Egg Fast!! Who's in?

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  • missliv85
    missliv85 Posts: 23 Member
    I didn't make the rules, nor will I follow them completely. I wont eat as much butter, instead I will replace most of it with avocado and coconut oil. The idea is to keep it low carb so your body runs on its own fat, rather than glucose. Sometimes changing things up can break through a stall, that's all it's meant to do. It's only 3 days. Everyone just gets so up in a huff thinking they know everything about everything. And it seems more people are on here looking to make jokes and make friends. Perhaps its something they lack in the real world, I don't know...

    But if you go on low carb friends there are many posts like these and people are very loving and supportive. Maybe MFP forums are exactly that... a joke.
  • TheSatinPumpkin
    TheSatinPumpkin Posts: 948 Member
    I am a member of LCF andI would do #1 but not the others. good luck in your progress though.
  • Alluminati
    Alluminati Posts: 6,208 Member
    I didn't make the rules, nor will I follow them completely. I wont eat as much butter, instead I will replace most of it with avocado and coconut oil. The idea is to keep it low carb so your body runs on its own fat, rather than glucose. Sometimes changing things up can break through a stall, that's all it's meant to do. It's only 3 days. Everyone just gets so up in a huff thinking they know everything about everything. And it seems more people are on here looking to make jokes and make friends. Perhaps its something they lack in the real world, I don't know...

    But if you go on low carb friends there are many posts like these and people are very loving and supportive. Maybe MFP forums are exactly that... a joke.

    And you're on here with a whopping 6 posts , most of them defending some ridiculous egg-fast with no scientific basis on why it works. What does that say about you, baby boo?
  • missliv85
    missliv85 Posts: 23 Member
    This gal did an egg fast just last week and blogged about it. She made a menu with some recipes to break up the monotony of the scrambled egg. It looks intriguing. I would be afraid that I would gain it all right back. Here is the link if you want to check out her blog though. Good luck! http://www.ibreatheimhungry.com/2014/07/egg-fast-diet-menu-plan-low-carb-keto.html

    Thank you. I've actually read this and many others. Its not meant to be a life plan obviously haha. Im headed to a music festival in a couple weeks, and I would like to get rid of my last 5 lbs and the excess water weight.
  • missliv85
    missliv85 Posts: 23 Member
    I didn't make the rules, nor will I follow them completely. I wont eat as much butter, instead I will replace most of it with avocado and coconut oil. The idea is to keep it low carb so your body runs on its own fat, rather than glucose. Sometimes changing things up can break through a stall, that's all it's meant to do. It's only 3 days. Everyone just gets so up in a huff thinking they know everything about everything. And it seems more people are on here looking to make jokes and make friends. Perhaps its something they lack in the real world, I don't know...

    But if you go on low carb friends there are many posts like these and people are very loving and supportive. Maybe MFP forums are exactly that... a joke.

    And you're on here with a whopping 6 posts , most of them defending some ridiculous egg-fast with no scientific basis on why it works. What does that say about you, baby boo?

    The fact that you have 1,377 posts says a lot more about you...
  • randomtai
    randomtai Posts: 9,003 Member
    I didn't make the rules, nor will I follow them completely. I wont eat as much butter, instead I will replace most of it with avocado and coconut oil. The idea is to keep it low carb so your body runs on its own fat, rather than glucose. Sometimes changing things up can break through a stall, that's all it's meant to do. It's only 3 days. Everyone just gets so up in a huff thinking they know everything about everything. And it seems more people are on here looking to make jokes and make friends. Perhaps its something they lack in the real world, I don't know...

    But if you go on low carb friends there are many posts like these and people are very loving and supportive. Maybe MFP forums are exactly that... a joke.

    And you're on here with a whopping 6 posts , most of them defending some ridiculous egg-fast with no scientific basis on why it works. What does that say about you, baby boo?

    The fact that you have 1,377 posts says a lot more about you...

    What that they are helpful on the boards?
  • williams969
    williams969 Posts: 2,528 Member
    Sorry, I don't follow diets that have rules.

    +1 Nor do I follow diets with the word "Diet" in them. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE eggs and eat a dozen every week. But to eat ONLY them, with arbitrary restrictions on when to eat them, cheese to egg ratio, etc. is weird and "quack science-ish."

