About ready to give up

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  • AlliSteff
    AlliSteff Posts: 211 Member
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    The rest thing probably pulls the most weight. Maybe I can remove a workout day now and again and take a break
  • PaulaKro
    PaulaKro Posts: 5,705 Member
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    I'm not a nutritionist, but your food diary looks really nicely balanced according to what nutritionists have taught me.

    Are your fats a little low? I've heard different levels and that we need them to absorb vitamins. But I know it's different for everyone. My body likes fats & hates starches but my husband is the opposite. Do you add any to cook with? I use olive oil ("lite" to avoid flavor), nuts, avocados, etc.

    Like you, I've also lost most my excess weight and when I seriously started working out last December, the loss stalled. It was really surprising, you'd think exercise would help lose - but that's your point, isn't it.

    Anyway, I'm losing again now. Here are some things that affect me. Not necessarily all good things.

    - I cut back on calories to under 1000. Please note, I had bariatric surgery last year and am doing this under doctor supervision. I'm very strict and pack in all my protein, vegetables, water and vitamins to make every calorie count. Carbs are kept on the low side (but I need those too) and I try to avoid "empty calories" that don't have nutritional value, like candy and alcohol.

    - I've been working out less. I wish I worked out 5-6 days/wk. But I've been having trouble with my mojo lately and only doing 2-3 light days a week. :grumble: I don't know if it helps me lose, but if did, it's not on purpose. I'd rather find a different way to do it. Using them tells my muscles to stay strong because they're needed. I want the weight loss to come from fat, not muscle. :cry:

    - Every once in awhile, I not-on-purpose eat too many carbs, :explode: for me that's crackers or breads (not sweets) then it takes a couple days to lose the resulting cravings, and I fight hard for it. One day every blue moon I can recover from. But saying "just one more day..." or "hey I need this to lose weight" will take me back to where I started. :noway: That scares me, and in this case, fear is my inspiration.

    - And how fast the food progresses through my digestive system matters. The extra-carb days can help with constipation. Also, sugar-free gum has sorbitol in it which can be a diuretic. (Hope that's not TMI, but hey, it makes a difference.)

    - And drinking a lot of water seems to make a difference too.

    You look great, eat great, work out great and deserve the very best.
    Good luck!
    Paula
  • squiggysmama
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    You've gone from 35% to 26%body fat and you're complaining? It's just a number on the scale. Your health has to be better, and with a 10% drop in body fat, you have to look better too. What else do you want?
  • AlliSteff
    AlliSteff Posts: 211 Member
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    You've gone from 35% to 26%body fat and you're complaining? It's just a number on the scale. Your health has to be better, and with a 10% drop in body fat, you have to look better too. What else do you want?

    Haha thanks. I just still look 'big'...or at least bigger than I was hoping to be by this point (in no way am I saying that I am really big. Just bigger than it would like to be). I am really happy with the fat loss and I know I look better, but I can definitely get trimmer to an extent. I mean, I am talking like and inch or 2 on thighs, inch or 2 on waist, etc. not a ton, but enough to be getting frustrated with any lack of progress as of late. Yes the increased muscle is helping, but I think only with some actual weight loss will those measurements go down.
  • moautry
    moautry Posts: 12 Member
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    Why do you not consider the change in body fat percentage to be weight loss? You have lost lots of fat weight! And judging from your workout routine, you have added quite a bit of muscle weight. You are LEANER! You have replaced fat with calorie-consuming muscles. Isn't that what we want ultimately? Why can't you see that you have made lots of progress with your routine, and it doesn't need to be changed? If you don't like big muscles, stop lifting heavy weights.
  • AlliSteff
    AlliSteff Posts: 211 Member
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    Wow

    I just sent a 30 day log to the nutritionist who works at my endocrinologist's office to see if she could spot anything that I was missing.

    Her response

    "I reviewed the nutrient distribution and totals. Excellent work at tracking and measuring.
    If no weight loss has been achieved, I would consider a more drastic Calorie restriction between 1200 - 1500Cal per day, 120 to 140g of carbs per day"

    That is borderline starving when working out 5-6 days a week? Right? That would have me netting, at 1200 calories per day, approximately 920 calories per day (on average). At 1500, I would be netting 1220 calories on average per day. I am lifting heavy 3 days a week, doing cardio/HIIT stuff 3-4 days a week.....my jaw literally dropped reading this

    Forget about the nutritionist.

    Your work-out routine is impressive.

    Can you work out in the morning, before eating breakfast?

    Working out on an empty stomach is best (water excluded) and the psychological discipline of it might change your hunger patterns. You can probably loosen up on your calorie restriction as a result.

