Back Squat - Form Question

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  • robweaver77
    robweaver77 Posts: 14
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    You could also invest in some olympic weight lifting shoes, which have a 1/2"-3/4" hard heel that gives you better leverages and lets you hit depth easier. They are useful for front and highbar squats. You can also mess around with foot placement. I squat pretty wide for lowbar, but when I do front squats, I have my feet just a little bit beyond shoulder width. Check out youtube videos of Olympic lifters. This video is aptly named: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcEsmhVag1c
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    first things first

    low bar or high bar?

    Since you're my go-to gal, explain low bar and high bar please. Thank you.

    I thought I had a photobucket picture of this to just post up- but I can't search my phone quickly with such low reception
    if you google low bar vs high bar squats- click images- there is a fantastic siloutte drawing that shows a guy with the bar in 3 placements- doing a squat- front- high and low (in that order left to right)

    this might bring it up for you.
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=0cKWw_kxa57UrM&tbnid=LW_o05nj7dawiM:&ved=0CAMQjhw&url=http://70sbig.com/blog/2012/01/low-bar-vs-high-bar-squatting/&ei=8MiQU92NJcKSqgbqr4G4Bw&bvm=bv.68445247,d.cWc&psig=AFQjCNEHZmeaE4RTbrQ03-sfEU_8cQGOnA&ust=1402083941833640

    ultimately low bar sits on yoru rear delts- very low... high bar sits on your traps - but not on your spine and it greatly impacts the way you actually squat.
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,268 Member
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    first things first

    low bar or high bar?

    Since you're my go-to gal, explain low bar and high bar please. Thank you.

    I thought I had a photobucket picture of this to just post up- but I can't search my phone quickly with such low reception
    if you google low bar vs high bar squats- click images- there is a fantastic siloutte drawing that shows a guy with the bar in 3 placements- doing a squat- front- high and low (in that order left to right)

    this might bring it up for you.
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=0cKWw_kxa57UrM&tbnid=LW_o05nj7dawiM:&ved=0CAMQjhw&url=http://70sbig.com/blog/2012/01/low-bar-vs-high-bar-squatting/&ei=8MiQU92NJcKSqgbqr4G4Bw&bvm=bv.68445247,d.cWc&psig=AFQjCNEHZmeaE4RTbrQ03-sfEU_8cQGOnA&ust=1402083941833640

    ultimately low bar sits on yoru rear delts- very low... high bar sits on your traps - but not on your spine and it greatly impacts the way you actually squat.

    this one?
    c4ab0829-8513-4dd1-a1f0-93c6258e68e9_zpsf6a3ec61.jpg

    edit for size
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    grumble.. hold on-
    have to text this thread to my phone- can't see the picture- I'm assuming it is.

    YES.

    that one.
  • _lyndseybrooke_
    _lyndseybrooke_ Posts: 2,561 Member
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    Okay guys. I'm just not sure I can get much lower than parallel regardless of the weight on my back. I tried different stances, deloaded, and I'm still getting what looks like parallel or maybe just below.

    I was squatting 120, so I deloaded to 115 to see if I could get deeper. This was the result (yes, I lift barefoot in my underwear):

    qy7bsp.jpg

    I decided to deload a bunch, just to see. This is me squatting with only 80 lbs, which felt like nothing on my shoulders:

    5v4qcm.jpg

    Is it just me, or do those look pretty much the same?

    So, what's the issue? Feel free to critique my form, stance, etc. I want to improve, so I'm not going to get defensive. If all of that looks good, could it be weak hip flexors? Or something else I can work on?
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
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    hard to tell with the camera angle, but that looks below parallel to me, i.e. your knees are higher than your hips. You don't look that different from the diagram of the low bar back squats on the previous page either.
  • mryak750
    mryak750 Posts: 198 Member
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    your form is fine...keep squatting...where did you get your squat rack from?? What brand is it??
  • robweaver77
    robweaver77 Posts: 14
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    You are definitely below parallel. Your body lean is more forward, which is more like lowbar squat. The body lean forward would make it more difficult to get much deeper. The bar placement looks like it is midway between highbar and lowbar. Is that a pad around the bar? That might be messing things up slightly.
  • _lyndseybrooke_
    _lyndseybrooke_ Posts: 2,561 Member
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    You are definitely below parallel. Your body lean is more forward, which is more like lowbar squat. The body lean forward would make it more difficult to get much deeper. The bar placement looks like it is midway between highbar and lowbar. Is that a pad around the bar? That might be messing things up slightly.

    So I should stop leaning forward so far?

    Yes, that's a pad. The bar kills me without it. No matter how much I tighten up those muscles, it's still against my vertebrae.
  • mryak750
    mryak750 Posts: 198 Member
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    The pain of the bar on your traps will go away...try without it
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
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    Yes, that's a pad. The bar kills me without it. No matter how much I tighten up those muscles, it's still against my vertebrae.

