21 day 5000 calorie challenge: debunking the calorie myth?

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  • golden6911
    golden6911 Posts: 50 Member
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    I tend to doubt that calories in/calories out works so simply as advertised because a digestive system is not a calorimeter. I think what you eat IS important and how your body digests it. Calorie values in food are measured by burning food and measuring the energy released, but how closely does that correlate to how your body processes food and releases the energy into your body? Also depending on your gut biome and other factors, you may absorb some foods better than others leading to differing amounts of calories from different foods that have the same measured calorie level.

    Now I think that calories matter, and that it is a good approximation to use, but the differences between biological digestion and scientific measurement may account for some of the differences we are seeing between people in how they gain and lose weight.
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
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    I tend to doubt that calories in/calories out works so simply as advertised because a digestive system is not a calorimeter. I think what you eat IS important and how your body digests it. Calorie values in food are measured by burning food and measuring the energy released, but how closely does that correlate to how your body processes food and releases the energy into your body? Also depending on your gut biome and other factors, you may absorb some foods better than others leading to differing amounts of calories from different foods that have the same measured calorie level.

    Now I think that calories matter, and that it is a good approximation to use, but the differences between biological digestion and scientific measurement may account for some of the differences we are seeing between people in how they gain and lose weight.
    Sure you may not absorb all the calories, but you'll never be able to extract more energy from a food item than it contains. So if your food input is less than your energy output, it'll work.
  • 6ftamazon
    6ftamazon Posts: 340 Member
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    He won't gain that much. He's a trainer, he burns 3000-4000 calories a day in just working lol.
  • Jerrypeoples
    Jerrypeoples Posts: 1,541 Member
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    hmmm eating clean...does that mean if i wash a double whopper with cheese no tomato and fries that it will be better for me?
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
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    I tend to doubt that calories in/calories out works so simply as advertised because a digestive system is not a calorimeter. I think what you eat IS important and how your body digests it. Calorie values in food are measured by burning food and measuring the energy released, but how closely does that correlate to how your body processes food and releases the energy into your body? Also depending on your gut biome and other factors, you may absorb some foods better than others leading to differing amounts of calories from different foods that have the same measured calorie level.

    Now I think that calories matter, and that it is a good approximation to use, but the differences between biological digestion and scientific measurement may account for some of the differences we are seeing between people in how they gain and lose weight.
    They don't burn food anymore.
    Also what ironanimal said.
  • Leanbean65
    Leanbean65 Posts: 176 Member
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    Waiting for the book to come out " the 5000 calorie diet":laugh:
  • eric_sg61
    eric_sg61 Posts: 2,925 Member
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    He won't gain that much. He's a trainer, he burns 3000-4000 calories a day in just working lol.
    The answer to how much he gained was only a few posts above you.
  • laserturkey
    laserturkey Posts: 1,680 Member
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    Maybe next year he will jump 5000 meters every day to try to debunk that gravity myth, once and for all!
  • marykpfist
    marykpfist Posts: 141 Member
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    Should be interesting. Similar things have been done before, for example http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/48/2/240.full.pdf+html

    He's eating low carb too.

    That's why I mentioned Paleo. I think that's what he's doing.

    Nope. But definitely low carb. Only green beans as a vegetable? Seems like a really good way to be unhealthy to me!
  • KseRz
    KseRz Posts: 980 Member
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    How would eating food debunk the calorie myth, and what is the calorie myth again?

    There are a lot of people that do not believe in cals in/out. They feel that it's the quality of the food that matters. So, if you were eating very clean, whatever that means, I guess no junk, no soda, pop tarts, ice cream, cheeseburgers, etc. just clean food. If you eat that way, you can consume 5000 cals a day without gaining.

    There are entire groups so passionate about this, and are successful too. As an example, you don't need to count calories eating Paleo/primal. You just don't. If you stick with it.


    52946809.jpg


    52946769.jpg


    400g of topside beef; 576 calories, Carbohydrate=0g, Fat= 15.6g, Protein=108g

    Also, thats some pretty high quality lean beef hes got there. I wonder if the cows he is eating were training for a Crossfit competition?
  • 6ftamazon
    6ftamazon Posts: 340 Member
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    He won't gain that much. He's a trainer, he burns 3000-4000 calories a day in just working lol.
    The answer to how much he gained was only a few posts above you.

    Yeah just saw that...oops :/



    I want to show my trainer this....he seems to be one of those people that think the number of calories don't matter, and it's specific foods that make a person fat.
  • KseRz
    KseRz Posts: 980 Member
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    Did anyone read into this guys progress at all? Sorry, but I didn't read through the entire thread. If you go directly to day 21 of this guy's challenge, it reads:
    Day 21, and I am 96.3kg before breakfast which is 7kg up from my starting AM weight and 0.8kg up from yesterday morning. Last night I was 96.4kg, making my mean for Day 20, 95.95kg, which is +6.25kg from the start! As it was the last day I also weighed myself this evening at 97.3kg, giving me a mean for day 21 at 96.8kg, which is a massive +7.1kg up from the start and +0.1kg above the calorie formula on a 53,872 k/cal surplus.
    So, the prediction is he would gain 7kg. Guess what. He gained 7 kg. Shocker, I know, right?
    /thread
    ETA: I have issued a similar challenge to calorie deniers before, they never take it. Fact is even the most holiest and cleanest of foods will result in weight gain if eaten over your TDEE.