    Maybe get up earlier and go to bed earlier? Any way to can do it, a three week trial should be very interesting for you.

    I used to work out in the morning and loved it, but most of the classes that I like are scheduled in the early evenings (anywhere between 6:30 PM and 8 PM). I can adjust my lifting during the week for sure, and I do workout in the morning on weekends...but I really dig my kickboxing and TRX classes, which are only at night. There are also good AM classes, but they start too late (6:45 AM) for me to get to work on time.
  • HerbertNenenger
    HerbertNenenger Posts: 453 Member
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    what do you do when you're not at the gym? are you sedentary, and these 45-1 hour sessions are all the exercise you get? People that stay active all day don't really need the gym sessions. Put on the pedometer and get in 15000-20000 steps a day for a couple of weeks and see what happens.
  • AlliSteff
    AlliSteff Posts: 211 Member
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    Why do you not consider the change in body fat percentage to be weight loss? You have lost lots of fat weight! And judging from your workout routine, you have added quite a bit of muscle weight. You are LEANER! You have replaced fat with calorie-consuming muscles. Isn't that what we want ultimately? Why can't you see that you have made lots of progress with your routine, and it doesn't need to be changed? If you don't like big muscles, stop lifting heavy weights.

    Definitely leaner and I am very happy with the emergance of muscle...I am just looking to further slim down a bit and I, at this point, son't see that happening without losing a bit of weight
  • AlliSteff
    AlliSteff Posts: 211 Member
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    what do you do when you're not at the gym? are you sedentary, and these 45-1 hour sessions are all the exercise you get? People that stay active all day don't really need the gym sessions. Put on the pedometer and get in 15000-20000 steps a day for a couple of weeks and see what happens.

    Sit at a desk mostly, but living in NYC, I walk everywhere (no car!). I walk about 5,000 steps in my commute to and from work. That is per a phone app, so all the up and down at work I do not track. My 'normal' days on my phone land me around 6,000 steps per day plus all the office walking and gym time.

    I wish I had more time to walk during the day!
  • deansdad101
    deansdad101 Posts: 644 Member
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    I started my 'get in shape journey' last September just to get rid of some flab. My wieght had been stable for years, I just wanted to lose a tad. After a few months of actually getting in shape (and eliminating evening glasses of wine/beer during the week at home), I upped my workout game and really started tracking calories (though one would think if my weight had been stable, and I then started eating less and working out, I would maybe lose a few).

    (snipped)

    I weigh almost exactly the same as when I didn't do anything (watch what I ate or exercised), as wehn I ate 1400 calories a day, as when I ate 1800 calories per day....it is MADDENING.

    I DO have other health issues- Type 1 diabetes (which means even before I started weighing my food, I was really really good at eyeballing servings since my insulin doses depend on figuring out what I am ingesting) and Lupus, and have read anecdotal evidence that the higher your bloodsugar runs, the harder it is to shed weight...but I am in very good control (any insulin dependent diabetic will usually still have sugars running a tad higher than normal) and my doctor says that probably isn't true.....

    So a few weeks ago, I moved my goal back to 1700...and nothing

    (snipped)

    I do wear a HRM, I do own and use a foodscale (any concerns about 1 cup, etc- please know that if the serving is 1 cup and it also notes in in grams on the label, often when I scan the barcode only the cup quantity shows- so I weigh in grams and convert to cups). I do drink more than 8 glasses of water per day (other than black coffee, it is all I drink on a regular basis)

    And yes, there are 'not great' days- mostly when I am traveling for work, but I have really been trying to keep it in control- those days usually involve me waking up at 3:30 AM for an early flight and getting home at 8 PM...so a very long day.

    I just do not know what to do anymore
    Alli;

    You've received just about every single pearl of "conventional wisdom" the low cal / low fat / exercise lemmings have in their arsenal - not the least of which the "nutritionist" so dutifully parroted. (Not her/his fault, necessarily, as that is likely the result of the "training" they received but it IS their fault for not having questioned the results of their recommendations and asking "why?"

    Is it possible that the paradigm (low cal, low fat, exercise) is simply WRONG?

    Possible that the fact that there were NO studies that proved (even close to) conclusively that it made sense and produced the desired results?

    Possible that for every study you can show that exercise is a necessary component of LONG TERM weight loss and maintenance, I can show you 10 that show that it's not? (Not saying exercise isn't necessary, it IS, but for reasons other than weight loss/maintenance.)

    Is it possible that your "doc" just plain doesn't know what s/he's talking about (or that you misinterpreted what s/he meant) when s/he tells you that body insulin levels (not injected or ingested) don't have "much to do..." with creation of fat and/or muscle - or the required levels of injected insulin?

