High Caloric Needs for Weight Loss
Replies
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Am I reading your post correctly? You are saying 143g of protein each meal? So 3 meals would be around 430g of protein in a day. Extreme athletes and bodybuilders don't require that much protein a day. I think you may have miscalculated something. That's around 1700 calories a day in protein alone. Something is not correct.
This.
The often used rule of thumb is around 0.8 g protein per lb of total mass. But with a mass of 400+ lbs, you are going to be throwing that guideline off. So maybe go with 1.0 g per lb of lean body mass, or 1 g/lb target weight. Somewhere around 150-200 g of protein per day would be plenty.
So, decide what your overall calorie intake should be (TDEE - 20% if you are big). Set the protein based on grams, and see what that gives you as a % of overall. Don't worry if it is 10% or 45%. Add some fat (~0.4 g/lb LBM), and then fill in the rest with carbs.
I wish people would actually read what I'm asking for... My protein goal is currently 240g. I was just commenting on scooby calculations and their ridiculousness when it came to trying to make a plan.
Sorry if I misunderstood. The OP read as if you were shooting for (3 * 143 = 429 g) of protein a day, which is excessive. As you've now clarified it to 240 g per day, that's still high, but achievable. We were trying to help by pointing out you didn't need 400 g, but I guess you've figured that out!
And yes, calculators are going to be estimates based on populations. There will always be outliers.0 -
If you didn't want them to comment about your numbers, you shouldn't have shared them. And in case you were wondering, I'm also of the mindset that you would have more success with a larger deficit at this point due to your size. :bigsmile:
Poultry, eggs, canned tuna, higher fat content ground beef, protein powder, non-fat milk, greek yogurt, etc are all pretty cheap protein sources. Meats are cheapest if you butcher yourself, like a whole turkey or chicken. Watch for sales on proteins and buy when things are on sale and freeze.0 -
When I'm on a tight budget, I have to plan meals around what is on sale. It differs from week to week. When you get a good deal on ground beef, buy a bunch of it. You can make meatloaf in muffin tins and have grab-and-go protein.
Trail mix (my nemesis) is very calorie dense but high in fat. I didn't see a reference to needing more fat in your posts. But it makes the calorie count go up fast.0 -
How do you feel about peanut butter? Inexpensive. Delicious. Packed with calories and some protein to boot. (Natural is first choice...) Can be eaten on apples, carrots, celery, hell I will eat it with a spoon.
QFT.0 -
So you are getting irritated that people are actually trying to help you rather than simply, blindly answering your question?
Calorie dense foods:
High fat dairy - whole milk, cream, butter. When my daugther was underweight the doctor suggested adding half&half to her cereal, and milk (she didn't like it).
High fat meat - steak, ground beef, etc.
Nuts & peanut butter
Protein shakes with double scoops, bananas and sugar added.
Oatmeal w/ nuts, sugar, honey, agave nectar, etc.
I'm not irritated by the attempts to help. I just don't need lectures about my numbers. I'm not asking for it, I'm not concerned about it, so the assumption that I somehow don't have a handle on it when I have had not only great success (and kept it off eating 4k+) but to not even bother to answer what I asked in the first place are pretty bothersome.
I've learned very quickly in these forums that it's not the place to come for actual advice on the numbers anyway. I just need high calorie, low sugar foods that I can afford.
then perhaps you should do some research on your own, elsewhere.0 -
Am I reading your post correctly? You are saying 143g of protein each meal? So 3 meals would be around 430g of protein in a day. Extreme athletes and bodybuilders don't require that much protein a day. I think you may have miscalculated something. That's around 1700 calories a day in protein alone. Something is not correct.
This.
The often used rule of thumb is around 0.8 g protein per lb of total mass. But with a mass of 400+ lbs, you are going to be throwing that guideline off. So maybe go with 1.0 g per lb of lean body mass, or 1 g/lb target weight. Somewhere around 150-200 g of protein per day would be plenty.
So, decide what your overall calorie intake should be (TDEE - 20% if you are big). Set the protein based on grams, and see what that gives you as a % of overall. Don't worry if it is 10% or 45%. Add some fat (~0.4 g/lb LBM), and then fill in the rest with carbs.
