Why Carbs Make Us Fat... ;)

2

Replies

  • d0v3r13
    d0v3r13 Posts: 61 Member
    Realistically, human beings as a species are not carnivorous, and we're not predators. Think of a predator (carnivore)... Cat, wolf, praying mantis, falcon... What do they all have in common? Weaponry, built right in. They are born to kill. Teeth, claws, speed, stealth... We're born to be herbivores, and adventitious or adaptive carnivores when the opportunity or need arises. Therefore -- we're meant to eat carbohydrates predominantly -- fruits, vegetables, etc..

    We were never meant to eat this much meat, and western civilization is paying for it dearly -- more than 40% of western culture dies from heart disease (the #1 killer, above all cancers and every other cause of death) directly related to animal food consumption (animal protein and fat), whereas more than 75% of the global population doesn't even have heart disease (or cancer), and they rely on plants as a primary food source (mostly carbohydrate, but still with fat and protein). Food is medicine, and we are what we eat.

    Not all carbohydrates are created equal.

    Processed, refined carbohydrates with a high glycemic index are definitely detrimental to health and fat-loss. Whole-grains and raw fruits and vegetables (cooked too) are definitely not bad and are extremely, EXTREMELY beneficial to our health.

    (Read "The China Study" by Colin T. Campbell if you're so inclined to inform yourself with exceptionally thorough research spanning decades from around the globe on a massive scale).

    "Carbohydrates" are not the issue, it's the quality of food we eat.


    Heart disease is the leading cause of death in the world. So....there's that.

    Also, if we are not natural predators can you explain to me why vegans have to resort to lab grown supplements to maintain the nutrients their diet lacks from not eating meat or meat products.

    ive been vegan going on 3 years and have not taken any supplements ...i wonder why my blood work always comes back perfect

    hmm i dont know i might just be magic

    Maybe you are, or maybe your food is fortified with the supplements i'm talking about. hmmm, wow. magic.

    http://www.vegetarianvoice.com/vegetarian-nutrition/7/five-nutrients-vegetarian-diets-lack/

    "Many vegetarians lack vitamin B-12 simply because it does not exist naturally in any non-animal forms. Vegetarians should seek out vitamin B-12 fortified foods, such as certain soy milks and cereals to supplement what they lack."
  • eric_sg61
    eric_sg61 Posts: 2,925 Member
    Realistically, human beings as a species are not carnivorous, and we're not predators. Think of a predator (carnivore)... Cat, wolf, praying mantis, falcon... What do they all have in common? Weaponry, built right in. They are born to kill. Teeth, claws, speed, stealth... We're born to be herbivores, and adventitious or adaptive carnivores when the opportunity or need arises. Therefore -- we're meant to eat carbohydrates predominantly -- fruits, vegetables, etc..

    We were never meant to eat this much meat, and western civilization is paying for it dearly -- more than 40% of western culture dies from heart disease (the #1 killer, above all cancers and every other cause of death) directly related to animal food consumption (animal protein and fat), whereas more than 75% of the global population doesn't even have heart disease (or cancer), and they rely on plants as a primary food source (mostly carbohydrate, but still with fat and protein). Food is medicine, and we are what we eat.

    Not all carbohydrates are created equal.

    Processed, refined carbohydrates with a high glycemic index are definitely detrimental to health and fat-loss. Whole-grains and raw fruits and vegetables (cooked too) are definitely not bad and are extremely, EXTREMELY beneficial to our health.

    (Read "The China Study" by Colin T. Campbell if you're so inclined to inform yourself with exceptionally thorough research spanning decades from around the globe on a massive scale).

    "Carbohydrates" are not the issue, it's the quality of food we eat.
    Like it or not humans are the Apex Predators.

    humans and their arrogance

    killing everything and everyone

    nothing to be proud of at all
    Better to thank them... That is why you exist
  • Wetcoaster
    Wetcoaster Posts: 1,788 Member
    Carrot juice is murder......

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUcR-_uqcmk
  • zyxst
    zyxst Posts: 9,149 Member
    Realistically, human beings as a species are not carnivorous, and we're not predators. Think of a predator (carnivore)... Cat, wolf, praying mantis, falcon... What do they all have in common? Weaponry, built right in. They are born to kill. Teeth, claws, speed, stealth... We're born to be herbivores, and adventitious or adaptive carnivores when the opportunity or need arises. Therefore -- we're meant to eat carbohydrates predominantly -- fruits, vegetables, etc..

