NEWSFLASH: McDonald’s existed back when I was a kid

OP, you are only seeing half of the problem. The other half is that low SES people live in low SES areas, where healthy food is difficult to access because the only sources of food in the area are fast food restaurants and corner stores, and even if the low SES people have a car (which is not likely) and can drive to a relatively distant grocery store, they don't know how to eat healthy and especially how to eat healthy on a budget.

I was raised in a very poor family, but my mother was raised by someone who knew how to eat healthy on a budget: canned/frozen vegetables, meat on sale, pasta/bread/rice is cheap and she always made sure our meals were balanced. No soda except as a treat, no fast food except once every few weeks as a treat, etc. Most low SES families don't have this knowledge and truly believe that fast food and cheap unhealthy food from corner stores is the best they can do or don't understand how to feed their kids (and themselves) proper nutrient balanced meals. I'm not saying it's all McDonald's fault, but it's certainly not solely an individual problem either.

I don't really get this line of thinking. You're agreeing with a post suggesting McDonalds feeds their customers "crap"... if that's the case, why do so many people eat it? You're saying people don't know how to eat "healthy"... not sure that a generic term like "healthy eating" could be any vaguer, but in the context of this discussion, we're simply talking about obesity and so ultimately we're talking overconsumption. I'm pretty sure even the dumbest, poorest American knows that you'll get fat if you shovel down multiple burgers with large fries every single day, if you aren't doing enough exercise to compensate for those calories. They may not be able to engage in a discussion about TDEE, protein requirements, and the like, but I don't buy that anyone struggles to grasp the basic concept of "if I eat too much, I'll get fat(ter)." Even if they somehow didn't know this, you could figure it out by watching yourself get fatter and fatter as you eat more and more burgers, but I'm pretty sure they don't need to self experiment to figure that out. Frankly I think it's a bit condescending to suggest that the obesity epidemic is just because they're too stupid/poor to know better. They know EXACTLY what they're doing; they just choose the short term pleasure of overconsumption, despite the long term consequences of fat gain.

Do people still do it? Of course they do. Burgers are delicious. Soda is delicious. Pizza is delicious. And they're all inexpensive to boot. But blaming McDonalds for making food so tasty that people overconsume it, rather than the people making conscious decisions and paying money to overconsume the food, is faulty logic (common today as people are so quick to blame everyone but themselves for their problems). What you're saying your family had was the ability to eat in moderation. What families that overconsume McDonalds lack is the ability to eat in moderation. McDonald's isn't to blame for that; the other families are.

At the end of the day, it IS solely the individual's responsibility to take care of his own body. You can lose, maintain or gain weight by eating at McDonalds. Which one you do is up to you.

I think you are wrong here. Actually, before joining MFP I might have agreed a little more, but it is shocking how many people know so little about nutrition.

And a "healthy diet" is easy to define. It's a diet that promotes good health. A diet of "healthy foods" that leads to obesity is not a heatlhy diet because obesity =/= good health. And it's very hard not to overeat on cheap crappy food, because cheap crappy food is not filling and leaves your body lacking in nutrition. So you hunger for more food.

Sure everyone knows if they eat too much they'll get fat. But not everyone know WHEN they are eating too much. How can they be hungry if they've eaten too much?

Of course McD is not to blame for the obesity epidemic, but to say that cheap, nutrient deficient, easily accessible food has played no role is oversimplifying the matter. Just as saying personal resposibiltiy is solely to blame is over simplifying the matter. There are so many factors at play.

You can say that about pretty much any place that sells food : Starbucks, Panera Bread.. even any sit down Restaurant.. supermarkets that sell junk food loaded with pesticides and/or junk meat (like hot dogs). That's why you have a choice. Choose wisely.

Companies will do whatever they can do make money. Many people here seem to think that's some kind of genius argument and stop their thinking there.

Consumers have power too. If consumers demand healthier food, nutritional information (as they have) and choose healthier options, companies have to change. It's a combination of personal responsibility and an understanding of consumer rights.

OP, you are only seeing half of the problem. The other half is that low SES people live in low SES areas, where healthy food is difficult to access because the only sources of food in the area are fast food restaurants and corner stores, and even if the low SES people have a car (which is not likely) and can drive to a relatively distant grocery store, they don't know how to eat healthy and especially how to eat healthy on a budget.

I was raised in a very poor family, but my mother was raised by someone who knew how to eat healthy on a budget: canned/frozen vegetables, meat on sale, pasta/bread/rice is cheap and she always made sure our meals were balanced. No soda except as a treat, no fast food except once every few weeks as a treat, etc. Most low SES families don't have this knowledge and truly believe that fast food and cheap unhealthy food from corner stores is the best they can do or don't understand how to feed their kids (and themselves) proper nutrient balanced meals. I'm not saying it's all McDonald's fault, but it's certainly not solely an individual problem either.

