Cyclist v Motorist
Replies
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This thread has me confused on what's etiquette and what's not. I get that in the UK, it's illegal to ride on the sidewalks. But for the US, we have people on this thread stating that cyclists belong on the sidewalk and people adamant that cyclists never belong on the sidewalk. What's the right answer?
(I think if a cyclist is on the sidewalk, the cyclist has the responsibility to watch out for pedestrians and get out of the way. But I don't see the problem with them using the sidewalk if they abide by safety precautions.)0 -
This thread has me confused on what's etiquette and what's not. I get that in the UK, it's illegal to ride on the sidewalks. But for the US, we have people on this thread stating that cyclists belong on the sidewalk and people adamant that cyclists never belong on the sidewalk. What's the right answer?
(I think if a cyclist is on the sidewalk, the cyclist has the responsibility to watch out for pedestrians and get out of the way. But I don't see the problem with them using the sidewalk if they abide by safety precautions.)
In the US, across most all of the country with a few possible local exceptions, bikes are vehicles and belong on the road or in designated bike lanes.
Riding on the sidewalk as an adult will just get you a ticket.0 -
Someone "riding a bicycle" is not necessarily a "cyclist" (people engaged in the serious sport of cycling). Unfortunately, there are way too many of the first kind that give serious and responsible riders a bad reputation. Riding through red lights, not stopping at stop signs, going against the flow of traffic, cutting in and out of bike lanes, etc etc. Many drivers can not differentiate the difference. It just not worth the fight to me anymore.
Good points buddy, maybe there should be some sort of cycling road test where you are granted a licence at the end of the test. If you are caught going through red lights riding on pavement or any other "cycling offence you have endorsements put on you licence, to many endorsements and you get fined and have to have a retest. Just a thought.
I'd vote for that!
When I see other "cyclists" riding on sidewalks, going the wrong way on on way streets, riding through red lights etc etc I just wish there was a cop around to ticket them..(I've yelled at my fair share of sidewalk surfers, salmons & ninjas over the years)
When we're on our bikes we're operating (in almost every jurisdiction in the world) a vehicle. We're required to obey the rules of the road. I suspect if more cyclists behaved predictably and responsibly motorists would be more likely to do the same around bikes (pardon the pun)....it's a two way street.
But the problem with this is twofold: (1) "cyclists" who think they own the term and are better because they have a certain type of bike or wear certain riding gear. I cycle every day in an area where there are lots of people on bikes. It's the fast guys in the riding gear on the high end Trek that dart in and between cars. Not the guy on the beach cruiser who goes slow on the side of the road; and (2) drivers who think they're anonymous because they're in a car. People who can be genuinely nice out of a car can get behind a wheel and be aggressive. And what about children? Are children now forbidden to go on bike rides with parents because they're inexperienced cyclists?0 -
Someone "riding a bicycle" is not necessarily a "cyclist" (people engaged in the serious sport of cycling). Unfortunately, there are way too many of the first kind that give serious and responsible riders a bad reputation. Riding through red lights, not stopping at stop signs, going against the flow of traffic, cutting in and out of bike lanes, etc etc. Many drivers can not differentiate the difference. It just not worth the fight to me anymore.
Good points buddy, maybe there should be some sort of cycling road test where you are granted a licence at the end of the test. If you are caught going through red lights riding on pavement or any other "cycling offence you have endorsements put on you licence, to many endorsements and you get fined and have to have a retest. Just a thought.
I'd vote for that!
When I see other "cyclists" riding on sidewalks, going the wrong way on on way streets, riding through red lights etc etc I just wish there was a cop around to ticket them..(I've yelled at my fair share of sidewalk surfers, salmons & ninjas over the years)
When we're on our bikes we're operating (in almost every jurisdiction in the world) a vehicle. We're required to obey the rules of the road. I suspect if more cyclists behaved predictably and responsibly motorists would be more likely to do the same around bikes (pardon the pun)....it's a two way street.
But the problem with this is twofold: (1) "cyclists" who think they own the term and are better because they have a certain type of bike or wear certain riding gear. I cycle every day in an area where there are lots of people on bikes. It's the fast guys in the riding gear on the high end Trek that dart in and between cars. Not the guy on the beach cruiser who goes slow on the side of the road; and (2) drivers who think they're anonymous because they're in a car. People who can be genuinely nice out of a car can get behind a wheel and be aggressive. And what about children? Are children now forbidden to go on bike rides with parents because they're inexperienced cyclists?