    We were never meant to eat this much meat, and western civilization is paying for it dearly -- more than 40% of western culture dies from heart disease (the #1 killer, above all cancers and every other cause of death) directly related to animal food consumption (animal protein and fat), whereas more than 75% of the global population doesn't even have heart disease (or cancer), and they rely on plants as a primary food source (mostly carbohydrate, but still with fat and protein). Food is medicine, and we are what we eat.

    Not all carbohydrates are created equal.

    Processed, refined carbohydrates with a high glycemic index are definitely detrimental to health and fat-loss. Whole-grains and raw fruits and vegetables (cooked too) are definitely not bad and are extremely, EXTREMELY beneficial to our health.

    (Read "The China Study" by Colin T. Campbell if you're so inclined to inform yourself with exceptionally thorough research spanning decades from around the globe on a massive scale).

    "Carbohydrates" are not the issue, it's the quality of food we eat.

    Okay, so you're telling me I have heart disease and will die from it because I ate meat?

    Also, humans have built-in weaponry. Have you never been in a physical fight before?
  • FatFreeFrolicking
    FatFreeFrolicking Posts: 4,252 Member
    .
  • LakeCountyDiver
    LakeCountyDiver Posts: 50 Member
    1000g+ carbs a day and I'm near single digit bodyfat, lol

    You will wake up 30yr old and wonder what the hell happened. Enjoy your metabolism now.
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
    Wrong. Eating more calories than you burn makes a person fat.

    Also, if you consider an article from Brad Pilon to be credible, that's just comical. Provide a scientific peer-reviewed study next time.

    And it's obvious you didn't read the article at all. Or it totally went over your head.
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
    Realistically, human beings as a species are not carnivorous, and we're not predators. Think of a predator (carnivore)... Cat, wolf, praying mantis, falcon... What do they all have in common? Weaponry, built right in. They are born to kill. Teeth, claws, speed, stealth... We're born to be herbivores, and adventitious or adaptive carnivores when the opportunity or need arises. Therefore -- we're meant to eat carbohydrates predominantly -- fruits, vegetables, etc..

    We were never meant to eat this much meat, and western civilization is paying for it dearly -- more than 40% of western culture dies from heart disease (the #1 killer, above all cancers and every other cause of death) directly related to animal food consumption (animal protein and fat), whereas more than 75% of the global population doesn't even have heart disease (or cancer), and they rely on plants as a primary food source (mostly carbohydrate, but still with fat and protein). Food is medicine, and we are what we eat.

    Not all carbohydrates are created equal.

    Processed, refined carbohydrates with a high glycemic index are definitely detrimental to health and fat-loss. Whole-grains and raw fruits and vegetables (cooked too) are definitely not bad and are extremely, EXTREMELY beneficial to our health.

    (Read "The China Study" by Colin T. Campbell if you're so inclined to inform yourself with exceptionally thorough research spanning decades from around the globe on a massive scale).

    "Carbohydrates" are not the issue, it's the quality of food we eat.

    The China Study? Seriously?

    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/385/

    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-china-study-revisited/

    z205099164.gif
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    This content has been removed.
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,002 Member
    Wrong. Eating more calories than you burn makes a person fat.

    Also, if you consider an article from Brad Pilon to be credible, that's just comical. Provide a scientific peer-reviewed study next time.

    And it's obvious you didn't read the article at all. Or it totally went over your head.

    Seriously... I thought the article was kinda funny...
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
    Think of a predator (carnivore)... Cat, wolf, praying mantis, falcon... What do they all have in common? Weaponry, built right in.

    I humans, that built in weapon is called "the brain".

    We are predators. And not just any predators - we are the mother of all predators.
  • Kevalicious99
    Kevalicious99 Posts: 1,131 Member
    Giggles ... just giggles.
  • SXMEnrico
    SXMEnrico Posts: 89 Member
    1000g+ carbs a day and I'm near single digit bodyfat, lol

    with that kind of carb intake, I'd have to either be moving or sleeping all day
  • musiche
    musiche Posts: 214 Member
    Realistically, human beings as a species are not carnivorous, and we're not predators. Think of a predator (carnivore)... Cat, wolf, praying mantis, falcon... What do they all have in common? Weaponry, built right in. They are born to kill. Teeth, claws, speed, stealth... We're born to be herbivores, and adventitious or adaptive carnivores when the opportunity or need arises. Therefore -- we're meant to eat carbohydrates predominantly -- fruits, vegetables, etc..

