Control Issues and Establishing Boundaries

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  • oregonzoo
    oregonzoo Posts: 4,251 Member
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    It's good he is willing to see somebody with you.

    However, the controlling thing leads me to fear this is the same abusive path you have taken before. Really, life is too short for that.
    See how the counseling goes, and have a totally open mind and heart(and the fact you started this thread leads me to believe it's not as open as you want it to be)..
    But if it doesn't work out, you may be helped by examining your attraction to men who are this way.

    I'm not sure if they are this way or if I am doing something that causes them to become this way. That's what I'm trying to sort out.

    Please explain why you feel like this thread would lead you to believe that my heart is not open. I really want this to work out. I'm scared that I am not equipped to make that happen.
    See.. it's not right you think it's something that you are doing. It's not something you are doing.
    If you really want this to work out, I hope it does. Truly.
    Nothing wonderful is easy.
  • UsedToBeHusky
    UsedToBeHusky Posts: 15,229 Member
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    It's good he is willing to see somebody with you.

    However, the controlling thing leads me to fear this is the same abusive path you have taken before. Really, life is too short for that.
    See how the counseling goes, and have a totally open mind and heart(and the fact you started this thread leads me to believe it's not as open as you want it to be)..
    But if it doesn't work out, you may be helped by examining your attraction to men who are this way.

    I'm not sure if they are this way or if I am doing something that causes them to become this way. That's what I'm trying to sort out.

    Please explain why you feel like this thread would lead you to believe that my heart is not open. I really want this to work out. I'm scared that I am not equipped to make that happen.
    See.. it's not right you think it's something that you are doing. It's not something you are doing.
    If you really want this to work out, I hope it does. Truly.
    Nothing wonderful is easy.

    So true. I fear telling him when something bothers me sometimes because I don't want to hurt his feelings. But that is my thing. I fear confrontation in relationships. I need to work on that.
  • Yakelmeyer
    Yakelmeyer Posts: 49 Member
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    Having been in unhealthy and controlling relationships before, I can say with confidence that jealously and other similary traits or qualities are signs of insecurity which makes sense in the context of PTSD. On top of couples counseling, I recommend he see his own counselor if he isn't already. It wouldn't hurt for you to see one, too for good measure. It helps to learn about yourself and how you interact with others and can make couples counseling much more productive. I speak from experience. Good luck and remember: you're a smart girl, you can figure it out!
  • UsedToBeHusky
    UsedToBeHusky Posts: 15,229 Member
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    Having been in unhealthy and controlling relationships before, I can say with confidence that jealously and other similary traits or qualities are signs of insecurity which makes sense in the context of PTSD. On top of couples counseling, I recommend he see his own counselor if he isn't already. It wouldn't hurt for you to see one, too for good measure. It helps to learn about yourself and how you interact with others and can make couples counseling much more productive. I speak from experience. Good luck and remember: you're a smart girl, you can figure it out!

    We both are seeing someone individually. Thanks for the input. I am trying to encourage him to get more therapy for the PTSD, but in the end, we resolved on the couples counseling. I'm going to talk to him tonight about getting that set in motion.
  • _Emma_Problema_
    _Emma_Problema_ Posts: 261 Member
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    Okay... when arguing, he makes me feel bad about things that he never mentioned bothering him before. Lately, he whines about the amount of contact we have. We talk 3 times a day on the phone, text, and see each other on the weekends and at least once during the week. He can get ragingly jealous. He always sees hidden meanings in simple things like not sitting with him in group settings.

    I'm not saying that he is outwardly trying to control me. I've been in a completely controlling relationship before and this isn't even close. I'm just worried things are going to progress in that direction. He suffers from PTSD. I have been in multiple, abusive relationships so I have a natural inclination to let things go when I shouldn't.

    These are traits of people with BPD, which is often co-morbid with PTSD. I'm not one to diagnose someone and I really don't have the information for it, but given that I have BPD, I know that those issues are really difficult to get over and definitely require therapy. There is deep-seated insecurity and fear there. Constant mistrust, fear, and jealousy are relationship killers. I can relate to his behaviors and I would suggest you push him to see someone and not just in couples counseling. He obviously has a lot of work to do on himself.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    How long have you been dating?

    I'll be honest- if it's less than year- unless you're really really really stupidly head over heels for him- call it a day and move on.

    You're dating- it should be fun- if you need counselling when you're just dating that's a sign.

