Sugar is the new "Devil"

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Replies

  • Posts: 4,585 Member
    As a newbie to MFP but having paid a small fortune to Weight Watchers and Slimming World over the years I thought I knew all there was to know about healthy eating. I have to say I am finding it incredibly difficult to not go over my Sugar allowance - not because of chocolate or fizzy drinks but because of FRUIT!!! and I have always eaten lots of it - especially this time of the year when it is completely free and all around us... suddenly I find that if I eat all he blackberries, apples and plums that I want then I have overloaded big time on my sugar!!
    Sorry off topic there - yes they have a right to tax sugary drinks etc. because they are a luxury. We don't need them because as this app has shown me we could obviously get enough for our bodies by picking bushes and trees....

    I think that the sugar limits in the MFP system are unrealistic. I ignore them for the most part.

    But, to answer your last point, if we tax sugary drinks because they are a "luxury," what else will we tax? Where will it end? Who determines what is a luxury and what is just food?
  • Posts: 522 Member

    I'm sorry but I do not agree with the whole 'people can't afford to go to the doctor' argument.

    So you don't have insurance. Big deal. Guess what? Doctors take CASH and it's NOT as expensive as one would think for a simple visit. Don't have a doctor? Go to a clinic. My husband sprained his ankle really bad several months back. We don't have a GP so we waited until the after hours clinic opened up. We have insurance but we have a $10,000 deductible because our insurance is for a catastrophic emergency only so we always say we don't have insurance. His exam including the 6 x-rays they took was around $250.

    Oh, and you know what else? Doctors and hospitals will put you on a payment plan if you can't afford to pay the bill up front. A friend of mine had to go to the hospital and she had no insurance and was put on a payment plan and they worked with her and asked her what could she afford every month and that's what she paid.

    So not being able to afford a doctor/not having insurance is a weak excuse. And since Obamacare came into play more doctors are going to be only accepting cash.

    What is affordable to you may not be affordable to someone else. $250 is a lot of money to some people.

    I did not know about the payment plan, that's interesting. I'd imagine if you only have to see a doctor once, that would be hugely beneficial. But if you have a condition that requires lots of doctors and prescriptions, the payments will add up and be a burden for a long, long time.
  • Posts: 5,778 Member

    So are you also willing to hire a private police force to protect you from the rioters? Because there is no sense having government all all if you want a truly free market.

    Now you are mixing apples and oranges.

    The gov. has its role, I accept that
    I am not an anarchist.
    Public safety and such is a role for government.

    Them influencing the market place is not a role for them.....countries for years around the world have tried to do that.....and have failed...i.e. Russia...China...

    So let's stay on topic here.....
  • Posts: 899 Member

    the tax code should not be used to punish people.

    Totally agreed.
  • Posts: 5,778 Member

    Sorry off topic there - yes they have a right to tax sugary drinks etc. because they are a luxury. We don't need them because as this app has shown me we could obviously get enough for our bodies by picking bushes and trees....

    Says you...
    I disagree.

    Why should I be taxed because someone can't control themselves??
    Who says what foods are needed or not needed??
  • Posts: 5,778 Member
    What is affordable to you may not be affordable to someone else. $250 is a lot of money to some people.

    I did not know about the payment plan, that's interesting. I'd imagine if you only have to see a doctor once, that would be hugely beneficial. But if you have a condition that requires lots of doctors and prescriptions, the payments will add up and be a burden for a long, long time.

    Then do this.

    Pull out your checkbook, and start stroking checks for people.
    Don't use mine.

    Or, start a charity.....
  • Posts: 1,885 Member

    Now you are mixing apples and oranges.

    The gov. has its role, I accept that
    I am not an anarchist.
    Public safety and such is a role for government.

    Them influencing the market place is not a role for them.....countries for years around the world have tried to do that.....and have failed...i.e. Russia...China...

    So let's stay on topic here.....

    I'm not mixing anything. If you don't want to subsidize food so the poor can eat, I don't want to subsidize your military, police force, or National Guard. Hire protection or defend yourself.
  • Posts: 230
    I think that the sugar limits in the MFP system are unrealistic. I ignore them for the most part.

    But, to answer your last point, if we tax sugary drinks because they are a "luxury," what else will we tax? Where will it end? Who determines what is a luxury and what is just food?

    Totally agree with both points.

    MFP just lumps sugar into one category, but there are many types of sugars from different sources such as fructose, sucrose, glucose, etc.

