Maintaining Muscle, Phentermine, and Calories...
drwaddy
Posts: 50 Member
Ok, so I've read a ton of posts and I just want to more or less re-iterate what I've read and get confirmation that I'm not stupid and it makes sense lol...
You can maintain muscle at a calorie deficit, even a drastic one, so long as you didn't have a lot of bulk to begin with, a newbie like me with a simple low weight, high rep workout...
Taking Phentermine will make a lower calorie diet easier to handle as you don't feel the need to constantly stuff your face... Which honestly on a really high protein diet like this should be easy anyway.
So, I can get away with a 1500 calorie or even an 1800 calorie day while maintaining a 6 day a week low weight high rep workout, making sure to maintain 1g protein per lean body mass?
Currently I'm eating 3100 calories a day, and losing about a pound a week, but the doctor wants me to take phentermine and I'm wondering if significantly reducing my calories will cause me to lose all the small gains I've had in the last month?
You can maintain muscle at a calorie deficit, even a drastic one, so long as you didn't have a lot of bulk to begin with, a newbie like me with a simple low weight, high rep workout...
Taking Phentermine will make a lower calorie diet easier to handle as you don't feel the need to constantly stuff your face... Which honestly on a really high protein diet like this should be easy anyway.
So, I can get away with a 1500 calorie or even an 1800 calorie day while maintaining a 6 day a week low weight high rep workout, making sure to maintain 1g protein per lean body mass?
Currently I'm eating 3100 calories a day, and losing about a pound a week, but the doctor wants me to take phentermine and I'm wondering if significantly reducing my calories will cause me to lose all the small gains I've had in the last month?
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Replies
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Ok, so I've read a ton of posts and I just want to more or less re-iterate what I've read and get confirmation that I'm not stupid and it makes sense lol...
You can maintain muscle at a calorie deficit, even a drastic one, so long as you didn't have a lot of bulk to begin with, a newbie like me with a simple low weight, high rep workout...
Taking Phentermine will make a lower calorie diet easier to handle as you don't feel the need to constantly stuff your face... Which honestly on a really high protein diet like this should be easy anyway.
So, I can get away with a 1500 calorie or even an 1800 calorie day while maintaining a 6 day a week low weight high rep workout, making sure to maintain 1g protein per lean body mass?
Currently I'm eating 3100 calories a day, and losing about a pound a week, but the doctor wants me to take phentermine and I'm wondering if significantly reducing my calories will cause me to lose all the small gains I've had in the last month?
I can't speak much on the muscle mass, but it sounds like you don't want to take the phentermine, because, as you said, you are on a high protein diet which (I'm assuming) will keep you full. I just googled phentermine and it seems like it is a non-prescribed diet pill. If you don't want to take it, and your doctor doesn't have any compelling reasons for you to take it, don't take it imo.
That being said, I don't think it is necessary for you to go down to 1500 a day. I lose weight on 2000 a day - I'm 200 pound 5'7" woman. Stick to losing weight in a slow and steady way, don't try and rush it.0 -
The doctor suggested it, drug me into some like office seminar with this whole booklet and diary etc... I tried to tell them like 15 times I'm already doing work, but I'm sure they see 100 of me a day who aren't doing that...
My question really, was can I take the phentermine and not lose the little muscle I've made. Calories really aren't a big deal for me, I struggle to eat my 3100 a day sometimes cause I was told to eat everything I can but don't go over.
Now I'm hearing you can have a reduced calorie diet and still maintain your muscles, phentermine would just help with that, so I'm trying to decide if I should get on board or tell the doc to stuff it.1 -
First off, you will likely have pretty reasonable amounts of muscle.
Most people I know (of either sex) would struggle to do squats with 140lb. You do that every time you stand up ! (Well, not quite the same, but you get the idea.)
Has your doctor explained why the quicker weight loss?
If it looks like 1lb a week is working for you and you don't mind the long haul and it DOES work - remembering this around three years of dedication to under-eating - then on the surface, I don't see any reason to deviate from that.
The more you've got to lose, however, the more you CAN lose with out the worry of muscle loss.
I recently lost 2lb a week for 20 weeks. I did have some noticable strength loss - 10% or so initially, then another 10% on the squats when I did an ultra marathon. I've regained that 10% from the ultra now, but not the rest yet - however, I'm only JUST into a surplus (two days) from slowly upping my calories and I reckon I stopped in the low teens body fat.
