Metabolic Damage: Alan Aragon interviews Lyle McDonald
Replies
-
Read the whole thing. Good read and in support of what I've come to understand from the forums and my own reading. Nice to have it summarized all in one link though very cool.0
-
While the science behind these articles can be very persuasive, the points could be made without the misogynistic language and characterization of female dieters as neurotic and crazy.
Although that made me cringe a bit as well I have to say having watched this forum for a month or so now the amount of "OMG not losing weight and eating 1200 calories a day while doing 7 day a week 2 hour cardio sessions not eating back my calories" threads are 95% women who do seem overly stressed and neurotic. So although it might be a patriarchy culture or inappropriate body-image driving these women at some level you sort of have to admit this does seem to happen more to women than men.
Sometimes unfortunately sterotypes are born from unfortunate realities.0 -
While the science behind these articles can be very persuasive, the points could be made without the misogynistic language and characterization of female dieters as neurotic and crazy.
Although that made me cringe a bit as well I have to say having watched this forum for a month or so now the amount of "OMG not losing weight and eating 1200 calories a day while doing 7 day a week 2 hour cardio sessions not eating back my calories" threads are 95% women who do seem overly stressed and neurotic. So although it might be a patriarchy culture or inappropriate body-image driving these women at some level you sort of have to admit this does seem to happen more to women than men.
Sometimes unfortunately sterotypes are born from unfortunate realities.
Actually, I've encountered at least two posts from males who were eating around 1200 calories and saying they were not losing. ED behavior is not purely a female problem, although our culture certainly promotes that behavior more in women.0 -
True. And that's why I get my knickers in a twist with a lot of the materials I want to read about strength training, etc. Stereotypes being born from realities much of the time, the unfortunate reality in that community is that misogynistic attitudes and language are too widely tolerated. If we don't call them out on it, where's the impetus to change their behavior?While the science behind these articles can be very persuasive, the points could be made without the misogynistic language and characterization of female dieters as neurotic and crazy.
Although that made me cringe a bit as well I have to say having watched this forum for a month or so now the amount of "OMG not losing weight and eating 1200 calories a day while doing 7 day a week 2 hour cardio sessions not eating back my calories" threads are 95% women who do seem overly stressed and neurotic. So although it might be a patriarchy culture or inappropriate body-image driving these women at some level you sort of have to admit this does seem to happen more to women than men.
Sometimes unfortunately sterotypes are born from unfortunate realities.
Actually, I've encountered at least two posts from males who were eating around 1200 calories and saying they were not losing. ED behavior is not purely a female problem, although our culture certainly promotes that behavior more in women.0 -
Initially, I would've totally agreed with you, but on second read I realized that I've been one of those bat*** female dieters and I needed to be called out about it. When a PT finally did, I almost burst out crying in her office. (Hearing "what you're doing isn't healthy and it isn't going to work. You're clearly exhausted and you look like you're going to fall apart at any moment" was the best thing that could've happened to me).While the science behind these articles can be very persuasive, the points could be made without the misogynistic language and characterization of female dieters as neurotic and crazy.
Eating an extreme low-calorie diet, cardio-ing like zombies are chasing you and cranking the stress meter up to 11 is not okay. It's wildly unhealthy and we need to stop looking at it as "normal" female dieting behavior. If it takes some not-so-nice language to get the point across that women who do this are hurting themselves, I'm fine with that.0 -
Great article, thanks0
-
While the science behind these articles can be very persuasive, the points could be made without the misogynistic language and characterization of female dieters as neurotic and crazy.
I thought it was a bit misogynistic as well, and could have used some editing. But overall the information was interesting.0 -
I absolutely love this article. I wish I could tattoo it on my forearms.
Edited to add: yes, I went through the batdoody crazy dieting phase he describes. About me, at least, he is 100% correct.0 -
This is why i take a week's break from exercise every 4weeks.0
-
While the science behind these articles can be very persuasive, the points could be made without the misogynistic language and characterization of female dieters as neurotic and crazy.
Although that made me cringe a bit as well I have to say having watched this forum for a month or so now the amount of "OMG not losing weight and eating 1200 calories a day while doing 7 day a week 2 hour cardio sessions not eating back my calories" threads are 95% women who do seem overly stressed and neurotic. So although it might be a patriarchy culture or inappropriate body-image driving these women at some level you sort of have to admit this does seem to happen more to women than men.
Sometimes unfortunately sterotypes are born from unfortunate realities.