    OP--2/3 weeks in and you've declared yourself stuck? Such a confusing, terribly restricted food plan sounds like a set-up for feelings of sadness and failure (oh, yeah and constipation--not good). Please, for your health, read the "sexypants" link and the other helpful resources a few posts above me.
  • lynn1982
    lynn1982 Posts: 1,439 Member
    I'm going to start a chocolate diet. Who's in?!

    Now we're talking. ;)
  • Lleldiranne
    Lleldiranne Posts: 5,516 Member
    I didn't make the rules, nor will I follow them completely. I wont eat as much butter, instead I will replace most of it with avocado and coconut oil. The idea is to keep it low carb so your body runs on its own fat, rather than glucose. Sometimes changing things up can break through a stall, that's all it's meant to do. It's only 3 days. Everyone just gets so up in a huff thinking they know everything about everything. And it seems more people are on here looking to make jokes and make friends. Perhaps its something they lack in the real world, I don't know...

    But if you go on low carb friends there are many posts like these and people are very loving and supportive. Maybe MFP forums are exactly that... a joke.

    MFP doesn't support extreme diets. In fact, check out the TOS ... promotion of extreme diets (especially VLCD, though not necessarily limited to them) is prohibited. Here it is for you:
    3. No Promotion of Unsafe Weight-Loss Techniques or Eating Disorders

    a) Posts intended to promote potentially unsafe or controversial weight loss products or procedures, including non-medically prescribed supplements or MLM products will be removed without warning.

    This egg-fast, as the rules seem to convey it, could definitely fall into this unsafe practice policy.

    If you want support for your "egg fast" then, by all means, go to the sites that will provide that.

    If you want support on an overall weight loss and maintenance journey by building sustainable lifetime habits, then MFP is definitely the place. But, yeah, we do tend to see fad diets and quick-fix plans as not a good idea, and hilarity often ensues.


    {I'm just waiting for the mean-people follow up thread}
  • ILiftHeavyAcrylics
    ILiftHeavyAcrylics Posts: 27,732 Member
    In general, diets that only allow a narrow range of foods are a bad idea. This "diet" would be severely lacking in nutrients. Just eat reasonably and be patient. Nothing good comes of plans like this.
  • Wilhellmina
    Wilhellmina Posts: 757 Member
    I have done the egg diet. I smelled like egg, felt like an egg and if I would continue probably look like one as well. End result was only temporary.
  • ILiftHeavyAcrylics
    ILiftHeavyAcrylics Posts: 27,732 Member
    I didn't make the rules, nor will I follow them completely. I wont eat as much butter, instead I will replace most of it with avocado and coconut oil. The idea is to keep it low carb so your body runs on its own fat, rather than glucose. Sometimes changing things up can break through a stall, that's all it's meant to do. It's only 3 days. Everyone just gets so up in a huff thinking they know everything about everything. And it seems more people are on here looking to make jokes and make friends. Perhaps its something they lack in the real world, I don't know...

    But if you go on low carb friends there are many posts like these and people are very loving and supportive. Maybe MFP forums are exactly that... a joke.

    You will not find support for unhealthy practices on MFP. It's in the community guidelines and the community doesn't tolerate it either. That's a good thing, not a bad one.
  • williams969
    williams969 Posts: 2,528 Member

    Thank you. I've actually read this and many others. Its not meant to be a life plan obviously haha. Im headed to a music festival in a couple weeks, and I would like to get rid of my last 5 lbs and the excess water weight.

    Is there a weight limit at said music festival? Why does it matter? And, as soon as you stop this diet (like at the concert--I'm guessing you won't bring a carton of eggs with you), that water weight will go right back on ya.

    Random out-loud pondering to no one in particular: Oh, why oh why is "water weight" such a bad thing, especially to some women? People are just water-filled meat bags, after all.
  • doIdaretoeatapeach
    doIdaretoeatapeach Posts: 26 Member
    I'm also your parent's age, and will resist my normal default to snarky and sarcastic just for you. :flowerforyou:

    Minimum of 6 eggs at approx. 90 cal = 540 calories
    1 tbsp butter per egg @ 100 cal/tbsp = 600 calories
    1 oz cheese per egg @ 110 cal/0z = 660 calories

    So the 'diet' is at least 1140 calories per day without cheese. Almost anyone can lose weight eating 1140 calories of anything a day. Personally, if I ate the full eggs + cheese + butter at 1800 calories per day (assuming I could tolerate the indigestion and nausea from eating that combination for a full day), I would not lose weight without exercise.