I get your point and also the other posters point. And your both right. All bike riders ARE cyclist and all cyclist ARE bike riders, just some are better at it than others. Same as car drivers some are good at it and some should be stripped of their licence.0 -
Each city has it's own ordinance on this. Some allow it, some don't.This thread has me confused on what's etiquette and what's not. I get that in the UK, it's illegal to ride on the sidewalks. But for the US, we have people on this thread stating that cyclists belong on the sidewalk and people adamant that cyclists never belong on the sidewalk. What's the right answer?
(I think if a cyclist is on the sidewalk, the cyclist has the responsibility to watch out for pedestrians and get out of the way. But I don't see the problem with them using the sidewalk if they abide by safety precautions.)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
In the US, across most all of the country with a few possible local exceptions, bikes are vehicles and belong on the road or in designated bike lanes.
Riding on the sidewalk as an adult will just get you a ticket.
I didn't realize that. I just looked up my state, and bike riding on the sidewalk is specifically stated as allowed as long as not travelling at high speeds, so I never really thought about it.0 -
Every workday on my way home for lunch, the lab down my street (Livermore Labs) has at least 70 to 100 riders, go riding for lunch. Looks like a race at about 12pm M-F. Again, we have wide bike lanes, so it's not so tough on them. They do have to go over an overpass (over hwy 580) so it does get a bit crazy when they have to cross the on ramp entries and exits, but all in all I haven't seen a major hang up or bike accident yet.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
In the US, across most all of the country with a few possible local exceptions, bikes are vehicles and belong on the road or in designated bike lanes.
Riding on the sidewalk as an adult will just get you a ticket.
I didn't realize that. I just looked up my state, and bike riding on the sidewalk is specifically stated as allowed as long as not travelling at high speeds, so I never really thought about it.
I looked this up for my area as well. Even some cops don't know the rules, so it's always good to educate yourself.0 -
I looked this up for my area as well. Even some cops don't know the rules, so it's always good to educate yourself.
After Ninerbuff's post, I realized I had to look up city ordinances too. In one of the suburbs in my state, it's illegal to NOT drive on the sidewalk if one is available. :laugh: No wonder people are confused.0 -
Here is a link to the UK rules of the rd for cyclist in the UK.
http://ukcyclelaws.blogspot.co.uk/p/the-laws-according-to-highway-code.html
Must read them myself. Need to make sure I am abiding by those laws. As one poster said we all have a duty of care for other road users.0 -
Someone "riding a bicycle" is not necessarily a "cyclist" (people engaged in the serious sport of cycling). Unfortunately, there are way too many of the first kind that give serious and responsible riders a bad reputation. Riding through red lights, not stopping at stop signs, going against the flow of traffic, cutting in and out of bike lanes, etc etc. Many drivers can not differentiate the difference. It just not worth the fight to me anymore.
Politely I'd disagree. We routinely have folks(the serious sport of cycling) kind riding 3 and 4 aside(abreast however you want to say it) We have a state law which states roughly to provide 4 feet of space between the nearest rider and the vehicle. And the max is 2 aside for the cyclists. Impossible to provide adequate(4 feet of space) when they are bunched together. I do not think either group is worse, the rec versus the "cyclist". As people engage in getting in better shape, the general public needs to be educated of the laws both the cyclists and themselves. Hear ends this announcement.0 -
Don't get me started on this, I might never stop.
Just one thing. If you're driving a motorised vehicle, please, please, please, put your phone down. And leave it there. Please.
I'm not saying anything else, I might start ranting...0 -
Cyclists and motorists need to know the laws in their states. In Idaho, it is LEGAL for a cyclist to slow at a stop sign or red light and, if the way is clear, proceed without stopping.0
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I hate this. I ride every single day for hours and it never fails. I hate cars. They do not look and are always mad no matter where I am. I almost get hit from behind when I ride on the right side of the street, I get screamed at if I ride on the left side of the street so I can at least see who is gonna hit me, and I get screamed at by pedestrians if I dare ride on the sidewalk. It's a no-win. People are in too much of a hurry these days and never look. The worst thing is a car pulling out of a driveway from a store. They are turning right and looking left only and there you are, waiting and hoping they see you. My bike was run over at a Dairy Queen by a woman this way. I was stopped too. She just took too to deep a turn without looking and ran over my front tire and then my bike. Good thing I got off in time. Too many close calls. I am super careful but really. People need to use their eyes.0
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It might amuse some people that I stopped a group of 4 bikes yesterday. I heard "Passing on your left" just as I saw a 3 foot water moccasin snake start slithering across the trail. I held out my hand and stopped them. They looked annoyed till I pointed out they were about to run over a poisonous snake.