I don't really get this line of thinking. You're agreeing with a post suggesting McDonalds feeds their customers "crap"... if that's the case, why do so many people eat it? You're saying people don't know how to eat "healthy"... not sure that a generic term like "healthy eating" could be any vaguer, but in the context of this discussion, we're simply talking about obesity and so ultimately we're talking overconsumption. I'm pretty sure even the dumbest, poorest American knows that you'll get fat if you shovel down multiple burgers with large fries every single day, if you aren't doing enough exercise to compensate for those calories. They may not be able to engage in a discussion about TDEE, protein requirements, and the like, but I don't buy that anyone struggles to grasp the basic concept of "if I eat too much, I'll get fat(ter)." Even if they somehow didn't know this, you could figure it out by watching yourself get fatter and fatter as you eat more and more burgers, but I'm pretty sure they don't need to self experiment to figure that out. Frankly I think it's a bit condescending to suggest that the obesity epidemic is just because they're too stupid/poor to know better. They know EXACTLY what they're doing; they just choose the short term pleasure of overconsumption, despite the long term consequences of fat gain.

Do people still do it? Of course they do. Burgers are delicious. Soda is delicious. Pizza is delicious. And they're all inexpensive to boot. But blaming McDonalds for making food so tasty that people overconsume it, rather than the people making conscious decisions and paying money to overconsume the food, is faulty logic (common today as people are so quick to blame everyone but themselves for their problems). What you're saying your family had was the ability to eat in moderation. What families that overconsume McDonalds lack is the ability to eat in moderation. McDonald's isn't to blame for that; the other families are.

At the end of the day, it IS solely the individual's responsibility to take care of his own body. You can lose, maintain or gain weight by eating at McDonalds. Which one you do is up to you.

I think you are wrong here. Actually, before joining MFP I might have agreed a little more, but it is shocking how many people know so little about nutrition.

And a "healthy diet" is easy to define. It's a diet that promotes good health. A diet of "healthy foods" that leads to obesity is not a heatlhy diet because obesity =/= good health. And it's very hard not to overeat on cheap crappy food, because cheap crappy food is not filling and leaves your body lacking in nutrition. So you hunger for more food.

Sure everyone knows if they eat too much they'll get fat. But not everyone know WHEN they are eating too much. How can they be hungry if they've eaten too much?

Of course McD is not to blame for the obesity epidemic, but to say that cheap, nutrient deficient, easily accessible food has played no role is oversimplifying the matter. Just as saying personal resposibiltiy is solely to blame is over simplifying the matter. There are so many factors at play.

As I understand from your logic, it boils down to the PEOPLE not knowing when to stop eating. So then the problem becomes more of a lack of education than McDonald has anything to do with.

Not really related but I somehow think this is similar to the rape victim blaming, you know, when girls are blamed for dressing inappropriately or going to somewhere they shouldn't, and end up being raped because it's their fault. WRONG! The people who choose to rape others are to blamed. It's the PEOPLE's actions that carry consequences.
I don't know what I'm talking. Lol.

Companies will do whatever they can do make money. Many people here seem to think that's some kind of genius argument and stop their thinking there.

Consumers have power too. If consumers demand healthier food, nutritional information (as they have) and choose healthier options, companies have to change. It's a combination of personal responsibility and an understanding of consumer rights.

Yeah, actually, that is the argument though. Companies are in business to make money for their shareholders, period. Providing what the customer wants is the best way to do that. Unfortunately for your argument, consumers want McDonalds. If they didn't, the company wouldn't be in business. That's the way it works.

And what's this about consumer rights? Consumers have a right to want what they want. They have a right to buy what kind of food they want. I don't see a violation of rights here at all....

Don't worry though. You have rights too. You can choose not to eat at McDs. There now...problem solved.

Companies will do whatever they can do make money. Many people here seem to think that's some kind of genius argument and stop their thinking there.

Consumers have power too. If consumers demand healthier food, nutritional information (as they have) and choose healthier options, companies have to change. It's a combination of personal responsibility and an understanding of consumer rights.

Yeah, actually, that is the argument though. Companies are in business to make money for their shareholders, period. Providing what the customer wants is the best way to do that. Unfortunately for your argument, consumers want McDonalds. If they didn't, the company wouldn't be in business. That's the way it works.

And what's this about consumer rights? Consumers have a right to want what they want. They have a right to buy what kind of food they want. I don't see a violation of rights here at all....

Don't worry though. You have rights too. You can choose not to eat at McDs. There now...problem solved.

Why? I can choose to have their salad with their calorie-counted dressing.