    We were never meant to eat this much meat, and western civilization is paying for it dearly -- more than 40% of western culture dies from heart disease (the #1 killer, above all cancers and every other cause of death) directly related to animal food consumption (animal protein and fat), whereas more than 75% of the global population doesn't even have heart disease (or cancer), and they rely on plants as a primary food source (mostly carbohydrate, but still with fat and protein). Food is medicine, and we are what we eat.

    Not all carbohydrates are created equal.

    Processed, refined carbohydrates with a high glycemic index are definitely detrimental to health and fat-loss. Whole-grains and raw fruits and vegetables (cooked too) are definitely not bad and are extremely, EXTREMELY beneficial to our health.

    (Read "The China Study" by Colin T. Campbell if you're so inclined to inform yourself with exceptionally thorough research spanning decades from around the globe on a massive scale).

    "Carbohydrates" are not the issue, it's the quality of food we eat.
    Like it or not humans are the Apex Predators.

    You totally missed the point. Physically, no, we are not predators at all. Apex predators? No, not at all, unless you put a gun in someone's hand, sure, maybe. The majority of human beings never kill anything themselves, ever, not once. Least of all what they eat. They don't hunt their food, they just eat it -- that doesn't make them predators. And farming animals? That's not predation either. 99.9% of our meat comes from farms - from harmless cows, chickens and pigs locked in little cages that can't move and then get a bolt shot though their heads. That's an apex predator to you? lol.

    A human being in a room with a bear, or a lion, or a wolf would lose the fight, and you damn well know it. We're not apex predators, we're just ****ing evil, lol.
  • musiche
    musiche Posts: 214 Member
    Realistically, human beings as a species are not carnivorous, and we're not predators. Think of a predator (carnivore)... Cat, wolf, praying mantis, falcon... What do they all have in common? Weaponry, built right in. They are born to kill. Teeth, claws, speed, stealth... We're born to be herbivores, and adventitious or adaptive carnivores when the opportunity or need arises. Therefore -- we're meant to eat carbohydrates predominantly -- fruits, vegetables, etc..

    We were never meant to eat this much meat, and western civilization is paying for it dearly -- more than 40% of western culture dies from heart disease (the #1 killer, above all cancers and every other cause of death) directly related to animal food consumption (animal protein and fat), whereas more than 75% of the global population doesn't even have heart disease (or cancer), and they rely on plants as a primary food source (mostly carbohydrate, but still with fat and protein). Food is medicine, and we are what we eat.

    Not all carbohydrates are created equal.

    Processed, refined carbohydrates with a high glycemic index are definitely detrimental to health and fat-loss. Whole-grains and raw fruits and vegetables (cooked too) are definitely not bad and are extremely, EXTREMELY beneficial to our health.

    (Read "The China Study" by Colin T. Campbell if you're so inclined to inform yourself with exceptionally thorough research spanning decades from around the globe on a massive scale).

    "Carbohydrates" are not the issue, it's the quality of food we eat.

    The China Study? Seriously?

    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/385/

    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-china-study-revisited/

    z205099164.gif

    "SCIENCE BASED MEDICINE" and it's ONE PERSON's opinion on The China Study. Are you KIDDING ME??!?!! And I quote:

    "I noticed a number of things in the book that bothered me."

    That is so horrendously oxymoronic... ONE person's opinion is not SCIENCE. There is no science whatsoever in the article you posted. None, nada. It's someone's opinion. Hundreds of thousands of people have been involved in the China Study, including leading scientists sponsored by the government and numerous leading Heart and Cancer organizations for decades. And the China Study was only one example. It's not the only study, nor the only evidence, by far. It's just the biggest one that covers everything and is really a pinnacle of nutritional science.

    Give me a break... The China study has been going for over 30 years, it's one of the most famous studies of human existence, and you're debunking it with some dude's opinion on the matter?

    :/
  • musiche
    musiche Posts: 214 Member
    Realistically, human beings as a species are not carnivorous, and we're not predators. Think of a predator (carnivore)... Cat, wolf, praying mantis, falcon... What do they all have in common? Weaponry, built right in. They are born to kill. Teeth, claws, speed, stealth... We're born to be herbivores, and adventitious or adaptive carnivores when the opportunity or need arises. Therefore -- we're meant to eat carbohydrates predominantly -- fruits, vegetables, etc..

