High Caloric Needs for Weight Loss
Quasita
Posts: 1,530 Member
Okay, so I've been doing this for a while, and seen moderate success, but I figured I would see what people might say if I asked a question...
Basically, I'm tall, fat, and extremely muscle/bone dense. As a result, my basal metabolic rate is estimated from 2440-2750, depending on where you look. After several weeks of struggling with calculators, I bought a BodyMedia unit to get a personalized reading, and used that instead. My TDEE on non-exercise days is usually around 3400 calories.
My issue is that I have a history of eating disorder, and while being in active recovery and therapy, I still struggle to effectively eat enough to make this work. When I started, I found (after doing the math) that my NET would actually end up being negative because my "hunger cues" instruct me to eat far less than I need. When I forced my way to eating a lot more, I started dropping weight fast, and I want to get back there.
When I plugged in my numbers to the scoobycalculator, for example, they suggest that I eat 143g of protein each meal, or 15.8oz of chicken. Even if I break this up into several meals, the only way I can handle this is if I'm CONSTANTLY eating.
So, I'm asking, anyone have good, budget friendly suggestions as to how I could possibly do this? I used to eat almonds *all the time* like we're talking 1-2 servings an hour, but I don't really have the option due to money. Any thoughts on an other options? Preferably foods I can eat room temperature at a desk.
Stats:
31 year old female
6'1"
438 (today, could change soon, detoxing from major cortisol overload)
Taking metformin for anti-androgen therapy, so cannot handle huge levels of sugar
Need cheap as possible. Any help would be wonderful!
Basically, I'm tall, fat, and extremely muscle/bone dense. As a result, my basal metabolic rate is estimated from 2440-2750, depending on where you look. After several weeks of struggling with calculators, I bought a BodyMedia unit to get a personalized reading, and used that instead. My TDEE on non-exercise days is usually around 3400 calories.
My issue is that I have a history of eating disorder, and while being in active recovery and therapy, I still struggle to effectively eat enough to make this work. When I started, I found (after doing the math) that my NET would actually end up being negative because my "hunger cues" instruct me to eat far less than I need. When I forced my way to eating a lot more, I started dropping weight fast, and I want to get back there.
When I plugged in my numbers to the scoobycalculator, for example, they suggest that I eat 143g of protein each meal, or 15.8oz of chicken. Even if I break this up into several meals, the only way I can handle this is if I'm CONSTANTLY eating.
So, I'm asking, anyone have good, budget friendly suggestions as to how I could possibly do this? I used to eat almonds *all the time* like we're talking 1-2 servings an hour, but I don't really have the option due to money. Any thoughts on an other options? Preferably foods I can eat room temperature at a desk.
Stats:
31 year old female
6'1"
438 (today, could change soon, detoxing from major cortisol overload)
Taking metformin for anti-androgen therapy, so cannot handle huge levels of sugar
Need cheap as possible. Any help would be wonderful!
0
Replies
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I use Protica Protein products. You can get them on clearance sometimes on Lucky Vitamin. Their Protein Gem gelatin is 25 gm of protein in 6 oz of gelatin. I think it has under 200 calories so that might not help you. Right now the orange pineapple is $1.99 for 3.0
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Am I reading your post correctly? You are saying 143g of protein each meal? So 3 meals would be around 430g of protein in a day. Extreme athletes and bodybuilders don't require that much protein a day. I think you may have miscalculated something. That's around 1700 calories a day in protein alone. Something is not correct.
Edited... Actually with your stats those types of calculators are going to be highly inaccurate. If you look they will probably have you at a negative on carbs as well. The reason behind this is they will calculate everything off of your protein requirement which will be greatly inflated if going by your total body weight. You should use your target goal weight to calculate protein requirements. then all the other macros will fall into line.0 -
As a result, my basal metabolic rate is estimated from 2440-2750, depending on where you look.
