OA but not religious?

Religion and God are wholly severable.
Religion is a system of mankind. God is transcendental.
Religion is an organized effort of man. Religion is someone else's God.

God does not depend on man.

When you approach OA, they will not try to give you religion - stated differently, "their" God.

She didn't say she wasn't religious. She said she didn't believe in a god or a higher power, which would make their 12 steps nearly impossible.

I was replying to/expounding upon this comment upthread:

I want to be cautious here because I sense I’m walking on thin ice whenever any issue regarding a religious institution or belief is brought up in a post. So, let me address it this way:

First, Overeaters Anonymous claims NOT to be a religious organization. In their own words they state: “OA is not a religious society, since it requires no definite religious belief as a condition of membership. OA has among its membership people of many religious faiths as well as atheists and agnostics.”

Shame on me for not quoting.

Not believing in a higher power is not a barrier. A refusal to consider the notion, is.

My thought about your dilemma is that you haven't been able to do it yourself, so it may be time to consider that there is a God, and He can help. There are so many stories out there of people coming to the end of their own abilities and finding that God can fix what we cannot. God healed my gallbladder when 5 doctors said it would have to be removed, and also he healed some personal, emotional hurts I'd dealt with for 20+ years. I thought I'd always have that scar, but suddenly, it was gone. God sent his son Jesus to die for us so that we can be reconciled to God. Jesus said, there is no greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Every single person who doesn't believe in god HAS considered the idea of a god. Your attempt at being condescending is appalling.

How about buddhism, which has faith and spirituality yet no god at all?

A higher power doesn't need to be a guy on a cloud handing out favors or punishments. It doesn't need to be a guy on a cloud at all. Or a guy. Or an anything.

The functional notion of 'higher power' in this context is intended to be infinitely flexible (according to documentary evidence of the people who created the notion). The 12 steps were created in a time in American history where monotheistic Christianity was the order of the day. The program stemmed from the principals of the Oxford Groups which were quite specifically Christian. Funnily enough, AA broke away from that. They did their best, despite the limitations of their 1930s cultuer and lexicon, to express the higher power as an infinitely accessible, infinitely variable and highly personal concept.

Unfortunately in their use of language, they were far from perfect seperating the concept of a higher power from the judeochristian external, paternal, omnipotent male archetype.

Long story short, do not needlessly adopt the limitations and ignorance of others.

My thought about your dilemma is that you haven't been able to do it yourself, so it may be time to consider that there is a God, and He can help. There are so many stories out there of people coming to the end of their own abilities and finding that God can fix what we cannot. God healed my gallbladder when 5 doctors said it would have to be removed, and also he healed some personal, emotional hurts I'd dealt with for 20+ years. I thought I'd always have that scar, but suddenly, it was gone. God sent his son Jesus to die for us so that we can be reconciled to God. Jesus said, there is no greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Every single person who doesn't believe in god HAS considered the idea of a god. Your attempt at being condescending is appalling.

How about buddhism, which has faith and spirituality yet no god at all?

A higher power doesn't need to be a guy on a cloud handing out favors or punishments. It doesn't need to be a guy on a cloud at all. Or a guy. Or an anything.

The functional notion of 'higher power' in this context is intended to be infinitely flexible (according to documentary evidence of the people who created the notion). The 12 steps were created in a time in American history where monotheistic Christianity was the order of the day. The program stemmed from the principals of the Oxford Groups which were quite specifically Christian. Funnily enough, AA broke away from that. They did their best, despite the limitations of their 1930s cultuer and lexicon, to express the higher power as an infinitely accessible, infinitely variable and highly personal concept.

Unfortunately in their use of language, they were far from perfect seperating the concept of a higher power from the judeochristian external, paternal, omnipotent male archetype.

Long story short, do not needlessly adopt the limitations and ignorance of others.

I like you and we have been friends for a long time, but I really feel like you are trying to push this on her and insisting if she doesn't go she's ignorant. I know that's not what you are saying, but that's the way it is coming across. The reason there are a variety of treatments for mental health issues (eating disorders of all varieties included) is because not everyone responds to treatment in the same way. We are wired different. Some people need touchy feely, some people need spiritual, some people need tough love, some people need to be reminded that they are badass.

I can agree to being open to spirituality when it comes to the context of a the individual questioning the meaning of personal existence and attempting to define what their function or role in the world is. I do agree with the Buddhist Noble Eightfold Path, but it's about peace and empowerment. You make the changes to correct thinking/behaviors and produce peace. The OA 12 step program is about handing over control and letting someone else take the burden from you.

