Researchers claiming it's impossible to keep weight off
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I don't care enough about whether you believe me, or any study, to go through the trouble of searching for articles and studies on the topic I've come across through the years.
You can believe whatever percentages you like, whatever helps your road. Has nothing to do with me sir.
Oh ok, thanks, now I know in the future not to try and have a discussion with you. Will save us both a lot of time.
I don't post on MFP to have a discussion specifically with you. I don't even know who the hell you are LOL. So yes, that works just fine.
The thing is that if you refer to studies, don't supply references and blow off people who try to engage intelligently with you, then you are essentially talking to yourself - just adding valueless noise.0 -
Gotcha. And I truly appreciate you linking those.
My initial reason for posting was because someone (not you) said every single study shows abysmal failure rate, and I wasn't sure if that was true and felt it was a pretty strong statement to make and not back up.
BTW - Was one of the studies you mentioned, the paper that the original news article referenced?
Here is an interesting study...
Tracked people from the NWCR who had successfully kept weight off for a year (followed them for 10 years after that):
http://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(13)00528-X/abstract
Mean weight loss was 31.3 kg (95% CI=30.8, 31.9) at baseline, 23.8 kg (95% CI=23.2, 24.4) at 5 years and 23.1±0.4 kg (95% CI=22.3, 23.9) at 10 years. More than 87% of participants were estimated to be still maintaining at least a 10% weight loss at Years 5 and 10. Larger initial weight losses and longer duration of maintenance were associated with better long-term outcomes. Decreases in leisure-time physical activity, dietary restraint, and frequency of self-weighing and increases in percentage of energy intake from fat and disinhibition were associated with greater weight regain.
Now THAT is helpful. Thanks!!!0 -
Watching this with interest...
I lost 90lbs by doing it slowly, it was a lifestyle change that I was going to stick to blah blah blah. I kept it off for a year. Then I got a trapped nerve in my back which meant I had to give up running. Then I changed jobs and am more sedentary. Suddenly 25lbs has piled back on and I am knocking at the door of overweight again. So I'm back to lose it, hoping that I don't take my eye off the ball again. But for me, maintenance was just as hard as losing it in the first place, but without the highs of seeing the scale drop.
This is what kills me every time. I know that weight maintenance = portion control but I have a hard time caring about what I'm putting in my body when I'm not actively engaged in something.0 -
In to save this thread for later reading!0
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No, according to scientists, it's magic!I've read and reread this article and where does it say that they revert back to old habits? It doesn't say that anywhere that 95% of people revert to old eating habits and a sedentary lifestyle.0 -
I would say that is an opinion piece written by a journalist not a scientific paper. Just because a journalist talks about what certain scientists think personally doesn't make that science.
Scientists are people, they have opinions too. Not everything that exits a scientists mouth is science.
Agh... True.0 -
(Joining this thread for later reading and replying.)0
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I would say that is an opinion piece written by a journalist not a scientific paper. Just because a journalist talks about what certain scientists think personally doesn't make that science.
Scientists are people, they have opinions too. Not everything that exits a scientists mouth is science.
Agh... True.
GREAT POINT!0 -
I would say that is an opinion piece written by a journalist not a scientific paper. Just because a journalist talks about what certain scientists think personally doesn't make that science.
Scientists are people, they have opinions too. Not everything that exits a scientists mouth is science.
The article isn't written by a journalist. It says "For psychologist Traci Mann, who has spent 20 years running an eating lab at the University of Minnesota..."0 -
I agree. Diets don't work. HABIT CHANGE IS WHAT WORKS. Period.0
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I would say that is an opinion piece written by a journalist not a scientific paper. Just because a journalist talks about what certain scientists think personally doesn't make that science.
Scientists are people, they have opinions too. Not everything that exits a scientists mouth is science.
The article isn't written by a journalist. It says "For psychologist Traci Mann, who has spent 20 years running an eating lab at the University of Minnesota..."
The byline for the article is Kelly Crowe at CBC news.
