Researchers claiming it's impossible to keep weight off

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  • RaspberryKeytoneBoondoggle
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    I weighed myself yesterday morning and I was two pounds less than I have been for the last 9 months.
    First thing I did was eat a doughnut. I don't even really like doughnuts. With me it's like a subconscious mental issue.
  • heatherloveslifting
    heatherloveslifting Posts: 1,428 Member
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    A lot of people are trying to poo on this article because they don't like what it's saying. Unfortunately there is very solid research to support exactly what it's saying. The mass majority of people who attempt to lose weight will indeed fail. Of those who succeed, the vast majority of them will eventually regain the weight. It's not meant to be motivating or demotivating. It's simply reporting factual data. I feel like those numbers are correct too. We all know plenty of people who lost a dramatic amount of weight and regained all of it (or more in some cases). Outside of the internet how many people do you know that lost dramatic weight and kept it off 5+ years, 10 years, 15? You probably don't no that many.

    Now think about people you know from the internet. The number is a lot bigger because many of the success stories like to congregate around diet and fitness related websites/forums. Between MFP and the bodybuilding.com forums losing fat section, I know countless people who have lost and kept off massive amounts of weight. What researchers need to do is study these statistical anomalies. What separates this group from the much larger group of people who lost weight but gained it back? While the following is all pure anecdotal, observational evidence, I have noticed the following traits exist in the a great deal of the people I know, myself included, who have lost and kept off large quantities of weight:

    1. They did not do a "fad" diet or did so only for a portion of their weight loss.
    2. They ultimately ended up doing some kind of calorie counting or calorie and macro nutrient tracking
    3. They continued to count calories even after weight was lost. Many never stopped and don't have any plans to at any point.
    4. They still regularly monitor their weight as well as other markers of body composition (measurements, progress pictures, etc.)
    5. They do some kind of resistance training.
    6. Possibly most importantly, once achieving goal weight, they did not attempt to simply maintain weight. They continued to want to improve body composition by doing rotating periods of muscle gain and fat loss (also known as bulk/cut cycles).

    I feel like number 6 is really the key here. It is why they continue to do numbers 1-5. When people no longer have a goal and simply want to focus on maintaining the can become relaxed. The work is done, now it's just smooth sailing. This is unfortunately not true at all. The only thing "easier" about maintenance vs. fat loss is that calories can be slightly higher. Not even a ton higher, we're talking around 500 calories a day higher. Not really a ton of wiggle room. If instead of just maintaining you decide to focus on body re-composition, you have no room to be relaxed. A muscle gaining phase involves more precise control then a fat loss phase does. It's much harder work. It's slower, results are less dramatic. You can lose 100 lbs in a year if you try hard. You can only hope to gain a fraction of that over a lifetime of attempting muscle gain. It probably takes most people 5-10 years worth of bulk/cut cycling to reach their muscular genetic potential. Spending that long tracking calories, working out, weighing in, seems like adequate time to have fully integrated those habits into your life. 10 years in you probably have little worry of falling off the wagon. Also since you spent a decade improving body composition you have much more wiggle room then someone who simply lost fat. I would really love someone do research the group of individuals who manage to keep weight off long term. I feel like that is where the money needs to be spent. Not on stating the obvious like this article. We all know that most people fail at long term weight loss. That isn't helpful information. Let's look at why the minority manages to keep it off!

    Impressed. :drinker:
  • maillemaker
    maillemaker Posts: 1,253 Member
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    The article is correct. Many doctors are now coming to the conclusion that it is not a viable solution to the obesity problem to rely on behavioral change. Most people cannot tolerate the discomfort of weight loss long term.

    http://videocast.nih.gov/summary.asp?live=2993&bhcp=20

    The above video is Dr. Liebel from Columbia University Medical Center.

    The upshot is our bodies are designed to protect fat stores, and will make you miserable when you reduce them.
  • EvanKeel
    EvanKeel Posts: 1,904 Member
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    LOL
    "An appropriate rebalancing of the primal needs of humans with food availability is essential," University of Oxford epidemiologist Klim McPherson wrote in a Lancet commentary following last week's study. But to do that, he suggested, "would entail curtailing many aspects of production and marketing for food industries."

