Too much sugar and you won't lose weight even in defecit?

13

Replies

  • Cranquistador
    Cranquistador Posts: 39,744 Member
    I'm so beyond over this debate. People will defend what works for them into the ground. I'll stick with what my docs and nutritionists and bloodwork says.

    Please answer this question

    You are losing weight. How is this happening?

    According to you ppl I'm starving myself
    according to your own self you felt this might be giving you an eating disorder.
  • princess71903
    princess71903 Posts: 56 Member
    I'm so beyond over this debate. People will defend what works for them into the ground. I'll stick with what my docs and nutritionists and bloodwork says.

    Please answer this question

    You are losing weight. How is this happening?

















    According to you ppl I'm starving myself
    according to your own self you felt this might be giving you an eating disorder.


    Learn how to take a joke. I was referring to how all of you push all the BS like its the freakin holy grail
  • Achrya
    Achrya Posts: 16,913 Member
    I'm so beyond over this debate. People will defend what works for them into the ground. I'll stick with what my docs and nutritionists and bloodwork says.

    Please answer this question

    You are losing weight. How is this happening?

    According to you ppl I'm starving myself


    Wut?
  • Cranquistador
    Cranquistador Posts: 39,744 Member
    I'm so beyond over this debate. People will defend what works for them into the ground. I'll stick with what my docs and nutritionists and bloodwork says.

    Please answer this question

    You are losing weight. How is this happening?

















    According to you ppl I'm starving myself
    according to your own self you felt this might be giving you an eating disorder.


    Learn how to take a joke. I was referring to how all of you push all the BS like its the freakin holy grail
    jokes are supposed to be funny.
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
    I'm so beyond over this debate. People will defend what works for them into the ground. I'll stick with what my docs and nutritionists and bloodwork says.

    To be fair, when you put yourself out as "living proof" of something you should be prepared for questions.
    They are legit questions.
  • ShalaraQ
    ShalaraQ Posts: 82 Member
    People claiming CICO is everything sound just as ignorant to me as someone saying bananas make you fat. Just because you lose weight that way doesn't mean it's true for everyone. I would not lose weight on a Twinkie diet. When insulin is present in the blood, fat burning can not happen. If a person has any insulin resistance or constantly snacks on sugar all day long, keeping insulin around, it's not as simple as CICO.
  • vismal
    vismal Posts: 2,463 Member
    People claiming CICO is everything sound just as ignorant to me as someone saying bananas make you fat. Just because you lose weight that way doesn't mean it's true for everyone. I would not lose weight on a Twinkie diet. When insulin is present in the blood, fat burning can not happen. If a person has any insulin resistance or constantly snacks on sugar all day long, keeping insulin around, it's not as simple as CICO.
    wrong wrong wrong! Cico is based on the law of thermo dynamics. To say it doesn't work for you is like saying gravity doesn't work for you. Even if you ate twinkies only you would still have periods of the day where insulin wasn't elevated. The bottom line is this. If you eat only 2000 calories worth of twinkies and burn 2500 calories in the day, where does the body get the 500 it didn't get from food? Thin air? Plus even if you eat strictly low carb, protein can spike insulin just as strong!
  • RHachicho
    RHachicho Posts: 1,115 Member
    Well I OP I notice your asking many questions. And honestly I tried a bunch of stuff. CICO is what worked for me.in the end. People tend to champion whatever approach worked for them. But so far the science is firmly behind CICO other diets that have worked for others tend to work because it allows them to create a calorie deficit more easily. It's also could be quite true that restricting carbs or whatever does increase the rate of weight loss. However eating 50g of carb a day wont result in any weight loss if you go over your calorie allowance on fat and protein. BUT this is inherently difficult to do.

    PERSONALLY with big flashing lights around it so all the pro keto etc people can see it. I believe that overly restricting any type of food will only give temporary results. In the end if you restrict carbs to lose weight you will end up putting some of that weight back on when you let your body have carbs again. So why waste time with ephemeral results. Better to go the slow and steady path. The key to good nutrition. As it is to many things in life is balance and moderation. Not that it's always easy.
  • daynerz
    daynerz Posts: 227 Member
    Enjoy your bananas with a few more bananas if its within your defecit range...