That quote is a lead in to an OPINION expressed by a psychologist who studies eating behavior.0 -
I agree. Diets don't work. HABIT CHANGE IS WHAT WORKS. Period.
And habit change is where the shoe sticks. People have done it though. A whole lot of people, depending on how you're counting them.0 -
http://www.weightymatters.ca/2014/06/more-on-almost-impossible-feat-of.htmlWhat I'm getting at is that I think what makes maintaining weight loss seem "almost impossible" are the goal posts society has generally set to measure success. No doubt, if the goal set is losing every last ounce of weight that some stupid chart says you're supposed to lose then the descriptor "almost impossible" may well be fair. On the other hand, if the goal is to cultivate the healthiest life that you can honestly enjoy, subtotal losses, often with significant concomitant health improvements, are definitely within your reach.0
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I would say that is an opinion piece written by a journalist not a scientific paper. Just because a journalist talks about what certain scientists think personally doesn't make that science.
Scientists are people, they have opinions too. Not everything that exits a scientists mouth is science.
The article isn't written by a journalist. It says "For psychologist Traci Mann, who has spent 20 years running an eating lab at the University of Minnesota..."
Traci Mann? :laugh:0 -
This is one of the most infuriating pieces of garbage I've read in a long time.
"Long-term weight loss happens to only the smallest minority of people."
It doesn't 'happen to' people. People make choices and these choices affect our health.
"...if we check back after five or 10 years, there's a good chance they will have put the weight back on. Only about five per cent of people who try to lose weight ultimately succeed, according to the research... Those kinds of stories really keep the myth alive..."
Myth: (n.) a widely held but false belief or idea.
It's not a false belief or idea that weight loss is possible. In fact, the idea that it is IMpossible is false, and downright insulting to the human race and our grand achievements. We have put people on the moon, but it's impossible for an individual to change his/her lifestyle? Laughable.
"You should still eat right, you should still exercise, doing healthy stuff is still healthy... It just doesn't make you thin."
Yes it does. Moreover 'thin' is a generally incomplete goal-- FIT and MOBILE are better ones. And training and nutrition can indeed lead to fitness and mobility for anyone.
"...we are held hostage to our biology, which is adapted to gain weight..."
No, we aren't. Biology is 1/3 the explanation for any human behavior, with psychology and sociology being the other 2/3. Any first-year psych student can explain this idea in detail. Perhaps these researchers should've consulted one.
I have my own theory as to why people in our society are unable to maintain healthy lifestyles: it's because we live in a culture that facilitates a pervasive refusal to take ACCOUNTABILITY, largely by throwing around excuses for self-destructive behavior and calling them science.0 -
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I ain't skirrred. LOL0
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This is just want people *want* to hear to prevent them from even feeling like they have to try. Sad that they post this kind of stuff, and then the next segment probably promote some new diet syrup or some crap!0
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Okay… I'm confused. Now, granted, I'm nowhere close to maintenance level, so forgive me if this is ignorant…. but isn't weight essentially about calories in vs. calories out?
To lose weight you have less calories in than calories out.
To gain weight you have more calories in than calories out.
Maintaining weight should mean that you eat the same amount of calories as you burn. If a person really commits to losing weight and keeping it off… then maintaining really shouldn't be any harder than losing… correct?
Now, granted, our metabolism slows as we age… so unless we adjust our calorie intake to equal it… then yes… we will gain weight. And the less we weigh… the less calories we burn… so unless we adjust our calorie intake to account for that as well, then yes, we'll gain the weight back.
But for those who are determined to follow through… how does this make maintaining a weight loss "nearly impossible?" Or as I commonly hear on these boards..."harder than losing it?"
I don't wish to be unkind or judgmental… because heaven knows I'm in to place to do so!… But it seems to me that people who claim that maintaining weight loss is impossible or "even harder than losing it" are people who are trying to go back to their old ways of eating and don't really want to change long term.0 -
"Only about five per cent of people who try to lose weight ultimately succeed"
I don't think that is a bad outcome. If you just "try", you base your effort on chance. Weight management has nothing to do with luck. It's about knowledge, logic, and environment and behavior modification.0 -
"Only about five per cent of people who try to lose weight ultimately succeed"
I don't think that is a bad outcome. If you just "try", you base your effort on chance. Weight management has nothing to do with luck. It's about knowledge, logic, and environment and behavior modification.
