Why is anti-intellectualism so rampant?

Great thread....check out the Ayn Rand movie or read her works for a different take on the whole 'capitalism sucks' spiel.

If you don't support Ayn Rand at 19 and reject her by the time you're 30, there's something wrong

I actually agree with you - in part because things have so radically changed from the market forces she was writing about. Nonetheless, it's important to understand all sides, and I think her approach to holding entrepreneurs/capitalists in such high regard still commands a high priority in our understanding of the dynamics at work in a society.

The only book of hers that I continue to hold in any regard is The Fountainhead because it is about the rights of a man to his own thoughts and creations (in that case, architecture). Atlas Shrugged reads like a mix between Twilight and 50 Shades of Gray with trains and copper mines instead of whips and red rooms of pain.

Fountainhead is probably my favorite book. Atlas Shrugged...ehh, some parts are good (famous Francisco monologue comes to mind)

Fountainhead though...brilliant. Much less Objectivist ideology and better storytelling,

Exactly. Objectivism is too convoluted an ideology, and I don't think Rand made the best philosopher. She's identified all the time by young people just starting to exercise their brains, but she's such a bad example of good philosophy. I'd rather people started with Plato and Aristotle and actually spend time learning about how and why we engage in rhetoric (and why people like me engage in satire with the whole anti-intellectual intellectual remarks a few pages back to make a point of why the masses are so easily led to believe as they're/we're told, and why it is a necessity to have a society with things like fairness and charity and consideration for the poor - something Rand would rebuke in favor of a straight free-market society or pure capitalism).

Atlas Shrugged was full of her romantic notions of perfect capitalism mixed it with perfect romantic love mixed with kajillionaires who were the only ones who were able to see the true and the right way. It just doesn't work.

Fountainhead is a great book. Even if people don't agree with Rand, they should read it.

Thanks for a fabulously peaceful sharing of thoughts and ideas, my heart is all warm and fuzzy now. Will stop by in the morning, it's way past my bedtime already.

I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread. It's made me think about myself and my own notions of intellectualism, nerdiness, ignorance, etc (which I haven't done in a long time, I'll admit). That it's been very respectful on all sides is a big bonus. Even though I haven't had a lot to contribute, I've benefitted a lot from this.

:flowerforyou: @ everyone

People are
a) afraid/intimidated by intelligence and ideas because it makes them feel bad about themselves for not having those thoughts. They feel inferior and don't want to. Also because
b) being an intellectual--one who enjoys thinking and ideas--takes work. It means not taking the easy route.

If anything the Internet/digital age to me is helping the "average" "excel" far more than ever. There is so much information out there that actual knowledge is easier to find and because the search is easier more can be learned and applied by those less talented that may not have had the opportunity before.

That's an interesting thought. I'm probably the only one on this thread that doesn't have a degree (oops, is my insecurity showing?) and I feel like the internet has helped me quite a bit in my quest to learn ALL THE THINGS.

But, at the same time, a lot of that knowledge is opinion based rather than fact based, and that's where stuff gets dangerous. I never read only one article on anything I'm learning about - I need to consider all sides. But most people? I just don't think they do. I think they take the first result Google gives them and calls it day.

Degrees don't mean anything in terms of intelligence. Anyone who goes to college knows that they aren't sitting in classrooms full of particularly intelligent people. Just everyday people who are bothering to go to class. I studied chemistry and engineering in college...and you'd be shocked at the sorts of morons out building bridges and managing chemical reactors right now. Every time you drive into a parking structure, just remember it was probably designed by someone who spent 4 years crushing beer cans with his forehead. Someone like me.

90% of learning we do on our own through our own curiosity and reading. College just formalizes the basis and gives a credential that is supposed to prove you're trainable to potential employers.

^^what amw said^^

I have a VERY good job and my qualifications played absolutely no part in me getting it.
Life is a challenge and I see intellectualism as a very small part of whom anybody is!

How do you (meaning any one of you) measure intelligence?

there is no true measure of intelligence. you may be extremely good at one thing and I at another...
Does that make either of us any more intelligent than the other...