    Possible that it really IS all about diet and the proper balance of carbs, cals, fats, and proteins?

    Possible that "insulin resistance" is at the root of weight control and not exercise or cal intake?

    As a T1D (which is a completely different scenario than T2) there is no "cure" (yet) but recent studies have demonstrated that with proper diet (irrespective of exercise) it IS possible to reduce (but not eliminate) the need for injected insulin.

    My advice would be (especially since you are T1D) do NOTHING, YET - as far as your current diet/exercise regimens are concerned (ie ignore just about all the "pearls" above).....

    BUT, spend some time educating yourself about WHY many current researchers, doctors, and forward thinking, well respected, leaders in the field believe the paradigm IS simply wrong (not the "....it's the fat that's killing you..." pablum spouted by the lemmings), and you might want to consider a major change.

    I haven't looked at your diet details but from the general tenor of the discussion, it's apparent that what you are currently doing (based on what you "believe" and have been told by the "experts"), simply isn't producing the results you were promised (or were led to believe it would).

    If it's any consolation, you're not alone - there is a plethora of "evidence" that demonstrates that it doesn't work.

    Rather than obsessing about how many "reps" you do, exactly how many cals you eat, or any of the hundred other useless "common knowledge" suggestions you've received - spend some time researching the available literature and THEN ask your docs (and the nutritionist) if THEY are aware of it and ask them to explain why what you've learned doesn't make sense and might not just be a better path for you to follow.

    Ask them to "prove" to you where what you've learned is not valid - and more importantly, ask them to show you the "science" that proves that their recommendations are "right" and your new-found knowledge is "wrong" .

    Here's a start:
    http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/how-did-we-come-to-believe-saturated-fat-and-cholesterol-are-bad-for-us

    Yes, it's a "blog" - but he's also an MD and very highly respected in the field. Poke around the entire site and you'll find a wealth of information that, unlike much of that your current "experts" have professed, actually IS based on solid science.

    If an open mind demands that you dig a little deeper I'd suggest spending what might be the best 10 bucks you've ever spent on this book first (and no, I don't have any financial interest or a "referral" link)
    "Why We Get Fat and What To Do About It" - Gary Taubes (kindle book, or hard print, amazon)

    Search for "Gary Taubes" (without the quotes) on YouTube and you'll find a bunch of excellent videos of presentations he's given to medical professionals around the world.

    Best of luck
  • sweetpea03b
    sweetpea03b Posts: 1,124 Member
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    Honestly... If I were in your shoes I wouldn't be complaining. Seeing a fat loss is a loss... even if your weight stays the same. I would definately not lower your calories... just keep doing what you're doing. I didn't start seeing much in the way of body recomposition until I was lifting about 2 months. I think you said you've only been at it 5 weeks. Good luck!
  • farfromthetree
    farfromthetree Posts: 982 Member
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    I work out at least 5 times a week. 3 days weight training and 2 days cardio. I usually stay around 1300 calories a day except for a cheat night or two over the weekend. I am older than you (also was type 2 diabetic). I am not starving, nor am I weak or feel deprived. I have been doing this for almost a year and have never felt better...I can still maintain my workouts. I can do pushups, burpees, and assisted pullups now, which I could not do with the 45 extra pounds on me. I do not lift as heavy as I used to. All in all, I can relate to wanting the scale to move down. Since I do not eat a ton of calories, I do try to get a lot of protein in. I try and use my calories wisely and not on junk food. Good luck!
  • KseRz
    KseRz Posts: 980 Member
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    Wow

    I just sent a 30 day log to the nutritionist who works at my endocrinologist's office to see if she could spot anything that I was missing.

    Her response

    [/b]"I reviewed the nutrient distribution and totals. Excellent work at tracking and measuring.
    If no weight loss has been achieved, I would consider a more drastic Calorie restriction between 1200 - 1500Cal per day, 120 to 140g of carbs per day"[/b]

    That is borderline starving when working out 5-6 days a week? Right? That would have me netting, at 1200 calories per day, approximately 920 calories per day (on average). At 1500, I would be netting 1220 calories on average per day. I am lifting heavy 3 days a week, doing cardio/HIIT stuff 3-4 days a week.....my jaw literally dropped reading this

    Whoever said that should be shot out of a cannon and wherever they land.... Who cares.

    You could have stopped after your 3 paragraph. So in the spring you were 35% and then lost 5% bf and were still the same weight. Correct? So you lost body fat and gained lean mass (since you were the same weight). Other than magic, I dont know another way to explain it. Unless you stepped on the scale with rolls of quarters in your pockets.

