Getting to the end of my rope - really need support system
Replies
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you're only young, its not much of a stretch to think you'd need 4000 cals to be in a surplus! peanut butter and full fat milk for you!0
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Hey -
I just read your whole message, Then looked at your picture.......... You have nothing to worry about!!!
Just work out your BMR & TDEE, Then eat at your TDEE and lift heavy weights!!!!
Lose some body fat, get some definition & build some muscles....... : )
Take progress pictures, SOD the scale!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0 -
It sounds like you're getting so stuck on finding the most perfect, exact, efficient recipe for bulking that you're paralyzing yourself with information. If you really do want to bulk (and I'm not entirely sure that you do, but that's a different question), stop researching, get off the internet and do it.
You've clearly researched a bunch of different programs. Pick whatever one sounds best, right now, and commit to following it for four weeks (longer would be better, obviously, but four weeks should be long enough to be able to tell if that program suits you or if you hate it). Pick a calorie goal and commit to hitting it for four weeks.
Your body needs time to respond to what you're asking it to do. You cannot keep switching things up every week or two and expect to see results. Your weight will go up and down throughout the process -- it's the overall trend line that is important.0 -
What are your stats?
What body fat percentage are you?
Why are your lifts stalling?
Are you actually following a progressive lifting program?
Two years, you've been learning all about lifting and health, it's not wasted!
It took me 24 years to get my body back!
My stats are 6'2 / 186 lbs / ~15-16% bf.
I have no idea why my lifts are stalling. I have been doing the same lifts for a while. About 3 months ago I changed up my routine to be more of a full body 3x/week vs my p/p/l I was doing before. But the lifts are the same (although there are fewer now).
I want to get on an ACTUAL program and not one a trainer drums up for me in 5 minutes. I was told ICF 5x5 was good. Do you know any others and how they compare to ones like All Pros, SS, StrongLifts, Madcows, Texas Method, etc?
What are your current maxes for the big three? Or big four if you prefer. If you've been lifting for 2 years, a beginner program is probably not going to be optimal. I'm curious to see where you're at to give my suggestion though.
Well I don't have my maxes tested/calculated, but to give you a rough idea of what I have:
SQUAT: 160x4x6 (only have a smith machine at my work so I don't include bar on this. Not optimal, I know but I do with what I can)
BENCH: 155x4x8
DL: 155x4x6
I hadn't done Squat/DL until a month or two ago, and I was doing DB press for my bench, but stalled and switched over to the BB. So my lifts are pretty weak to be considered Intermediate. But I'm confused if I could still benefit from a beginner routine.0 -
Thank you everyone for your responses. I guess I really am not eating enough - it's just scary to think I would be consuming that many calories, and the fat that might come along with it. I feel like at this point I am in no position to put on any extra fat, but I guess if I monitor things it won't be so bad?0
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It sounds like you're getting so stuck on finding the most perfect, exact, efficient recipe for bulking that you're paralyzing yourself with information. If you really do want to bulk (and I'm not entirely sure that you do, but that's a different question), stop researching, get off the internet and do it.
this.
common problem.
You need to trust the numbers and go for it- it doesn't happen over night- it's a slow process and if you do not like something- it's very easy to change and go up or down.
Also- listen to Waldo- he's the man.0 -
Definitely in the beginner routine situation.0
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What are your stats?
What body fat percentage are you?
Why are your lifts stalling?
Are you actually following a progressive lifting program?
Two years, you've been learning all about lifting and health, it's not wasted!
It took me 24 years to get my body back!
My stats are 6'2 / 186 lbs / ~15-16% bf.
I have no idea why my lifts are stalling. I have been doing the same lifts for a while. About 3 months ago I changed up my routine to be more of a full body 3x/week vs my p/p/l I was doing before. But the lifts are the same (although there are fewer now).
I want to get on an ACTUAL program and not one a trainer drums up for me in 5 minutes. I was told ICF 5x5 was good. Do you know any others and how they compare to ones like All Pros, SS, StrongLifts, Madcows, Texas Method, etc?
What are your current maxes for the big three? Or big four if you prefer. If you've been lifting for 2 years, a beginner program is probably not going to be optimal. I'm curious to see where you're at to give my suggestion though.