Look, these are large companies that sell cheap food. Many people at cheap food, many of those people don't know a lot about nutrition. The reason we know McDonald's is bad for us is not because they told us out of love, it's because consumer rights groups worked hard and people watched documentaries about what is in their food. Back when Supersize Me was made, they did not display their nutritional information, for example.

Companies change when their consumers demand it. It's not that hard to understand.

(I know some may be offended by this post since it is a very sensitive subject, but no offense or disrespect was intended)

There is an article in the Lexington Herald Leader about a local mom who, in my opinion, is hammering the McDonald’s corporation. She is comparing Ronald McDonald to Joe Camel (Camel Cigarettes) and again, in my opinion, making McDonald’s the scapegoat for overweight kids. Has anyone ever considered that maybe the reason we have so many overweight children is because we have so many overweight parents? McDonald’s existed when I was a kid. McDonald’s advertisement was very active when I was a kid. In the spur of the moment I can still rattle off the Big Mac song: “Two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame bun.” No, I did not Google the song and haven’t heard the commercial in 30 or 40 some years. A Big Mac has 550 calories (I did Google that.) And Newsflash: In grade school we had one or two kids that would be considered obese and I personally knew of maybe a couple of parents that were quite overweight. In Jr. High (now Middle School) and High School the numbers went up, but nothing compared to the obesity problem we see in America today.

Adults and children are not overweight because of a silly looking clown and super sizing meals. They are overweight because they consume too many calories and are too inactive in their lives. What I really think is going on here is the Blame Game, people not taking personal responsibility for themselves. Last year it was the Wall Street Movement who blamed big corporations for their plight in life and thus decided to go on a rampage to destroy private property. It’s the Democrat Party’s fault our country is in such turmoil, says the Republicans, or is it the other way around? Last night I overdid it on Domino’s Pizza and will have to either eat less today or exercise a little more to make up for it. Whose fault was it that I ate too much last night: Domino’s Pizza or the fact that they have delivery service? Or should I blame my wife since she ordered the pizza on a whim? I’m not stupid, no way am I going to blame her.

Maybe it’s time we started up an AA group, you know, and call it Adult’s Anonymous. And I’ll begin. “Hi, I’m Ernie and I’m an adult responsible for my own behavior and actions.”

THE BLAME GAME:

I can’t help losing my temper, nor control my appetite.
I get so mad at mom and dad and blame them for my plight.
I may not be successful, I’m a failure, yes, it’s true.
But if society has taught me anything, it’s all because of you.

If only my spouse would listen, if only my spouse would change,
If only the world would accommodate me, is that so terribly strange?
If only this, if only that, if only you could see,
I’m not selfish or self-centered, I just want you to please me.

So I went to see my psychiatrist, to see what she would say,
To find the reason why so many folks just don’t see things my way.
The secret, she said, is simple, why you’re always under assault.
It has nothing to do with you, it’s true, it’s always someone else’s fault.

So now my friend, before I end, before I cease to complain,
Before you start pointing the finger and think that I am vain.
The answer is so obvious, and I think it’s time you knew,
I now know why I’m so miserable, it’s all because of you

The naive believes everything, But the sensible person considers his/her steps.

Companies will do whatever they can do make money. Many people here seem to think that's some kind of genius argument and stop their thinking there.

Consumers have power too. If consumers demand healthier food, nutritional information (as they have) and choose healthier options, companies have to change. It's a combination of personal responsibility and an understanding of consumer rights.

Yeah, actually, that is the argument though. Companies are in business to make money for their shareholders, period. Providing what the customer wants is the best way to do that. Unfortunately for your argument, consumers want McDonalds. If they didn't, the company wouldn't be in business. That's the way it works.

And what's this about consumer rights? Consumers have a right to want what they want. They have a right to buy what kind of food they want. I don't see a violation of rights here at all....

Don't worry though. You have rights too. You can choose not to eat at McDs. There now...problem solved.

Why? I can choose to have their salad with their calorie-counted dressing.

Look, these are large companies that sell cheap food. Many people at cheap food, many of those people don't know a lot about nutrition. The reason we know McDonald's is bad for us is not because they told us out of love, it's because consumer rights groups worked hard and people watched documentaries about what is in their food. Back when Supersize Me was made, they did not display their nutritional information, for example.

Companies change when their consumers demand it. It's not that hard to understand.

Yes, you can choose that.

Yes, companies change when the majority of their customers demand it.

No, the majority of McDs customers are NOT demanding this change.

Thus, McDs doesn't feel compelled to change.

You're right. It is easy to understand.

Companies will do whatever they can do make money. Many people here seem to think that's some kind of genius argument and stop their thinking there.

Consumers have power too. If consumers demand healthier food, nutritional information (as they have) and choose healthier options, companies have to change. It's a combination of personal responsibility and an understanding of consumer rights.