    The thread seems to be missing some good info. Heres a link to the intro page of what this is all about...

    http://live.smashthefat.com/the-21-day-5000-calorie-challenge/

    IMO his experiment was a complete FAILURE for what he was trying to accomplish. (debunking CICO)

    He says Finally, to work out my potential weight gain I have used the foundation for conventional weight loss which is that 1 pound of fat equals approximately 3,500 calories. Therefore in order to gain 1 pound of fat I must be in a calorie surplus of 3,500 calories. Going by my current weight at the end of the experiment I will be in a calorie surplus of 45,164.1813 making me 5,845.5354654 grams or 5.8 kg (12.7 pounds) heavier than I started!

    He hypothesized that he would gain 5.8kg (12.7lbs) and at the end of the 21 days he gained 7kg (~15lbs)

    Whats really great about this experiment is that he ate the SAME THING every day for 21 days. <--- now thats a challenge in itself. His macro profile and calorie surplus is excellent example for someone who is looking to gain weight and stay lean. The before / after pictures and measurements speak for themselves which supports all the information found in the following video 100%

    Ill just leave this right here

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C80W7vmvZ0
  • Francl27
    Francl27 Posts: 26,372 Member
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    Well people will still come and say that this doesn't mean anything because it was only one person... But very interesting!
  • KseRz
    KseRz Posts: 980 Member
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    He won't gain that much. He's a trainer, he burns 3000-4000 calories a day in just working lol.
    The answer to how much he gained was only a few posts above you.

    Yeah just saw that...oops :/



    I want to show my trainer this....he seems to be one of those people that think the number of calories don't matter, and it's specific foods that make a person fat.

    You will gain mass when in a surplus. The macros are a major factor in determining what is gained. Lean mass or fat.

    A quick glance at Sumo Wrestlers vs Body Builders diets and macro intake are an example of this phenomenon.

    A staple item consumed by bodybuilders are copious amounts of lean chicken breast.
    A staple item consumed by Sumo Wrestlers are copious amounts of beer.

    I wish this guy would do this challenge over again, except change Salmon with pop tarts and Beef with pixie sticks.
  • Thedutchesss
    Thedutchesss Posts: 16
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    How can somebody be completely agnostic about it? I don't believe that. You must have some ideas whether you think it is logic or not. The only thing I can say is that if you eat lean and healthy you must be eating around the clock to even get to 5000 kcal....
  • eric_sg61
    eric_sg61 Posts: 2,925 Member
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    He won't gain that much. He's a trainer, he burns 3000-4000 calories a day in just working lol.
    The answer to how much he gained was only a few posts above you.

    Yeah just saw that...oops :/



    I want to show my trainer this....he seems to be one of those people that think the number of calories don't matter, and it's specific foods that make a person fat.

    You will gain mass when in a surplus. The macros are a major factor in determining what is gained. Lean mass or fat.

    A quick glance at Sumo Wrestlers vs Body Builders diets and macro intake are an example of this phenomenon.

    A staple item consumed by bodybuilders are copious amounts of lean chicken breast.
    A staple item consumed by Sumo Wrestlers are copious amounts of beer.

    I wish this guy would do this challenge over again, except change Salmon with pop tarts and Beef with pixie sticks.
    There was a guy a few years back on one of the BB boards that replaced most of his carbs with "junk" carbs and still entered his contest as lean as previous ones.
  • KseRz
    KseRz Posts: 980 Member
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    He won't gain that much. He's a trainer, he burns 3000-4000 calories a day in just working lol.
    The answer to how much he gained was only a few posts above you.

    Yeah just saw that...oops :/



    I want to show my trainer this....he seems to be one of those people that think the number of calories don't matter, and it's specific foods that make a person fat.

    You will gain mass when in a surplus. The macros are a major factor in determining what is gained. Lean mass or fat.

    A quick glance at Sumo Wrestlers vs Body Builders diets and macro intake are an example of this phenomenon.

    A staple item consumed by bodybuilders are copious amounts of lean chicken breast.
    A staple item consumed by Sumo Wrestlers are copious amounts of beer.

    I wish this guy would do this challenge over again, except change Salmon with pop tarts and Beef with pixie sticks.
    There was a guy a few years back on one of the BB boards that replaced most of his carbs with "junk" carbs and still entered his contest as lean as previous ones.


    He replaced carbs with carbs? :laugh:


    I am proposing he replace protein with carbs :wink:


    ETA: Its a good debate. I remember discussing something similar a few months ago and I challenged someone to eat nothing but reeses pieces peanut butter cups for 30 days and then report back on measurements / weight etc.
  • sassyjae21
    sassyjae21 Posts: 1,217 Member
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    Lol why do people want to make this so much harder than it is? I don't understand. Science. Research. Do those things.
  • jspicer1
    jspicer1 Posts: 3 Member
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    Man, 5000 calories is alot of food!

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