How do you (meaning any one of you) measure intelligence?

I don't think there is a reliable way to measure it. Personally I think its best summed up as the basic curiosity that inspires a drive to want to learn, and the wherewithal to follow through and actually do it. The people I'd say are lacking are the ones who don't have any desire to know anything, and happy just drifting through, never thinking to question anything or anyone or to challenge themselves. The ones who just space off and watch things happen without ever asking why, or better yet wondering if there is a better way to make things happen.

This thread made me think of the essay written by Nicholas Carr, "Is Google Making Us Stupid?"

I'm not throwing blame soley at Google. It just happens to be good prose and prompts critical thinking.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/is-google-making-us-stupid/306868/

How do you (meaning any one of you) measure intelligence?

I don't think there is a reliable way to measure it. Personally I think its best summed up as the basic curiosity that inspires a drive to want to learn, and the wherewithal to follow through and actually do it. The people I'd say are lacking are the ones who don't have any desire to know anything, and happy just drifting through, never thinking to question anything or anyone or to challenge themselves. The ones who just space off and watch things happen without ever asking why, or better yet wondering if there is a better way to make things happen.

Another question, but this one is for you: do you believe education takes away from a child's natural curiosity?

...Is this some kind of an interview?

I think it really depends on the style of education. Treating them all the same, ( in other words, making an entire class proceed at the speed of the slowest learner), and teaching them to pass a standardized test as opposed to letting them flex their brain muscles in a way that stimulates and motivates them can certainly destroy a child's natural drive to learn, imo.

In case its the direction your going with this, no, I don't think it has to follow that an adult needs to continue on that basis. Lots of kids were bored out of their minds and even oppressed by institutional education. Myself among them. Doesn't mean its a permanent outcome.

So you guys don't agree that the importance of education and the general intelligence of people is declining? It's always been that way, we're just more aware of it now?

There's definitely been a decline in both the importance and the quality of public education. I think it began when teaching self-esteem became more important than math & science. We reap what we sow, and from appearances (and maybe the impetus for this thread) it is a generation that knows very little, is ignorant of much, and proud of it.

Great thread....check out the Ayn Rand movie or read her works for a different take on the whole 'capitalism sucks' spiel.

If you don't support Ayn Rand at 19 and reject her by the time you're 30, there's something wrong

I actually agree with you - in part because things have so radically changed from the market forces she was writing about. Nonetheless, it's important to understand all sides, and I think her approach to holding entrepreneurs/capitalists in such high regard still commands a high priority in our understanding of the dynamics at work in a society.

The only book of hers that I continue to hold in any regard is The Fountainhead because it is about the rights of a man to his own thoughts and creations (in that case, architecture). Atlas Shrugged reads like a mix between Twilight and 50 Shades of Gray with trains and copper mines instead of whips and red rooms of pain.

Fountainhead is probably my favorite book. Atlas Shrugged...ehh, some parts are good (famous Francisco monologue comes to mind)

Fountainhead though...brilliant. Much less Objectivist ideology and better storytelling,

Exactly. Objectivism is too convoluted an ideology, and I don't think Rand made the best philosopher. She's identified all the time by young people just starting to exercise their brains, but she's such a bad example of good philosophy. I'd rather people started with Plato and Aristotle and actually spend time learning about how and why we engage in rhetoric (and why people like me engage in satire with the whole anti-intellectual intellectual remarks a few pages back to make a point of why the masses are so easily led to believe as they're/we're told, and why it is a necessity to have a society with things like fairness and charity and consideration for the poor - something Rand would rebuke in favor of a straight free-market society or pure capitalism).

Atlas Shrugged was full of her romantic notions of perfect capitalism mixed it with perfect romantic love mixed with kajillionaires who were the only ones who were able to see the true and the right way. It just doesn't work.

Fountainhead is a great book. Even if people don't agree with Rand, they should read it.

Yep. What we need is 8 years of Progressivism. (The TV man says it's Communism without the hundreds of millions of dead people. Plus Jews are bad now, but not in a Naziism way.)