Low weight and high rep workouts are about endurance - more towards a cardio workout. I expect you'll do better maintaining muscle with high weight and low rep workout.0 -
Well it may be a case of wanting my cake and eating it too... I want to do the low weight high rep workout, it makes me feel good, probably because of the hormone release and it makes me sweat and pant like crazy, something I could only match on a bike cause I can't run at my size. I just don't want to lose muscle.
I'm 390 lbs so yes I am lifting at least 140 maybe more every time I get up, and I do the following workout, which means I'm doing 90 reps of that every tue - thur - sat...
I lift for 1 hour a day, 6 days a week, and here is my circuit:
Monday - Wednesday - Friday:
Bicep Curl = 90 Reps at 50lbs
Back Extension = 90 Reps at 170lbs
Calf Raises = 90 Reps at 230lbs
Pull Downs = 90 Reps at 90lbs
Row = 90 Reps at 90lbs
Ab Press = 90 Reps at 130lbs
Tuesday - Thursday - Saturday:
Tricep Extensions = 90 Reps at 50lbs
Hamstring Curls = 90 Reps at 110lbs
Fly = 90 Reps at 90lbs
Delts = 90 Reps at 50lbs
Squats = 90 Reps at 390lbs
Overhead Press = 90 Reps at 20lbs
Chest Press = 90 Reps at 50lbs
All of the reps are in 15 rep sets 3 sets per machine in a loop of 6 machines on the m - w - f and 7 on t - th - sa and I repeat that after I finish 1 circuit.0 -
Phentermine works for about a month then your body adjusts to it.0
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I'm not a doctorologist or anything, but I've lost weight, taken phentermine, and lift weights. The only thing phentermine should do is reduce your appetite and provide a slight boost to your metabolism. If you're having a difficult time keeping your calories at a deficit, phenetermine can (temporarily) help. If you're not having a difficult time in that area, phenetermine doesn't really have anything to offer.
If you're losing weight on 3100 calories a day with workouts 6 days a week, I think that's awesome. But I question what the purpose of dropping that to 1600 calories or 1800 calories would be. If you're losing a pound a week, you should already be at about a 500 calorie deficit each day. If my math is correct, switching to a diet of 1800 calories per day, and maintaining the same workout routine, would put you at a total weekly deficit of 12600 calories. So roughly 3.6 lbs of weight loss each week. This is just my opinion, but I don't think that's healthy at all.
With everything I've read about maintaining muscle mass in a caloric deficit, I don't think it's an issue provided you strength train and eat adequate protein. You might build new muscle during that newbie phase where your body can build the muscle as it breaks down the fat, but that's sort of a hotly debated topic and not everyone thinks its possible. But maintenance? I don't think there are any issues there provided the previously mentioned conditions are met.
Did the doctor suggest the 1600-1800 calorie a day diet? Or simply say, "Hey, take this pill. It's awesome!" and try to sell you on a program? If you're happy with what you're already doing, you're healthy, you're seeing results, why would you want to mess with that? Just because the doctor suggests it doesn't mean you have to do it.0 -
Why change what is working by adding a pill? Doctor Schmoctor, he must be benefitting from the sale or something. Honestly, if what you are doing is getting you a lb a week, just keep doing that!0
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Precisely what I wanted to hear folks, thanks! I'll tell the doc to shove his pills, and keep winning on my own.0
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Well it may be a case of wanting my cake and eating it too... I want to do the low weight high rep workout, it makes me feel good, probably because of the hormone release and it makes me sweat and pant like crazy, something I could only match on a bike cause I can't run at my size. I just don't want to lose muscle.
I'm 390 lbs so yes I am lifting at least 140 maybe more every time I get up, and I do the following workout, which means I'm doing 90 reps of that every tue - thur - sat...
I lift for 1 hour a day, 6 days a week, and here is my circuit:
Monday - Wednesday - Friday:
Bicep Curl = 90 Reps at 50lbs
Back Extension = 90 Reps at 170lbs
Calf Raises = 90 Reps at 230lbs
Pull Downs = 90 Reps at 90lbs
Row = 90 Reps at 90lbs
Ab Press = 90 Reps at 130lbs
Tuesday - Thursday - Saturday:
Tricep Extensions = 90 Reps at 50lbs
Hamstring Curls = 90 Reps at 110lbs
Fly = 90 Reps at 90lbs
Delts = 90 Reps at 50lbs
Squats = 90 Reps at 390lbs
Overhead Press = 90 Reps at 20lbs
Chest Press = 90 Reps at 50lbs
All of the reps are in 15 rep sets 3 sets per machine in a loop of 6 machines on the m - w - f and 7 on t - th - sa and I repeat that after I finish 1 circuit.
