So you'll lose muscle on a vegan diet?
Replies
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The article also completely avoids the fact that that you need more protein at a deficit. Maintaining muscle at a deficit =/= maintaining at maintenance or at surplus.0
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Counter intuitive but very true......we need some proteins to take it for the sake of the team.The article also completely avoids the fact that that you need more protein at a deficit. Maintaining muscle at a deficit =/= maintaining at maintenance or at surplus.0 -
You want to eat vegan cool, you want to eat meat cool. Who gives a ****. We don't need to re-invent the wheel here folks.0
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FWIW, he's not a UFC fighter since he's retired. He was pretty bad, probably due to his crappy diet.0
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... I've started a sort of part-time 80/20 vegan diet ...
Proper name is chegan (cheating vegan). Lots of chegans out there. You are in good company.0 -
FWIW, he's not a UFC fighter since he's retired. He was pretty bad, probably due to his crappy diet.
Actually, according to his stats, he actually lost more fights since becoming a vegan than he won. Before that, he had won more than lost.
Not the best example to use to prove any point.0 -
Since I can't get an answer I guess I'll just have to go with leprechauns. So the take away from this thread is don't eat too much protein or leprechauns will steal it from your body.
My liver has to do all that (process dietary protein into energy or fat) but my liver cannot process more than 80 grams per day.You don’t need one gram of protein per pound of body weight. You don’t need that at all. If you are regularly active and at a good weight, if you get more than 80 grams of protein a day then you are fine. The body can’t even process more than that, your liver can’t process more than that. If you give your body too much protein then it’s either going to turn it into energy or to fat. And your liver has to do all that.”
So the obvious question is, "what happens to the other 70 grams per day that I ingest?"
I mean, if he's right then it clearly cannot possibly be turning into fat OR being used for energy. Is it just falling out of my body, or building up somewhere, or perhaps being processed/eliminated by leprechauns?0 -
Nope.
Being a vegan is totally healthy if planned appropriately. I can trust Harvard and the ADA. Money quote:
"In July 2009, the American Dietetic Association weighed in with a position paper, concluding that "appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases" (Journal of the American Dietetic Association, July 2009)."
http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Womens_Health_Watch/2009/October/becoming-a-vegetarian
And this:
"The Institute of Medicine recommends that adults get a minimum of 0.8 grams of protein for every kilogram of body weight per day (or 8 grams of protein for every 20 pounds of body weight)."
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/protein/
Answer your question?0 -
"The Institute of Medicine recommends that adults get a minimum of 0.8 grams of protein for every kilogram of body weight per day (or 8 grams of protein for every 20 pounds of body weight)."
So, how much is optimal
Minimal sounds like a d student loser who just gets a diploma; I wanna be valedictorian and nail the homecoming queen...0 -
The OP question was about losing muscle mass, not if the diet was healthy. And if your only getting only .8g/kg bodyweight in protein while lifting and dieting I can guarantee muscle loss.Nope.
Being a vegan is totally healthy if planned appropriately. I can trust Harvard and the ADA. Money quote:
"In July 2009, the American Dietetic Association weighed in with a position paper, concluding that "appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases" (Journal of the American Dietetic Association, July 2009)."
http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Womens_Health_Watch/2009/October/becoming-a-vegetarian
And this:
"The Institute of Medicine recommends that adults get a minimum of 0.8 grams of protein for every kilogram of body weight per day (or 8 grams of protein for every 20 pounds of body weight)."
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/protein/
Answer your question?0 -
Nope.
Being a vegan is totally healthy if planned appropriately. I can trust Harvard and the ADA. Money quote:
"In July 2009, the American Dietetic Association weighed in with a position paper, concluding that "appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases" (Journal of the American Dietetic Association, July 2009)."
http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Womens_Health_Watch/2009/October/becoming-a-vegetarian
And this:
"The Institute of Medicine recommends that adults get a minimum of 0.8 grams of protein for every kilogram of body weight per day (or 8 grams of protein for every 20 pounds of body weight)."
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/protein/
Answer your question?
Even if many studies did not show that more than the 0.8g/kg is not optimal, this does not address the fact that on a caloric deficit, protein requirements are increased. Activity also increases protein requirements.0 -
Health Canada has for the last few years (that I've been checking) said exactly that. 0.8 g per kilo of body weight minimum as the RDA. I eat more than that, especially when in deficit but I've always been looking for studies that show the MFP standard of 1 g/lb of lean body weight is accurate. I have read studies that show that the more elderly might do better with higher protein than suggested by Health Canada.0
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Regardless of diet, one will lose some muscle on a weight loss program. The degree will always depend on a few factors:
genetics
whether one strength trains or not
calorie deficit setting
protein intake
From what I've experienced, muscular people who try to retain muscle on a vegan diet have to eat quite a bit to obtain enough. With all the fiber in most vegan diets, some don't reach potential due to feeling full and don't want to feel that way all the time.