Actually, I've encountered at least two posts from males who were eating around 1200 calories and saying they were not losing. ED behavior is not purely a female problem, although our culture certainly promotes that behavior more in women.
Sure it's not exclusively a female problem but it's much more prevalent in women especially in the context of this forum. That's a statement of observation, not judgement, just to be clear.0 -
Cliff notes:
But irrespective of that, let’s address what seems like a fairly simple question: Can the drop in metabolic rate, due to the drop in bodyweight and the adaptive component EVER be sufficient to completely eliminate true fat loss?
And the answer, at least based on the last 80 years of studies into the topic (in humans, NOT animal models) says no. Perhaps the classic study in this regard was the oft-quoted (and oft- misunderstood) Minnesota Semi-Starvation Study. In it, a dozen or so war objectors got to avoid going to war and arguably got into something worse. That is, researchers wanted to study long- term starvation as might occur during war or famine or being held in a prisoner camp.0 -
While the science behind these articles can be very persuasive, the points could be made without the misogynistic language and characterization of female dieters as neurotic and crazy.
Although that made me cringe a bit as well I have to say having watched this forum for a month or so now the amount of "OMG not losing weight and eating 1200 calories a day while doing 7 day a week 2 hour cardio sessions not eating back my calories" threads are 95% women who do seem overly stressed and neurotic. So although it might be a patriarchy culture or inappropriate body-image driving these women at some level you sort of have to admit this does seem to happen more to women than men.
Sometimes unfortunately sterotypes are born from unfortunate realities.
Actually, I've encountered at least two posts from males who were eating around 1200 calories and saying they were not losing. ED behavior is not purely a female problem, although our culture certainly promotes that behavior more in women.
Sure it's not exclusively a female problem but it's much more prevalent in women especially in the context of this forum. That's a statement of observation, not judgement, just to be clear.
Anecdotal evidence in favor of confirmation bias on a board that he wasn't even writing the article for totally makes it okay.0 -
I
Alan. Even though we disagree on certain subjects. Don't care for Lyle. 0 -
Good article...0
-
While the science behind these articles can be very persuasive, the points could be made without the misogynistic language and characterization of female dieters as neurotic and crazy.
Although that made me cringe a bit as well I have to say having watched this forum for a month or so now the amount of "OMG not losing weight and eating 1200 calories a day while doing 7 day a week 2 hour cardio sessions not eating back my calories" threads are 95% women who do seem overly stressed and neurotic. So although it might be a patriarchy culture or inappropriate body-image driving these women at some level you sort of have to admit this does seem to happen more to women than men.
Sometimes unfortunately sterotypes are born from unfortunate realities.
Actually, I've encountered at least two posts from males who were eating around 1200 calories and saying they were not losing. ED behavior is not purely a female problem, although our culture certainly promotes that behavior more in women.
Sure it's not exclusively a female problem but it's much more prevalent in women especially in the context of this forum. That's a statement of observation, not judgement, just to be clear.
Anecdotal evidence in favor of confirmation bias on a board that he wasn't even writing the article for totally makes it okay.
I wasn't making a statement about whether or not it was ok.0 -
There are far more women on this board who claim the 1200 calories/intense exercise/not losing weight diet. I would say the split is around 85% women and 15% men on this board. If you think otherwise, you aren't on here very much.0
-
This content has been removed.
-
I can clearly see where the OP was addressing an article about Metabolic Damage for those interested to read and somehow on the last few pages it has clearly gotten off topic so if we could please follow site guidelines and return the discussion to the OT it would be greatly appreciated....
Guideline in question:
2. No Hi-Jacking, Trolling, or Flame-baiting
Please stay on-topic in an existing thread, and post new threads in the appropriate forum. Taking a thread off-topic is considered hi-jacking. Please either contribute politely and constructively to a topic, or move on without posting. This includes posts that encourage the drama in a topic to escalate, or posts intended to incite an uproar from the community.
Thanks again
MFP moderator
CyberEd3120 -
This content has been removed.
-
I think this whole debate here is another issue that is constantly prevalent, to many people concerned with how the message is delivered as opposed to the context of what is being said. People should just stop nit picking things just because they aren't said in a "nice" way, stop being so sensitive and quit looking for excuses.While the science behind these articles can be very persuasive, the points could be made without the misogynistic language and characterization of female dieters as neurotic and crazy.