I'm not an expert, personal trainer, or anything like that! But... some thoughts to consider and maybe others with more knowledge can chime in:
1) Everything I've read suggests that doing that many reps isn't necessarily productive. How did you settle on 15 as the number? What about doing 5 sets of 5 reps?
2) Is your workout always the same? Do you ever increase the weight? You have to increase the weight you're lifting if you want to progress and be able to lift more. So if you do 50 lb bicep curls one day, but the next time try to do 55 lbs, then 60 lbs, etc.0 -
Precisely what I wanted to hear folks, thanks! I'll tell the doc to shove his pills, and keep winning on my own.
Excellent choice! You will be better off in the end!0 -
Precisely what I wanted to hear folks, thanks! I'll tell the doc to shove his pills, and keep winning on my own.
Sounds like a plan! Unless the doctor has more compelling reasons for why you need to alter your program, why change what works for you?0 -
Precisely what I wanted to hear folks, thanks! I'll tell the doc to shove his pills, and keep winning on my own.
Yes, you'll be better off without the pills.
It sounds like you're on the right track anyhow.
I'm not an expert, but I am not sure on the low weight high rep thing. I've actually heard the opposite.0 -
Precisely what I wanted to hear folks, thanks! I'll tell the doc to shove his pills, and keep winning on my own.
Sounds like you're doing an outstanding job on you own without the drugs. I'm not keen on ingesting any substance that has the word fatal in possible side effects. If your doc wants you to lose more quickly maybe drop down to 2,600 cal per day.0 -
Keep your weight training up, while keeping your protein at the same amount.
Adding in the phentramine WILL help you accelerate your metabolism and help shed the pounds faster.
If you notice your strength going down in the gym, up your protein.0 -
Have you tried printing out the MFP logs and bringing them in with you?0
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FYI people phentramine is pharmaceutical grade ephedrine.
Its one of the most COMMONLY prescribed substance for weight loss.
YOU shouldnt change your calorie level at all....0 -
Have you tried printing out the MFP logs and bringing them in with you?
Wouldnt really have a benefit... Its a doctor like a GP, not a dietitian right?0 -
Well it may be a case of wanting my cake and eating it too... I want to do the low weight high rep workout, it makes me feel good, probably because of the hormone release and it makes me sweat and pant like crazy, something I could only match on a bike cause I can't run at my size. I just don't want to lose muscle.
I'm 390 lbs so yes I am lifting at least 140 maybe more every time I get up, and I do the following workout, which means I'm doing 90 reps of that every tue - thur - sat...
I lift for 1 hour a day, 6 days a week, and here is my circuit:
Monday - Wednesday - Friday:
Bicep Curl = 90 Reps at 50lbs
Back Extension = 90 Reps at 170lbs
Calf Raises = 90 Reps at 230lbs
Pull Downs = 90 Reps at 90lbs
Row = 90 Reps at 90lbs
Ab Press = 90 Reps at 130lbs
Tuesday - Thursday - Saturday:
Tricep Extensions = 90 Reps at 50lbs
Hamstring Curls = 90 Reps at 110lbs
Fly = 90 Reps at 90lbs
Delts = 90 Reps at 50lbs
Squats = 90 Reps at 390lbs
Overhead Press = 90 Reps at 20lbs
Chest Press = 90 Reps at 50lbs
All of the reps are in 15 rep sets 3 sets per machine in a loop of 6 machines on the m - w - f and 7 on t - th - sa and I repeat that after I finish 1 circuit.
I'm not an expert, personal trainer, or anything like that! But... some thoughts to consider and maybe others with more knowledge can chime in:
1) Everything I've read suggests that doing that many reps isn't necessarily productive. How did you settle on 15 as the number? What about doing 5 sets of 5 reps?
2) Is your workout always the same? Do you ever increase the weight? You have to increase the weight you're lifting if you want to progress and be able to lift more. So if you do 50 lb bicep curls one day, but the next time try to do 55 lbs, then 60 lbs, etc.