    I would also highly suggest reading some communication books- I read Deborah Tanner's books on You're not hearign what I'm saying (think that's what it was called) they are great. Because they don't just talk about the words- she talks about why people behave the way they do- the social bringing and implication of certain behaviors with emotions and how we express them and how we deal with people asserting themslves- or being passive aggressive.

    Also check out gas-lighting- it's a passive aggressive uber manipulative thing people do. It makes me CRAZY- it makes you feel like YOU"RE the problem when you aren't. Look it up- research it. Learn how to say
    "how is that comment helpful right now?" or "what does that achieve in this conversation"
    I've had it done to me- made me feel awful and like it was always my fault.
    Watched my friend whose a PHD in psychology get manipulated by a guy who used to do it ALL the time.
    It's an extremely powerful tool people use- be aware and don't be afraid to say NO- that's not fair.

    Also learn to say- I respect what you are saying- but this is how I FEEL. And I'm entitled to those feelings. Right or wrong. You have a right to them and no one can take that away from you.

    Also make sure you maintain YOUR space/time- and that he has his space and time.


    Sorry about the hardships- relationships- they are the hardz. and all the feelz. and issues.


    (PS- it took me almost a decade to work through my first heartbreak and all the damage- 10 years- and lots of tears and really painful conversations with my current bf- god bless him. - it takes longer- much longer to heal than you think- and unfortunately it often takes a new relationship to expose some of those issues- and either they care enough to work on it- or they don't- it's a good litmus test but requires you to be open and exposed- I feel for you)

    Good luck sweetie.
  • UsedToBeHusky
    UsedToBeHusky Posts: 15,229 Member
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    How long have you been dating?

    We've been dating for 8 months. I've known him all my life though. We weren't close friends before, but I would still hate for a bad break-up to end a lifelong friendship.

    I believe as long as we are both willing to do what we can to enhance and improve this relationship, then we will be okay. It's just that navigating romantic relationships kind of feels like walking in a minefield for me because I have had one failed relationship after another all my life.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    If it makes you feel better- many people go to one "failed" relationship to the next.

    But failure isn't failure just because you didn't work out.

    I had to explain this one to a friend... Dating is like trying brand new jeans on...
    some just seriously do not fit.
    Some are really ugly
    some are to 'expensive' (to much work whatever)
    And some- this is the hardest category- all the rest have clear answers.
    Some fit- but they still aren't the right jeans:
    They fit- yes- I can put them on. And I can button them up- and yes I could buy them. But they don't make me happy. They don't make my *kitten* look amazing- and they just make me look too tall- too short- to fat- too squatty- whatever. THey fit- but they aren't the best pair for me.

    But I learned something every time I tried on the jeans.
    Size 2- bad size for me- dont' try that again
    The blue ones with the detailing- I don't like for X reason- don't try that again
    these require hand washing and dry cleaning and you can't lose the rhinestone studs on the edge or they'll cost you 50 bucks per stone to replace- okay- so no studded jeans for me- plus the are itchy and scratchy....
    the other ones- well that brand with the pockets- that size is great- it's not the best fit.

    So moving on- I can eliminate those things next time I try jeans on.

    Same with the guys. Just because it didn't work- and things weren't the way you WANTED them to be (worst thing ever- trying jeans on- loving them -buying jeans- - washing them- getting them home and wearing them again and hating them)

    But it's all more about you- and more about learning what you need and want- what you'll put up with.

    (almost) EVERYONE has gone through a process like that- more people than not- you are NOT alone. And it's okay to have not had things work out- it is not a reflection on you as a person. I promise.
  • _Stardust_
    _Stardust_ Posts: 124 Member
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    It's good he is willing to see somebody with you.

    However, the controlling thing leads me to fear this is the same abusive path you have taken before. Really, life is too short for that.
    See how the counseling goes, and have a totally open mind and heart(and the fact you started this thread leads me to believe it's not as open as you want it to be)..
    But if it doesn't work out, you may be helped by examining your attraction to men who are this way.

    I'm not sure if they are this way or if I am doing something that causes them to become this way. That's what I'm trying to sort out.

    Please explain why you feel like this thread would lead you to believe that my heart is not open. I really want this to work out. I'm scared that I am not equipped to make that happen.
    See.. it's not right you think it's something that you are doing. It's not something you are doing.
    If you really want this to work out, I hope it does. Truly.
    Nothing wonderful is easy.

    So true. I fear telling him when something bothers me sometimes because I don't want to hurt his feelings. But that is my thing. I fear confrontation in relationships. I need to work on that.