5oz of tofu has about 12 grams of protein. So personally I'd have to consume 29oz just to get HALF of the protein I take in everyday.
6oz of steak has about 112grams of protein (MFP).
So it's "easier" to attain getting protein from animal sources based on quantity of food you have to eat vs vegan. Which is why many athletes and competitors choose meat. More protein from less food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Minimum =/= bestNope.
Being a vegan is totally healthy if planned appropriately. I can trust Harvard and the ADA. Money quote:
"In July 2009, the American Dietetic Association weighed in with a position paper, concluding that "appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases" (Journal of the American Dietetic Association, July 2009)."
http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Womens_Health_Watch/2009/October/becoming-a-vegetarian
And this:
"The Institute of Medicine recommends that adults get a minimum of 0.8 grams of protein for every kilogram of body weight per day (or 8 grams of protein for every 20 pounds of body weight)."
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/protein/
Answer your question?0 -
Regardless of diet, one will lose some muscle on a weight loss program. The degree will always depend on a few factors:
genetics
whether one strength trains or not
calorie deficit setting
protein intake
From what I've experienced, muscular people who try to retain muscle on a vegan diet have to eat quite a bit to obtain enough. With all the fiber in most vegan diets, some don't reach potential due to feeling full and don't want to feel that way all the time.
5oz of tofu has about 12 grams of protein. So personally I'd have to consume 29oz just to get HALF of the protein I take in everyday.
6oz of steak has about 112grams of protein (MFP).
So it's "easier" to attain getting protein from animal sources based on quantity of food you have to eat vs vegan. Which is why many athletes and competitors choose meat. More protein from less food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
There are vegan protein powders that are high protein %'s that have adequate aminos...just soy you know...0 -
And how do you feel about someone who just does the bare minimum?"The Institute of Medicine recommends that adults get a minimum of 0.8 grams of protein for every kilogram of body weight per day (or 8 grams of protein for every 20 pounds of body weight)."
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Hmmm...no.sort of part-time 80/20 vegan diet
^Have to agree. If your a vegan, your a vegan. Not most of the time, not 80% of the time..you are or you aren't. Now you can have a primarily based vegan diet or whatnot..but that doesn't make you vegan. :laugh:
She didn't call herself a vegan though. She said she was eating a 80/20 vegan diet.
I eat a largely vegetarian diet and if anybody asks me about it, that is how I will always describe it. If someone ever wants to get in my face about how I'm "not a vegetarian", all I can possibly say to that is "no *kitten*".
Anyway, sorry to continue this diversion. Carry on with your thread folks.
(Edit: I had assumed OP was a guy - apologies)0 -
hahaha Carl Lewis. You mean the little ***** who cried because the canadian whooped him, and then got busted for performance enhancers. The best part is your hero carl was on the **** too. In fact the man who tested him and got the results back was told by the powers that be to hide the fact. So, in retrospect he would not have had the medals if everyone was clean. You people are in the dark. What a joke. Watch bigger stronger faster, the man is on the record with the papers in hand proving the fact. GOD I am tried of idiots.0
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Where do you get your protein? is the most common ? vegans get. Makes us laugh. We get plenty of complete proteins on our vegan diet. Of course I know plenty of vegans with lousy, inadequate diets, just like I know Omni's with lousy diets.0
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VEGAN & STEROIDS PERHAPS!!!0
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Two of my friends and my sister are vegans and they are amazingly fit. One of them actually does iron man competitions and she's 57 years old. (I love cheese too much to ever be a vegan.)
I work with two fellas that are into the paleo diet and they're both fit.
There are also quite a few physicians that I work with that are either vegetarian or vegans.
Bottom line is YOU decide what works for YOU. Just make sure you educate yourself accordingly so that you meet your nutritional needs.0 -
Protein can come from vegan sources. It is easier to attain from animal sources but where there is a will there is a way. One can gain strength without gaining muscle mass... Gaining muscle mass and strength are two different functions.0
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I'm sure there are, but I'd rather eat my protein rather than drink it.Regardless of diet, one will lose some muscle on a weight loss program. The degree will always depend on a few factors:
genetics
whether one strength trains or not
calorie deficit setting
protein intake
From what I've experienced, muscular people who try to retain muscle on a vegan diet have to eat quite a bit to obtain enough. With all the fiber in most vegan diets, some don't reach potential due to feeling full and don't want to feel that way all the time.