i'm a 6'1" male with a wide frame and even my BMR is only 1900ish, that is almost certainly a HUGE overestimate of your BMR.0 -
Have you spoken to a doctor about what your calorie intake should be? I don't believe there's any hard evidence suggesting that you HAVE to eat over your BMR. This is definitely not correct for someone who is morbidly obese. Due to your current weight your body can handle a much bigger deficit than someone with just 20lbs to lose. If you are burning 3400 calories a day, I'd suggest shooting for an even 2000 or 3000, with 150g of protein a day. Protein powders are a good affordable protein source, as are eggs, tuna, chicken thighs, and ground beef.0
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As a result, my basal metabolic rate is estimated from 2440-2750, depending on where you look.
i'm a 6'1" male with a wide frame and even my BMR is only 1900ish, that is almost certainly a HUGE overestimate of your BMR.
It's not.
And if it is, then everyone posting to all these threads to rely on the scooby to tell people what to shoot for should stop. Why? because they estimate my BMR at 2754. My BodyMedia Unit is what I go by personally.
The default in their calculator is a high protein diet. I readjusted mine to be 45% of calories from protein, which results in 110g per meal if I eat 3 meals.
My burns when 100% monitored result in a TDEE of about 3400 calories, and if I do my exercise the way that I like to, my days are over 5k.0 -
As a result, my basal metabolic rate is estimated from 2440-2750, depending on where you look.
i'm a 6'1" male with a wide frame and even my BMR is only 1900ish, that is almost certainly a HUGE overestimate of your BMR.
It's not.
And if it is, then everyone posting to all these threads to rely on the scooby to tell people what to shoot for should stop. Why? because they estimate my BMR at 2754. My BodyMedia Unit is what I go by personally.
You're using Scooby wrong. It's calculations don't apply to obese bodies, and has been said on MFP hundreds if not thousands of times. BodyMedia is just as inaccurate, because it does the same calculations.
Your actual BMR is going to be 700-1000 calories lower than you're currently using. Yes, I know, it sucks. But what can you do, that's the universe we live in.
Good luck!0 -
Have you spoken to a doctor about what your calorie intake should be? I don't believe there's any hard evidence suggesting that you HAVE to eat over your BMR. This is definitely not correct for someone who is morbidly obese. Due to your current weight your body can handle a much bigger deficit than someone with just 20lbs to lose. If you are burning 3400 calories a day, I'd suggest shooting for an even 2000 or 3000, with 150g of protein a day. Protein powders are a good affordable protein source, as are eggs, tuna, chicken thighs, and ground beef.
My current goals are set as recommended by my monitors and have been reviewed and approved by my physicians. I'm not asking for deficit advice, I'm asking for high calorie nutrient dense but budget friendly options.
The most successful weightloss I've had to date was while working out and eating about 3500-4000 a day.
Just imagine I'm a skinny person trying to bulk if that makes people feel better.0 -
Wow, with so many people here that like to speak up on other threads, I'm surprised I haven't gotten anyone yet...
Here, let me help out: AHEM. WHY DON'T YOU TRY TAKING RASPBERRY KETONES??
That should bring some responses.
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As a result, my basal metabolic rate is estimated from 2440-2750, depending on where you look.
i'm a 6'1" male with a wide frame and even my BMR is only 1900ish, that is almost certainly a HUGE overestimate of your BMR.
It's not.
And if it is, then everyone posting to all these threads to rely on the scooby to tell people what to shoot for should stop. Why? because they estimate my BMR at 2754. My BodyMedia Unit is what I go by personally.
You're using Scooby wrong. It's calculations don't apply to obese bodies, and has been said on MFP hundreds if not thousands of times. BodyMedia is just as inaccurate, because it does the same calculations.
Your actual BMR is going to be 700-1000 calories lower than you're currently using.
Yes, I know, it sucks. But what can you do, that's the universe we live in.
Good luck!
BodyMedia doesn't do the same calculations actually. Do you even know how it works?
BMFL estimates my BMR significantly lower than the calculators based on the burns it's tracked for me, which is why I use it as opposed to the calculators, and tell anyone of significant size they are better off.
Editing to clarify: BMFL estimated my BMR at 2330. That is what I go by. I don't consider 2750 to be a huge overestimation of this.