    I cannot see naturally occuring sugar being bad at all. But remember, everything in moderation.
  • Posts: 5,778 Member
    I'm not mixing anything. If you don't want to subsidize food so the poor can eat, I don't want to subsidize your military, police force, or National Guard. Hire protection or defend yourself.

    You are mixing things

    It is in constitutions both state and federal for those things....it is a government role...
    It is not in those constitutions to influence the market place...
    Or to take money from one group and give to another

    And I do protect myself, I take advantage of the 2nd Amendment
  • Posts: 899 Member

    I'm not mixing anything. If you don't want to subsidize food so the poor can eat, I don't want to subsidize your military, police force, or National Guard. Hire protection or defend yourself.

    I think you're mis reading max, he's not against taxation in general, of course we need to pay into the system to keep our roads and infrastructure running, police force, military and etc etc etc.

    What is wrong is labeling items such as Sugared beverages as a Luxury because some people can't control themselves around it. I don't want to start paying double the price for my donuts because a small part of the population can't control themselves around it.
  • Posts: 5,778 Member
    I'm not mixing anything. If you don't want to subsidize food so the poor can eat, I don't want to subsidize your military, police force, or National Guard. Hire protection or defend yourself.

    Just saw your bio page:
    Anarchist atheist vegan commie. Don't like it? Don't friend me!

    :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
    but yet you want those things you detest, to subsidize things.....

    So funny
  • Posts: 1,885 Member

    You are mixing things

    It is in constitutions both state and federal for those things....it is a government role...
    It is not in those constitutions to influence the market place...
    Or to take money from one group and give to another

    And I do protect myself, I take advantage of the 2nd Amendment

    Either you want taxation for society or not. If you don't, you're an old fashioned, all out anarchist. If you do, you're for government intervention. It's just a matter of your opinion on what government should be involved in vs mine. If we actually had real democracy we could find out what the majority of Americans really want. We don't. We have an oligarchy dressed as a Republic with a constitution that is conveniently ignored every time the real decision makers want something different.
  • Posts: 522 Member

    Then do this.

    Pull out your checkbook, and start stroking checks for people.
    Don't use mine.

    Or, start a charity.....

    Just a philosophical difference I guess.
  • Posts: 2,033 Member
    Did someone say *kitten* tax?

    O.o
  • Posts: 1,885 Member

    Just saw your bio page:
    :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
    but yet you want those things you detest, to subsidize things.....

    So funny


    Google different forms of anarchist. You're confused. Another term for my politics is Libertarian Socialist. It simply means anti-capitalist but also anti central planning. Another term is Participatory Economics.
  • Posts: 1,477 Member

    Totally agreed.

    This.

    Although, to be fair, a sugar tax will never go through. It is amazing how much hold companies have over our government. Politicians get a lot of very nice things with money they get from, oh, the dairy industry or con-agra for example. Those "got milk?" ads? Dairy's big business.

    Not that I don't very much enjoy my ice cream. Get me a douple-dipped cone and bring on Big Brother.
  • Posts: 5,778 Member

    Either you want taxation for society or not. If you don't, you're an old fashioned, all out anarchist. If you do, you're for government intervention. It's just a matter of your opinion on what government should be involved in vs mine. If we actually had real democracy we could find out what the majority of Americans really want. We don't. We have an oligarchy dressed as a Republic with a constitution that is conveniently ignored every time the real decision makers want something different.

    IT IS NOT A MATTER OF OPINION
    It is written down in black ink on parchment, that government has a role in those areas.....
    You live in this country, it is what our law states

    Exactly
    WE ARE A REPUBLIC, not a Democracy...
    Democracy is mob rule....
    it is 2 wolves and a sheep sitting and deciding what is for dinner

    A Republic is
    Two wolves and a sheep deciding what is for dinner, but the sheep has a gun
  • Posts: 522 Member

    Either you want taxation for society or not. If you don't, you're an old fashioned, all out anarchist. If you do, you're for government intervention. It's just a matter of your opinion on what government should be involved in vs mine. If we actually had real democracy we could find out what the majority of Americans really want. We don't. We have an oligarchy dressed as a Republic with a constitution that is conveniently ignored every time the real decision makers want something different.

    I like you.
  • Posts: 552 Member

    Sorry off topic there - yes they have a right to tax sugary drinks etc. because they are a luxury. We don't need them because as this app has shown me we could obviously get enough for our bodies by picking bushes and trees....