    Lots of posters, including the snarky ones, have a solid background in nutrition and read scholarly articles on the subject. That diet is not nutritionally sound and not conducive to long term weight control. Snark and "spank, hug, push into a bear trap" threads notwithstanding, this site rightfully emphasizes good nutrition and long term weight control strategies. Those would be much better habits to develop before you're old and inappropriate like people your parents' age. Don't wind up like us. :wink:
  • missliv85
    missliv85 Posts: 23 Member

    Thank you. I've actually read this and many others. Its not meant to be a life plan obviously haha. Im headed to a music festival in a couple weeks, and I would like to get rid of my last 5 lbs and the excess water weight.

    Is there a weight limit at said music festival? Why does it matter? And, as soon as you stop this diet (like at the concert--I'm guessing you won't bring a carton of eggs with you), that water weight will go right back on ya.

    Random out-loud pondering to no one in particular: Oh, why oh why is "water weight" such a bad thing, especially to some women? People are just water-filled meat bags, after all.

    Its a 3 day plan to break a stall... Why is no one understanding this? haha. The festival isn't for 2 weeks! After the 3 days I will go back to the low carb diet I am currently on ( which is 1200 to 1400 calories)
  • nancytyc
    nancytyc Posts: 119 Member
    Well, of course I have to pipe in. First, all she is really doing, is a type of LCHF diet transition. I am on the LCHF (Low Carb High Fat) diet for nearly 90 days. It is the first "diet" that I have ever been able to go so long without "cheating". I say diet and cheating, but really this is a lifestyle I am able to maintain and be happy with the foods I eat.

    That said, yes, the other posters are correct. As soon as you go off your "egg fast", you are going to gain 25% to 50% of the "weight" right back. I did the "fat" fast for the first 10 days of my initiating my transformation and dropped 21 pounds in that 10 days. Mostly, water!! ....and I quickly gained back about 7 of those pounds. But, I put my body in heavy Ketosis and kept it there ever since. SO, if your point is to put your body in Ketosis, because you plan to stay Low Carb for the remainder of your weight loss, then you are starting right....depleting your glycogen stores. If your point is to simply break a stall, and you will go back to carbohydrate consumption, then you will most likely put on a few extra pounds as your body will quickly store the carbs for future carb starvation episodes.

    Dangerous.....for three days.....ABSOLUTELY NOT!! Our bodies store enough of what we need to more than handle three days of fasting....so three days of an "egg fast" are not going to hurt you. I ate nothing but macadamia nuts, butter, heavy cream, and cream cheese......for 10 days on a doctors advice and a nutritionists guidance.....the result.....off of all my diabetes injections and down to only half of one oral med. Others would have said to do that for 10 days (90% of my calories from saturated and other fats) would be DANGEROUS.

    In ending....I think whatever makes you happy.....you should do....but be sensible in what you do. Ask yourself what you plan to accomplish and do the research to back up your decision. The Internet is crawling with reliable resources to help you break that stall. Me.....I am in the middle of a heavy stall right now.....but I have lost 40 pounds in under 90 days.....my body needs time to adjust....so I will keep doing what made me lose the first 40 pounds and just wait it out until my body catches up. Also, usually during stalls....you are actually losing inches instead of weight.

    My thoughts.
  • JG762
    JG762 Posts: 571 Member
    The butthurt is going to be strong in this one....

    Dude! you're my dad's age and you're acting like a bully. Shame on you!

    LoL...
  • whovian67
    whovian67 Posts: 608 Member
    I wont be snarky....I'll stick to my 4 egg whites a day...thinks thats all the eggs I can handle ..:) Best of luck to you....1 TBSP of butter per egg...seems excessive...

    Anyway..one gets tired nof fads and it will fall back onto lifestyle changes, etc...so have fun with it,.,,,you can say you did it.....