I'm not looking for help on deficits. I know what I need to eat. I have my goals, I need help reaching them.
I also never said I was personally using that calculator as a guide. I gave an example. I think the calculators are a gross over-generalization of a complex situation, and if you're serious about the situation, you learn what to invest in. I've done extremely well using my BMFL numbers, which are ALWAYS "wrong" compared to what the people here on this site tell me.
I've just asked for help finding foods that will help me hit high protein goals. That's all. I've got the science part of it figured out.0 -
The biggest thing I'll say is to look in the reduced produce/meat section of your local grocery store. Freeze what you can't/won't eat right away. I know that's not really "Calorie dense," but it should help with the overall food costs.0
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what happens if you dont eat that many calories?0
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How do you feel about peanut butter? Inexpensive. Delicious. Packed with calories and some protein to boot. (Natural is first choice...) Can be eaten on apples, carrots, celery, hell I will eat it with a spoon.0
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what happens if you dont eat that many calories?
I don't lose. Plain and simple.
As I stated in my post, I'm in recovery. My metabolic processes have been negatively impacted as such, and I don't really have the option of fasting or drastically undereating. It's already been observed that it quickly turns for the worse. When I started at MFP and stuck the idea that I didn't need to eat my exercise calories because I was so fat, I lost the water weight and then stalled. After several weeks, we did more testing, which showed I'd relapsed into the starved mode I was in during anorexia days.
I had to refeed to more than twice what I was intuitively eating, and then I started dropping 4-7 pounds a week.0 -
Am I reading your post correctly? You are saying 143g of protein each meal? So 3 meals would be around 430g of protein in a day. Extreme athletes and bodybuilders don't require that much protein a day. I think you may have miscalculated something. That's around 1700 calories a day in protein alone. Something is not correct.
This.
The often used rule of thumb is around 0.8 g protein per lb of total mass. But with a mass of 400+ lbs, you are going to be throwing that guideline off. So maybe go with 1.0 g per lb of lean body mass, or 1 g/lb target weight. Somewhere around 150-200 g of protein per day would be plenty.
So, decide what your overall calorie intake should be (TDEE - 20% if you are big). Set the protein based on grams, and see what that gives you as a % of overall. Don't worry if it is 10% or 45%. Add some fat (~0.4 g/lb LBM), and then fill in the rest with carbs.0 -
Trial and error is the best way to calculate what your body needs. Set your calories to a number, try it for a few weeks, and if it doesn't work, adjust.0
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I've found that if I buy a flat of chicken breasts and bake them all at once, seasoned with only some olive oil and basic spices, they are easy to throw in a lunch in any number of forms. I realize that's a lot of chicken for you to eat, and it's not calorie-dense, but it is protein-dense.
Out of curiosity, you said you had run all of these numbers by your doctors, which is awesome. I've been a bit concerned, myself, about overdoing it on the protein due to the effects a super high-protein diet can have on the kidneys. Almonds, too, in large numbers, can cause some issues due to high levels of Vitamin E. My doctor insisted on checking my kidneys before agreeing that my protein shakes and creatine were a good idea, for example, and I've never even had kidney issues before. You may have already covered all this with your doctor, since it sounds like you're on top of your stuff, but just some food for thought in case you haven't. If you're able to get your hands on a variety of the types of foods you're looking for, the more variety you can get, the better! Best of luck to you.0 -
Eggs and egg whites.
Canned tuna, salmon, and chicken
Discounted meat, as another poster said.
Buy regular lean meat in bulk and freeze.0 -
Have you spoken to a doctor about what your calorie intake should be? I don't believe there's any hard evidence suggesting that you HAVE to eat over your BMR. This is definitely not correct for someone who is morbidly obese. Due to your current weight your body can handle a much bigger deficit than someone with just 20lbs to lose. If you are burning 3400 calories a day, I'd suggest shooting for an even 2000 or 3000, with 150g of protein a day. Protein powders are a good affordable protein source, as are eggs, tuna, chicken thighs, and ground beef.
quoting for emphasis0 -
Am I reading your post correctly? You are saying 143g of protein each meal? So 3 meals would be around 430g of protein in a day. Extreme athletes and bodybuilders don't require that much protein a day. I think you may have miscalculated something. That's around 1700 calories a day in protein alone. Something is not correct.