Never been to OA, but I have been to AA and NA meetings.

Basically, they would prefer that you believe in a higher power of some kind. However, they won't turn anyone away if you don't. It's just that the program is designed around faith, and a belief that you can draw from a source of strength other than yourself.

this belief is similar to the Ancient Free and Accepted Mason's (A.F.& A.M.), belief in deity (higher power) is all that is required to join. you don't discuss religion or politics, but you have to believe to join. it is up to you what you believe and your opinions are yours. that is all

My thought about your dilemma is that you haven't been able to do it yourself, so it may be time to consider that there is a God, and He can help. There are so many stories out there of people coming to the end of their own abilities and finding that God can fix what we cannot. God healed my gallbladder when 5 doctors said it would have to be removed, and also he healed some personal, emotional hurts I'd dealt with for 20+ years. I thought I'd always have that scar, but suddenly, it was gone. God sent his son Jesus to die for us so that we can be reconciled to God. Jesus said, there is no greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Every single person who doesn't believe in god HAS considered the idea of a god. Your attempt at being condescending is appalling.

How about buddhism, which has faith and spirituality yet no god at all?

A higher power doesn't need to be a guy on a cloud handing out favors or punishments. It doesn't need to be a guy on a cloud at all. Or a guy. Or an anything.

The functional notion of 'higher power' in this context is intended to be infinitely flexible (according to documentary evidence of the people who created the notion). The 12 steps were created in a time in American history where monotheistic Christianity was the order of the day. The program stemmed from the principals of the Oxford Groups which were quite specifically Christian. Funnily enough, AA broke away from that. They did their best, despite the limitations of their 1930s cultuer and lexicon, to express the higher power as an infinitely accessible, infinitely variable and highly personal concept.

Unfortunately in their use of language, they were far from perfect seperating the concept of a higher power from the judeochristian external, paternal, omnipotent male archetype.

Long story short, do not needlessly adopt the limitations and ignorance of others.

I like you and we have been friends for a long time, but I really feel like you are trying to push this on her and insisting if she doesn't go she's ignorant. I know that's not what you are saying, but that's the way it is coming across. The reason there are a variety of treatments for mental health issues (eating disorders of all varieties included) is because not everyone responds to treatment in the same way. We are wired different. Some people need touchy feely, some people need spiritual, some people need tough love, some people need to be reminded that they are badass.

I can agree to being open to spirituality when it comes to the context of a the individual questioning the meaning of personal existence and attempting to define what their function or role in the world is. I do agree with the Buddhist Noble Eightfold Path, but it's about peace and empowerment. You make the changes to correct thinking/behaviors and produce peace. The OA 12 step program is about handing over control and letting someone else take the burden from you.

Funny enough, the limitations and ignorance that I was referring to are not those of people who aren't certain or disbelieve; I was referring to the limitations and ignorance created within religion and that come from buying someone else's idea of a god.

However, I DID quote this time, to make it painfully clear to whom I was responding, & that wasn't to the OP. A poster suggested Jesus/God (the judeochristian concept of god/faith/sprituality) was the solution. A respondent stated that obviously that had already been considered and that it was condescending for someone to imply that it hasn't.

My response was (intended to mean) that the rejection of a single approach to god needn't eliminate every possible concept or approach to spirituality.

And following all of that, the whole purpose - in my understanding - of the belief in a higher power associated with these programs is to get people to just 'drop the rock'. A lot of people take solace in the idea of handing the rock over to someone or something, rather than just dropping it on the spot.

I really could go on an on, but at the end of the day, I'm encouraging open-mindedness.

My thought about your dilemma is that you haven't been able to do it yourself, so it may be time to consider that there is a God, and He can help. There are so many stories out there of people coming to the end of their own abilities and finding that God can fix what we cannot. God healed my gallbladder when 5 doctors said it would have to be removed, and also he healed some personal, emotional hurts I'd dealt with for 20+ years. I thought I'd always have that scar, but suddenly, it was gone. God sent his son Jesus to die for us so that we can be reconciled to God. Jesus said, there is no greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Every single person who doesn't believe in god HAS considered the idea of a god. Your attempt at being condescending is appalling.

How about buddhism, which has faith and spirituality yet no god at all?

A higher power doesn't need to be a guy on a cloud handing out favors or punishments. It doesn't need to be a guy on a cloud at all. Or a guy. Or an anything.