    Those who dont understand nutrition throw things way out of context.. that's like saying DONT DRINK COFFEE... uh...

    Moderation is key, however, losing weight is always math. Cals in vs cals out. ;)
  • ShalaraQ
    ShalaraQ Posts: 82 Member
    I don't eat low carb. I just eat carbs that are better for me. I spent 6 months with excellent food logging. I gained weight on 1200-1500 calories a day. Not a lot, but I did gain. At 350 pounds, you do the math. If it were simply a matter that my metabolism is so slow that 1200-1500 calories doesn't create a deficit, then I shouldn't be losing weight eating 1200-1500 calories of different foods. The only real change is that I am not consuming half my calories in liquid sugary form (juice and soda).

    Does CICO work? Sure, you must have a calorie deficit to lose weight. That's a given. But we are a complicated conglomeration of hormones and chemical reactions and there is much that science still doesn't understand about metabolism and weight. My body does not treat a calorie of sugar the same as a calorie of protein.
  • vismal
    vismal Posts: 2,463 Member
    I don't eat low carb. I just eat carbs that are better for me. I spent 6 months with excellent food logging. I gained weight on 1200-1500 calories a day. Not a lot, but I did gain. At 350 pounds, you do the math. If it were simply a matter that my metabolism is so slow that 1200-1500 calories doesn't create a deficit, then I shouldn't be losing weight eating 1200-1500 calories of different foods. The only real change is that I am not consuming half my calories in liquid sugary form (juice and soda).

    Does CICO work? Sure, you must have a calorie deficit to lose weight. That's a given. But we are a complicated conglomeration of hormones and chemical reactions and there is much that science still doesn't understand about metabolism and weight. My body does not treat a calorie of sugar the same as a calorie of protein.
    No one's body treats carbs like protein. Cico doesn't attempt to make that claim. If at 350 lbs you did not lose weight at 12 to 1500 calories then you either grossly miscounted, had lots of cheat days, sleep ate, lied (whether on purpose or subconsciously) or have an extreme metabolic disease that needs treatment.
  • ShalaraQ
    ShalaraQ Posts: 82 Member
    No one's body treats carbs like protein. Cico doesn't attempt to make that claim. If at 350 lbs you did not lose weight at 12 to 1500 calories then you either grossly miscounted, had lots of cheat days, sleep ate, lied (whether on purpose or subconsciously) or have an extreme metabolic disease that needs treatment.

    None of those are the case; I'm hardly some ignorant clod trying to prove you wrong for my own amusement and frankly I do not appreciate your assumptions. I hate that I can't eat anything that I want in my calorie range and still lose weight. I wanted it to be true. Exacting records were important. Regardless, I am done here, I don't come here to be talked down to; we will just have to agree to disagree.
  • vismal
    vismal Posts: 2,463 Member
    No one's body treats carbs like protein. Cico doesn't attempt to make that claim. If at 350 lbs you did not lose weight at 12 to 1500 calories then you either grossly miscounted, had lots of cheat days, sleep ate, lied (whether on purpose or subconsciously) or have an extreme metabolic disease that needs treatment.

    None of those are the case; I'm hardly some ignorant clod trying to prove you wrong for my own amusement and frankly I do not appreciate your assumptions. I hate that I can't eat anything that I want in my calorie range and still lose weight. I wanted it to be true. Exacting records were important. Regardless, I am done here, I don't come here to be talked down to; we will just have to agree to disagree.
    I'm not talking down, I'm pointing out facts. If you ate 1200 calories, the only way to not lose weight would be to burn less then that. At your weight that would be near impossible even if you never got out of bed. You either ate more or for some reason your body burns next to nothing. I'd love to hear any other reasonable, scientific explanation to why you are 1200 calories and didn't lose weight. If you do think you burn more then that in a day I'd like to know where your body came up with the fuel it used to keep you going.
  • GreatDepression
    GreatDepression Posts: 347 Member
    Vismal, take a look at Taube's scientific writing. Carbohydrates, glucose and insulin have huge affects on fat loss and fat storage. It complicates the calories dogma you strictly believe in.
  • Achrya
    Achrya Posts: 16,913 Member
    Vismal, take a look at Taube's scientific writing. Carbohydrates, glucose and insulin have huge affects on fat loss and fat storage. It complicates the calories dogma you strictly believe in.