This.
The often used rule of thumb is around 0.8 g protein per lb of total mass. But with a mass of 400+ lbs, you are going to be throwing that guideline off. So maybe go with 1.0 g per lb of lean body mass, or 1 g/lb target weight. Somewhere around 150-200 g of protein per day would be plenty.
So, decide what your overall calorie intake should be (TDEE - 20% if you are big). Set the protein based on grams, and see what that gives you as a % of overall. Don't worry if it is 10% or 45%. Add some fat (~0.4 g/lb LBM), and then fill in the rest with carbs.
I wish people would actually read what I'm asking for... My protein goal is currently 240g. I was just commenting on scooby calculations and their ridiculousness when it came to trying to make a plan.0 -
what happens if you dont eat that many calories?
I don't lose. Plain and simple.
As I stated in my post, I'm in recovery. My metabolic processes have been negatively impacted as such, and I don't really have the option of fasting or drastically undereating. It's already been observed that it quickly turns for the worse. When I started at MFP and stuck the idea that I didn't need to eat my exercise calories because I was so fat, I lost the water weight and then stalled. After several weeks, we did more testing, which showed I'd relapsed into the starved mode I was in during anorexia days.
I had to refeed to more than twice what I was intuitively eating, and then I started dropping 4-7 pounds a week.
Horray, really, to have figured that out without wasting time vastly undereating.
But I would agree with comment above on protein amounts. Unless that excess protein just helps with the weight loss better, you'll have to balance ability and costs with effect.
And actually, the BodyMedia does calculate a BMR figure first from normal gender, age, weight, height. Their FAQ says what formula they use, close to Mifflin though.
But then that info goes to table to say how much heat is therefore expected to be seen from the heat sensor at night during sleep.
That is compared, and it'll start adjusting that BMR figure for where the heat really is.
And several things can throw off that heat figure, but probably not by that much. But it can only seem to adjust so far I've found from informal surveys on MFP.
But then again, results trump estimates - so keep heading on up.
I would say once you have a month of loss, compare what you ate (if decently accurate) added with what you lost, to see what the real TDEE must have been.
Then see what BMF said the TDEE was during that time.0 -
I've found that if I buy a flat of chicken breasts and bake them all at once, seasoned with only some olive oil and basic spices, they are easy to throw in a lunch in any number of forms. I realize that's a lot of chicken for you to eat, and it's not calorie-dense, but it is protein-dense.
Out of curiosity, you said you had run all of these numbers by your doctors, which is awesome. I've been a bit concerned, myself, about overdoing it on the protein due to the effects a super high-protein diet can have on the kidneys. Almonds, too, in large numbers, can cause some issues due to high levels of Vitamin E. My doctor insisted on checking my kidneys before agreeing that my protein shakes and creatine were a good idea, for example, and I've never even had kidney issues before. You may have already covered all this with your doctor, since it sounds like you're on top of your stuff, but just some food for thought in case you haven't. If you're able to get your hands on a variety of the types of foods you're looking for, the more variety you can get, the better! Best of luck to you.
Yeah, I've had function checks as well as ultrasounds of the kidneys. I drink my water in 3 liter bottles. 240g of protein isn't very excessive for me because of my body composition. We're not even trying to get me down into the "healthy" range for my height (140-185lbs) because it would require significant muscle breakdown to get there.0 -
what happens if you dont eat that many calories?
I don't lose. Plain and simple.
As I stated in my post, I'm in recovery. My metabolic processes have been negatively impacted as such, and I don't really have the option of fasting or drastically undereating. It's already been observed that it quickly turns for the worse. When I started at MFP and stuck the idea that I didn't need to eat my exercise calories because I was so fat, I lost the water weight and then stalled. After several weeks, we did more testing, which showed I'd relapsed into the starved mode I was in during anorexia days.
I had to refeed to more than twice what I was intuitively eating, and then I started dropping 4-7 pounds a week.