    If you're doing low-bar and the bar is resting on your delts, then you shouldn't be feeling it in the vertebrae. This, coupled with the upper body lean, leads me to believe you're losing tightness in your upper back. If you get racking the bar on your delts properly - then these two things should clear up.
  • robweaver77
    robweaver77 Posts: 14
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    You are definitely below parallel. Your body lean is more forward, which is more like lowbar squat. The body lean forward would make it more difficult to get much deeper. The bar placement looks like it is midway between highbar and lowbar. Is that a pad around the bar? That might be messing things up slightly.

    So I should stop leaning forward so far?

    Yes, that's a pad. The bar kills me without it. No matter how much I tighten up those muscles, it's still against my vertebrae.

    For highbar squat, try shrugging your shoulders up and back so that the bar rests purely on your traps. Shugging your shoulders up and back makes your traps pop out so they take the weight of the bar rather than your spine. It should also let you stay a bit more upright, which will allow greater depth. If you want to try lowbar (which would allow you to keep your forward lean), push your shoulders all the way back and try sliding the bar (while on the rack) up and down your back until it grabs a natural notch in your back. Neither way should have the bar resting on your spine, which would let you get rid of the pad.
  • EricMurano
    EricMurano Posts: 825 Member
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    At least parallel, deeper if your hips are made for it. How deep someone can go depends on their bone structure.

    If you're just breaking parallel then you're fine.
  • Galatea_Stone
    Galatea_Stone Posts: 2,037 Member
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    I agree with everyone who says take the pad off the bar. Pinch your shoulders back to put the bar on your traps for high bar squats.

    You are definitely below parallel, and you don't need to go ATG to get a good workout. I mix it up. Sometimes I go ATG, and sometimes I force myself to stop at just below parallel. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten stuck at the bottom of the squat on my last set when going for a PR doing ATG squats.

    Squatting barefoot isn't the greatest. You can get good squat shoes online. I got Wei-Rui ones for $65 that have a 3/4 inch heel and they really improved my form. You may want to get some weightlifting shoes if you can swing it. (wei-rui shoes are ugly ugly ugly, but they are great)
  • _lyndseybrooke_
    _lyndseybrooke_ Posts: 2,561 Member
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    Thanks so much for the tips, everyone! I'm relieved to know that I'm not as far off as I thought.
    your form is fine...keep squatting...where did you get your squat rack from?? What brand is it??

    I bought it from sports equipment store that usually sells used equipment. This was new, though. I got it for about $125. You can also find it on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Barbell-Olympic-Bench-Squat-Rack/dp/B005Y1PA7S

    The reviews aren't so great, but it works for me and I haven't had any issues. My husband has used it as well and hasn't complained. It's good for the money. I'd eventually like to buy or build a power rack, but then I'd have to put it in the garage. Working out in the garage doesn't sound too fun to me.
  • phatguerilla
    phatguerilla Posts: 188 Member
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    OP in the form pictures the camera is too low to get an accurate gauge on depth. The main thing is while you changed your bar height you didn't change your form. You're doing a low bar squat in a high position in the second picture. You should be more upright in a high bar squat.

    Also for me what effects squat depth most of all, or at least the ability to go low without tipping forward, is ankle mobility. Make sure your ankle/achilles is moving freely and doesn't feel tight when warming up.

    One other thing I've noticed when I've seen girls squatting in the gym is their stance is too wide. A wide stance makes it harder to go lower.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
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    At some point, the difference between parallel and ATG becomes anatomical as much as anything else.
  • eric_sg61
    eric_sg61 Posts: 2,925 Member
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    Looks good, You do have some forward lean, but it can be fixed. Someone mentioned weighlifting shoes earlier, those were essential for me to reach better depth and to keep my torso more upright with high bar squats
    Here are some good tips in this
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoZWgTrZLd8
  • mryak750
    mryak750 Posts: 198 Member
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    Thanks so much for the tips, everyone! I'm relieved to know that I'm not as far off as I thought.
    your form is fine...keep squatting...where did you get your squat rack from?? What brand is it??

    I bought it from sports equipment store that usually sells used equipment. This was new, though. I got it for about $125. You can also find it on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Barbell-Olympic-Bench-Squat-Rack/dp/B005Y1PA7S

    The reviews aren't so great, but it works for me and I haven't had any issues. My husband has used it as well and hasn't complained. It's good for the money. I'd eventually like to buy or build a power rack, but then I'd have to put it in the garage. Working out in the garage doesn't sound too fun to me.

    Thanks...same here...I workout in my basement and my ceilings are too low for a power rack...but they do have one that's 72" in height

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