I wish people would actually read what I'm asking for... My protein goal is currently 240g. I was just commenting on scooby calculations and their ridiculousness when it came to trying to make a plan.
Sorry if I misunderstood. The OP read as if you were shooting for (3 * 143 = 429 g) of protein a day, which is excessive. As you've now clarified it to 240 g per day, that's still high, but achievable. We were trying to help by pointing out you didn't need 400 g, but I guess you've figured that out!
And yes, calculators are going to be estimates based on populations. There will always be outliers.
I'll admit it wasn't very clear, looking back. I was mentioning it more as a ridiculous goal that seems completely un-achievable to me. I understand the comments about the protein.
Lots of people like to assume (incorrectly so) that being over 400lbs means you're a beach ball of fat and have little muscle. I'm definitely the opposite. Visual estimates of my weight are around 265 most of the time. Now, that doesn't mean much, I realize, I'm just trying to say that I'm not a blob of fat, I'm very dense and heavy person and naturally high athletic. The 240g goal to me seems pretty reasonable in that light...
Admittedly, my goals right now are more focused on getting vitamins rather than strictly macros, but I still need to infuse more calories. It's been hard, and coming out of surgery where they severed my abdominals, I'm still repairing muscle like crazy, while picking back up into work outs.0 -
Garbanzo beans (chickpeas)...you can roast them in the oven coated with different spices and use them as something to munch on at work.
There are recipes on line or you can buy them already roasted...I think.
Protein...15g per one cup serving according to...
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4326/20 -
Garbanzo beans (chickpeas)...you can roast them in the oven coated with different spices and use them as something to munch on at work.
There are recipes on line or you can buy them already roasted...I think.
Protein...15g per one cup serving according to...
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4326/2
That sounds super good, thanks!!!0 -
make your own trail mix and granola bars. recipes abound on the internets. you can tailor them to what you like and have on hand. baked oatmeal is awesome, again tailored to what you like and have on hand. i know almonds can be expensive, i'm addicted to them. i find they're a bit cheaper in the bulk section of my grocery store though. maybe try looking there. or places like costco where you can get giant tubs of them. it might be a bigger cost upfront, but the price per pound might be cheaper. and yogurt all the things!0
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4-7 lbs lost weekly when eating enough.
I'd suggest that is rather good.0 -
One cup of cooked quinoa provides about 18 grams of protein.
I have made quinoa burgers mixed with zucchini...spinach...or whatever other vegetables that you like...just make sure that you squeeze the water out of them.
You will find lots of recipes online.0 -
My issue is that I have a history of eating disorder, and while being in active recovery and therapy, I still struggle to effectively eat enough to make this work. When I started, I found (after doing the math) that my NET would actually end up being negative because my "hunger cues" instruct me to eat far less than I need. When I forced my way to eating a lot more, I started dropping weight fast, and I want to get back there.
When I plugged in my numbers to the scoobycalculator, for example, they suggest that I eat 143g of protein each meal, or 15.8oz of chicken. Even if I break this up into several meals, the only way I can handle this is if I'm CONSTANTLY eating.
Let me see if I understand this correctly: You are saying that when you eat following your hunger cues, you eat less than what scoobycalculator tells you. And this results in not losing weight, so you want to eat more, in order to lose? And that drs are in agreement with this plan? Not needing more nutrients in general to be healthy, but needing to eat more calories, in order to lose? Or just more protein to build muscle? And if this is coming from a dr, why isn't there a reference to a specialist with diet instructions?0 -
Garbanzo beans (chickpeas)...you can roast them in the oven coated with different spices and use them as something to munch on at work.
There are recipes on line or you can buy them already roasted...I think.
Protein...15g per one cup serving according to...
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4326/2
That sounds super good, thanks!!!
From my experience...cut the cooking time down...some of mine turned out like rocks! Start checking half way through.0 -
My issue is that I have a history of eating disorder, and while being in active recovery and therapy, I still struggle to effectively eat enough to make this work. When I started, I found (after doing the math) that my NET would actually end up being negative because my "hunger cues" instruct me to eat far less than I need. When I forced my way to eating a lot more, I started dropping weight fast, and I want to get back there.