    Hysterical. They're stating that an economy of abundance (here, anyway) and technological convenience has produced people who are eating more than they need. So their solution is apparently to ration out the food, or something similar? In any event, they want to make the food less available. Alternatively, we could just eat less.

    Yes, that's exactly what they are saying in the article in the Lancet - that we all need to eat less, and doing so (in order to get the collective BMI back down to the level it was in 1980) will cost the food industry several billion dollars in lost revenue, which they aren't going to like. I agree with everyone saying it is about individual responsibility, however we live in an environment based on a cheap food model. It would also be interesting to revisit this thread in 10 years to follow up on everyone (myself included) who pledged not to regain the weight. It's complex and bigger than us, at the same time as being down to just us as individuals.

    I have no particular ideological problem with regulating markets; I'm a bit of socialist at heart. It's a completely unrealistic stance to take because it'll never happen, barring collapse of our economy. So who knows.

    And anyone who makes a pledge not to regain the weight is just begging for trouble. We know what it takes to lose weight, and we do the best we can on any given day. That's the only thing I'd pledge to.
  • BigGuy47
    BigGuy47 Posts: 1,768 Member
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    I know countless people who have lost and kept off massive amounts of weight. What researchers need to do is study these statistical anomalies.
    The National Weight Control Registry collects data from people that have managed to keep the weight off.

    http://www.nwcr.ws/
  • Nedra19455
    Nedra19455 Posts: 241 Member
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    I would really love someone do research the group of individuals who manage to keep weight off long term. I feel like that is where the money needs to be spent. Not on stating the obvious like this article. We all know that most people fail at long term weight loss. That isn't helpful information. Let's look at why the minority manages to keep it off!

    Yes! I agree!

    I also think that there was a study (maybe by the NIH?) that looked at habits of people who were able to maintain their weight after weightloss. But I think it was just after 1 year of maintenance, so I'm not sure if that would be enough to get usable information. I remember that stepping on the scale daily was one of the common habits of successful maintainers.
  • aarnwine2013
    aarnwine2013 Posts: 317 Member
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    I've been worried about this exact topic for weeks... I'm about 14lbs from my goal weight and then what?? I've lost this weight 100 times in my lifetime. Losing isn't the problem, it's keeping it off.

    I'm going to continue to read the responses but lately I've been reading about how people keep it off. I think I've changed my way of thinking from I have to lose this weight right now to , let's get healthy and fit. I workout because it makes me feel good now... Hopefully as I continue to lose weight I will look up different exercises and continue my journey to fitness.

    Good post.
  • VeganCappy
    VeganCappy Posts: 122
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    The upshot is our bodies are designed to protect fat stores, and will make you miserable when you reduce them.

    I agree, you will feel miserable, but if you do it right, that misery will pass as your body starts to become accustom to foods with lower calorie densities. If you eat the right foods, you can eat all you want and still lose weight, feel great, and still perform anaerobic exercise (you can't in ketosis).
  • Lindzpnc
    Lindzpnc Posts: 98 Member
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    aww man I knew it!!!!! im destined to be obese! im gonna go have a snickers bar for breakfast instead of my egg whites!

    yay!!!!!!


    thanks!
  • GFreg
    GFreg Posts: 404
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    There's a disturbing truth that is emerging from the science of obesity. After years of study, it's becoming apparent that it's nearly impossible to permanently lose weight.
    Lost in all of the noise about dieting and obesity is the difficult concept of prevention, of not putting weight on in the first place.

    So if I gain weight, it is "nearly impossible" to permanently lose the weight but if I never gained the weight in the first place then I wouldn't have to worry about becoming obese in the future. Sounds like 'Grade A' science to me. /sarcasm

    I owned up to the fact that I ate like crap and gained weight. I am in the process of losing the weight. If I lose the weight and then return to a 4500 calorie a day diet, of course I will get fat again.
  • sculli123
    sculli123 Posts: 1,221 Member
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    OP you're right of course that's the reason. I don't want to insult anyone but it's lack of discipline and willpower that causes people to gain the weight back after they lose it. That and the mentality that they thing they're "done" once they reach a goal. Forgetting to set new goals and living a lifestyle rather than getting in shape for one day.
  • maillemaker
    maillemaker Posts: 1,253 Member
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    Where did the article suggest those the regained maintained their habits developed while losing weight? It says:

    "Researchers are divided about why weight gain seems to be irreversible, probably a combination of biological and social forces."