5oz of tofu has about 12 grams of protein. So personally I'd have to consume 29oz just to get HALF of the protein I take in everyday.
6oz of steak has about 112grams of protein (MFP).
So it's "easier" to attain getting protein from animal sources based on quantity of food you have to eat vs vegan. Which is why many athletes and competitors choose meat. More protein from less food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
There are vegan protein powders that are high protein %'s that have adequate aminos...just soy you know...
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
It also doesn't mean to jack up protein levels as if that's what you need to do in order to be healthy. Also, I am not in this to bulk up. That may require something different.
Nor am I vegan or advocating a total vegan diet. But it is possible to get enough nutrients to do so. Can't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I have ditched all meat except for wild caught fish. Oh, and how can I live without a good cheese or a good ravioli. Or a little butter here and there.
The bottom line is that in general American diets have too much protein and carbs and not enough green veggies. I think we can all agree on that, right?0 -
That awkward moment when most vegetables (if not all) are largely carbohydrateIt also doesn't mean to jack up protein levels as if that's what you need to do in order to be healthy. Also, I am not in this to bulk up. That may require something different.
Nor am I vegan or advocating a total vegan diet. But it is possible to get enough nutrients to do so. Can't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I have ditched all meat except for wild caught fish. Oh, and how can I live without a good cheese or a good ravioli. Or a little butter here and there.
The bottom line is that in general American diets have too much protein and carbs and not enough green veggies. I think we can all agree on that, right?0 -
American diets certainly have too much protein and too many refined carbs, and certainly not enough green veggies. But i'd also say they don't get enough carbs from whole, plant sources. Americans need more fruit in their diet.The bottom line is that in general American diets have too much protein and carbs and not enough green veggies. I think we can all agree on that, right?0 -
Alright let's get some science up in here.
"Those involved in strength training might need to consume as much as 1.6 to 1.7 g protein x kg(-1) x day(-1)"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9841962
"we suggest that athletes consume 1.8 to 2.0 g of protein/kg of bodyweight/day"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6390614
"These results indicate that approximately 2.3 g x kg(-1) or approximately 35% protein was significantly superior to approximately 1.0 g x kg(-1) or approximately 15% energy protein for maintenance of lean body mass in young healthy athletes during short-term hypoenergetic weight loss."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19927027
"Initial findings support use of dietary at levels above 1.5 g/kg . d during weight loss."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15640518
"Elevated protein consumption, as high as 1.8-2.0 g · kg(-1) · day(-1) depending on the caloric deficit, may be advantageous in preventing lean mass losses during periods of energy restriction to promote fat loss."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22150425
"Although there is some debate, moststudies indicate that in order to maintain protein balance duringintense resistance and/or endurance training, athletes should ingestapproximately 1.3 to 1.8 g protein per kg body mass per day"
http://www.sportsci.org/jour/9901/rbk.html
So let's leave no doubt about your body needing a lot of protein when doing heavy lifting.
Can you get that from vegan sources? Yes. Just make sure you get all your amino's and eat a well-balanced diet so you get your complete proteins. It'll be harder on a vegan diet though.
And claims that 80g/day for a full grown man are just plain nonsense.0 -
That awkward moment when most vegetables (if not all) are largely carbohydrateIt also doesn't mean to jack up protein levels as if that's what you need to do in order to be healthy. Also, I am not in this to bulk up. That may require something different.
Nor am I vegan or advocating a total vegan diet. But it is possible to get enough nutrients to do so. Can't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I have ditched all meat except for wild caught fish. Oh, and how can I live without a good cheese or a good ravioli. Or a little butter here and there.
The bottom line is that in general American diets have too much protein and carbs and not enough green veggies. I think we can all agree on that, right?
:laugh:
And IN for science.0 -
That awkward moment when most vegetables (if not all) are largely carbohydrateIt also doesn't mean to jack up protein levels as if that's what you need to do in order to be healthy. Also, I am not in this to bulk up. That may require something different.
Nor am I vegan or advocating a total vegan diet. But it is possible to get enough nutrients to do so. Can't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I have ditched all meat except for wild caught fish. Oh, and how can I live without a good cheese or a good ravioli. Or a little butter here and there.
The bottom line is that in general American diets have too much protein and carbs and not enough green veggies. I think we can all agree on that, right?
:laugh:
And IN for science.
yeah, I was gonna go in and refute that, then the best i could do pulling an "example" veggie on nutritiondata.com was 20% protein...0 -
I googled the MMA guy. I was hoping to see a massive guy. He's skinny like me!0
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