Although that made me cringe a bit as well I have to say having watched this forum for a month or so now the amount of "OMG not losing weight and eating 1200 calories a day while doing 7 day a week 2 hour cardio sessions not eating back my calories" threads are 95% women who do seem overly stressed and neurotic. So although it might be a patriarchy culture or inappropriate body-image driving these women at some level you sort of have to admit this does seem to happen more to women than men.
Sometimes unfortunately sterotypes are born from unfortunate realities.
Actually, I've encountered at least two posts from males who were eating around 1200 calories and saying they were not losing. ED behavior is not purely a female problem, although our culture certainly promotes that behavior more in women.
Such a common response for things like misogyny. Stop complaining about those "woman" issues....
Since I believe Mr.M is latino, I wonder if he'd have the same response if it were an offensive latino stereotype. Or be totally okay with being told to just not be so sensitive.
wow...just wow lindz..
how do you know he is latin? Are you assuming that because he has dark skin? What if he is native American ...? and what the hell does his heritage have to do with this...
I will ask you once. Do not speak about what you think my heritage is based on my name is or for that matter even say my actual name is in a thread. Regardless of whether it is on my page or not. I'm tired of you coming in constantly to argue with everyone whenever a conversation about calorie in out/out comes up or about women now. It's getting old. So like I said in the beginning of this post do not speak about me personally.
Lindsey, can you not be happy that women are being included in research now?
0 -
While the science behind these articles can be very persuasive, the points could be made without the misogynistic language and characterization of female dieters as neurotic and crazy.
Although that made me cringe a bit as well I have to say having watched this forum for a month or so now the amount of "OMG not losing weight and eating 1200 calories a day while doing 7 day a week 2 hour cardio sessions not eating back my calories" threads are 95% women who do seem overly stressed and neurotic. So although it might be a patriarchy culture or inappropriate body-image driving these women at some level you sort of have to admit this does seem to happen more to women than men.
Sometimes unfortunately sterotypes are born from unfortunate realities.
Actually, I've encountered at least two posts from males who were eating around 1200 calories and saying they were not losing. ED behavior is not purely a female problem, although our culture certainly promotes that behavior more in women.
Sure it's not exclusively a female problem but it's much more prevalent in women especially in the context of this forum. That's a statement of observation, not judgement, just to be clear.
Which was my point. I never claimed that it was exclusive to women nor did the article, but just by observation it is clearly effecting the female community more than the male or at least they are more vocal about it on forums like this one. That isn't a matter of judgement as SideSteel stated, that's just observation. As I said sometimes unfortunate stereotypes are born from an unfortunate reality.0 -
I think this whole debate here is another issue that is constantly prevalent, to many people concerned with how the message is delivered as opposed to the context of what is being said. People should just stop nit picking things just because they aren't said in a "nice" way, stop being so sensitive and quit looking for excuses.While the science behind these articles can be very persuasive, the points could be made without the misogynistic language and characterization of female dieters as neurotic and crazy.
Although that made me cringe a bit as well I have to say having watched this forum for a month or so now the amount of "OMG not losing weight and eating 1200 calories a day while doing 7 day a week 2 hour cardio sessions not eating back my calories" threads are 95% women who do seem overly stressed and neurotic. So although it might be a patriarchy culture or inappropriate body-image driving these women at some level you sort of have to admit this does seem to happen more to women than men.
Sometimes unfortunately sterotypes are born from unfortunate realities.
Actually, I've encountered at least two posts from males who were eating around 1200 calories and saying they were not losing. ED behavior is not purely a female problem, although our culture certainly promotes that behavior more in women.
Agreed0 -
I can clearly see where the OP was addressing an article about Metabolic Damage for those interested to read and somehow on the last few pages it has clearly gotten off topic so if we could please follow site guidelines and return the discussion to the OT it would be greatly appreciated....
Guideline in question:
2. No Hi-Jacking, Trolling, or Flame-baiting
Please stay on-topic in an existing thread, and post new threads in the appropriate forum. Taking a thread off-topic is considered hi-jacking. Please either contribute politely and constructively to a topic, or move on without posting. This includes posts that encourage the drama in a topic to escalate, or posts intended to incite an uproar from the community.