    We were never meant to eat this much meat, and western civilization is paying for it dearly -- more than 40% of western culture dies from heart disease (the #1 killer, above all cancers and every other cause of death) directly related to animal food consumption (animal protein and fat), whereas more than 75% of the global population doesn't even have heart disease (or cancer), and they rely on plants as a primary food source (mostly carbohydrate, but still with fat and protein). Food is medicine, and we are what we eat.

    Not all carbohydrates are created equal.

    Processed, refined carbohydrates with a high glycemic index are definitely detrimental to health and fat-loss. Whole-grains and raw fruits and vegetables (cooked too) are definitely not bad and are extremely, EXTREMELY beneficial to our health.

    (Read "The China Study" by Colin T. Campbell if you're so inclined to inform yourself with exceptionally thorough research spanning decades from around the globe on a massive scale).

    "Carbohydrates" are not the issue, it's the quality of food we eat.

    Okay, so you're telling me I have heart disease and will die from it because I ate meat?

    Also, humans have built-in weaponry. Have you never been in a physical fight before?

    Honestly, and I don't mean to be cruel, but you probably do have some degree of heart disease. The majority of people living in the western world DO have the beginnings of heart disease in their adolescence. Heart disease is a disease that builds over years and years and accumulates. We can't really debate this, because the information just isn't there. But if you really want to know, go to the doctor and get your cholesterol and blood pressure checked. There's a reason heart disease is the #1 killer (above everything else, including cancer), and it's because most of us have it.

    As for built-in weaponry... Yeah, not so much. We don't stand a chance against an actual predator, is my point. We can fight each other sure, but really, who is going to go up to a lion and punch it to death before it kills you? Or a bear, a wolf, a cat -- actual predators. That's the point. You missed it. We can't hunt without tools, because we don't have our own. < - the point.
  • eric_sg61
    eric_sg61 Posts: 2,925 Member
    Realistically, human beings as a species are not carnivorous, and we're not predators. Think of a predator (carnivore)... Cat, wolf, praying mantis, falcon... What do they all have in common? Weaponry, built right in. They are born to kill. Teeth, claws, speed, stealth... We're born to be herbivores, and adventitious or adaptive carnivores when the opportunity or need arises. Therefore -- we're meant to eat carbohydrates predominantly -- fruits, vegetables, etc..

    We were never meant to eat this much meat, and western civilization is paying for it dearly -- more than 40% of western culture dies from heart disease (the #1 killer, above all cancers and every other cause of death) directly related to animal food consumption (animal protein and fat), whereas more than 75% of the global population doesn't even have heart disease (or cancer), and they rely on plants as a primary food source (mostly carbohydrate, but still with fat and protein). Food is medicine, and we are what we eat.

    Not all carbohydrates are created equal.

    Processed, refined carbohydrates with a high glycemic index are definitely detrimental to health and fat-loss. Whole-grains and raw fruits and vegetables (cooked too) are definitely not bad and are extremely, EXTREMELY beneficial to our health.

    (Read "The China Study" by Colin T. Campbell if you're so inclined to inform yourself with exceptionally thorough research spanning decades from around the globe on a massive scale).

    "Carbohydrates" are not the issue, it's the quality of food we eat.
    Like it or not humans are the Apex Predators.

    You totally missed the point. Physically, no, we are not predators at all. Apex predators? No, not at all, unless you put a gun in someone's hand, sure, maybe. The majority of human beings never kill anything themselves, ever, not once. Least of all what they eat. They don't hunt their food, they just eat it -- that doesn't make them predators. And farming animals? That's not predation either. 99.9% of our meat comes from farms - from harmless cows, chickens and pigs locked in little cages that can't move and then get a bolt shot though their heads. That's an apex predator to you? lol.

    A human being in a room with a bear, or a lion, or a wolf would lose the fight, and you damn well know it. We're not apex predators, we're just ****ing evil, lol.
    How did we survive millions of years against these predators? You live in a fantasy world.
  • mactaffy84
    mactaffy84 Posts: 398 Member
    In because, well, it is Sunday morning and I can't wait to see how it all ends....
  • mike_ny
    mike_ny Posts: 351 Member
    Following this premise of carbs making you eat too much...

    Besides being delicious, the other big issue with carbs is that they simply don't fill you up and even when they do, it's not for long. They do also give an energy burst, but that also fades rather quickly.