    LolTaubes
  • vismal
    vismal Posts: 2,463 Member
    Vismal, take a look at Taube's scientific writing. Carbohydrates, glucose and insulin have huge affects on fat loss and fat storage. It complicates the calories dogma you strictly believe in.


    LolTaubes
    STRONG THIS!
  • vismal
    vismal Posts: 2,463 Member
    Vismal, take a look at Taube's scientific writing. Carbohydrates, glucose and insulin have huge affects on fat loss and fat storage. It complicates the calories dogma you strictly believe in.
    It really doesn't. Bottom line is, no matter where the calories come from, if you eat 2000 and burn 2500 the body must make up for the discrepancy. Taube's work is highly questionable to say the least.
  • TMM211073
    TMM211073 Posts: 153 Member
    Hi,

    I've eaten a banana and an Actimel (bio yogurt drink with sugar but 0% fat) every morning since November 2012, when I started this journey..... I haven't done too badly because of it in my opinion.

    As people have said, if you consume 2500 calories but only burn 2000 you are going (over time) gain weight - lets face it, one bad day will not cause you to gain weight - weight gain happens when a bad day becomes a bad week, becomes a bad month, becomes "Oh sod it...."

    Enjoy your bananas, I know I sure do - I'm off to use my last banana to make a banana chocolate & vanilla milkshake - another one of my favourites (chocolate coconut milk - 150kcals for 300ml, Original 0% fat Actimel - 28kcals, banana - 100kcals).

    It's your journey and it's up to you to find your way there.... So long as your calories in do not exceed your calories out too often, you will get where you are going.... Good luck xXx
  • epadmeister
    epadmeister Posts: 102 Member
    Goddamnit enjoy your bananas! As long as there's a deficit you'll be fine. Jesus, I've dedicated a part of my food diary to fruit: I always go over on my sugar intake for the day... I've not done too badly, I don't think?

    Perhaps your friend and I should have a little chat... especially if they're trying to get you to avoid eating fruit. How dare they! :mad:
  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
    Vismal, take a look at Taube's scientific writing. Carbohydrates, glucose and insulin have huge affects on fat loss and fat storage. It complicates the calories dogma you strictly believe in.
    Taubes?
    science-is-writing-it-down.gif
  • Snow3y
    Snow3y Posts: 1,412 Member
    False.
  • WitchesGuildMaster
    WitchesGuildMaster Posts: 114
    I mean, if you want to eat your entire calories in cakes and sweets, then surely you're going to be hungry after you eat all of your calories for the day. Just doesn't seem like a good idea.
    [/quote]

    I eat like that sometimes, and I don't get hungry. But I'm a special snowflake. (No seriously.)
  • vismal
    vismal Posts: 2,463 Member
    I mean, if you want to eat your entire calories in cakes and sweets, then surely you're going to be hungry after you eat all of your calories for the day. Just doesn't seem like a good idea.


    I eat like that sometimes, and I don't get hungry. But I'm a special snowflake. (No seriously.)
    no one is arguing eating all sweets or a twinke diet is a good idea, it's not, for many many reasons. The point is that as long as you eat in a deficit, no matter what you eat, you'll lose weight.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
    In fact eat just sugar in a deficit for a month or so and you will probably lose more than if you were eating a balanced diet.

    Deficit is the only way.

    But CICO - for weight loss.

    Macros and Micros - for health.
  • Deborah105
    Deborah105 Posts: 183 Member
    I honestly didn't think so.

    Just wanted to make sure. Thank you.