Well yeah I know I don't really see how this is much of a surprise. If it was easy to permanently and stably change your lifestyle everyone would do it and there would be no fat people. It's not that there's some magic factor that keeps fat people fat. But there is a reason overweight people become overweight. And it's usually pretty fundamental to their decision making processes and the way they live their lives. Changing that is an achievement not to be under estimated.0 -
I've seen research based on this before, (however correct me if it's been disproved since) and it does have some scientific merit to it, not that I'm making excuses for anyone but it is technically harder for a previously overweight person to maintain at a healthy weight than someone who's never been overweight because someone who was previously overweight will have more fat cels.
When we gain weight and fat cels reach full capacity our body creates more fat cels to store more fat, however when we lose weight these cels don't disappear they just shrink, but because the fat storage cels are still present it is easier for a previously overweight person to put on weight if they have a bad couple of weeks because the cels are already in place so the body is more efficient in storing fat.
So basically as long as you can maintain a healthy lifestyle after weight loss you'll be fine, but you have the potential for faster weight gain with any long period of return to bad habits. xxx But please correct me if I'm wrong x0 -
Some people who have lost weight will regain their weight - not because it is scientifically impossible to keep off, but because they slip back into their old habits, you know - the ones that made them gain the weight in the first place.....
This is a lifestyle change, not a diet.... Hence the reason I don't believe in Slimming World, Weight Watchers, Paleo (sorry about my spelling if this is wrong) to name but a few.... If you make small, permanent changes and they lead to weight loss, then the weight will stay off....
xXx0 -
I read this this morning and laughed. Seriously? They don't think it has anything to do with the fact that people stop sticking to a diet and exercise plan after they've been at goal for a while? Come on. What say you, MFPers?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/obesity-research-confirms-long-term-weight-loss-almost-impossible-1.2663585
I think it's a darn good article. I didn't see where it said it had nothing to do with people sticking to a plan. My take was that is EXACTLY what it was saying. And statistics are statistics. We can all think we are going to be that success story. We are going to be the one to keep it off forever. But, the reality is that only 5% of us will.
I've seen so many posts bragging about keeping the weight off for a whole year or even two. I've done that too. Several times.
ETA: the article didn't say it was impossible. It said "nearly impossible", which seems pretty accurate for something with a 95% failure rate.
Like it or Not...This is the "Truth".0 -
People will gain weight over time, it's true. Everyone would, not just people who lost weight before. Some people just fix it before it gets too far and others will let it go to when you have to fix or ELSE. I have never been overweight nor skinny. I'm more like average, whenever I gained 10 pounds or so, I realized and I would fix it before it gets too far. If I didn't, I would be 30+ pounds than I should be at right now.0
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This is a lifestyle change, not a diet.... Hence the reason I don't believe in Slimming World, Weight Watchers, Paleo (sorry about my spelling if this is wrong) to name but a few.... If you make small, permanent changes and they lead to weight loss, then the weight will stay off....
xXx
Slimming World, Weight Watchers, Paleo, any program, all are designed to be looked at as a "lifestyle change".
And all have the exact same abysmal long term success rates as the calorie counting/everything in moderation "lifestyle change".
People keep clinging desperately to the idea that merely labeling their efforts as a "lifestyle change" somehow gives them a greater chance than everybody else who loses and fails to maintain their loss using other methods. It matters little what approach you take, at the end of the day you'll have to fight to keep that weight off nearly every day for the rest of your life. That's what gets people ultimately in trouble, having to do this thing day in and out until the day they die. The majority of people don't have that kind of resolve.0 -
I've seen research based on this before, (however correct me if it's been disproved since) and it does have some scientific merit to it, not that I'm making excuses for anyone but it is technically harder for a previously overweight person to maintain at a healthy weight than someone who's never been overweight because someone who was previously overweight will have more fat cels.