I'm sure cyclist say about runners what motorist say about cyclist. "They're in my way."0 -
The funny thing is here in Minneapolis we have dedicated bike trails that go one for miles with no stop signs or cross traffic... as I ride now I find myself complaining about the rude cyclists that ride slow or two abreast on the bike trails making it more difficult to safely pass them without facing oncoming bike traffic.
In our heads, we would all like the billions of miles of paved road to belong only to us and or people that will yield to us. It's an unfortunate aspect of human nature I think.
It's 2014, we were all supposed to have flying cars and jetpacks by now and road rage is just our means of expressing our utter disappointment in the situation.0 -
It's interesting because I wouldn't want to cycle simply because as a motorist, I see how other motorists behave towards other motorists, let alone cyclists - why would I abandon the relative safety of my metal shell and let them have at me?
On the other hand, I frequently walk on local bike paths and ironically, the motorist behavior cyclists complain about (and worse) is on full display by cyclists towards pedestrians.
I guess it's all about the hierarchy and who's in whose way.
So for all you cyclists out there, the next time you complain about motorist behavior, remember that respect is a two way street and that the motorist that just cut you off, may have been the pedestrian you buzzed on the bike trail 30 minutes ago.0 -
You hit the nail on the head with your first comment. A lot of drivers think that they shouldn't have to share the road with bicylists. They don't care that we pay taxes too. Some of us even drive cars too.Went out for a ride today and had a car cut across the front of me. I made a gesture and he stopped, I jumped of my bike and we had a little exchange of words. My point is why do some car drivers believe that bikes should not be on the road or should be that close to the side that they ride in the drainage channel? I drive a Renault Grand Espace, a big 7 seater and make sure I am well out of the way of any cyclist I need to over take. So what if I have to wait 10, 20, 30 seconds, it's no big deal.
While they think they are playing around or trying to scare the cyclist, we could end up maimed or killed in an instant.
Drivers aren't even the only threat. People who use the bike lane as a parking lot are also dangerous. Bike lanes are provided so that cyclists don't have to share a lane with cars. When you force us to suddenly veer into the driving lane, it's unfair and puts us at risk to get seriously hurt.0 -
I have a rather unique method of dealing with rude *kitten* in cars. I pull out my baton, open it, and smash their passenger side window. I did this two days ago to some young dbag in a truck who pulled up beside me, honked the horn, and then started edging me off the road. After I broke his window, like the true coward he is, he sped off, ignoring my pleas to get out of his truck.
I have been known to throw hard boiled eggs at cars who are really stupid. I live in SW VA where the ignorant, truck driving, redneck population is through the roof. Dbags who think cyclists have no rights to the road. These *kitten* actually TARGET cyclists on back roads, so I take steps to protect myself and my other riders. I also have been known to carry a .380..just in case.
I stay as far right as I can, obey all traffic signs, and stop at all lights. I signal at every turn. I absolutely abhor rude drivers. If you don't have the damn common sense to go around a cyclist, do everyone a favor and stay the hell off the roads.
The guy who started this thread is far more respectful of idiot drivers than I am. I don't tolerate being bullied by idiots just because they think they are entitled to the road.
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Someone "riding a bicycle" is not necessarily a "cyclist" (people engaged in the serious sport of cycling). Unfortunately, there are way too many of the first kind that give serious and responsible riders a bad reputation. Riding through red lights, not stopping at stop signs, going against the flow of traffic, cutting in and out of bike lanes, etc etc. Many drivers can not differentiate the difference. It just not worth the fight to me anymore.