    Someday I won't have to ask such stupid questions! Haha

    .
    .
    .
    Do not fear the question!
  • AnswerzPwease
    AnswerzPwease Posts: 142 Member
    People claiming CICO is everything sound just as ignorant to me as someone saying bananas make you fat. Just because you lose weight that way doesn't mean it's true for everyone. I would not lose weight on a Twinkie diet. When insulin is present in the blood, fat burning can not happen. If a person has any insulin resistance or constantly snacks on sugar all day long, keeping insulin around, it's not as simple as CICO.
    wrong wrong wrong! Cico is based on the law of thermo dynamics. To say it doesn't work for you is like saying gravity doesn't work for you. Even if you ate twinkies only you would still have periods of the day where insulin wasn't elevated. The bottom line is this. If you eat only 2000 calories worth of twinkies and burn 2500 calories in the day, where does the body get the 500 it didn't get from food? Thin air? Plus even if you eat strictly low carb, protein can spike insulin just as strong!

    So is this why IF works? Because it leaves more time for insulin to be low and you to burn fat?

    And does this mean, that even though CICO works, that low carb will burn fat faster because insulin is low for most of the day?
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
    It might help you to think of CICO as the account you do at the end of the week, where a complete energy balance will work.

    What happens in your body hourly is more to do with what you eat, circulating hormones, activity level, oxidation rates etc etc.

    When considering CICO you don't know CO accurately, CO may be a function of CI and you may struggle to measure CI accurately.

    If you oxidise more fat than you eat you'll lose weight, you have to go crazy on carb intake to make fat from carbs but eating the sugar will reduce fat oxidation and will also inhibit release of fat from storage, neither of which are a perfect match with the goal of losing weight.
  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
    People claiming CICO is everything sound just as ignorant to me as someone saying bananas make you fat. Just because you lose weight that way doesn't mean it's true for everyone. I would not lose weight on a Twinkie diet. When insulin is present in the blood, fat burning can not happen. If a person has any insulin resistance or constantly snacks on sugar all day long, keeping insulin around, it's not as simple as CICO.
    wrong wrong wrong! Cico is based on the law of thermo dynamics. To say it doesn't work for you is like saying gravity doesn't work for you. Even if you ate twinkies only you would still have periods of the day where insulin wasn't elevated. The bottom line is this. If you eat only 2000 calories worth of twinkies and burn 2500 calories in the day, where does the body get the 500 it didn't get from food? Thin air? Plus even if you eat strictly low carb, protein can spike insulin just as strong!

    So is this why IF works? Because it leaves more time for insulin to be low and you to burn fat?

    And does this mean, that even though CICO works, that low carb will burn fat faster because insulin is low for most of the day?

    IF works more as a personal preference. Insulin drops sufficiently during the night or in between meals. Total calories matter more than meal timing. There are literally dozens of articles on the subject. While meal timing does give some influence it won't matter much if you don't have the other ducks lined up. (Edit: IF can work better for some for a variety of reasons) But total cals consumed is your first focus.

    You can lose on IF with an overall deficit. You can lose without IF and a deficit. But you can't lose on IF without a deficit.

    Low carb weight loss has a lot more to do with glycogen associated water weight loss.

    Long term, think about changes you can adhere to.
    Long term, think about changes you can adhere to.
    Long term, think about changes you can adhere to.

    Edit: typo
  • _Zardoz_
    _Zardoz_ Posts: 3,987 Member
    but eating the sugar will reduce fat oxidation and will also inhibit release of fat from storage, neither of which are a perfect match with the goal of losing weight.
    This though is so negligible that the amount of sugar you'd have to eat to have any significant effect would be ridiculous
  • eric_sg61
    eric_sg61 Posts: 2,925 Member
    but eating the sugar will reduce fat oxidation and will also inhibit release of fat from storage, neither of which are a perfect match with the goal of losing weight.
    Throughout the day your body is burning and storing fat at the same time, the rate (or the one that "wins") is determined by if your in a deficit or a surplus. The metabolism is not a series of on and off switches, it is more like dimmer switches.
    ETA:
    Some people take the word "inhibit" to mean STOP. Inhibit =/= stop.

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