    X calories of protein or fat will keep you full much longer than x calories of any carb that isn't also loaded with protein or fat. Protein and fat also provide sustained energy instead of the characteristic carb energy peak and crash.

    A high carb diet keeps me in a state of being hungry all the time, so the only two choices are feeling hungry or overeating. Even complex carbs, healthy as they are, also don't keep me satisfied for long. The high fat (adequate protein & low carb) diet I've been on for well over a year allows me to stay in a calorie deficit and not have to be forced into making that choice all the time. For the record, I still eat lots of vegetables, but not much in the way of sugar or grains. I'm not saying I don't ever feel hungry at times between feedings, but they are far fewer and much easier to quell than my experiences with a medium to higher carb diet. Your mileage may vary, but if I stayed on medium to high carb diet, I would have stayed at or gained weight and probably just given up. A high fat diet helped me steadily lose fat and build muscle, that I am convicted would have never happened without cutting way back on carbs. Every diet I ever tried over the many years before turning to high fat/low carb failed and I always gained more weight over time. When something continually doesn't work, you try something else, and this works both in dropping fat and keeping it from coming back.

    If you love carbs and insist in eating lots of them, good luck to you. Some will succeed, especially those that exercise heavily, but most will be on yo-yo diets for the rest of their lives or just give up and accept being fat as inevitable.
  • earlnabby
    earlnabby Posts: 8,171 Member
    Honestly, and I don't mean to be cruel, but you probably do have some degree of heart disease. The majority of people living in the western world DO have the beginnings of heart disease in their adolescence. Heart disease is a disease that builds over years and years and accumulates. We can't really debate this, because the information just isn't there. But if you really want to know, go to the doctor and get your cholesterol and blood pressure checked. There's a reason heart disease is the #1 killer (above everything else, including cancer), and it's because most of us have it.

    Aw, gee whiz. Here I thought my doctor was right that I do not have heart disease because, even at 300 lb, my total cholesterol was 158, my BP was 116/71, and an echocardiogram showed perfect heart function. I am going to have to tell her and the cardiologist that they are wrong because a random person on the internet told me I did have heart disease because everyone who eats meat does.
  • myfitnesspale3
    myfitnesspale3 Posts: 276 Member
    Realistically, human beings as a species are not carnivorous, and we're not predators. Think of a predator (carnivore)... Cat, wolf, praying mantis, falcon... What do they all have in common? Weaponry, built right in. They are born to kill. Teeth, claws, speed, stealth... We're born to be herbivores, and adventitious or adaptive carnivores when the opportunity or need arises. Therefore -- we're meant to eat carbohydrates predominantly -- fruits, vegetables, etc..

    "Carbohydrates" are not the issue, it's the quality of food we eat.

    Respectfully, naaah. Eyes facing front= predator. Opposable thumb= (tool-using) predator. Omnivorous palate and digestive system= predator. Big-*kitten*-brain(built-in weapon)= predator. Canine teeth, yeah. We're not tree-hugging dirt-munching druids by intention. Only when forced by scarcity, or more recently by extreme specialization when some lucky few are not forced to be involved with food production.

    What's the issue again? Oh yeah, carbs, but Quality! Laugh. Like its protein, fat, fiber and carbohydrate content - totally agree!
  • velikiivo
    velikiivo Posts: 3
    I love carbs, but too many will make you look like me.
  • Wetcoaster
    Wetcoaster Posts: 1,788 Member
    Realistically, human beings as a species are not carnivorous, and we're not predators. Think of a predator (carnivore)... Cat, wolf, praying mantis, falcon... What do they all have in common? Weaponry, built right in. They are born to kill. Teeth, claws, speed, stealth... We're born to be herbivores, and adventitious or adaptive carnivores when the opportunity or need arises. Therefore -- we're meant to eat carbohydrates predominantly -- fruits, vegetables, etc..

    We were never meant to eat this much meat, and western civilization is paying for it dearly -- more than 40% of western culture dies from heart disease (the #1 killer, above all cancers and every other cause of death) directly related to animal food consumption (animal protein and fat), whereas more than 75% of the global population doesn't even have heart disease (or cancer), and they rely on plants as a primary food source (mostly carbohydrate, but still with fat and protein). Food is medicine, and we are what we eat.

    Not all carbohydrates are created equal.