I don't disagree with your logic, but I would argue the same could be said for motorists... many out there are not seriously engaged in the activity of motoring... and cyclists (as well as other motorists) can't differentiate.0 -
I live in the countryside in England and there are plenty of cyclists (I mean the ones in the lycra with proper bikes) especially on hot days. On the whole it's not really an issue because single riders or even 2 side by side riders still leave plenty of room to get by on the straight stretches of road. I am a pretty patient person and will quite happily crawl behind on the bendy bits because I know I can get by soon enough.
However sometimes we get 5 or 6 or more who take up the whole road, know you are behind them but make no effort to move at all so you can at least get past and get on your way. They only move over when a car is coming in the opposite direction and then you can't get passed anyway.
I agree that car drivers need more to be aware of cyclists but trust me some cyclists are not whiter than white either.
I also have a problem with horse riders who don't wear hi-vis gear but that's a completely different topic.0 -
Don't get me started on this, I might never stop.
Just one thing. If you're driving a motorised vehicle, please, please, please, put your phone down. And leave it there. Please.
I'm not saying anything else, I might start ranting...
Lol0 -
I figure I'd be pretty rude to a car going 10 mph in front of me causing a traffic jam, too. It's not the vehicle, it's the "I'm entitled to cause a traffic jam" attitude.
And there is your problem. you tarnishing every cyclist with the same brush. My average speed is 18mph on my bike. I cycle 2 miles to and from work. I have "race" a friend to work him in his van me on my bike. I beat him in by about 10 seconds as it is down hill so was able to up my overall speed. Going home is different, i beat him by about 5 minutes even though it's up hill. Due to traffic I am able to go passed waiting vehicles, safely as motor cycles also do, this I find hacks of car drivers because they have to sit and wait. My answer to those people is, get a bike you lazy git. Anyway over a short distance a bike is just as, if not quicker than a car depending on your fitness levels.
I know you may have said this jokingly, but this is the feeling I get from a lot of bikers in my area (Southern California). A lot of them think they are better than those of us driving in cars and we are simply lazy. I would love to ride a bike everywhere, but I have 2 small kids and live in the spreadout suburbs of So Cal where it's not feasible to ride a bike. I don't particularly like cyclists - I only encounter them on my commute to and from work. It's annoying when you get by one only to get stuck at a light and they pass you, so when the light turns green you have to get around them again. And again, and again, LOL. But I always try and give them enough room because I understand we have to share the road. With that said, there are a lot of *kitten* drivers who go out of their way to cutoff cyclists and motorcycles. So if I were a cyclist, i'd probably be pretty pissed off all the time and have a bad attitude towards drivers too.0 -
I don't know what cyclists are like in America..but in Ireland they're, on the whole, a danger. I live in rural Ireland and my praticular county is a mecca for cyclists. However, we do not have cycle paths and our roads are pretty awful. I've been stuck behind groups of cyclists (it's a rarity that you'll only find one) for up to an hour as they use the whole road and will not pull into laybys to allow the build up of traffic behind them to pass.
This can lead to dangerous driving by frustrated drivers.
I don't know about the cities..but I've head and seen some serious incidents of cyclists verbally abusing car and bus drivers and one some occasions slapping the roofs of cars and trying to snap off car mirors (I really am being serious) There is also a terrible issue of cycling on footpaths and breaking lights. I've also stared in amazement as a man texted while cycling through Dublin...talk about an accident waiitng to happen. This gives the impression that cyclists think that they are above the law.
I've also seen some terrible behaviour from drivers who think they rule the roads. This ignorance isn't usually limited to cyclists, but to tractor, bus and elderly drivers.
I think it's great that people do cycle, lets face it, we can do without the extra traffic and pollution but they are still road users and should abide by the rules of the road and extend the courtesy that they would like themselves.0 -
I figure I'd be pretty rude to a car going 10 mph in front of me causing a traffic jam, too. It's not the vehicle, it's the "I'm entitled to cause a traffic jam" attitude.
And there is your problem. you tarnishing every cyclist with the same brush. My average speed is 18mph on my bike. I cycle 2 miles to and from work. I have "race" a friend to work him in his van me on my bike. I beat him in by about 10 seconds as it is down hill so was able to up my overall speed. Going home is different, i beat him by about 5 minutes even though it's up hill. Due to traffic I am able to go passed waiting vehicles, safely as motor cycles also do, this I find hacks of car drivers because they have to sit and wait. My answer to those people is, get a bike you lazy git. Anyway over a short distance a bike is just as, if not quicker than a car depending on your fitness levels.