When I plugged in my numbers to the scoobycalculator, for example, they suggest that I eat 143g of protein each meal, or 15.8oz of chicken. Even if I break this up into several meals, the only way I can handle this is if I'm CONSTANTLY eating.
Let me see if I understand this correctly: You are saying that when you eat following your hunger cues, you eat less than what scoobycalculator tells you. And this results in not losing weight, so you want to eat more, in order to lose? And that drs are in agreement with this plan? Not needing more nutrients in general to be healthy, but needing to eat more calories, in order to lose? Or just more protein to build muscle? And if this is coming from a dr, why isn't there a reference to a specialist with diet instructions?
If I eat following hunger cues, I'll eat about 900 calories a day most days, if that. I haven't eaten by cue for over a decade.
My doctors are in agreement that I need to eat more than that :P Since this is not a post about ED recovery, but rather requesting suggestions, I didn't go into my treatment.
I'm at a point where we have calories, macros, and vitamin goals set. I don't see where the problem is?0 -
I am not saying there is a problem, I am trying to understand what the exact goal is, do not misunderstand me. Since you are recovering from an eating disorder and you mention health issues, why isn't there at least a draft plan about what you should be eating, by your dr, or a reference to a specialist on nutrition? I mean, sure we can all make suggestions based on what we like to eat that has lots of proteins, but are you sure it will be safe in your case? It sounds crazy to me that a dr would let you do this with no guidance.0
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Wow, with so many people here that like to speak up on other threads, I'm surprised I haven't gotten anyone yet...
I think the problem is (besides maybe a little impatience since it was less than a half hour) that it's a tricky problem. Your calorie needs are high, which means that food costs will be high. Period. (While there are likely many on MFP who can provide some tips, a frugal grocery shopping board might yield better results.)
However, one question: 143g protein per meal sounds...very high. Are you sure your numbers are right? Knocking that down should help with the cost as (as you know) protein is the most expensive macro.
As for room temp protein sources, I love beef (and deer) jerky. (My apologies if I missed where you said you were veg*n.) Smelly stuff, but so delicious. Reminds me...I need to make a batch soon.
Good luck.
(And now to catch up on the thread and find that others have given much better advice already...)
ETA: I see my protein question was addressed.
Also, while I don't know how budget-friendly it is, what my family does is buy sides of beef, cases of whole chickens, etc. and keep a stocked deep freeze.0 -
Did I read you weight over 400lbs? Why not shoot for a moderately low calorie diet? 1500-2000 calories for instance. The more fat a person has the more calories they can cut (within reason!!) and not be adversely affected. I'm not saying go super low but I think at your weight hitting macros isn't exactly ideal. The "eat more to lose/hit your macros" is good advice for someone looking to drop a few pounds.0
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The reason people are getting irritated, is because everything your saying goes completely against logic and reason, hiding behind a "I have a unique metabolism / situation" front.what happens if you dont eat that many calories?
I don't lose. Plain and simple.
I'm sorry, but in the last 4 years of studying exercise metabolism I havn't come across a single person who defies the laws of energetics, regardless of any medical conditions.
If you are at a larger energy deficit, you will lose more. I'm not saying that's the healthiest option, but if your doctor / physician / yourself have been convinced otherwise your wrong.
In addition, you argue with people who criticise the BMR calculators your using, yet brought them to the table in your opening post demonstrating that you have clearly been relying on them.
On a seperate note, are you sure the reason your being prescribed metformin is not because your suffering from diabetes?
The entire post reads like someone who can't accept the position they are in, even the opening statement is bizzarre
- Have you ever had a DEXA scan to actually look at bone density? Or has your 'physician' just told you?"Basically, I'm tall, fat, and extremely muscle/bone dense"
All the best with your goals.0 -
I think the Atkins or Paleo diet would be a good fit. You need to eat a lot of protein, that'll help with the sugar you do take in.
I am currently on met. for PCOS and I haven't had that many stomach issues with it.
After about a week the cravings for sugar stopped. I still keep some treats around, especially when I'm on my period. But they are not a part of my daily diet.