    I admitttedly have tried cabbage soup and grapefruit diets backj in the day :L)
  • missliv85
    missliv85 Posts: 23 Member
    I'm also your parent's age, and will resist my normal default to snarky and sarcastic just for you. :flowerforyou:

    Minimum of 6 eggs at approx. 90 cal = 540 calories
    1 tbsp butter per egg @ 100 cal/tbsp = 600 calories
    1 oz cheese per egg @ 110 cal/0z = 660 calories

    So the 'diet' is at least 1140 calories per day without cheese. Almost anyone can lose weight eating 1140 calories of anything a day. Personally, if I ate the full eggs + cheese + butter at 1800 calories per day (assuming I could tolerate the indigestion and nausea from eating that combination for a full day), I would not lose weight without exercise.

    Lots of posters, including the snarky ones, have a solid background in nutrition and read scholarly articles on the subject. That diet is not nutritionally sound and not conducive to long term weight control. Snark and "spank, hug, push into a bear trap" threads notwithstanding, this site rightfully emphasizes good nutrition and long term weight control strategies. Those would be much better habits to develop before you're old and inappropriate like people your parents' age. Don't wind up like us. :wink:

    I appreciate your post, as its more constructive then some who simply post "NO" or "REALLY". Im currently eating between 1200-1400 and I'm not losing. I get out to exercise each day, but its hard right now ( currently in a medical radiography program that keeps me doing school work for the majority of the day). All I want is something to change things up.
  • JG762
    JG762 Posts: 571 Member
    I'm going to start a chocolate diet. Who's in?!

    As long as it's only chocolate eggs I'm in....

    Cadbury cream eggs. My eyes just glazed over and I started drooling.

    OP, this is not a balanced or sustainable plan. Please reconsider. Based on the responses in this thread, I would guess that if you are still going to go ahead with it, it will be a solo flight. Read through the links that have been given and be kind to your body.

    LETS START THE CADBURY EGG DIET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    In for the Cadbury creme egg diet.

    Way ahead of you ladies!
    I've already been issued a patent on this diet, in order to participate you MUST send me a package of those tasty eggs...
    There's always a price to pay for the good stuff!!! LoL

    :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

    You said chocolate egg, not specifically Cadbury. Don't make me come over there.... :grumble: :grumble:

    People trying to steal my chocolate eggs.... :angry: :grumble: :grumble:

    Kidding! I'll send you my left-overs :laugh:

    Hey! I'm just covering all the bases!
    Oh wait, that doesn't make me a bully does it?
  • missliv85
    missliv85 Posts: 23 Member
    Well, of course I have to pipe in. First, all she is really doing, is a type of LCHF diet transition. I am on the LCHF (Low Carb High Fat) diet for nearly 90 days. It is the first "diet" that I have ever been able to go so long without "cheating". I say diet and cheating, but really this is a lifestyle I am able to maintain and be happy with the foods I eat.

    That said, yes, the other posters are correct. As soon as you go off your "egg fast", you are going to gain 25% to 50% of the "weight" right back. I did the "fat" fast for the first 10 days of my initiating my transformation and dropped 21 pounds in that 10 days. Mostly, water!! ....and I quickly gained back about 7 of those pounds. But, I put my body in heavy Ketosis and kept it there ever since. SO, if your point is to put your body in Ketosis, because you plan to stay Low Carb for the remainder of your weight loss, then you are starting right....depleting your glycogen stores. If your point is to simply break a stall, and you will go back to carbohydrate consumption, then you will most likely put on a few extra pounds as your body will quickly store the carbs for future carb starvation episodes.

    Dangerous.....for three days.....ABSOLUTELY NOT!! Our bodies store enough of what we need to more than handle three days of fasting....so three days of an "egg fast" are not going to hurt you. I ate nothing but macadamia nuts, butter, heavy cream, and cream cheese......for 10 days on a doctors advice and a nutritionists guidance.....the result.....off of all my diabetes injections and down to only half of one oral med. Others would have said to do that for 10 days (90% of my calories from saturated and other fats) would be DANGEROUS.

    In ending....I think whatever makes you happy.....you should do....but be sensible in what you do. Ask yourself what you plan to accomplish and do the research to back up your decision. The Internet is crawling with reliable resources to help you break that stall. Me.....I am in the middle of a heavy stall right now.....but I have lost 40 pounds in under 90 days.....my body needs time to adjust....so I will keep doing what made me lose the first 40 pounds and just wait it out until my body catches up. Also, usually during stalls....you are actually losing inches instead of weight.