    Processed, refined carbohydrates with a high glycemic index are definitely detrimental to health and fat-loss. Whole-grains and raw fruits and vegetables (cooked too) are definitely not bad and are extremely, EXTREMELY beneficial to our health.

    (Read "The China Study" by Colin T. Campbell if you're so inclined to inform yourself with exceptionally thorough research spanning decades from around the globe on a massive scale).

    "Carbohydrates" are not the issue, it's the quality of food we eat.

    The China Study? Seriously?

    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/385/

    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-china-study-revisited/

    z205099164.gif

    "SCIENCE BASED MEDICINE" and it's ONE PERSON's opinion on The China Study. Are you KIDDING ME??!?!! And I quote:

    "I noticed a number of things in the book that bothered me."

    That is so horrendously oxymoronic... ONE person's opinion is not SCIENCE. There is no science whatsoever in the article you posted. None, nada. It's someone's opinion. Hundreds of thousands of people have been involved in the China Study, including leading scientists sponsored by the government and numerous leading Heart and Cancer organizations for decades. And the China Study was only one example. It's not the only study, nor the only evidence, by far. It's just the biggest one that covers everything and is really a pinnacle of nutritional science.

    Give me a break... The China study has been going for over 30 years, it's one of the most famous studies of human existence, and you're debunking it with some dude's opinion on the matter?

    :/

    It has been debunked over and over and over. Believe what you wish..

    As James Randi said.....

    "There exists in society a very special class of persons that I have always referred to as the Believers. These are folks who have chosen to accept a certain religion, philosophy, theory, idea or notion and cling to that belief regardless of any evidence that might, for anyone else, bring it into doubt. They are the ones who encourage and support the fanatics and the frauds of any given age. No amount of evidence, no matter how strong, will bring them any enlightenment. They are the sheep who beg to be fleeced and butchered, and who will battle fiercely to preserve their right to be victimized"
  • Unknown
    Unknown
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  • datboyrobd
    datboyrobd Posts: 4
    Look at alot of Asian cultures who's diet is centered around carbs. They have much healthier bodyweights compared to Americans for example. Perhaps the problem is being unactive and consuming large amounts of fats to go with your carbs...
  • Wetcoaster
    Wetcoaster Posts: 1,788 Member
    Lyle McDonald on the study......

    http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=5816
  • musiche
    musiche Posts: 214 Member
    [/quote]

    It has been debunked over and over and over. Believe what you wish..

    As James Randi said.....

    "There exists in society a very special class of persons that I have always referred to as the Believers. These are folks who have chosen to accept a certain religion, philosophy, theory, idea or notion and cling to that belief regardless of any evidence that might, for anyone else, bring it into doubt. They are the ones who encourage and support the fanatics and the frauds of any given age. No amount of evidence, no matter how strong, will bring them any enlightenment. They are the sheep who beg to be fleeced and butchered, and who will battle fiercely to preserve their right to be victimized"
    [/quote]

    Very fitting quote, I must admit. Perhaps you should heed that wisdom yourself. An ignorant victim is the worst kind -- the sheep who beg to be butchered.

    And again, you give me a link to someone's OPINION on the matter. A forum post nonetheless. Are you googling this stuff as you go? I can hardly give that credit up against a 30 year long study that keeps getting funded by the most prestigious health organizations, that's tested and re-tested tens of thousands of people, that's proven time and time again the validity of it's findings. And for the record, Colin T. Campbell, one of the originators of the study -- he grew up on a dairy/cattle farm and ate meat most of his life. He started his career studying animal protein in FAVOUR of it, on behalf of the government to try and solve the world hunger crisis. He never went looking for the information he found, it found him in the most glaringly obvious way. There is no bias in this study, it's raw data, by the millions. Undeniable proof in the pudding.

    Alas, I'll quote you as well -- believe what you wish. The only way to know for sure, is to live the lifestyle and see what comes. If either of us decides to ever compare our medical records, we'll know who's got the upper hand. But really, we're not going to do that. So... enjoy your life however you see fit, or unfit, healthy or otherwise. Just be happy!
  • musiche
    musiche Posts: 214 Member
    Realistically, human beings as a species are not carnivorous, and we're not predators. Think of a predator (carnivore)... Cat, wolf, praying mantis, falcon... What do they all have in common? Weaponry, built right in. They are born to kill. Teeth, claws, speed, stealth... We're born to be herbivores, and adventitious or adaptive carnivores when the opportunity or need arises. Therefore -- we're meant to eat carbohydrates predominantly -- fruits, vegetables, etc..