    Anyway, so, you have more lean body mass now. Which means more muscle. Which means your body needs more fuel to keep it running. And your response (like your "nutritionist who works at my endocrinologist's office" who should get a job delivering pizza) is to decrease your calories?? :noway:

    I would give up too if my friends with credentials kept giving me bad advice and it kept me from achieving my goals.


    It sounds like you have MFP A.D.D. It sounds like whatever you were doing to go from 30-35% was working pretty well, but you seemed to have got away from that because you werent seeing what you wanted to see fast enough. :flowerforyou:
  • QuietBloom
    QuietBloom Posts: 5,413 Member
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    Wow

    I just sent a 30 day log to the nutritionist who works at my endocrinologist's office to see if she could spot anything that I was missing.

    Her response

    "I reviewed the nutrient distribution and totals. Excellent work at tracking and measuring.
    If no weight loss has been achieved, I would consider a more drastic Calorie restriction between 1200 - 1500Cal per day, 120 to 140g of carbs per day"

    That is borderline starving when working out 5-6 days a week? Right? That would have me netting, at 1200 calories per day, approximately 920 calories per day (on average). At 1500, I would be netting 1220 calories on average per day. I am lifting heavy 3 days a week, doing cardio/HIIT stuff 3-4 days a week.....my jaw literally dropped reading this

    She likely assumes that you are eating your eating exercise calories back, so the numbers she mentioned would be your net.
  • zyxst
    zyxst Posts: 9,136 Member
    Options
    I started my 'get in shape journey' last September just to get rid of some flab. My wieght had been stable for years, I just wanted to lose a tad. After a few months of actually getting in shape (and eliminating evening glasses of wine/beer during the week at home), I upped my workout game and really started tracking calories (though one would think if my weight had been stable, and I then started eating less and working out, I would maybe lose a few).

    (snipped)

    I weigh almost exactly the same as when I didn't do anything (watch what I ate or exercised), as wehn I ate 1400 calories a day, as when I ate 1800 calories per day....it is MADDENING.

    I DO have other health issues- Type 1 diabetes (which means even before I started weighing my food, I was really really good at eyeballing servings since my insulin doses depend on figuring out what I am ingesting) and Lupus, and have read anecdotal evidence that the higher your bloodsugar runs, the harder it is to shed weight...but I am in very good control (any insulin dependent diabetic will usually still have sugars running a tad higher than normal) and my doctor says that probably isn't true.....

    So a few weeks ago, I moved my goal back to 1700...and nothing

    (snipped)

    I do wear a HRM, I do own and use a foodscale (any concerns about 1 cup, etc- please know that if the serving is 1 cup and it also notes in in grams on the label, often when I scan the barcode only the cup quantity shows- so I weigh in grams and convert to cups). I do drink more than 8 glasses of water per day (other than black coffee, it is all I drink on a regular basis)

    And yes, there are 'not great' days- mostly when I am traveling for work, but I have really been trying to keep it in control- those days usually involve me waking up at 3:30 AM for an early flight and getting home at 8 PM...so a very long day.

    I just do not know what to do anymore
    Alli;

    You've received just about every single pearl of "conventional wisdom" the low cal / low fat / exercise lemmings have in their arsenal - not the least of which the "nutritionist" so dutifully parroted. (Not her/his fault, necessarily, as that is likely the result of the "training" they received but it IS their fault for not having questioned the results of their recommendations and asking "why?"

    Is it possible that the paradigm (low cal, low fat, exercise) is simply WRONG?

    Possible that the fact that there were NO studies that proved (even close to) conclusively that it made sense and produced the desired results?

    Possible that for every study you can show that exercise is a necessary component of LONG TERM weight loss and maintenance, I can show you 10 that show that it's not? (Not saying exercise isn't necessary, it IS, but for reasons other than weight loss/maintenance.)

    Is it possible that your "doc" just plain doesn't know what s/he's talking about (or that you misinterpreted what s/he meant) when s/he tells you that body insulin levels (not injected or ingested) don't have "much to do..." with creation of fat and/or muscle - or the required levels of injected insulin?

    Possible that it really IS all about diet and the proper balance of carbs, cals, fats, and proteins?

    Possible that "insulin resistance" is at the root of weight control and not exercise or cal intake?

    As a T1D (which is a completely different scenario than T2) there is no "cure" (yet) but recent studies have demonstrated that with proper diet (irrespective of exercise) it IS possible to reduce (but not eliminate) the need for injected insulin.

    My advice would be (especially since you are T1D) do NOTHING, YET - as far as your current diet/exercise regimens are concerned (ie ignore just about all the "pearls" above).....