String cheese has become my best friend. The type I buy is 80 calories, 7g of protein. Perfect snack!0 -
Now TDEE is a pretty good method and all, but have you tried or considered going back to MFP's (NEAT) method? Replug in your stats and go with netting the base cals they give you? (Of course this is just for calories. I think going back in and fixing the percentages on macros is a definite must).
Maybe give this another go for 6-8 weeks and see how that goes?0 -
Now TDEE is a pretty good method and all, but have you tried or considered going back to MFP's (NEAT) method? Replug in your stats and go with netting the base cals they give you? (Of course this is just for calories. I think going back in and fixing the percentages on macros is a definite must).
Maybe give this another go for 6-8 weeks and see how that goes?
Reread OP, and several comments later - there is no weight loss issue - when eating enough.0 -
Now TDEE is a pretty good method and all, but have you tried or considered going back to MFP's (NEAT) method? Replug in your stats and go with netting the base cals they give you? (Of course this is just for calories. I think going back in and fixing the percentages on macros is a definite must).
Maybe give this another go for 6-8 weeks and see how that goes?
Reread OP, and several comments later - there is no weight loss issue - when eating enough.
ETA: Nvm. I misunderstood when she was explaining her numbers. I thought that there was some confusion on it and my post was just meant to suggest an easier method if the numbers were an issue (not anything to do with her losing or not losing).0 -
The reason people are getting irritated, is because everything your saying goes completely against logic and reason, hiding behind a "I have a unique metabolism / situation" front.
I'm sorry, but in the last 4 years of studying exercise metabolism I haven't come across a single person who defies the laws of energetics, regardless of any medical conditions.
People who are in recovery from EDs definitely have different metabolisms and different calorific requirements. You're studying exercise metabolism but you evidently aren't studying eating disorder physiology.
Also your comment basically purports to know someone else's body better than they do, which is a bit of a ridiculous claim to be honest. The OP is talking from their experience and is following medical advice they have received. They weren't asking for help in making goals, they were asking for help achieving goals they have already decided.0 -
The reason people are getting irritated, is because everything your saying goes completely against logic and reason, hiding behind a "I have a unique metabolism / situation" front.what happens if you dont eat that many calories?
I don't lose. Plain and simple.
I'm sorry, but in the last 4 years of studying exercise metabolism I havn't come across a single person who defies the laws of energetics, regardless of any medical conditions.
If you are at a larger energy deficit, you will lose more. I'm not saying that's the healthiest option, but if your doctor / physician / yourself have been convinced otherwise your wrong.
In addition, you argue with people who criticise the BMR calculators your using, yet brought them to the table in your opening post demonstrating that you have clearly been relying on them.
On a seperate note, are you sure the reason your being prescribed metformin is not because your suffering from diabetes?
The entire post reads like someone who can't accept the position they are in, even the opening statement is bizzarre
- Have you ever had a DEXA scan to actually look at bone density? Or has your 'physician' just told you?"Basically, I'm tall, fat, and extremely muscle/bone dense"
All the best with your goals.
I'm only replying to say that I am not diabetic, I'm on it for anti-androgen therapy as stated. Look it up, it's directly indicated for PCOS and similar syndromes, you shouldn't just assume that someone taking the medication is taking it for diabetes.0 -
The reason people are getting irritated, is because everything your saying goes completely against logic and reason, hiding behind a "I have a unique metabolism / situation" front.
I'm sorry, but in the last 4 years of studying exercise metabolism I haven't come across a single person who defies the laws of energetics, regardless of any medical conditions.
People who are in recovery from EDs definitely have different metabolisms and different calorific requirements. You're studying exercise metabolism but you evidently aren't studying eating disorder physiology.
Also your comment basically purports to know someone else's body better than they do, which is a bit of a ridiculous claim to be honest. The OP is talking from their experience and is following medical advice they have received. They weren't asking for help in making goals, they were asking for help achieving goals they have already decided.
Find me any hard evidence to suggest that there eating disorder permanently alters metabolism? I promise to retract all comments if there is any.
All the studies im aware of that have even looked at this have found any changes are entirely short-term, your body doesn't care about the past, it cares about the present and the immediate metabolic situation.
On the other hand, I can find you a thousand studies looking at the severe effects of obesity on metabolism and life-span.