    The thing about this relationship pattern is that you are the one in the center of it. There IS something about you that attracts controlling partners or develops patterns of power and control within romantic relationships. Of course that does not absolve anyone of fault or responsibility, it simply acknowledges that both parties contribute. I know in my personal life that until I deal with my own issues, I will continue to run into those same problems in any romantic relationship, regardless of who my partner is.
  • MityMax96
    MityMax96 Posts: 5,778 Member
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    I struggle with this concept. Big time! I don't know if I just never had a proper example of how to do this in relationships or if it is just my nature.

    Anyway... obviously I have had some bad relationships. I thought I was in a good place and ready for a relationship. Things have been great, but recently, the red flags have gone up. This guy has several issues that cause him to fall into this role, and I have several issues that cause me to fall into mine.

    Neither of us want to end a good thing, but is there a way to salvage this? He completely acknowledge his issues and I acknowledge mine. Couples counseling is on the table, but we are in the process of making that happen.

    Anyway, between now and counseling, I am left pondering if we can really change the direction our relationship is taking. I just want some feedback on how to handle myself from here. Please, I don't want any "just break up" responses. I'm not ready to give up in anyway. I'm just looking for some help and guidance. Has anyone been able to work through control issues and make their relationship survive?

    You can't change him and he can't change you.

    You both work on changing yourselves.....
    Maybe counseling is the way to go.....
  • Skrib69
    Skrib69 Posts: 687 Member
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    I went through a phase of this, and it was all my own making. Mrs B was stuck in the house all day and I was out at work. We were both stagnating, and as a way of getting out I started my Aikido. It was a great help for me, but Mrs B was still stuck at home. So, I actively encouraged her to get out and do something for herself so that she could find some 'me time' without the kids etcetera.

    So, she joined the local gym, met new people, joined a running club.. It was really good for her, and she grew enormously in herself. What surprised me was my jealousy of her new found friends, my resentment of her not being around when I wanted her there, I had to give more of myself so that she could go out. I had lost control of the situation and hated it. And it was all my own making!!! To make it worse, I tried to regain control and took things out on the kids and her.

    So, I had to have a good long think about how I could come to terms with this situation. I thought about how I would react if the boot was on the other foot, to try and see things from her perspective. I worked through what I was doing to decide what issues were me being an *kitten*, and what was really important to me. Then, if I found myself being an *kitten* I would apologise for it. If it was important to me, I would explain why. A lot of the time I had to sit on my hands and say nothing when all I wanted to do was get stuck in and 'sort it out', when in reality Mrs B was just aiming for the same result via a different route.

    I also got more involved in her new social life and got to know her new friends, and then didn't mind her being the social butterfly (previously this was infuriating for me, but by my own rules I had to sit on my hands again!). By explaining more about what I was feeling gave Mrs B more insight as to what I needed.

    It took a long time - probably 12 months - for me to get it completely under control, and now there are no issues at all for me.

    The point of this rambling tale is:

    Decide what is really important to you (By 'really' I mean 'actually' rather than 'very')
    Be honest
    Talk
    Be patient
    Keep quiet if you have nothing constructive to say
    Be patient
    Be patient
    Take the advice of your mediator - they are far more knowledgeable about this kind of thing than my narrow experience and unqualified advice.
  • Skrib69
    Skrib69 Posts: 687 Member
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    You can't change him and he can't change you.

    You both work on changing yourselves.....

    ^^^ Quite agree ^^^
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
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    How long have you been dating?

    I'll be honest- if it's less than year- unless you're really really really stupidly head over heels for him- call it a day and move on.

    ^this times a million. and don't let the trap of "I'd hate to lose a long time friendship" be the hook that keeps you in a going nowhere relationship.

    back when I was learning to sell things, I had a manager that used a certain phrase all time. "Good deals get better and bad deals get worse". His point was that even tho we wanted to make every deal, sometimes you could see things falling apart early and when you did, be prepared to cut bait. Trying to constantly fix a deal that you knew was going to be bad would end up being this time suck where no one ended happy and both sides missed out on opportunities to find more profitable arrangements. Instead of trying to fix fix fix spend that time looking for something with a more higher likelihood for positive outcome.

