I have noticed some saying weight loss surgery is a tool.
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Understand, but what keeps them from eating 1900 calories and starting an exercise program? If they are large, they got that way from eating unhealthy and to much and no exercise (most of them). Since they have to follow a strict program with surgery why can't they start that without the surgery? Many on here do and are successful.I suppose for me, it depends on why the surgery is happening and what type of surgery you're referring to.
People who have gastric bypass surgeries to lose weight are still busting their butts to do it; they still have to control what they eat, learn new healthy habits etc, but for some it's an option to help them begin what is likely to be a long journey.
There are also lots of people who require weight loss surgeries because of the health risks of being the size they are outweigh the benefits of I suppose what you would refer to as a "natural weight loss".
I think it's a tool; it's just not a tool for you. It doesn't fit your situation or what you deem necessary.
But if someone is provided that tool by a weight loss center, specifically by someone with a medical degree, I certainly wouldn't judge them for using that option to begin a better, healthier life, nor would I shame them for it the way your post seems to.
You can have an opinion, but to say that it's an "easy way out" or "lazy" or that they haven't had to "bust their butts" like you have is just being cruel. I guarantee you the people who have these surgeries don't come to the decision lightly; they aren't looking for a quick fix nor do they have the impression that it's going to take them from 300lbs to 130 in no time flat. They're just using the tools that are available to them to begin a healthier life; what would you rather they did, had a heart attack attempting to perform the type of exercise that "busting your butt" might entail before their body is physically able to do so?
Maybe they didnt eat 1900 calories for the same reason that got you to a place where you had 117 lbs to lose.
I am sure they got there for the same reason and can do the same thing. Its a mind thing..0 -
My sister had weight loss surgery, and as a result, she has entirely changed her eating habits. Also, she's a great deal more active now than she was when she weighed 100+ pounds more.
My brother is even more overweight than I am, and he has diabetes. He hasn't had surgery, but I'd guess that over the last ten years the medical costs associated with his diabetes care are probably similar to or greater than the costs associated with my sister's surgery.
I won't (at least so far) do the surgery, but that's because I'm terrified of the idea of surgery. It has nothing to do with moral superiority.
I challenge the notion that paying insurance premiums gives anyone the right to tell other people what medical choices to make.0 -
Do what is right for you and lose the judgement of others.0
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Anything you use to your success is a tool.
As to whether you have the surgery or not is a personal choice, I seriously looked into it and discovered that while the surgery would help if I don't change my habits and learn to live "right" all the surgery in the world won't solve my problem.
If you look around this site you'll find lots of people who've had the surgery and gained all or part of their weight back, most likely because, in my opinion most of them "didn't have their head in the game" and weren't prepared for the long term change in lifestyle.
When I checked into the surgery I soon realized that it wasn't an easy way out and I had to do all of the stuff associated with a healthy diet-lifestyle change etc and since I'm a cheap *kitten* I had to ask myself why I was going to spend that kind of money if I had to work hard anyway...
Not having the surgery has been a success for me, it may or may not work for others but the bottom line is you have to be ready and willing to go all in and make it work for you. If you think it's an easy fix you'll more than likely be disappointed in the surgery and yourself somewhere down the road.
I don't think it's the easy way out but when I look at my results it's a little boost in pride knowing that I did it 'the old fashioned way" and didn't take the surgical route.
YMMV...0 -
My sister had weight loss surgery, and as a result, she has entirely changed her eating habits. Also, she's a great deal more active now than she was when she weighed 100+ pounds more.
My brother is even more overweight than I am, and he has diabetes. He hasn't had surgery, but I'd guess that over the last ten years the medical costs associated with his diabetes care are probably similar to or greater than the costs associated with my sister's surgery.
I won't (at least so far) do the surgery, but that's because I'm terrified of the idea of surgery. It has nothing to do with moral superiority.
I challenge the notion that paying insurance premiums gives anyone the right to tell other people what medical choices to make.
Agreed. That's not a road down which I'm prepared to go.0 -
It is not an easy way out. However, people mistakenly see it as an easy way out, and choose to do it, only to regain the weight because they never bothered to change their habits.
There are people that, biologically, are not capable of losing weight. For them, it is a tool.0 -
I challenge the notion that paying insurance premiums gives anyone the right to tell other people what medical choices to make.
:drinker:
:smooched: 0 -
I have LOTS of opinion about TOOLS: like SURGERY and TOOLS who post ignorant crap on the internet.
Is it an easy out? No. It's a wonderful tool that is helping ME to do what i could not do on my own, along with counseling, nutritional advice, and exercise. I will always have to work hard to maintain any weight loss, the only thing is that now my stomach is smaller and does not allow me to overeat the way that I did. The rapid weight loss in the beginning allowed me to start moving and exercising. I'm happy, I paid for the surgery out of pocket, and don't think it's any of your damn business what other people do. Worried about tax dollars? Write your Congressman.0 -
There are many tools on MFP. :flowerforyou:
...And weight loss surgery is a personal decision and none of anyone's business unless the person asks for input. Paying insurance premiums doesn't entitle you to make another's medical decisions.0 -
There are many tools on MFP. :flowerforyou:
...And weight loss surgery is a personal decision and none of anyone's business unless the person asks for input. Paying insurance premiums doesn't entitle you to make another's medical decisions.