I am sorry if I am concerned when I hear someone very obese believe that eating such a high calorie intake is essential to their weight loss regime.
As for physicians, well many appear to actually know very little about metabolism, as is evident from the 30+ years anti-fat campaign.0 -
The reason people are getting irritated, is because everything your saying goes completely against logic and reason, hiding behind a "I have a unique metabolism / situation" front.
I'm sorry, but in the last 4 years of studying exercise metabolism I haven't come across a single person who defies the laws of energetics, regardless of any medical conditions.
People who are in recovery from EDs definitely have different metabolisms and different calorific requirements. You're studying exercise metabolism but you evidently aren't studying eating disorder physiology.
Also your comment basically purports to know someone else's body better than they do, which is a bit of a ridiculous claim to be honest. The OP is talking from their experience and is following medical advice they have received. They weren't asking for help in making goals, they were asking for help achieving goals they have already decided.
Right. It's not that I'm arguing I fall outside the bounds of thermogenisis, it's that my body function does not work the same way an average person's body works anymore, in the sense of hormonal response to hunger and nutrient needs. My stomach does not grumble. Where other people continue to produce digestive hormones and chemicals for several hours after eating, if I do not eat adequate amounts of food, my body stops doing this, essentially stopping my active metabolism between meals.
My personal trainer at the time that we discovered this insisted that I work out and eat 1200 calories. Not only was this a huge influx of calories for me at the time, they insisted that I was lying when we didn't see immediate success, and I actually gained 7 pounds rather than losing.
No one is arguing thermodynamics. Biology, on the other hand, is a different game.0 -
The reason people are getting irritated, is because everything your saying goes completely against logic and reason, hiding behind a "I have a unique metabolism / situation" front.what happens if you dont eat that many calories?
I don't lose. Plain and simple.
I'm sorry, but in the last 4 years of studying exercise metabolism I havn't come across a single person who defies the laws of energetics, regardless of any medical conditions.
If you are at a larger energy deficit, you will lose more. I'm not saying that's the healthiest option, but if your doctor / physician / yourself have been convinced otherwise your wrong.
In addition, you argue with people who criticise the BMR calculators your using, yet brought them to the table in your opening post demonstrating that you have clearly been relying on them.
On a seperate note, are you sure the reason your being prescribed metformin is not because your suffering from diabetes?
The entire post reads like someone who can't accept the position they are in, even the opening statement is bizzarre
- Have you ever had a DEXA scan to actually look at bone density? Or has your 'physician' just told you?"Basically, I'm tall, fat, and extremely muscle/bone dense"
All the best with your goals.
I'm only replying to say that I am not diabetic, I'm on it for anti-androgen therapy as stated. Look it up, it's directly indicated for PCOS and similar syndromes, you shouldn't just assume that someone taking the medication is taking it for diabetes.
This was a genuine question, not a judgement, I ask it because Im aware of several cases of physicians prescribing this without really understanding what it's for and more importantly not properly informing the patient why they are prescribing it.0 -
The reason people are getting irritated, is because everything your saying goes completely against logic and reason, hiding behind a "I have a unique metabolism / situation" front.
I'm sorry, but in the last 4 years of studying exercise metabolism I haven't come across a single person who defies the laws of energetics, regardless of any medical conditions.
People who are in recovery from EDs definitely have different metabolisms and different calorific requirements. You're studying exercise metabolism but you evidently aren't studying eating disorder physiology.
Also your comment basically purports to know someone else's body better than they do, which is a bit of a ridiculous claim to be honest. The OP is talking from their experience and is following medical advice they have received. They weren't asking for help in making goals, they were asking for help achieving goals they have already decided.
Find me any hard evidence to suggest that there eating disorder permanently alters metabolism? I promise to retract all comments if there is any.
All the studies im aware of that have even looked at this have found any changes are entirely short-term, your body doesn't care about the past, it cares about the present and the immediate metabolic situation.
On the other hand, I can find you a thousand studies looking at the severe effects of obesity on metabolism and life-span.
I am sorry if I am concerned when I hear someone very obese believe that eating such a high calorie intake is essential to their weight loss regime.