Well I don't have my maxes tested/calculated, but to give you a rough idea of what I have:
SQUAT: 160x4x6 (only have a smith machine at my work so I don't include bar on this. Not optimal, I know but I do with what I can)
BENCH: 155x4x8
DL: 155x4x6
I hadn't done Squat/DL until a month or two ago, and I was doing DB press for my bench, but stalled and switched over to the BB. So my lifts are pretty weak to be considered Intermediate. But I'm confused if I could still benefit from a beginner routine.
Given your lifts I think you'll be fine with almost anything. If you want a beginner routine pick allpro, ss, sl, icf. If you want something more intermediate, step into madcow, texas method or 5/3/1 (or similar).
You really can't go wrong. If you do a beginner program and it starts to become too much, then switch to something more intermediate. There's no real harm.0 -
Thank you everyone for your responses. I guess I really am not eating enough - it's just scary to think I would be consuming that many calories, and the fat that might come along with it. I feel like at this point I am in no position to put on any extra fat, but I guess if I monitor things it won't be so bad?
You really have to put that out of your head if you want to bulk. BEST CASE SCENARIO you gain 50/50 fat and muscle while bulking. REGARDLESS if you are bulking at 2000 or 4000 calories (depending on what your actual TDEE is). Just keep the surplus reasonable, aim to gain 3-5lbs a month (tops) or so and ride it out. If you don't want to gain any fat then don't bulk. There's no way around it. If that's the case, then eat at maintenance and lift. Re-assess in 6 months to a year.0 -
Thank you everyone for your responses. I guess I really am not eating enough - it's just scary to think I would be consuming that many calories, and the fat that might come along with it. I feel like at this point I am in no position to put on any extra fat, but I guess if I monitor things it won't be so bad?
You really have to put that out of your head if you want to bulk. BEST CASE SCENARIO you gain 50/50 fat and muscle while bulking. REGARDLESS if you are bulking at 2000 or 4000 calories (depending on what your actual TDEE is). Just keep the surplus reasonable, aim to gain 3-5lbs a month (tops) or so and ride it out. If you don't want to gain any fat then don't bulk. There's no way around it. If that's the case, then eat at maintenance and lift. Re-assess in 6 months to a year.
truth.0 -
My husband used the "six pack shortcuts" program. Followed all of their diet advice, too. He never bought prepared meals; he made and portioned them all himself. Basically, chicken, rice and vegetables without any kind of sauce 3-4 times a day. PLAIN (no milk or sugar) oatmeal and eggs for breakfast, and ground beef with potatoes and vegetables for dinner (again, no sauce). He drank about a gallon of water a day and continually added more weight to each lift each week. Basically, his diet consisted of no sugar and almost no fats, just protein and carbs, really. He did "cheat" on weekends and have a few beers and some good food, but mostly he just stuck to it. Lifting 5-6 days a week. I don't really know what will work for you and what you are eating or what kinds of lifting you are doing, but this worked for him. I hope I helped.0
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Thank you everyone for your responses. I guess I really am not eating enough - it's just scary to think I would be consuming that many calories, and the fat that might come along with it. I feel like at this point I am in no position to put on any extra fat, but I guess if I monitor things it won't be so bad?
You can't bulk without gaining fat.0 -
you should check out the Hodge Twins on youtube. They would help you out. Natural bodybuilders with a healthy approach.0
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the Hodge twins debunk all those ideas, such as you got to eat a million calories and fatten up in order to bulk. They are into intermittent fasting, and working out on an empty tank in the morning, when HGH is prevalent in the blood stream.0
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Or, maybe you should take up competetive swimming, instead? The beard would have to go, though.0
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Thank you everyone for your responses. I guess I really am not eating enough - it's just scary to think I would be consuming that many calories, and the fat that might come along with it. I feel like at this point I am in no position to put on any extra fat, but I guess if I monitor things it won't be so bad?
You really have to put that out of your head if you want to bulk. BEST CASE SCENARIO you gain 50/50 fat and muscle while bulking. REGARDLESS if you are bulking at 2000 or 4000 calories (depending on what your actual TDEE is). Just keep the surplus reasonable, aim to gain 3-5lbs a month (tops) or so and ride it out. If you don't want to gain any fat then don't bulk. There's no way around it. If that's the case, then eat at maintenance and lift. Re-assess in 6 months to a year.