    This seems to me to suggest that people slowly go back to old habits. Eating out a little more often, having that extra treat a little more often, shortening or skipping the workouts a little more often, etc.

    As the video I posted above shows, the reason why people gain weight is that they can't deal with the discomfort of weight loss for long term.

    Our bodies seem to be programmed to protect fat stores once they have been acquired. Body fat produces leptin. The less body fat you have, the less leptin you have. As leptin declines, it triggers other hormonal changes that result in your body reducing metabolism and increasing sensations of hunger. The reduced metabolism can make you feel cold or irritable.

    Worse, the effect may be permanent, even if you lose all the weight and become non-obese. A person who has been obese and loses fat will have a metabolism that is 12% - 20% less than someone who has the same body mass but was never obese.

    This means that once you lose the weight, your maintenance calories will be 12% - 20% less than the normal maintenance calories for a person of that body weight.

    So not only do you have to suffer to lose the weight, you have to suffer to maintain it once you lost it.

    The real key here, as the article states, is to not get fat in the first place. Once you've pushed your leptin levels high, the effects may be irreversible with current medical technology.
  • pinkyslippers
    pinkyslippers Posts: 188 Member
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    And anyone who makes a pledge not to regain the weight is just begging for trouble. We know what it takes to lose weight, and we do the best we can on any given day. That's the only thing I'd pledge to.

    Amen to that, brother :drinker:
  • sculli123
    sculli123 Posts: 1,221 Member
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    I lost about 45 lbs in 1994 and kept it off until my first pregnancy almost 10 years later. It can be done and I am doing it again. I've spent most of my life doing things other people said were "too hard". I am the 5%.
    dats it!
  • maillemaker
    maillemaker Posts: 1,253 Member
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    I agree, you will feel miserable, but if you do it right, that misery will pass as your body starts to become accustom to foods with lower calorie densities. If you eat the right foods, you can eat all you want and still lose weight, feel great, and still perform anaerobic exercise (you can't in ketosis).

    There is evidence to suggest that this is not true. The reduction in metabolism from losing body fat may be permanent. The effect has been tracked in people who have kept their weight off for several years. Their metabolisms are still 12% - 20% lower than people of the same weight who were never obese.

    If it became easier over time I would expect to see more people succeed long term, too, which we don't.
  • ValGogo
    ValGogo Posts: 2,168 Member
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  • ValGogo
    ValGogo Posts: 2,168 Member
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    Is this pseudoscience or just plain caca?
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
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    I lost about 45 lbs in 1994 and kept it off until my first pregnancy almost 10 years later. It can be done and I am doing it again. I've spent most of my life doing things other people said were "too hard". I am the 5%.

    Wasn't the 5% those who kept it off for more than 10 years? It sounds like you are exactly what the article is talking about. You are doing it again.
  • Slacker16
    Slacker16 Posts: 1,184 Member
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    True story:
    When I was 15, I reached 105 kilos. It made me :frown:
    By the age of 16, I was 85 kilos and :indifferent:
    By 17 I was 70 kilos and :smile:

    I've yo-yo'ed quite a bit in the 12 years since I was 16, but never got above 85 kilos. That's still pretty big given my height and bone structure, but nowhere near as bad as 105. I is anomaly?

    It didn't take nearly as much effort as the article linked and some of the replies would suggest, just enough vigilance not to let myself get too big and a bit of long-term change. I didn't do any sort of calorie-counting until I was 25-26 and started because I was tired of yo-yo'ing.

    My point being that, while maintaining an ideal weight might require more effort than it's worth, my experience has been that maintaining a reasonable weight doesn't.

    I intend to let myself go in my sixties. I'ma be a fat old dude.
  • Riiseli
    Riiseli Posts: 18 Member
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    I'm too lazy to check, but I'm guessing this article is based on a review article published in Lancet. A review article isn't necessarily meant to discuss reasons behind certain results, they just summarize what other scientists have found in their studies. A review article is based on trial results published, most likely, in peer-reviewed literature. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Review_article