP? SMH


    No what i did was run at the same pace for ages thinking this would make me fitter and faster problem was as i got to 10km i thought i was near my max but as i said one day i just ran for two hours, i was nowhere near my max at 10k pace but unless you run faster at shorter distances your body isn't used to running quicker, no decent running program suggests running at one pace all the time, if you are telling me running at a higher heart rate isn't beneficial then that is your opinion, it would be 100% wrong though

    No one is arguing that there isn't a time and place for speed work but you're suggesting it to someone who has just started running. It seems to have worked for you, and I daresay almost everyone else who runs distances. Perhaps if you removed your head from your *kitten* and actually read what others wrote you would discover that you do not have a monopoly on good advice.

    You. I like you.
  • hilts1969
    hilts1969 Posts: 465 Member
    I'd suggest focusing on endurance first and finishing the C25K. Your pace will improve naturally with time and practice.

    Pace will improve even quicker if she actually run's quicker

    Repeat after me: OP is running a 14 minute mile

    Doesn't make any difference, you have to train your body and mind to run faster, sure you can plod and then plod further and then a bit further, and then plod a little faster but this isn't the best way to do it, i am not talking usain bolt here, i used to just jog at 11kmh and go a little bit further until i reached 10km, i did this for ages and felt comfortable, one day i just carried on and did over two hours, it is easy to get into a comfort zone and any increase in speed seems hard. if i upped it to 12 kmh it felt too fast

    once i started doing intervals at 14kmh and working my heart rate and legs suddenly 12kmh didn't seem quick anymore and i progressed much quicker

    It is all relevant whether your running a 14 min mile or a 5 min one, pushing your heart rate is key

    So let me get this right...........you ran slowly, built your aerobic base and then worked on speed but you're not recommending the same for the OP? SMH


    No what i did was run at the same pace for ages thinking this would make me fitter and faster problem was as i got to 10km i thought i was near my max but as i said one day i just ran for two hours, i was nowhere near my max at 10k pace but unless you run faster at shorter distances your body isn't used to running quicker, no decent running program suggests running at one pace all the time, if you are telling me running at a higher heart rate isn't beneficial then that is your opinion, it would be 100% wrong though

    No one is arguing that there isn't a time and place for speed work but you're suggesting it to someone who has just started running. It seems to have worked for you, and I daresay almost everyone else who runs distances. Perhaps if you removed your head from your *kitten* and actually read what others wrote you would discover that you do not have a monopoly on good advice.

    So mr gobby your are saying if this lady who for example who runs 14 min miles mixed it up a bit and ran a little quicker in intervals so she got used to extending her stride, pushing her heart rate and mentality got used to pushing her legs and arms a bit quicker this would not help at all?

    Her question was how can i run quicker not longer, i guarantee that even if she once a week ran 400m and tried to beat her best by one second this would benefit her in the long run, but you know best , you have obviously never heard that working your heart rate is good for your fitness