Yeah, I should have rephrased what I said - I know i'm bound to gain fat. What would 50/50 look like, as far as appearance goes? Or is that impossible to say? I know muscle weighs more than fat, but would that mean the appearance of fat would be greater than the appearance of muscle gained? I don't feel like I am in any condition to cut at the moment0 -
Thank you everyone for your responses. I guess I really am not eating enough - it's just scary to think I would be consuming that many calories, and the fat that might come along with it. I feel like at this point I am in no position to put on any extra fat, but I guess if I monitor things it won't be so bad?
You really have to put that out of your head if you want to bulk. BEST CASE SCENARIO you gain 50/50 fat and muscle while bulking. REGARDLESS if you are bulking at 2000 or 4000 calories (depending on what your actual TDEE is). Just keep the surplus reasonable, aim to gain 3-5lbs a month (tops) or so and ride it out. If you don't want to gain any fat then don't bulk. There's no way around it. If that's the case, then eat at maintenance and lift. Re-assess in 6 months to a year.
Yeah, I should have rephrased what I said - I know i'm bound to gain fat. What would 50/50 look like, as far as appearance goes? Or is that impossible to say? I know muscle weighs more than fat, but would that mean the appearance of fat would be greater than the appearance of muscle gained? I don't feel like I am in any condition to cut at the moment
That is an impossible question to answer. You're a 25 year old male, chances are your results will be good or great. But you won't have any idea until you do it. Consistency in diet and training will be a huge factor as well as plain old genetics. If you want a muscular appearance and you don't want to cut, this is pretty much the way to go. If you end up fatter than you want, then cut some more weight. If you end up too swole (lol), then cut back on the training and the calorie surplus. It's all pretty much trial and error for everyone on the planet.0 -
I agree that you may need to eat more (and not pay attention to immediate sometimes drastic leaps in scale weight)-- it is likely water retention and extra food in your system. So after that initial weight gain due to more food/water retention, keep track of your weight for 2-3 weeks (if you have not gained weight, then up your calories)
However, if you are NOT A NEWBIE, 4 pounds a month gain will be mostly fat. Only newbies can gain 2 ish pounds of MUSCLE a month (3 if you are lucky). So your surplus as a non-newbie does not need to be as high
But, if have not made those newbie gains (even if you have been lifting for years), you may gain 2-3 pounds of muscle a month. So a gain of 2-4 pounds of scale weight a month is ideal.0 -
I agree that you may need to eat more (and not pay attention to immediate sometimes drastic leaps in scale weight)-- it is likely water retention and extra food in your system. So after that initial weight gain due to more food/water retention, keep track of your weight for 2-3 weeks (if you have not gained weight, then up your calories)
However, if you are NOT A NEWBIE, 4 pounds a month gain will be mostly fat. Only newbies can gain 2 ish pounds of MUSCLE a month (3 if you are lucky). So your surplus as a non-newbie does not need to be as high
But, if have not made those newbie gains (even if you have been lifting for years), you may gain 2-3 pounds of muscle a month. So a gain of 2-4 pounds of scale weight a month is ideal.
That isn't how the body works. You don't gain muscle until you reach a saturation point, then extra cals go to fat. You gain both, at about the same ratio whether a small or moderate surplus, up until a tipping point. +500 might be slightly past that tipping point for a 1st-2nd time bulker, but it is close. Below that tipping point you are going slower, and little else.0 -
I agree that you may need to eat more (and not pay attention to immediate sometimes drastic leaps in scale weight)-- it is likely water retention and extra food in your system. So after that initial weight gain due to more food/water retention, keep track of your weight for 2-3 weeks (if you have not gained weight, then up your calories)
However, if you are NOT A NEWBIE, 4 pounds a month gain will be mostly fat. Only newbies can gain 2 ish pounds of MUSCLE a month (3 if you are lucky). So your surplus as a non-newbie does not need to be as high
But, if have not made those newbie gains (even if you have been lifting for years), you may gain 2-3 pounds of muscle a month. So a gain of 2-4 pounds of scale weight a month is ideal.
That isn't how the body works. You don't gain muscle until you reach a saturation point, then extra cals go to fat. You gain both, at about the same ratio whether a small or moderate surplus, up until a tipping point. +500 might be slightly past that tipping point for a 1st-2nd time bulker, but it is close. Below that tipping point you are going slower, and little else.
Yes. Listen to Waldo, he is walking talking evidence of everything he preaches! I would listen to his advice over everyone's in your case. Try and find all his posts, especially the ones with his pics of his bulk and cut history. Amazing!0
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