No, that's the weight I started with and I haven't increased it since. The point was the maintain or even build a small amount of newbie muscle while burning as much calories as possible. I would do it over a bike any day. The high reps with the relatively low weight, I could easily curl way more, was just designed to make me sweat and get my heart rate up for an extended period of time. The weight if anything has been a little harder to lift as I continue, but I think that's just due to fatigue with how often I'm lifting. Most days I feel SO good after going to the gym.0 -
FYI people phentramine is pharmaceutical grade ephedrine.
Its one of the most COMMONLY prescribed substance for weight loss.
YOU shouldnt change your calorie level at all....
I'm pretty sure everyone knows what it is, however, if the OP doesn't want to take it, then he shouldn't take it.
Plus, it's not a sustainable plan. You have to stop taking the pill at some point. Most MD's only prescribe for 3 months due to the fact it can cause liver damage. So it's better to make lifestyle changes that you can sustain the rest of your life.0 -
Did you ask your doctor why he recommended phentermine? Obviously I don't know, but I'd guess he's coming from a place of concern for you, and he probably does see a lot of people who say they're doing the work but never do. In that case, I'd ask to try it your way for a month or two, then reevaluate. Let him know that you appreciate the seriousness of the situation and would rather have X amount of time to work on it yourself before you consider medication. That may be enough to address his concerns and let him know that you're serious about making changes.
You're losing a pound a week, pretty consistently, at 3100, right? It would probably be okay to cut another 250-500 from that for a month and see how you do with that. I wouldn't go to 1600-1800, though! Cutting your intake almost in half sounds a little insane, to be honest, and it sounds like a setup for burnout.1 -
Have you tried printing out the MFP logs and bringing them in with you?
Wouldnt really have a benefit... Its a doctor like a GP, not a dietitian right?
It might help to demonstrate his commitment to eating right and working out.0 -
Hey buddy, congrats on your succes thus far! I personally would not take the phentermine, especially as you are doing just fine so far.
You -could- reduce your calories by another 300-500 with few adverse effects. And at this point I would not worry too much about muscle loss beyond anything reasonable.
And continue doing what you are doing for now.0 -
I have almost no appetite like I use to, once I started taking 220 + grams of protein a day, I basically don't feel hungry anymore. I actually struggle to eat that much food, which is why I was wondering if I could cut it down. I'm not sure I could maintain 1800 but it'd be fun to try for a little bit.
If I eat 3 relatively large meals and drink 2 shakes a day I can easily hit those macros and be just fine, I was mostly worried about if that would wreck my system. 3100 just feels so well for a lack of better word fat... There are days I struggle to stay under 3100 but those are the days I am tired and lazy and just want to eat out for 3 meals... Since I found Fiber One, even though I know it has a lot of carbs and gluten, I haven't had a problem with the high protein diet like I use to before I had the appropriate amount of fiber. I honestly really enjoy eating meat, and I'm not a huge fan of greens so the fiber is perfect.
The truth is I'm epicly huge, and 3100 is still a 500 deficit, my expectations of myself and weight loss were way out of reality when I started, but since then I've accepted this is going to be a few year process.0 -
I'm pretty sure everyone knows what it is, however, if the OP doesn't want to take it, then he shouldn't take it.
Second response mentioned googling it...
Hes obviously on the fence about it if he made a thread about it.
Just letting him know it WILL help him accelerate his results.
He needs to have a high tolerance for stimulants though as thats really the biggest concern to worry about.0 -
High five on your progress so far. You're doing great! You seem to have the right attitude and desire that I don't think you'll have any problem reaching your goal!0
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You sound like my brother in law...
Dudes 6'5 and 310lbs. BEAST with alot of muscle.
Hes recently cut down to 275 and says he feels amazing.
(he takes phentramine lol)0 -
Well it may be a case of wanting my cake and eating it too... I want to do the low weight high rep workout, it makes me feel good, probably because of the hormone release and it makes me sweat and pant like crazy, something I could only match on a bike cause I can't run at my size. I just don't want to lose muscle.
I'm 390 lbs so yes I am lifting at least 140 maybe more every time I get up, and I do the following workout, which means I'm doing 90 reps of that every tue - thur - sat...