Horray, really, to have figured that out without wasting time vastly undereating.
But I would agree with comment above on protein amounts. Unless that excess protein just helps with the weight loss better, you'll have to balance ability and costs with effect.
And actually, the BodyMedia does calculate a BMR figure first from normal gender, age, weight, height. Their FAQ says what formula they use, close to Mifflin though.
But then that info goes to table to say how much heat is therefore expected to be seen from the heat sensor at night during sleep.
That is compared, and it'll start adjusting that BMR figure for where the heat really is.
And several things can throw off that heat figure, but probably not by that much. But it can only seem to adjust so far I've found from informal surveys on MFP.
But then again, results trump estimates - so keep heading on up.
I would say once you have a month of loss, compare what you ate (if decently accurate) added with what you lost, to see what the real TDEE must have been.
Then see what BMF said the TDEE was during that time.
Right, the default is such, but then it monitors and adjusts over several days. Mine significantly changed. Following their numbers made the pounds drop off.
Since then, I've lost about 1/3 of my income, so I am just trying to get back to following the numbers within my cost abilities. I don't expect people to understand what it's like to be a dinosaur-sized woman.0 -
So you are getting irritated that people are actually trying to help you rather than simply, blindly answering your question?
Calorie dense foods:
High fat dairy - whole milk, cream, butter. When my daugther was underweight the doctor suggested adding half&half to her cereal, and milk (she didn't like it).
High fat meat - steak, ground beef, etc.
Nuts & peanut butter
Protein shakes with double scoops, bananas and sugar added.
Oatmeal w/ nuts, sugar, honey, agave nectar, etc.0 -
Pizza?
Ground beef?0 -
So you are getting irritated that people are actually trying to help you rather than simply, blindly answering your question?
I think it's that people aren't actually reading the thread. She's had issues and is working with her doctors, so she already knows her Caloric needs. Yet, people keep trying to give her advice in finding how many Calories she needs. That step is done.0 -
So you are getting irritated that people are actually trying to help you rather than simply, blindly answering your question?
Calorie dense foods:
High fat dairy - whole milk, cream, butter. When my daugther was underweight the doctor suggested adding half&half to her cereal, and milk (she didn't like it).
High fat meat - steak, ground beef, etc.
Nuts & peanut butter
Protein shakes with double scoops, bananas and sugar added.
Oatmeal w/ nuts, sugar, honey, agave nectar, etc.
I'm not irritated by the attempts to help. I just don't need lectures about my numbers. I'm not asking for it, I'm not concerned about it, so the assumption that I somehow don't have a handle on it when I have had not only great success (and kept it off eating 4k+) but to not even bother to answer what I asked in the first place are pretty bothersome.
I've learned very quickly in these forums that it's not the place to come for actual advice on the numbers anyway. I just need high calorie, low sugar foods that I can afford.0 -
as for "eating all day"
yes.
it happens.
if that's what it takes for you to get to your goal- get used to the idea of getting food in however you can- whenever you can.
This is one reason body builders/people bulking eat a lot through out the day- because it's down right hard to eat 1000 calorie meals 3 times a day- day in and day out. We graze because that's the best way to get the food in- it's normal.
milk
butter
peanut butter
chocolate
yogurt +_ protein
fruit
beer
oatmeal
pizza
pasta
lasagna
trail mix0 -
So you are getting irritated that people are actually trying to help you rather than simply, blindly answering your question?
I think it's that people aren't actually reading the thread. She's had issues and is working with her doctors, so she already knows her Caloric needs. Yet, people keep trying to give her advice in finding how many Calories she needs. That step is done.
Thank you. Much succinct, better than I did
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I've learned very quickly in these forums that it's not the place to come for actual advice on the numbers anyway. I just need high calorie, low sugar foods that I can afford.
I disagree, this is a great place to come for numbers if you need help with them so long as people are willing to listen to the answers. It is only not a good place to come if you don't want to hear the truth.
I know numbers aren't relevant to you in this post. I'm just saying many people on here know what they're talking about. Tried and tested.0
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