    "Carbohydrates" are not the issue, it's the quality of food we eat.

    Respectfully, naaah. Eyes facing front= predator. Opposable thumb= (tool-using) predator. Omnivorous palate and digestive system= predator. Big-*kitten*-brain(built-in weapon)= predator. Canine teeth, yeah. We're not tree-hugging dirt-munching druids by intention. Only when forced by scarcity, or more recently by extreme specialization when some lucky few are not forced to be involved with food production.

    What's the issue again? Oh yeah, carbs, but Quality! Laugh. Like its protein, fat, fiber and carbohydrate content - totally agree!

    Respectfully, I disagree with every point you tried to make.

    Sloths have eyes on the front of their faces, lol. Quite the predator there....

    Opposable thumbs -- yes, we use tools, that doesn't make us predators. That makes us ingenious and adaptive. What I said previously, is that BY NATURE'S DESIGN, we are not predators. Naturally, we are not. Not yet anyway. Evolution doesn't happen as quickly as we've changed, and our physiology is still geared to that of predominant herbivores.

    Omnivorous palate? That's a subjective thing, and I disagree, considering the MAJORITY of the global population are a plant-based culture, excluding western civilization. Our digestive system is more suited to a plant-based diet as well, scientifically and healthfully speaking.

    Canine teeth -- no, we don't have a K9 set of teeth. Think of a dog's teeth, now think of ours. Think of a cow's teeth, not think of ours. We have 4 teeth that resemble a dog's (and some people don't), and the rest (the majority) are like a cow - molars for grinding, and flat front teeth to take bites out of our food -- not tackle a cow and rip it's jugular out. Our teeth are not suitable for hunting.

    And a big brain is not a sign of a predator either.

    And we're not lucky to be so far removed from our food either. It's a tragedy really. Most of us have no idea what we're eating, what's in it, what it does to us... Food industry wants to make money, not healthy people. Ignorance is bliss. That being said, if everyone had to kill the cow to eat the hamburger -- we'd have a lot more plant matter in our diet. A lot.
  • Wetcoaster
    Wetcoaster Posts: 1,788 Member
    Can you respond to Lyle Mcdonalds criticisms? Or do you just keep harping on the China Study?

    Please enlighten me where Lyle is wrong?




    PS....

    I am enjoying my life....fit and healthy...all blood work is great at 56 years old.

    Excuse me while I marinate some steak to bbq tonight.
  • musiche
    musiche Posts: 214 Member
    Honestly, and I don't mean to be cruel, but you probably do have some degree of heart disease. The majority of people living in the western world DO have the beginnings of heart disease in their adolescence. Heart disease is a disease that builds over years and years and accumulates. We can't really debate this, because the information just isn't there. But if you really want to know, go to the doctor and get your cholesterol and blood pressure checked. There's a reason heart disease is the #1 killer (above everything else, including cancer), and it's because most of us have it.

    Aw, gee whiz. Here I thought my doctor was right that I do not have heart disease because, even at 300 lb, my total cholesterol was 158, my BP was 116/71, and an echocardiogram showed perfect heart function. I am going to have to tell her and the cardiologist that they are wrong because a random person on the internet told me I did have heart disease because everyone who eats meat does.

    158 is the high end for healthy cholesterol my friend. Vegans and those eating a plant-based diet (Asia, Africa, etc..) have cholesterol levels around 70 or 80 routinely, half of what yours is. They also have next to no heart disease. Western standards accept that as 'normal' because the national average is around that, but people with a cholesterol level that high are still at risk for a heart attack, and they do have some degree of heart disease. Heart disease is the #1 killer of Americans -- most Americans have some degree of heart disease. Your heart rate shouldn't be over 120/80, so you are at the high end of that as well, which would suggest plaque buildup in some areas. Which is seen in most Americans, so yes, you are "normal".

    The fact that you had to have an echocardiogram suggests you're having issues that needed to be looked at, seeing as no one has elective echocardiograms. And judging by your sarcasm, you're offended, and that's fine. It is what it is, and if you'd rather get defensive that give your health a second look, that's your prerogative. But your health is your own, and you should decide for yourself, not what someone one the internet, or your cardiologist says. You're seeing a cardiologist because you think something's wrong, and if they're telling you you're in 'perfect health', if I were you, I'd search further. Go with your gut.

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