I lift for 1 hour a day, 6 days a week, and here is my circuit:
Monday - Wednesday - Friday:
Bicep Curl = 90 Reps at 50lbs
Back Extension = 90 Reps at 170lbs
Calf Raises = 90 Reps at 230lbs
Pull Downs = 90 Reps at 90lbs
Row = 90 Reps at 90lbs
Ab Press = 90 Reps at 130lbs
Tuesday - Thursday - Saturday:
Tricep Extensions = 90 Reps at 50lbs
Hamstring Curls = 90 Reps at 110lbs
Fly = 90 Reps at 90lbs
Delts = 90 Reps at 50lbs
Squats = 90 Reps at 390lbs
Overhead Press = 90 Reps at 20lbs
Chest Press = 90 Reps at 50lbs
All of the reps are in 15 rep sets 3 sets per machine in a loop of 6 machines on the m - w - f and 7 on t - th - sa and I repeat that after I finish 1 circuit.
I'm not an expert, personal trainer, or anything like that! But... some thoughts to consider and maybe others with more knowledge can chime in:
1) Everything I've read suggests that doing that many reps isn't necessarily productive. How did you settle on 15 as the number? What about doing 5 sets of 5 reps?
2) Is your workout always the same? Do you ever increase the weight? You have to increase the weight you're lifting if you want to progress and be able to lift more. So if you do 50 lb bicep curls one day, but the next time try to do 55 lbs, then 60 lbs, etc.
No, that's the weight I started with and I haven't increased it since. The point was the maintain or even build a small amount of newbie muscle while burning as much calories as possible. I would do it over a bike any day. The high reps with the relatively low weight, I could easily curl way more, was just designed to make me sweat and get my heart rate up for an extended period of time. The weight if anything has been a little harder to lift as I continue, but I think that's just due to fatigue with how often I'm lifting. Most days I feel SO good after going to the gym.
I'll be honest, I think you are doing yourself a disservice with this routine. Low weight high reps is for muscle endurance, not increasing strength, and is really not effective for weight loss. LWHR is what women were told to do for years to get that "toned" look.*eyeroll* It's pretty much useless imo, unless you are participating in some sport or activity where muscle endurance like this would be needed.
I think you would be much better off with a progressive loading program for your goal of maintaining muscle, gaining strength and burning fat.1 -
I have almost no appetite like I use to, once I started taking 220 + grams of protein a day, I basically don't feel hungry anymore. I actually struggle to eat that much food, which is why I was wondering if I could cut it down. I'm not sure I could maintain 1800 but it'd be fun to try for a little bit.
If I eat 3 relatively large meals and drink 2 shakes a day I can easily hit those macros and be just fine, I was mostly worried about if that would wreck my system. 3100 just feels so well for a lack of better word fat... There are days I struggle to stay under 3100 but those are the days I am tired and lazy and just want to eat out for 3 meals... Since I found Fiber One, even though I know it has a lot of carbs and gluten, I haven't had a problem with the high protein diet like I use to before I had the appropriate amount of fiber. I honestly really enjoy eating meat, and I'm not a huge fan of greens so the fiber is perfect.
The truth is I'm epicly huge, and 3100 is still a 500 deficit, my expectations of myself and weight loss were way out of reality when I started, but since then I've accepted this is going to be a few year process.
1800 calories will suck. I maintain at 2050 and 1800 sucks for me.
I was really surprised at the number of calories I needed in the beginning as well. The thing is, I'd tried to lose the weight for two years, only to binge and give up because I kept trying to eat too little. Once I was eating, and losing, at a sustainable rate it all became do-able for me.
You aren't going to get to your goal weight for more than a year, but you'll be surprised at how soon you notice a difference. A 10% loss will be a big deal. Your half-way point will feel like a transformation. It's a process.0 -
I'll be honest, I think you are doing yourself a disservice with this routine. Low weight high reps is for muscle endurance, not increasing strength, and is really not effective for weight loss. LWHR is what women were told to do for years to get that "toned" look.*eyeroll* It's pretty much useless imo, unless you are participating in some sport or activity where muscle endurance like this would be needed.
I think you would be much better off with a progressive loading program for your goal of maintaining muscle, gaining strength and burning fat.
I was thinking this, just wasn't 100% positive.
A couple progressive strength programs you could look into - stronglifts 5x5 and starting strength.0 -
So in essence I'd be removing the extra 500 calories from my diet by changing my workout to not really burn calories but instead build muscles? Seems counter productive... Are you saying I'll actually burn MORE calories by lifting heavier weight fewer times?0
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