    Who decides what is a luxury and what isn't? Again, there are many things that I pay money for that someone would consider a luxury but because they make my life and my husbands life easier to us they're not luxuries.

    So since sugar is considered a "luxury" by you and therefore should be taxed should we then have a separate "sin tax" that is applied every time we use our cell phone, computers, watch TV? Should there be a "sin tax" applied to all the food that we buy because some of the food in the store could be considered a "luxury" to those who can't afford it? When does it stop and who decides what is deemed a luxury and what isn't?

    We don't need more government in our lives period.
  • Posts: 1,885 Member

    IT IS NOT A MATTER OF OPINION
    It is written down in black ink on parchment, that government has a role in those areas.....
    You live in this country, it is what our law states

    Exactly
    WE ARE A REPUBLIC, not a Democracy...
    Democracy is mob rule....
    it is 2 wolves and a sheep sitting and deciding what is for dinner

    A Republic is
    Two wolves and a sheep deciding what is for dinner, but the sheep has a gun

    I'd rather mob rule than rich rule, which is, if you know your history (and I suspect you're intelligent enough to know it) is what we've always had.
  • Posts: 5,778 Member


    Google different forms of anarchist. You're confused. Another term for my politics is Libertarian Socialist. It simply means anti-capitalist but also anti central planning. Another term is Participatory Economics.

    Great
    Free market...
    relegated to the market place
    Get rid of subsidization

    government roles are just that, they are needed, and we do subsidize police, military, etc....
    Or pay taxes for them, however you wish to view it...
    Because we as people deem them necessary to preserve and protect our society
  • Posts: 498 Member
    No such thing as a healthy smoker.

    Just because you can't see the damage doesn't mean it's not there.

    I am an ex-smoker who is finally getting healthy.
  • Posts: 230
    Uh Oh - What have I started - it was just supposed to be a light hearted view of the world from some 45 year-old house wife that lives in South Africa...............:cry:
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  • Posts: 5,778 Member

    I'd rather mob rule than rich rule, which is, if you know your history (and I suspect you're intelligent enough to know it) is what we've always had.

    And why do we have rich rule??
    Oh, cause we have politicians that like to line their pocketbooks......

    Name one country on this earth that exists or has existed where this has not been the case???

    Even in communist countries, where it government control, you always had "rich ppl"
  • Posts: 522 Member

    IT IS NOT A MATTER OF OPINION
    It is written down in black ink on parchment, that government has a role in those areas.....
    You live in this country, it is what our law states

    Exactly
    WE ARE A REPUBLIC, not a Democracy...
    Democracy is mob rule....
    it is 2 wolves and a sheep sitting and deciding what is for dinner

    A Republic is
    Two wolves and a sheep deciding what is for dinner, but the sheep has a gun

    Unfortunately the founding fathers didn't write a "How-to-interpret" guide that accompanies the constitution. You believe that the *federal* constitution should be interpreted narrowly and that those are the only powers the feds should have. Other people disagree and have a wider interpretation of the constitution.

    Edit: Sorry It's been a long time since I've taken American History.
  • Posts: 1,885 Member

    Great
    Free market...
    relegated to the market place
    Get rid of subsidization

    government roles are just that, they are needed, and we do subsidize police, military, etc....
    Or pay taxes for them, however you wish to view it...
    Because we as people deem them necessary to preserve and protect our society

    We disagree on who should decide what government should be involved in. I say direct democracy for what affects us all. We all decide together. No more wealthy decision makers. Who, by the way, don't follow our Constitution anyway.
  • Posts: 1,723 Member
    ahhhhhh.... I'm 53. Therefore, I recommend NOT killing the old people. I also recommend that the old and fat be given a chance to get to a better level of fitness. Oh, and old and fat people who are getting to a better level of fitness should get dark chocolate as a reward.

    I think I mostly slept through economics, however, I do remember seeing something about increases in prices generally bringing down demand.

    Yeah, I never see people at the gasoline pumps anymore.
  • Posts: 230
    No such thing as a healthy smoker.

    No such thing as a healthy inactive obese person either.
  • Posts: 5,778 Member
    Uh Oh - What have I started - it was just supposed to be a light hearted view of the world from some 45 year-old house wife that lives in South Africa...............:cry:

    haha
    Great topic, thank you
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