Yeah, actually, that is the argument though. Companies are in business to make money for their shareholders, period. Providing what the customer wants is the best way to do that. Unfortunately for your argument, consumers want McDonalds. If they didn't, the company wouldn't be in business. That's the way it works.

And what's this about consumer rights? Consumers have a right to want what they want. They have a right to buy what kind of food they want. I don't see a violation of rights here at all....

Don't worry though. You have rights too. You can choose not to eat at McDs. There now...problem solved.

Why? I can choose to have their salad with their calorie-counted dressing.

Look, these are large companies that sell cheap food. Many people at cheap food, many of those people don't know a lot about nutrition. The reason we know McDonald's is bad for us is not because they told us out of love, it's because consumer rights groups worked hard and people watched documentaries about what is in their food. Back when Supersize Me was made, they did not display their nutritional information, for example.

Companies change when their consumers demand it. It's not that hard to understand.

Yes, you can choose that.

Yes, companies change when the majority of their customers demand it.

No, the majority of McDs customers are NOT demanding this change.

Thus, McDs doesn't feel compelled to change.

You're right. It is easy to understand.

Actually... many people at McD's are. That's why you see so many changes, such as... salads... heck, mcd's out here were selling steamed broccoli for a while. Strange bright green supersize broccoli, but that's par for the course.

I think maybe you don't enjoy critically looking at problems. Which is fine, but McDonalds is part of the cheap fast food that is making people obese - it's unhealthy food that is cheap. They do have some duty towards their customers not to feed them crap. Yes, McDonalds existed when you were a kid. People became more and more obese during your lifetime so far.

Your comments about the Occupy Wall Street movements are similar.

It's possible to lose weight, but there's no known cure for conservatism/libertarianism/whatever it is that stops you seeing things in context. As Stephen Colbert pointed out, "Reality has a well-known liberal bias."

Companies will do whatever they can do make money. Many people here seem to think that's some kind of genius argument and stop their thinking there.

Consumers have power too. If consumers demand healthier food, nutritional information (as they have) and choose healthier options, companies have to change. It's a combination of personal responsibility and an understanding of consumer rights.

Yeah, actually, that is the argument though. Companies are in business to make money for their shareholders, period. Providing what the customer wants is the best way to do that. Unfortunately for your argument, consumers want McDonalds. If they didn't, the company wouldn't be in business. That's the way it works.

And what's this about consumer rights? Consumers have a right to want what they want. They have a right to buy what kind of food they want. I don't see a violation of rights here at all....

Don't worry though. You have rights too. You can choose not to eat at McDs. There now...problem solved.

Why? I can choose to have their salad with their calorie-counted dressing.

Look, these are large companies that sell cheap food. Many people at cheap food, many of those people don't know a lot about nutrition. The reason we know McDonald's is bad for us is not because they told us out of love, it's because consumer rights groups worked hard and people watched documentaries about what is in their food. Back when Supersize Me was made, they did not display their nutritional information, for example.

Companies change when their consumers demand it. It's not that hard to understand.

Yes, you can choose that.

Yes, companies change when the majority of their customers demand it.

No, the majority of McDs customers are NOT demanding this change.

Thus, McDs doesn't feel compelled to change.

You're right. It is easy to understand.

Actually... many people at McD's are. That's why you see so many changes, such as... salads... heck, mcd's out here were selling steamed broccoli for a while. Strange bright green supersize broccoli, but that's par for the course.

Ok. So then what's your point? They are meeting their consumers needs. Customers still want burgers and fries, and they provide that, too. What more do you want from them? A complete overhaul of the menu? Customers will need to demand it in mass and that's not happening at the moment.

Do you want more consumers to rise up and demand the change?

I'm saying that personal responsibility is an easy thing to say, but people who have more of a social consciousness also try to look out for people who don't have access to the same information as them and also try to demand better options for everyone. It doesn't hurt the company to make stuff that is better for consumers. They will sell any crap if people don't stand up for themselves and each other.

That's a rather strange argument because the only reason why the demand would change is because of the education... but if everyone is personally responsible, not working together, then how would that information get out?

How do you make the logical leap from "you're responsible for your own health" to a lack of education? I'd argue that taking responsibility for your own body is likely to lead to increased education, relative to the people that just expect McDonalds to change and serve them what's "healthy" (as if such a thing were possible, as you can overeat on any food). Part of having the freedom to choose for yourself is taking responsibility for your own actions.

Bravo! Individual responsibility has somehow become lost in our current society. No one holds people at gun point and makes them eat junk food, fast food or any food. Its a choice. If you make your bed, you get to lie in it. That seems to be a hard pill to swallow for people these days.