The functional notion of 'higher power' in this context is intended to be infinitely flexible (according to documentary evidence of the people who created the notion). The 12 steps were created in a time in American history where monotheistic Christianity was the order of the day. The program stemmed from the principals of the Oxford Groups which were quite specifically Christian. Funnily enough, AA broke away from that. They did their best, despite the limitations of their 1930s cultuer and lexicon, to express the higher power as an infinitely accessible, infinitely variable and highly personal concept.

Unfortunately in their use of language, they were far from perfect seperating the concept of a higher power from the judeochristian external, paternal, omnipotent male archetype.

Long story short, do not needlessly adopt the limitations and ignorance of others.

I like you and we have been friends for a long time, but I really feel like you are trying to push this on her and insisting if she doesn't go she's ignorant. I know that's not what you are saying, but that's the way it is coming across. The reason there are a variety of treatments for mental health issues (eating disorders of all varieties included) is because not everyone responds to treatment in the same way. We are wired different. Some people need touchy feely, some people need spiritual, some people need tough love, some people need to be reminded that they are badass.

I can agree to being open to spirituality when it comes to the context of a the individual questioning the meaning of personal existence and attempting to define what their function or role in the world is. I do agree with the Buddhist Noble Eightfold Path, but it's about peace and empowerment. You make the changes to correct thinking/behaviors and produce peace. The OA 12 step program is about handing over control and letting someone else take the burden from you.

Funny enough, the limitations and ignorance that I was referring to are not those of people who aren't certain or disbelieve; I was referring to the limitations and ignorance created within religion and that come from buying someone else's idea of a god.

However, I DID quote this time, to make it painfully clear to whom I was responding, & that wasn't to the OP. A poster suggested Jesus/God (the judeochristian concept of god/faith/sprituality) was the solution. A respondent stated that obviously that had already been considered and that it was condescending for someone to imply that it hasn't.

My response was (intended to mean) that the rejection of a single approach to god needn't eliminate every possible concept or approach to spirituality.

And following all of that, the whole purpose - in my understanding - of the belief in a higher power associated with these programs is to get people to just 'drop the rock'. A lot of people take solace in the idea of handing the rock over to someone or something, rather than just dropping it on the spot.

I really could go on an on, but at the end of the day, I'm encouraging open-mindedness.

I got what you meant. I totally didn't understand how usmcmp misinterpretted it. But I guess we all have our off-days.

If I may sum up your point for you, you are saying that the OP should stay open-minded about OA even if she is not open-minded about religion. Amirite?

Jumping in a little late. I belong to this program and do not believe in god. I am pretty anti religion but this is really the only thing that has worked for me, a food addict. And there are members with a variety of beliefs and non beliefs who have had a reprieve from the obsession with food. I have never felt anyone pushing religion. Yes, they close with non denominational prayers which you don't have to participate in. If you can't stop eating or are binging/purging or are obsessed with food, I recommend trying it. I know people who have maintained significant weight losses for years (20 years for one guy who has lost 110 pounds).

If anyone is interested in chatting, please let me know.

I think it may depend on the group. Maybe it is different because I never needed an addiction program. I did go to alanon, and it was just a support group. We never did the steps as part of the group. It was up to us. The only steps I did were the moral inventory and talking to others about wrongs (it is reiterated in a series of steps). I'm an agnostic atheist, but don't have any issue with personal spirituality such as meditation (I just enjoy the experiences and don't assign any divine meaning or explanations).

I would have a hard time with the group if I was expected to believe in God. Because I have already taken that route and come to where I am at with it. I am agnostic (meaning that I don't claim to know anything that I can't possibly know). The religious and spiritual concepts of healing are the opposite of helpful to me. I do like some buddhism.

The whole higher power thing is a sticking point for a lot of people, and unfortunately keeps some people from ever checking out a 12-step program in person.

Let me just say the "Twelve Steps" in the concise text that several people have posted, is the summation of 164 pages of text, and therefore pretty easy to take out of context if you are just looking at the Twelve Steps themselves.

Anywho, there is a lot of wiggle room for those who don't believe in a standard religion. Many forms of a higher power talked about in a 12 step meeting are as followed:
The group itself
Group Of Drunks
Good Orderly Direction
Mother Nature
Electricity
The rain
Moral Compass
Relatives who have passed on
Science
and the list goes on and on

Also, in the literature the word "God" becomes synonymous with "Higher Power" And "God as we understand him". Otherwise the book would be twice as long! The word "God" was literally used to save paper, the book was named the Big Book because in 1939 the paper used to print the book was thick and the book was HUGE.

My higher power is processed carbs.