    My thoughts.

    Finally, someone who understands the principles I am following. I have been on low'ish carb (30-40g a day) and have stayed in ketosis. But it's been 2 weeks since Ive lost anything, so the egg diet is just a way to get my carbs lower. The "rule" of just eggs makes it simple, which I like. And like you mentioned, it's only 3 days, and there is absolutely nothing dangerous about that...in fact, it might be good for me.
  • zoeysasha37
    zoeysasha37 Posts: 7,088 Member
    I'm seriously lmfao!! Egg diet sounds absolutely ridiculous!!! I needed a good laugh today. Btw, I'm in for the chocolate diet though!! Lol
  • GiveMeCoffee
    GiveMeCoffee Posts: 3,556 Member

    Thank you. I've actually read this and many others. Its not meant to be a life plan obviously haha. Im headed to a music festival in a couple weeks, and I would like to get rid of my last 5 lbs and the excess water weight.

    Is there a weight limit at said music festival? Why does it matter? And, as soon as you stop this diet (like at the concert--I'm guessing you won't bring a carton of eggs with you), that water weight will go right back on ya.

    Random out-loud pondering to no one in particular: Oh, why oh why is "water weight" such a bad thing, especially to some women? People are just water-filled meat bags, after all.

    Its a 3 day plan to break a stall... Why is no one understanding this? haha. The festival isn't for 2 weeks! After the 3 days I will go back to the low carb diet I am currently on ( which is 1200 to 1400 calories)

    You've been on your diet for 3 weeks and lost 5 lbs with very little to lose how is that a stall????

    But do whatever you plan on doing... the rules are overly restrictive, ridiculous and most are based in old diet myths.
  • jesiann2014
    jesiann2014 Posts: 521 Member
    I can't get past the 'tablespoon of butter with each egg"!! Blech!! That's a lot of butter...
  • GiveMeCoffee
    GiveMeCoffee Posts: 3,556 Member
    Well, of course I have to pipe in. First, all she is really doing, is a type of LCHF diet transition. I am on the LCHF (Low Carb High Fat) diet for nearly 90 days. It is the first "diet" that I have ever been able to go so long without "cheating". I say diet and cheating, but really this is a lifestyle I am able to maintain and be happy with the foods I eat.

    That said, yes, the other posters are correct. As soon as you go off your "egg fast", you are going to gain 25% to 50% of the "weight" right back. I did the "fat" fast for the first 10 days of my initiating my transformation and dropped 21 pounds in that 10 days. Mostly, water!! ....and I quickly gained back about 7 of those pounds. But, I put my body in heavy Ketosis and kept it there ever since. SO, if your point is to put your body in Ketosis, because you plan to stay Low Carb for the remainder of your weight loss, then you are starting right....depleting your glycogen stores. If your point is to simply break a stall, and you will go back to carbohydrate consumption, then you will most likely put on a few extra pounds as your body will quickly store the carbs for future carb starvation episodes.

    Dangerous.....for three days.....ABSOLUTELY NOT!! Our bodies store enough of what we need to more than handle three days of fasting....so three days of an "egg fast" are not going to hurt you. I ate nothing but macadamia nuts, butter, heavy cream, and cream cheese......for 10 days on a doctors advice and a nutritionists guidance.....the result.....off of all my diabetes injections and down to only half of one oral med. Others would have said to do that for 10 days (90% of my calories from saturated and other fats) would be DANGEROUS.

    In ending....I think whatever makes you happy.....you should do....but be sensible in what you do. Ask yourself what you plan to accomplish and do the research to back up your decision. The Internet is crawling with reliable resources to help you break that stall. Me.....I am in the middle of a heavy stall right now.....but I have lost 40 pounds in under 90 days.....my body needs time to adjust....so I will keep doing what made me lose the first 40 pounds and just wait it out until my body catches up. Also, usually during stalls....you are actually losing inches instead of weight.

    My thoughts.

    Finally, someone who understands the principles I am following. I have been on low'ish carb (30-40g a day) and have stayed in ketosis. But it's been 2 weeks since Ive lost anything, so the egg diet is just a way to get my carbs lower. The "rule" of just eggs makes it simple, which I like. And like you mentioned, it's only 3 days, and there is absolutely nothing dangerous about that...in fact, it might be good for me.