    BUT, spend some time educating yourself about WHY many current researchers, doctors, and forward thinking, well respected, leaders in the field believe the paradigm IS simply wrong (not the "....it's the fat that's killing you..." pablum spouted by the lemmings), and you might want to consider a major change.

    I haven't looked at your diet details but from the general tenor of the discussion, it's apparent that what you are currently doing (based on what you "believe" and have been told by the "experts"), simply isn't producing the results you were promised (or were led to believe it would).

    If it's any consolation, you're not alone - there is a plethora of "evidence" that demonstrates that it doesn't work.

    Rather than obsessing about how many "reps" you do, exactly how many cals you eat, or any of the hundred other useless "common knowledge" suggestions you've received - spend some time researching the available literature and THEN ask your docs (and the nutritionist) if THEY are aware of it and ask them to explain why what you've learned doesn't make sense and might not just be a better path for you to follow.

    Ask them to "prove" to you where what you've learned is not valid - and more importantly, ask them to show you the "science" that proves that their recommendations are "right" and your new-found knowledge is "wrong" .

    Here's a start:
    http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/how-did-we-come-to-believe-saturated-fat-and-cholesterol-are-bad-for-us

    Yes, it's a "blog" - but he's also an MD and very highly respected in the field. Poke around the entire site and you'll find a wealth of information that, unlike much of that your current "experts" have professed, actually IS based on solid science.

    If an open mind demands that you dig a little deeper I'd suggest spending what might be the best 10 bucks you've ever spent on this book first (and no, I don't have any financial interest or a "referral" link)
    "Why We Get Fat and What To Do About It" - Gary Taubes (kindle book, or hard print, amazon)

    Search for "Gary Taubes" (without the quotes) on YouTube and you'll find a bunch of excellent videos of presentations he's given to medical professionals around the world.

    Best of luck

    It just got interesting.
    Jaejoong_popcorn.gif
  • AlliSteff
    AlliSteff Posts: 211 Member
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    I work out at least 5 times a week. 3 days weight training and 2 days cardio. I usually stay around 1300 calories a day except for a cheat night or two over the weekend. I am older than you (also was type 2 diabetic). I am not starving, nor am I weak or feel deprived. I have been doing this for almost a year and have never felt better...I can still maintain my workouts. I can do pushups, burpees, and assisted pullups now, which I could not do with the 45 extra pounds on me. I do not lift as heavy as I used to. All in all, I can relate to wanting the scale to move down. Since I do not eat a ton of calories, I do try to get a lot of protein in. I try and use my calories wisely and not on junk food. Good luck!

    Are you consuming 1300 or netting 1300?

    I did respond to the nutritionist and asked her if she meant net calories...she completely ignored that question.
  • AlliSteff
    AlliSteff Posts: 211 Member
    Options

    Whoever said that should be shot out of a cannon and wherever they land.... Who cares.

    You could have stopped after your 3 paragraph. So in the spring you were 35% and then lost 5% bf and were still the same weight. Correct? So you lost body fat and gained lean mass (since you were the same weight). Other than magic, I dont know another way to explain it. Unless you stepped on the scale with rolls of quarters in your pockets.

    Anyway, so, you have more lean body mass now. Which means more muscle. Which means your body needs more fuel to keep it running. And your response (like your "nutritionist who works at my endocrinologist's office" who should get a job delivering pizza) is to decrease your calories?? :noway:

    I would give up too if my friends with credentials kept giving me bad advice and it kept me from achieving my goals.


    It sounds like you have MFP A.D.D. It sounds like whatever you were doing to go from 30-35% was working pretty well, but you seemed to have got away from that because you werent seeing what you wanted to see fast enough. :flowerforyou:

    hahha MFP ADD

    The only thing I really adjusted after the body fat loss was to add heavy lifting and remove one cardio day. And since I wasn't burning nearly the calories that I had been by adjusting my schedule to accomodate lifting, I thought adjusting my calories might be prudent. I can certainly up them again and try it out.
  • Lemongrab13
    Lemongrab13 Posts: 206 Member
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    Don't understand the scale obsession. The reason you're losing weight is to look better. If you've lost that much bodyfat you surely look very different to when you began.
    Post a picture from the start and from one and you'll see.
  • SomeGirlSomewhere
    SomeGirlSomewhere Posts: 937 Member
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    I have type 2 diabetes, but because of the sudden onset of my diabetes I was initially misdiagnosed as having type 1. I gained about 30 lbs. in the 3 months I took insulin. My endocrinologist said that weight gain can be a side effect of using insulin. So I wonder if difficulty in losing weight could also be an issue for some diabetics who take insulin. Just a thought.