    8 months into a relationship with someone you've known a long time should NOT be a time for couples counseling. you're barely even a couple yet. i think you both probably need some counseling, but for your own separate issues, not for the purpose of staying together.
  • SunofaBeach14
    SunofaBeach14 Posts: 4,932 Member
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    I find these to be the hardest to answer of questions because it truly depends. It depends on what you need and it depends on what he needs. It depends on whether you both love each other enough to push through problems together. It depends on whether you both recognize that you can't change the other but that you really have to change your own behavior. It also depends on whether you both are honestly giving each other what the other needs. The right relationship is worth working for, but it's also not all work.
  • _KitKat_
    _KitKat_ Posts: 1,066 Member
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    Okay... when arguing, he makes me feel bad about things that he never mentioned bothering him before. Lately, he whines about the amount of contact we have. We talk 3 times a day on the phone, text, and see each other on the weekends and at least once during the week. He can get ragingly jealous. He always sees hidden meanings in simple things like not sitting with him in group settings.

    ...

    I have done each and every one of these things. (I was the one calling my wife 5x a day). Set those boundaries - if he can't change, this can't go well long-term. The raging jealousy is a big deal and either he will learn how to get over it or not. Don't give in to his insecurity on that.

    You have to give a little too: The sitting together thing - I get it, and if my wife did that I would consider it a clear insult or attempt to disassociate herself from me (plus leave social basket case me miserable for the night). For that one specific thing, give in to his insecurity.

    That's all I got. I was that guy. Took being an inch away from a divorce for me to man up and change.

    Thanks for the tips. I'm a bit of a social butterfly in groups. I will have to make sure I make more effort to include him in conversations and engage him in activities. To be fair, I wasn't completely ignoring him... I was just a bit drunk at the time. LOL!

    As far as giving in to his insecurities, how can I avoid that? I mean, I am completely honest with him always, but he very often doesn't believe me. This is beginning to bother me. He admits that most of his reasons for not trusting me have nothing to do with me, but that doesn't really tell me how to handle these situations. It hurts my feelings to be accused of things that I would never even consider doing to him.

    I am not saying breakup.....but you need to set the boundary on this asap.


    An appropriate response would be...." I am sorry you have trust issues, I have done nothing to warrant the lack of trust you seem to have in me. It makes me feel (****fill in the blank****), I do not want to feel this way." You can also try the never using words like "never", " always" ect. If you phase your statements as "this makes me feel" or "I feel" it makes your statements about you and no one can tell you how to feel, so the points become inarguable. Telling him you will not be made to feel that you have done something wrong, when you have not and ending the conversation there, if need be walk away.... Not storm away, muttering... Just calming state you are finished and when he is ready to talk, you will be available. His trust issues can not be fixed by anyone but him, but you have to draw a line and refuse to be accused or not trusted. The main aspect of any good relationship is trust, it is needed.

    ETA....I just saw the "only together 8 months", I am not trying to be insulting but 8 months isn't even long enough to be an " us", if couples counseling is already needed....the longterm outlook would not be positive. I understand knowing him your whole life, but it does confuse me your statement about a bad breakup, why would it have to be bad? It may also be an option to state " the trust issues are too much for me at this point, I hope we can both continue to work on ourselves." When you both have dealt with your own issues you may be able to have the relationship you hope to have together.
  • the_summer_belle
    the_summer_belle Posts: 353 Member
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    I've been in abusive relationships too and everything your describing are all the warning signs that should have red flags popping up all over the place. My ex was just like that and it did progress and escalate to him showing me against walls elbowing me in the ribs and roughing up my son to the point where it was abusive not play fighting anymore. He started calling me foul names and gossiped about me to all my facebook friends and family too.

    The amount of contact you have is plenty! what your describing sounds like its not the amount of contact that is the issue its the fact he is insecure about the relationship and his part in it. I learned you CANT fix guys and you shouldnt its not your job to heal anyone it only drags you down and leaves you feeling drained and empty.

    His problems as sad as they are are HIS problems and HE alone must deal with them, often guys like this will make their problems yours so they dont feel so bad or so insecure they pull you down do they dont have to change or grow because now you are just like them. Now in your frustration have resorted to name calling etc and are a shadow of your former self. That is my 2 cents worth from my own experiences.

    I think alot of women sell themselves short so they go for the wrong guys thinking they can turn them into the right guys only to be left souless loveless frustrated etc. You can do better and you should never put up with crap like that. In the same light i totally get where you are coming from having been abused by my parents then later on by boyfriends your BS indicator is off!

    Women who are abused take more **** and will be longer suffering than those who have not because abused tampers with your sense of normalcy and your self respect and esteem. But your past and your past self dosent have to be your future, you can change it by changing yourself and getting rid of all toxic relationships, when you love yourself and respect yourself and know whe you are and OWN it then you'll be able to spot the bs from the start nip it in the bud and save yourself years of heartache. Your tolerance has to change if you take
    this much of bs right now you have to learn to - take that much before nipping it in the bud. Guys will lie and say YOUR HIGH MAINTENANCE dont believe it guys will push and push until they find a way to get you on their side, have high standards set your goals high but make sure you work on yourself true change comes from within first.