    So all you want is someone to jump up and down and say it's a good idea?

    good_luck_morgan_freeman.gif
  • missliv85
    missliv85 Posts: 23 Member
    I can't get past the 'tablespoon of butter with each egg"!! Blech!! That's a lot of butter...

    You're right, I think so too. Thats why Im replacing most of it with avocado...
  • nutmegoreo
    nutmegoreo Posts: 15,532 Member
    I'm going to start a chocolate diet. Who's in?!

    As long as it's only chocolate eggs I'm in....

    Cadbury cream eggs. My eyes just glazed over and I started drooling.

    OP, this is not a balanced or sustainable plan. Please reconsider. Based on the responses in this thread, I would guess that if you are still going to go ahead with it, it will be a solo flight. Read through the links that have been given and be kind to your body.

    LETS START THE CADBURY EGG DIET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    In for the Cadbury creme egg diet.

    Way ahead of you ladies!
    I've already been issued a patent on this diet, in order to participate you MUST send me a package of those tasty eggs...
    There's always a price to pay for the good stuff!!! LoL

    :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

    You said chocolate egg, not specifically Cadbury. Don't make me come over there.... :grumble: :grumble:

    People trying to steal my chocolate eggs.... :angry: :grumble: :grumble:

    Kidding! I'll send you my left-overs :laugh:

    who has leftovers with chocolate?!

    NO ONE! :laugh:
  • missliv85
    missliv85 Posts: 23 Member
    Well, of course I have to pipe in. First, all she is really doing, is a type of LCHF diet transition. I am on the LCHF (Low Carb High Fat) diet for nearly 90 days. It is the first "diet" that I have ever been able to go so long without "cheating". I say diet and cheating, but really this is a lifestyle I am able to maintain and be happy with the foods I eat.

    That said, yes, the other posters are correct. As soon as you go off your "egg fast", you are going to gain 25% to 50% of the "weight" right back. I did the "fat" fast for the first 10 days of my initiating my transformation and dropped 21 pounds in that 10 days. Mostly, water!! ....and I quickly gained back about 7 of those pounds. But, I put my body in heavy Ketosis and kept it there ever since. SO, if your point is to put your body in Ketosis, because you plan to stay Low Carb for the remainder of your weight loss, then you are starting right....depleting your glycogen stores. If your point is to simply break a stall, and you will go back to carbohydrate consumption, then you will most likely put on a few extra pounds as your body will quickly store the carbs for future carb starvation episodes.

    Dangerous.....for three days.....ABSOLUTELY NOT!! Our bodies store enough of what we need to more than handle three days of fasting....so three days of an "egg fast" are not going to hurt you. I ate nothing but macadamia nuts, butter, heavy cream, and cream cheese......for 10 days on a doctors advice and a nutritionists guidance.....the result.....off of all my diabetes injections and down to only half of one oral med. Others would have said to do that for 10 days (90% of my calories from saturated and other fats) would be DANGEROUS.

    In ending....I think whatever makes you happy.....you should do....but be sensible in what you do. Ask yourself what you plan to accomplish and do the research to back up your decision. The Internet is crawling with reliable resources to help you break that stall. Me.....I am in the middle of a heavy stall right now.....but I have lost 40 pounds in under 90 days.....my body needs time to adjust....so I will keep doing what made me lose the first 40 pounds and just wait it out until my body catches up. Also, usually during stalls....you are actually losing inches instead of weight.

    My thoughts.

    Finally, someone who understands the principles I am following. I have been on low'ish carb (30-40g a day) and have stayed in ketosis. But it's been 2 weeks since Ive lost anything, so the egg diet is just a way to get my carbs lower. The "rule" of just eggs makes it simple, which I like. And like you mentioned, it's only 3 days, and there is absolutely nothing dangerous about that...in fact, it might be good for me.

    So all you want is someone to jump up and down and say it's a good idea?

    good_luck_morgan_freeman.gif

    Wrong. I want someone who has done, or has experience with a LCHF diet, since that is pretty much the idea behind the egg fast.
  • George_Baileys_Ghost
    George_Baileys_Ghost Posts: 1,524 Member
    Can i do something similar with chicken? Thats kinda like eggs, right?