As for physicians, well many appear to actually know very little about metabolism, as is evident from the 30+ years anti-fat campaign.
In my case, not that it's any of your business or even the point of this thread, we have established in MORE THAN ONE INSTANCE that if I drop my my intake to a 2k+ deficit under TDEE, my body reverts to starve mode of anorexia, which I already stated in this thread.
I have tripped this mode and gotten stuck several times, and my greatest successes have been when I was eating about 1500 under my TDEE. Why is that bad?0 -
The reason people are getting irritated, is because everything your saying goes completely against logic and reason, hiding behind a "I have a unique metabolism / situation" front.
I'm sorry, but in the last 4 years of studying exercise metabolism I haven't come across a single person who defies the laws of energetics, regardless of any medical conditions.
People who are in recovery from EDs definitely have different metabolisms and different calorific requirements. You're studying exercise metabolism but you evidently aren't studying eating disorder physiology.
Also your comment basically purports to know someone else's body better than they do, which is a bit of a ridiculous claim to be honest. The OP is talking from their experience and is following medical advice they have received. They weren't asking for help in making goals, they were asking for help achieving goals they have already decided.
Right. It's not that I'm arguing I fall outside the bounds of thermogenisis, it's that my body function does not work the same way an average person's body works anymore, in the sense of hormonal response to hunger and nutrient needs. My stomach does not grumble. Where other people continue to produce digestive hormones and chemicals for several hours after eating, if I do not eat adequate amounts of food, my body stops doing this, essentially stopping my active metabolism between meals.
My personal trainer at the time that we discovered this insisted that I work out and eat 1200 calories. Not only was this a huge influx of calories for me at the time, they insisted that I was lying when we didn't see immediate success, and I actually gained 7 pounds rather than losing.
No one is arguing thermodynamics. Biology, on the other hand, is a different game.
In view of where this is going, im just going to say that I do not wish to get into a full blown argument with you. I've put my experience and opinion down and your free to ignore it.
I do however, honestly wish the best with your goals and your health regardless how you approach it.0 -
The reason people are getting irritated, is because everything your saying goes completely against logic and reason, hiding behind a "I have a unique metabolism / situation" front.
I'm sorry, but in the last 4 years of studying exercise metabolism I haven't come across a single person who defies the laws of energetics, regardless of any medical conditions.
People who are in recovery from EDs definitely have different metabolisms and different calorific requirements. You're studying exercise metabolism but you evidently aren't studying eating disorder physiology.
Also your comment basically purports to know someone else's body better than they do, which is a bit of a ridiculous claim to be honest. The OP is talking from their experience and is following medical advice they have received. They weren't asking for help in making goals, they were asking for help achieving goals they have already decided.
Right. It's not that I'm arguing I fall outside the bounds of thermogenisis, it's that my body function does not work the same way an average person's body works anymore, in the sense of hormonal response to hunger and nutrient needs. My stomach does not grumble. Where other people continue to produce digestive hormones and chemicals for several hours after eating, if I do not eat adequate amounts of food, my body stops doing this, essentially stopping my active metabolism between meals.
My personal trainer at the time that we discovered this insisted that I work out and eat 1200 calories. Not only was this a huge influx of calories for me at the time, they insisted that I was lying when we didn't see immediate success, and I actually gained 7 pounds rather than losing.
No one is arguing thermodynamics. Biology, on the other hand, is a different game.
In view of where this is going, im just going to say that I do not wish to get into a full blown argument with you. I've put my experience and opinion down and your free to ignore it.
I do however, honestly wish the best with your goals and your health regardless how you approach it.
I just don't understand why you disagree with an approach that generates 6-7 pounds a week in loss while drastically improving my overall health, without the use of intervention surgery.
1500 calorie deficit a day is much higher than a lot of people work with. I'm not ignoring your experience, it's just that it doesn't apply to me. If you intend to be a trainer of some sort, you could do well to try and understand that not everyone works as you assume they should, some of us can't.
This thread was asking for help to achieve goals that my own nutritionist, physicians, and trainers have reviewed with me and approved. The proof is in the pudding. If I eat 1/3 my TDEE, I suffer. If I eat 2/3 of it, I excel. Which would you choose? failure or success?
I choose success.0
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