    Okay... when arguing, he makes me feel bad about things that he never mentioned bothering him before. Lately, he whines about the amount of contact we have. We talk 3 times a day on the phone, text, and see each other on the weekends and at least once during the week. He can get ragingly jealous. He always sees hidden meanings in simple things like not sitting with him in group settings.

    I'm not saying that he is outwardly trying to control me. I've been in a completely controlling relationship before and this isn't even close. I'm just worried things are going to progress in that direction. He suffers from PTSD. I have been in multiple, abusive relationships so I have a natural inclination to let things go when I shouldn't.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    please please please read this.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/07/09/men-really-need-to-stop-calling-women-crazy/


    and read up on gaslighting- it's not "abuse" and I'm not saying lets start a new movement to stop gaslighting (god that would go over light a fart in an elevator) but people SERIOUSLY underestimate the power people give to one another and how easy it is to just say "it's a joke"

    8 months into a relationship with someone you've known a long time should NOT be a time for couples counseling. you're barely even a couple yet. i think you both probably need some counseling, but for your own separate issues, not for the purpose of staying together.

    indubitably.

    Took me easily 6 months to start calling mine boyfriend- for the first year- he was mostly just "hey so and so - this is M...." And that was it.
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    I found the book "the seven principles for making marriage work" to have a good perspective.
  • the_summer_belle
    the_summer_belle Posts: 353 Member
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    Great article, Gas lighting is also a big sign pointing to mental illness and personality disorders, its what narcissist use to control their victims into submission it always start subtly then snowballs from there until its obvious by then its too late your trapped in their web of lies and they now have control over you.

    please please please read this.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/07/09/men-really-need-to-stop-calling-women-crazy/


    and read up on gaslighting- it's not "abuse" and I'm not saying lets start a new movement to stop gaslighting (god that would go over light a fart in an elevator) but people SERIOUSLY underestimate the power people give to one another and how easy it is to just say "it's a joke"

    8 months into a relationship with someone you've known a long time should NOT be a time for couples counseling. you're barely even a couple yet. i think you both probably need some counseling, but for your own separate issues, not for the purpose of staying together.

    indubitably.

    Took me easily 6 months to start calling mine boyfriend- for the first year- he was mostly just "hey so and so - this is M...." And that was it.
  • the_summer_belle
    the_summer_belle Posts: 353 Member
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    Often people will say gee my partner is a little controlling but don't realise this person is really a narc. This goes for men and women both here are 7 basic signs your dating a narc. Id encourage you all to read up on this narcissism isnt the love of self its actually the oppostise they hate themselves so much they gather people around them to make them feel good they do it with a mask of self love and confidence but its fake they often will prey upon one person who they control and abuse they are good at biding their time it will always start out subtly and in the end when you finally realise who they really are no one believes you because they dont see that side to the narc they are the ultimate deceivers and their victims suffer terribly.

    Do they, at first, shower you with attention? This preliminary deception stage is crucial for building faux rapport. During your 'seduction,' they will give you the false impression of being interested in you for your own sake.

    2. Do they retract when you pay positive attention to someone else at a party or social gathering? Narcissists' hyperbolic need for validation makes them irritable and impatient when they witness others receiving what they believe to be 'their due' of attention.

    3. Do they seek to criticize or reduce others? Narcissists will often pick apart those they perceive as threats to their attention/glory quota.

    4. Do they never seem satisfied with positive feedback, and are always angling for more specific affirmations? The insatiable need for compliments is a hallmark of narcissism.

    5. Do they lack empathy towards others, and you? If they cannot offer physical or verbal comfort when you or someone else is visibly distressed, seem unresponsive to your expression of feelings, intimate thoughts, or emotions, or even merely seem to purposefully ignore social niceties (believing themselves above them), don't walk, don't try and gather up the stuff of yours you have at theirs, just get the hell out.

    6. Do they have an unrealistic belief in their own abilities? A true narcissist will self-mythologize, over-exaggerating or even lying about their talents. Being frequently convinced of their own powers of influence, narcissists often manage to readily convince people of their lies (think Californian cult leader).

    7. Do they use you and others purely for their own gain? If you've felt repeatedly duped, put upon, manipulated or abused (all in the so-called name of love), commiserations--you too have fallen for a narcissist.

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