When we gain weight and fat cels reach full capacity our body creates more fat cels to store more fat, however when we lose weight these cels don't disappear they just shrink, but because the fat storage cels are still present it is easier for a previously overweight person to put on weight if they have a bad couple of weeks because the cels are already in place so the body is more efficient in storing fat.
So basically as long as you can maintain a healthy lifestyle after weight loss you'll be fine, but you have the potential for faster weight gain with any long period of return to bad habits. xxx But please correct me if I'm wrong x
If this is an actual research you are hinting at, then it may be interesting to explore liposuction post weight loss as an option to reduce the number of fat cells. Wish you remembered which research that was.
About the original article, I don't find it that offensive. I actually find it true. I will also mention a study I read a few years back (sadly can't remember the source either): They had two groups of women and a control. The first group had maintenance counselling and practiced healthy habits for 6 months before going on a diet, the second had the same counselling and habits for 6 months after their diet. It was found that the first group, who went into the diet knowing what to expect afterwards and how to deal with it, maintained the weight far better than the group who went blindly on a diet where it felt like two different phases, weight loss and maintenance.
Regain is actually very common due to many reasons, some of which have to do with the diet mentality; I've lost it all, now I can eat whatever I want. Another could have to do with loss of motivation or interest to maintain because the results you are getting are not as visual and drastic as weight loss. With weight being no longer a problem, interests shift. Those who kept exercising have fared much better when it comes to maintenance because they do have clear cut goals and something to focus on.
None of us is immune to these effects. I know I'm not. That's why my plan is to transition from weight loss to maintenance as smoothly as possible and to try and stay focused on fitness goals, which will alert me right away if I gain weight and it starts compromising my fitness goals.
Let's not forget that in general as they age people, especially women, are likely to gain 1-5 kg every 5 years, so that too needs to be factored into the results during maintenance.0 -
Slimming World, Weight Watchers, Paleo, any program, all are designed to be looked at as a "lifestyle change".
And all have the exact same abysmal long term success rates as the calorie counting/everything in moderation "lifestyle change".
People keep clinging desperately to the idea that merely labeling their efforts as a "lifestyle change" somehow gives them a greater chance than everybody else who loses and fails to maintain their loss using other methods. It matters little what approach you take, at the end of the day you'll have to fight to keep that weight off nearly every day for the rest of your life. That's what gets people ultimately in trouble, having to do this thing day in and out until the day they die. The majority of people don't have that kind of resolve.
Word.0 -
I'm 3+ standard deviations from the mean in several ways. I laugh at her puny 95% failure rate.0
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Slimming World, Weight Watchers, Paleo, any program, all are designed to be looked at as a "lifestyle change".
And all have the exact same abysmal long term success rates as the calorie counting/everything in moderation "lifestyle change".
People keep clinging desperately to the idea that merely labeling their efforts as a "lifestyle change" somehow gives them a greater chance than everybody else who loses and fails to maintain their loss using other methods. It matters little what approach you take, at the end of the day you'll have to fight to keep that weight off nearly every day for the rest of your life. That's what gets people ultimately in trouble, having to do this thing day in and out until the day they die. The majority of people don't have that kind of resolve.
Word.
Yeah. I lost 16% of my bodyweight and then maintained without tracking all last summer. I decided to bulk in the early spring and started tracking again. I lost 2.5 pounds of fat and gained 2.5 pounds of muscle (That was a really bad job at bulking, but I learned a lot). I then cut for six weeks and lost 5 pounds. I'm now maintaining without tracking again.
There is no resolve. I eat when I'm hungry. I have a gut feel for portions. I do resistance training because I want to be able to do things in the world and I run because I love it. If it burned no calories or made me fat, I'd still do it.
Maybe my metabolism is slower, but I'm betting my NEAT is way higher than when I was obese. My activity level is certainly higher.0
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