Thanks again
MFP moderator
CyberEd312
Whoops. I made some replies before seeing this. I will no longer comment on the misogyny point, I think the content of the article is what is important here and is not worth derailing. There is a lot of good info here.0 -
Bumping for later reading0
-
So, now that we've dispensed with the discussion of misogyny, and the use of ad hominem arguments, I have a question about the topic. Is this study in effect saying that starvation mode and "metabolic damage" don't exist? Is the implication then that the 1200 calorie threshold is arbitrary? Can we assume that all these people who say they are eating at 1200 and not losing are lying? (I don't think they all are.) And should we ignore warnings that we shouldn't eat less than that? I'm not talking about the person who eats 1175 and gets a warning when she posts for the day, but the person who is eating 1200 and maybe burning 500 in exercise and not "eating back" calories? We have a lot of people posting who are doing that, and often people jump on board and tell these folks to stop (I know because I often tell them to, old busybody that I am), that they are harming themselves. Maybe we should just let them do what they want as long as they aren't unhealthily thin? If someone is legitimately overweight (not someone with a normal BMI who wants to get into a smaller pair of jeans), should we just say do what you need to do to get the job done and support them?0
-
tagging for later. thanks for sharing:)0
-
Ugh one thread without some butthurt would be so refreshing....especially when it's a thread containing an article full of such useful, helpful, and TRUE information.
Thanks SS. Another great read from 2 of the best. I really took away a lot from this one, especially when regarding the water retention in relation to dieting.0 -
So, now that we've dispensed with the discussion of misogyny, and the use of ad hominem arguments, I have a question about the topic. Is this study in effect saying that starvation mode and "metabolic damage" don't exist? Is the implication then that the 1200 calorie threshold is arbitrary? Can we assume that all these people who say they are eating at 1200 and not losing are lying? (I don't think they all are.) And should we ignore warnings that we shouldn't eat less than that? I'm not talking about the person who eats 1175 and gets a warning when she posts for the day, but the person who is eating 1200 and maybe burning 500 in exercise and not "eating back" calories? We have a lot of people posting who are doing that, and often people jump on board and tell these folks to stop (I know because I often tell them to, old busybody that I am), that they are harming themselves. Maybe we should just let them do what they want as long as they aren't unhealthily thin? If someone is legitimately overweight (not someone with a normal BMI who wants to get into a smaller pair of jeans), should we just say do what you need to do to get the job done and support them?
My understanding is that the 1200 threshold is based on the minimal caloric intake that is required to satisfy all the micronutrient requirements for basic health and bodily function and has nothing to do with the idea of metabolic damage or "starvation mode".
It also is not saying that you won't lower your metabolism eating to little it is saying that there is never a point where eating less will not result in greater fat loss (with the exception of when you get down to your essential fat).0 -
I think this whole debate here is another issue that is constantly prevalent, to many people concerned with how the message is delivered as opposed to the context of what is being said. People should just stop nit picking things just because they aren't said in a "nice" way, stop being so sensitive and quit looking for excuses.While the science behind these articles can be very persuasive, the points could be made without the misogynistic language and characterization of female dieters as neurotic and crazy.
Although that made me cringe a bit as well I have to say having watched this forum for a month or so now the amount of "OMG not losing weight and eating 1200 calories a day while doing 7 day a week 2 hour cardio sessions not eating back my calories" threads are 95% women who do seem overly stressed and neurotic. So although it might be a patriarchy culture or inappropriate body-image driving these women at some level you sort of have to admit this does seem to happen more to women than men.
Sometimes unfortunately sterotypes are born from unfortunate realities.
Actually, I've encountered at least two posts from males who were eating around 1200 calories and saying they were not losing. ED behavior is not purely a female problem, although our culture certainly promotes that behavior more in women.
Such a common response for things like misogyny. Stop complaining about those "woman" issues....
Since I believe Mr.M is latino, I wonder if he'd have the same response if it were an offensive latino stereotype. Or be totally okay with being told to just not be so sensitive.
wow...just wow lindz..
how do you know he is latin? Are you assuming that because he has dark skin? What if he is native American ...? and what the hell does his heritage have to do with this...
I will ask you once. Do not speak about what you think my heritage is based on my name is or for that matter even say my actual name is in a thread. Regardless of whether it is on my page or not. I'm tired of you coming in constantly to argue with everyone whenever a conversation about calorie in out/out comes up or about women now. It's getting old. So like I said in the beginning of this post do not speak about me personally.
Lindsey, can you not be happy that women are being included in research now?
I'm thrilled when women are included in research. I just don't like it when we're maligned as neurotic, bat ** crazy, etc. As did many other posters.
Otherwise, there is a lot of great information in the article and I think it's a great read.0 -
.....moving on? As we requested by the MFP moderator. You can post a new thread about why this article is misogynistic if you wish to continue the conversation elsewhere.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions