Quantity vs. quality of calories consumed

I don't look at the nutrient density of my food as a factor in my weight loss. I actually gained weight for a couple of months by not being motivated and disciplined all while eating clean, nutrient dense food, just waaaay too much of it. So for weight loss sake, yes calories burned v calories in is a tried and true method of losing weight that has worked for lots of people.

I eat nutrient dense food so my body build my cells with the appropriate parts to make me as happy and well adjusted as possible. Since making this switch I am not as irritable, I can speak up for myself without getting emotional, I heal from injuries much faster. And I just like not putting chemicals, preservatives and fake things in my body. Yes, I realize I am still bombarded by these things when I walk outside, but now I am giving my body a fighting chance to fight the side effects of those toxins.

This is why I am so saddened when I see someone searching for a healthy alternative recipe to an old standard junk food and many replies are, just eat the junk food. No, making it ourselves, with real, whole food is so much better for our bodies, The more we step away from the processed "food" that we are brainwashed to believe is good when it's just laden with sugar, the more we will realize it's ok to step away and be free of the addiction.

This may sound very strange and some people will probably think I'm crazy, yet I really believe in all this and I know it's difficult. To me, that is why its' important to have homemade versions of our favorite junk foods to get us through those really stressful times in life without resorting to ordering a pizza. I WANT to fuel my body with real food and know, to the best of my ability and I am learning more everyday, that I am putting good quality nutrients in as fuel for my body to run at optimal capacity.

i think the original point is that american (and australian btw) generic supermarket foods are way more processed than european equivalent. example, chicken breast, standard chicken breast in oz or usa is twice as large as in europe, why? cos it pumped full of hormones and water when theres no need for it to be.
breads and fruit n veg etc is grown to last way longer on the shelves and so is 'processed' more in order to do so
its not so much about the big macs etc, u get them in every country but the standard foods u buy in supermarkets are way different in quality in the different countries

Americans, compared to other countries, tend to be a lot more sedentary. I think that has way more to do with it than hormones and processed foods.

Yup. Also, I buy my chicken from an organic local farm (personal ethical reasons, not because I think the grocery chicken is bad for me), and the breasts do not seem different in size than I recall. The pork is different--it has more fat, because American factory farmed pork is bred to be leaner, especially compared to heritage breeds. So I seriously doubt supermarket meat is making us fat.

Now a standard size breast is much more than I think of as one serving size (I mostly eat bone in breasts) so if you assume one breast should equal 100 g you might be eating more than you think, but that's not really America's fault.

I don't have enough calories to waste on high calorie foods that don't fill me up.

Another discussion involving a lot of anecdotal evidence about averages.

The average world adult has one testicle and one mammary gland (to a binary digit)
In the UK the average family has 2.2 children.

Averages are pointless out of context. Statistics, damned statistics and lies. Obesity, diabetes et al is a problem, preaching to the choir on mfp is not going to make one iota of a difference. Go preach to the unconverted if it makes you feel better.

However, my weightloss and non preaching has caused 20 people in surrounding departments at work to try mfp. If half of those have success and half of those with success encourage someone else, in another 6 months that will 100 people that have tried to do something different, a 50 times multiplier of people being accountable for their health (assuming the 50% unsuccessful gave up - too hard, they only kind of wanted it). Go and lead by example, no preaching required.

And I am the worst hypocrite by then preaching here. Good luck with whatever your life goals are.

i think the original point is that american (and australian btw) generic supermarket foods are way more processed than european equivalent. example, chicken breast, standard chicken breast in oz or usa is twice as large as in europe, why? cos it pumped full of hormones and water when theres no need for it to be.
breads and fruit n veg etc is grown to last way longer on the shelves and so is 'processed' more in order to do so
its not so much about the big macs etc, u get them in every country but the standard foods u buy in supermarkets are way different in quality in the different countries

Americans, compared to other countries, tend to be a lot more sedentary. I think that has way more to do with it than hormones and processed foods.

Yup. Also, I buy my chicken from an organic local farm (personal ethical reasons, not because I think the grocery chicken is bad for me), and the breasts do not seem different in size than I recall. The pork is different--it has more fat, because American factory farmed pork is bred to be leaner, especially compared to heritage breeds. So I seriously doubt supermarket meat is making us fat.

Now a standard size breast is much more than I think of as one serving size (I mostly eat bone in breasts) so if you assume one breast should equal 100 g you might be eating more than you think, but that's not really America's fault.

thats my point tho, supermarkets make the farmers change the way things are normally ie making more lean, making tomatos redder etc so they appeal more to the public. theres a huge difference between supermarket n farm bought produce

From what I've seen -
If you're overweight (overfat), losing weight will likely have more of a positive affect than eating 'healthy' but maintaining weight.

If you're generally fit and healthy, the type of carbs and fat (apart from large amounts of hydrogenated probably) doesn't really matter.
You need to get an appropriate amount and range of micronutrients.

One of the ways people may manage this is to eat 'clean', 'don't eat junk' and so on.
Of course, they may well be not fulfilling their body's needs as well as the person who eats lots of 'junk' but also makes sure they have a wide range of micronutrients if they're doing it purely by guesswork - eating the same salad and selection of vegetables day in, day out may well be more limited than the diet that consists of eating whatever the individual wants, regardless of how someone on the internet defines their food.

I would like to learn more about this area so I can make better informed choices - unfortunately it seems that 97% of the information out there is unscientific BS .

As a postscript, I will add that of course when on a calorie restricted diet it tends to be harder to get enough micronutrients, so may make sense to then try and eat more micronutrient dense food - but still, if you're eating the same micronutrient dense food all the time and thinking it's "healthy" you're probably doing it wrong.

Just for the record:

A Big Mac meal with a strawberry shake has 1575 calories.

Who is recommending this as a good way to lose weight on MFP?

For that amount of calories I can have:

Protein shake for breakfast with US protein added almond milk and 2T flax seed meal

Processed protein powder plus processed almond milk plus (I assume) processed flax seed. Nothing wrong with that--I had a protein shake this morning (with milk) before my run and then blueberries, broccoli, and cauliflower plus some yogurt (flavored, since it was all I had on hand, but quite likely from Europe!) after, and I too think that protein powder is one of those processed items that help me meet my nutrition goals, but it's why this focus on processed=bad is so misplaced.

As for the calories and the rest, looks good. Do you really think that makes you unique and that the rest of us are eating twinkies or McDonalds and just not eating anything else? My view is that if people start figuring out how to meet their calories within their own preferences--especially if they do think in terms of meeting nutrition needs, which I see recommended commonly here--they naturally start gravitating toward lots of whole foods, vegetables, and so on, because that's a much easier way to decrease calories and be satisfied. You don't need to insist that people cut out "processed" stuff, especially since there seems to be no rational agreed-upon definition of processed and, again, processed stuff may help meet nutritional needs.

But if you feel super good thinking that everyone else here (and all Americans) eat fast food 24/7, go for it.

I'm sure my protein powder is processed too, as is almond milk and flax seed meal, but all are healthy and all natural. But all natural protein powder and a pop tart are both processed foods by definition, yet one is far more processed, and one uses natural ingredients.

I don't think for a long shot most of the people on here are eating mostly junk, I just think some are missing the point. There is a difference between weight loss and eating for overall health and nutritional value. It is possible to eat with a Focus on both, but If that's not your goal or its not important to you, then by all means eat a Big Mac if it fits your caloric requirements.

I'll get off my soap box now.

Edit- and Michael pollan is the man.

And this is my issue with you and others like you.

The bold says that if you eat a Big Mac then you're not eating for health, that your health is not important to you. That is utter nonsense. A balanced healthy diet can include Big Macs, fries and anything else. It's all about balance. If it fits your calories and macro requirements then you can still be healthy and foucused on nutrition.

I don't look at the nutrient density of my food as a factor in my weight loss. I actually gained weight for a couple of months by not being motivated and disciplined all while eating clean, nutrient dense food, just waaaay too much of it. So for weight loss sake, yes calories burned v calories in is a tried and true method of losing weight that has worked for lots of people.

I eat nutrient dense food so my body build my cells with the appropriate parts to make me as happy and well adjusted as possible. Since making this switch I am not as irritable, I can speak up for myself without getting emotional, I heal from injuries much faster. And I just like not putting chemicals, preservatives and fake things in my body. Yes, I realize I am still bombarded by these things when I walk outside, but now I am giving my body a fighting chance to fight the side effects of those toxins.

This is why I am so saddened when I see someone searching for a healthy alternative recipe to an old standard junk food and many replies are, just eat the junk food. No, making it ourselves, with real, whole food is so much better for our bodies, The more we step away from the processed "food" that we are brainwashed to believe is good when it's just laden with sugar, the more we will realize it's ok to step away and be free of the addiction.

This may sound very strange and some people will probably think I'm crazy, yet I really believe in all this and I know it's difficult. To me, that is why its' important to have homemade versions of our favorite junk foods to get us through those really stressful times in life without resorting to ordering a pizza. I WANT to fuel my body with real food and know, to the best of my ability and I am learning more everyday, that I am putting good quality nutrients in as fuel for my body to run at optimal capacity.

So we should avoid processed food because they're "laden with sugar"? What's wrong with sugar? Also, I'm a little saddened that you think non-homemade pizzas aren't "real food."

Yes you also think Big Macs and soda with fake sugar is healthy though.

I'm waiting on you to tell me what makes those things "unhealthy." What specifically about a Big Mac or a diet soda is directly harmful to your long term health? And don't you dare say aspartame.

i think the original point is that american (and australian btw) generic supermarket foods are way more processed than european equivalent. example, chicken breast, standard chicken breast in oz or usa is twice as large as in europe, why? cos it pumped full of hormones and water when theres no need for it to be.
breads and fruit n veg etc is grown to last way longer on the shelves and so is 'processed' more in order to do so
its not so much about the big macs etc, u get them in every country but the standard foods u buy in supermarkets are way different in quality in the different countries

I thought that was the original point. The quality of food in the generic supermarkets in North America is not as high as European countries because there are stricter rules as to what can and cannot be in the food. The European Trade Union won't allow the sale of GMO foods and foods containing certain food additives. Some companies like Kraft have a North American version and a European version of the same product for this very reason. A glaring example is beer in the UK brewed under the German purity laws so the ingredients are water, barley, and hops as opposed to mainstream North American beers that can have HFCS, caramel colour, sulphites and salt added. North Americans and more so Americans over Canadians are too widely accepting of artificial food additives, preservatives and GMO. From experience of being Canadian citizens who live part of the year in the US and Caribbean, we find the quality of the food in the US inferior in quality but not lacking in quantity. The food standards are certainly less stringent in the US!

Just for the record:

A Big Mac meal with a strawberry shake has 1575 calories.

Who is recommending this as a good way to lose weight on MFP?

For that amount of calories I can have:

Protein shake for breakfast with US protein added almond milk and 2T flax seed meal

Processed protein powder plus processed almond milk plus (I assume) processed flax seed. Nothing wrong with that--I had a protein shake this morning (with milk) before my run and then blueberries, broccoli, and cauliflower plus some yogurt (flavored, since it was all I had on hand, but quite likely from Europe!) after, and I too think that protein powder is one of those processed items that help me meet my nutrition goals, but it's why this focus on processed=bad is so misplaced.

As for the calories and the rest, looks good. Do you really think that makes you unique and that the rest of us are eating twinkies or McDonalds and just not eating anything else? My view is that if people start figuring out how to meet their calories within their own preferences--especially if they do think in terms of meeting nutrition needs, which I see recommended commonly here--they naturally start gravitating toward lots of whole foods, vegetables, and so on, because that's a much easier way to decrease calories and be satisfied. You don't need to insist that people cut out "processed" stuff, especially since there seems to be no rational agreed-upon definition of processed and, again, processed stuff may help meet nutritional needs.

But if you feel super good thinking that everyone else here (and all Americans) eat fast food 24/7, go for it.

I'm sure my protein powder is processed too, as is almond milk and flax seed meal, but all are healthy and all natural. But all natural protein powder and a pop tart are both processed foods by definition, yet one is far more processed, and one uses natural ingredients.

I don't think for a long shot most of the people on here are eating mostly junk, I just think some are missing the point. There is a difference between weight loss and eating for overall health and nutritional value. It is possible to eat with a Focus on both, but If that's not your goal or its not important to you, then by all means eat a Big Mac if it fits your caloric requirements.

I'll get off my soap box now.

Edit- and Michael pollan is the man.

And this is my issue with you and others like you.

The bold says that if you eat a Big Mac then you're not eating for health, that your health is not important to you. That is utter nonsense. A balanced healthy diet can include Big Macs, fries and anything else. It's all about balance. If it fits your calories and macro requirements then you can still be healthy and foucused on nutrition.

Big Macs (along with 90% of the food at mcdonalds) is filled with processed garbage and trans fats. Its not good for you. Period. Yes, you can eat one and still be a healthy person overall. But if that style of eating is a daily part of your food choices, you are not making healthy long term decisions.

The whole point I was trying to make Is that eating to lose weight and eating healthy food to promote long term health and well being aren't always the same. Not that you are an evil person if you have a Big Mac once every couple of months.

Try watching the documentary "food inc." to become better acquainted with how and what processed food is made up of, because clearly some folks simply do not understand the definition.

What is the definition?

To me, a processed food is any food that is made using unnatural or genetically modified ingredients.

Here is a good link with a definition and a brief explanation:
http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/processed-food-definition-2074.html

Please define unnatural.

Just for the record:

A Big Mac meal with a strawberry shake has 1575 calories.

Who is recommending this as a good way to lose weight on MFP?

For that amount of calories I can have:

Protein shake for breakfast with US protein added almond milk and 2T flax seed meal

Processed protein powder plus processed almond milk plus (I assume) processed flax seed. Nothing wrong with that--I had a protein shake this morning (with milk) before my run and then blueberries, broccoli, and cauliflower plus some yogurt (flavored, since it was all I had on hand, but quite likely from Europe!) after, and I too think that protein powder is one of those processed items that help me meet my nutrition goals, but it's why this focus on processed=bad is so misplaced.

As for the calories and the rest, looks good. Do you really think that makes you unique and that the rest of us are eating twinkies or McDonalds and just not eating anything else? My view is that if people start figuring out how to meet their calories within their own preferences--especially if they do think in terms of meeting nutrition needs, which I see recommended commonly here--they naturally start gravitating toward lots of whole foods, vegetables, and so on, because that's a much easier way to decrease calories and be satisfied. You don't need to insist that people cut out "processed" stuff, especially since there seems to be no rational agreed-upon definition of processed and, again, processed stuff may help meet nutritional needs.

But if you feel super good thinking that everyone else here (and all Americans) eat fast food 24/7, go for it.

I'm sure my protein powder is processed too, as is almond milk and flax seed meal, but all are healthy and all natural. But all natural protein powder and a pop tart are both processed foods by definition, yet one is far more processed, and one uses natural ingredients.

I don't think for a long shot most of the people on here are eating mostly junk, I just think some are missing the point. There is a difference between weight loss and eating for overall health and nutritional value. It is possible to eat with a Focus on both, but If that's not your goal or its not important to you, then by all means eat a Big Mac if it fits your caloric requirements.

I'll get off my soap box now.

Edit- and Michael pollan is the man.

And this is my issue with you and others like you.

The bold says that if you eat a Big Mac then you're not eating for health, that your health is not important to you. That is utter nonsense. A balanced healthy diet can include Big Macs, fries and anything else. It's all about balance. If it fits your calories and macro requirements then you can still be healthy and foucused on nutrition.

Big Macs (along with 90% of the food at mcdonalds) is filled with processed garbage and trans fats. Its not good for you. Period. Yes, you can eat one and still be a healthy person overall. But if that style of eating is a daily part of your food choices, you are not making healthy long term decisions.

The whole point I was trying to make Is that eating to lose weight and eating healthy food to promote long term health and well being aren't always the same. Not that you are an evil person if you have a Big Mac once every couple of months.

Try watching the documentary "food inc." to become better acquainted with how and what processed food is made up of, because clearly some folks simply do not understand the definition.

What is the definition?

To me, a processed food is any food that is made using unnatural or genetically modified ingredients.

Here is a good link with a definition and a brief explanation:
http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/processed-food-definition-2074.html

Well you're screwed then. Better throw out your protein powder, almond milk and pasta as per your "better" menu on the first page as the are all highly processed ingredients.

Are you the pot or kettle today?

I don't look at the nutrient density of my food as a factor in my weight loss. I actually gained weight for a couple of months by not being motivated and disciplined all while eating clean, nutrient dense food, just waaaay too much of it. So for weight loss sake, yes calories burned v calories in is a tried and true method of losing weight that has worked for lots of people.

I eat nutrient dense food so my body build my cells with the appropriate parts to make me as happy and well adjusted as possible. Since making this switch I am not as irritable, I can speak up for myself without getting emotional, I heal from injuries much faster. And I just like not putting chemicals, preservatives and fake things in my body. Yes, I realize I am still bombarded by these things when I walk outside, but now I am giving my body a fighting chance to fight the side effects of those toxins.

This is why I am so saddened when I see someone searching for a healthy alternative recipe to an old standard junk food and many replies are, just eat the junk food. No, making it ourselves, with real, whole food is so much better for our bodies, The more we step away from the processed "food" that we are brainwashed to believe is good when it's just laden with sugar, the more we will realize it's ok to step away and be free of the addiction.

This may sound very strange and some people will probably think I'm crazy, yet I really believe in all this and I know it's difficult. To me, that is why its' important to have homemade versions of our favorite junk foods to get us through those really stressful times in life without resorting to ordering a pizza. I WANT to fuel my body with real food and know, to the best of my ability and I am learning more everyday, that I am putting good quality nutrients in as fuel for my body to run at optimal capacity.

So we should avoid processed food because they're "laden with sugar"? What's wrong with sugar? Also, I'm a little saddened that you think non-homemade pizzas aren't "real food."

Yes you also think Big Macs and soda with fake sugar is healthy though.

Well that is silly - NO food is healthy in isolation.
Nobody is suggesting eat Big Macs and diet soda ONLY. Are they?

Of course that wouldn't be healthy.
On the other hand it would be more healthy ( as in provide more varied nutrients) than eating ONLY organic broccoli - but silly comparison, because nobody does that either.

Big Macs, diet soda and organic broccoli can all be part of an overall healthy diet - along with other foods (or neither of those foods) and in sensible portion sizes.

Just for the record:

A Big Mac meal with a strawberry shake has 1575 calories.

Who is recommending this as a good way to lose weight on MFP?

For that amount of calories I can have:

Protein shake for breakfast with US protein added almond milk and 2T flax seed meal

Processed protein powder plus processed almond milk plus (I assume) processed flax seed. Nothing wrong with that--I had a protein shake this morning (with milk) before my run and then blueberries, broccoli, and cauliflower plus some yogurt (flavored, since it was all I had on hand, but quite likely from Europe!) after, and I too think that protein powder is one of those processed items that help me meet my nutrition goals, but it's why this focus on processed=bad is so misplaced.

As for the calories and the rest, looks good. Do you really think that makes you unique and that the rest of us are eating twinkies or McDonalds and just not eating anything else? My view is that if people start figuring out how to meet their calories within their own preferences--especially if they do think in terms of meeting nutrition needs, which I see recommended commonly here--they naturally start gravitating toward lots of whole foods, vegetables, and so on, because that's a much easier way to decrease calories and be satisfied. You don't need to insist that people cut out "processed" stuff, especially since there seems to be no rational agreed-upon definition of processed and, again, processed stuff may help meet nutritional needs.

But if you feel super good thinking that everyone else here (and all Americans) eat fast food 24/7, go for it.

I'm sure my protein powder is processed too, as is almond milk and flax seed meal, but all are healthy and all natural. But all natural protein powder and a pop tart are both processed foods by definition, yet one is far more processed, and one uses natural ingredients.

I don't think for a long shot most of the people on here are eating mostly junk, I just think some are missing the point. There is a difference between weight loss and eating for overall health and nutritional value. It is possible to eat with a Focus on both, but If that's not your goal or its not important to you, then by all means eat a Big Mac if it fits your caloric requirements.

I'll get off my soap box now.

Edit- and Michael pollan is the man.

And this is my issue with you and others like you.

The bold says that if you eat a Big Mac then you're not eating for health, that your health is not important to you. That is utter nonsense. A balanced healthy diet can include Big Macs, fries and anything else. It's all about balance. If it fits your calories and macro requirements then you can still be healthy and foucused on nutrition.

Big Macs (along with 90% of the food at mcdonalds) is filled with processed garbage and trans fats. Its not good for you. Period. Yes, you can eat one and still be a healthy person overall. But if that style of eating is a daily part of your food choices, you are not making healthy long term decisions.

The whole point I was trying to make Is that eating to lose weight and eating healthy food to promote long term health and well being aren't always the same. Not that you are an evil person if you have a Big Mac once every couple of months.

Try watching the documentary "food inc." to become better acquainted with how and what processed food is made up of, because clearly some folks simply do not understand the definition.

What is the definition?

To me, a processed food is any food that is made using unnatural or genetically modified ingredients.

Here is a good link with a definition and a brief explanation:
http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/processed-food-definition-2074.html

Well then I certainly hope you don't buy anything from a grocery store, because I can assure you that every food there goes through its fair share of "processing."

A good rule of thumb for grocery stores is stay on the perimeter. Veggies, meats (happily raised vegetable or grass fed animals preferably), whole grains, natural cheeses (not processed "cheese foods", non gmo dairy. Its quite simple. Of course there are certain things that are processed to an extent, I usually go organic for that, like marinades, condiments, and what not. Have you ever seen a modern commercial farm? I'm going to assume not based on your assumptions.

I give up. I'm not going to change any bodies mind. If you don't want to or can't grasp the difference between eating low calories and eating healthy, then so be it.

All of the items you listed were processed, or genetically modified through agriculture and animal husbandry over the years.