#1) I doubt you're going to be going 18 mph.
#2) That's still much less than half the 45-50 I'd be able to go without a cyclist in the way.
#3) If you want to bicycle the 45 miles I currently drive to work, that's fine with me, but I'm not willing to put in that kind of effort.0 -
I figure I'd be pretty rude to a car going 10 mph in front of me causing a traffic jam, too. It's not the vehicle, it's the "I'm entitled to cause a traffic jam" attitude.
The funny thing is, you would probably be sitting in a real traffic jam and not just needing to wait a moment to safely pass if all the bike riders decided to start taking their cars out.
Yeah, that one extra (or different, if it's a car in the scenario) car would totally destroy any advantage gained by being able to drive a normal speed.0 -
I have a rather unique method of dealing with rude *kitten* in cars. I pull out my baton, open it, and smash their passenger side window. I did this two days ago to some young dbag in a truck who pulled up beside me, honked the horn, and then started edging me off the road. After I broke his window, like the true coward he is, he sped off, ignoring my pleas to get out of his truck.
I have been known to throw hard boiled eggs at cars who are really stupid. I live in SW VA where the ignorant, truck driving, redneck population is through the roof. Dbags who think cyclists have no rights to the road. These *kitten* actually TARGET cyclists on back roads, so I take steps to protect myself and my other riders. I also have been known to carry a .380..just in case.
I stay as far right as I can, obey all traffic signs, and stop at all lights. I signal at every turn. I absolutely abhor rude drivers. If you don't have the damn common sense to go around a cyclist, do everyone a favor and stay the hell off the roads.
The guy who started this thread is far more respectful of idiot drivers than I am. I don't tolerate being bullied by idiots just because they think they are entitled to the road.
That's a nice way to get yourself shot by an angry armed driver or arrested.0 -
I figure I'd be pretty rude to a car going 10 mph in front of me causing a traffic jam, too. It's not the vehicle, it's the "I'm entitled to cause a traffic jam" attitude.
And there is your problem. you tarnishing every cyclist with the same brush. My average speed is 18mph on my bike. I cycle 2 miles to and from work. I have "race" a friend to work him in his van me on my bike. I beat him in by about 10 seconds as it is down hill so was able to up my overall speed. Going home is different, i beat him by about 5 minutes even though it's up hill. Due to traffic I am able to go passed waiting vehicles, safely as motor cycles also do, this I find hacks of car drivers because they have to sit and wait. My answer to those people is, get a bike you lazy git. Anyway over a short distance a bike is just as, if not quicker than a car depending on your fitness levels.
#1) I doubt you're going to be going 18 mph.
#2) That's still much less than half the 45-50 I'd be able to go without a cyclist in the way.
#3) If you want to bicycle the 45 miles I currently drive to work, that's fine with me, but I'm not willing to put in that kind of effort.
SMH, sometimes I really dis-pare with why people doubt what you say. Why tf would I make it up? I doubt you drive a car 45 miles, I doubt you can drive, I doubt you own a car. Mate, it is my humble opinion (moderators please take note it is an opinion and we are entitled to those) you are one of those car drives that think only you should be on the road.0 -
#1) I doubt you're going to be going 18 mph.
#2) That's still much less than half the 45-50 I'd be able to go without a cyclist in the way.
#3) If you want to bicycle the 45 miles I currently drive to work, that's fine with me, but I'm not willing to put in that kind of effort.
SMH, sometimes I really dis-pare with why people doubt what you say. Why tf would I make it up? I doubt you drive a car 45 miles, I doubt you can drive, I doubt you own a car. Mate, it is my humble opinion (moderators please take note it is an opinion and we are entitled to those) you are one of those car drives that think only you should be on the road.
You're right too many muppets around here - WTF would anyone doubt the 18mph - unless they have zero clue about cycling?0 -
Yeah, physical confrontation isn't very smart, since you don't know who you're dealing with. I learned that lesson when i was younger & dumber. A better solution - tell them you have the incident on video and that they have 2 choices - either you take the video to the police, or they apologize on video, which will go on Youtube for everyone to see. If you can't afford a GoPro, you can buy a clip-on MD80 camcorder on Ebay for $7, plus a 8GB Sandisk card for $50
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