/thread.0 -
Tell that to someone who is 350 pounds or more, that can barely get out of their chair let alone walk 15 minutes and there numbers are all way too high?
Eating right and exercising is a tool... Weight loss surgery is also a tool... WLS isn't going to keep the weight off, it only helps someone get to a point where they can do a better job of managing the weight. They will still have to use the other tools as well if they want to keep it off.
They couldn't manage it before what changes it after surgery? Its the mind that needs changing>
That's why I said they will still have to use the other tools as well, because that requires a change in thinking.... but for some people how they physically feel and see themselves is a huge mental stumbling block...0 -
I have LOTS of opinion about TOOLS: like SURGERY and TOOLS who post ignorant crap on the internet.
Is it an easy out? No. It's a wonderful tool that is helping ME to do what i could not do on my own, along with counseling, nutritional advice, and exercise. I will always have to work hard to maintain any weight loss, the only thing is that now my stomach is smaller and does not allow me to overeat the way that I did. The rapid weight loss in the beginning allowed me to start moving and exercising. I'm happy, I paid for the surgery out of pocket, and don't think it's any of your damn business what other people do. Worried about tax dollars? Write your Congressman.
I didn't have to, they took it off the insurance because they felt like it was being abused.0 -
Easy enough I care because I know state insurances that are funded by tax payers that pay for theses surgeries. I have seen 3 people in my area have them and fail at keeping the weight off. How much did that cost us?
I am so sick of seeing this ridiculous argument used to justify passing judgment on other people. Do you also condemn every person who has to have surgery because they blew out a knee exercising? Or someone that injured themselves doing extreme sports? How about every driver that has an accident due to speeding and injures himself or someone else? No? I didn't think so.
But guess what, insurance pays for those choices, too. Insurance is a group pool to spread risks. I don't want someone (either from the government or an insurance company) passing judgment on every single thing I do, and I really don't think you do, either.0 -
I don't think it's fair to say that it's the easy way out. I know quite a few people who have had the surgery and there is nothing easy or pleasant about it. Most of the people I know who have had it are still doing great, but the surgery didn't "fix" them, it just kick started the process. They had to get in the same mindset as those of us doing it on our own because the surgery isn't going to work if you don't change as well. Being morbidly obese, I looked into it at the beginning of my journey after three doctors told me I could not do this on my own (I'm showing them..), but it was not a route I was willing to take because I did not want to deal with the risks, side effects, or process you have to go through to have the surgery and the post-surgery diet itself does not seem very healthy or appealing to me, though I understand the reasoning for the specific diet. I believe we all face our struggles when it comes to weight loss and those people who are willing to go through all of that - more power to them because I couldn't do it. There is really no easy way to do this whether you choose to do it through diet/exercise/MFP, surgery, or other methods.0
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I have LOTS of opinion about TOOLS: like SURGERY and TOOLS who post ignorant crap on the internet.
Is it an easy out? No. It's a wonderful tool that is helping ME to do what i could not do on my own, along with counseling, nutritional advice, and exercise. I will always have to work hard to maintain any weight loss, the only thing is that now my stomach is smaller and does not allow me to overeat the way that I did. The rapid weight loss in the beginning allowed me to start moving and exercising. I'm happy, I paid for the surgery out of pocket, and don't think it's any of your damn business what other people do. Worried about tax dollars? Write your Congressman.
I didn't have to, they took it off the insurance because they felt like it was being abused.
So what's your complaint?0 -
Tell that to someone who is 350 pounds or more, that can barely get out of their chair let alone walk 15 minutes and there numbers are all way too high?
Eating right and exercising is a tool... Weight loss surgery is also a tool... WLS isn't going to keep the weight off, it only helps someone get to a point where they can do a better job of managing the weight. They will still have to use the other tools as well if they want to keep it off.
423 pounds here. Can get out of a chair easily enough, but I get winded from even fast walking for a mile. So I guess I count well enough for your example.
To me, WLS is not an option because it doesn't really solve anything. Okay, so my stomach is smaller, great. That doesn't prevent my cravings or psychological issues or bad eating habits. It doesn't help me get to the gym or develop a more active lifestyle in general. I just can't fit as much down my gullet any more.
I personally don't understand the appeal. It's not a magic bullet.
More power to those who choose to get it done, but I won't be. For me, the most effective tool will be the one that will get me long term results: lifestyle change, learning to eat healthily at an appropriate daily caloric level, and finding physical activities I will stick with.
Throwing a rubber band around my stomach isn't a long term fix.
But that's my perspective.0 -
when you are 500 lbs , YOU ARE AT RISK OF DYING
You didnt get to 500 lbs over nite ,it took a life time of bad habits to put you in that boat..........I didnt get it, I can make changes, SOME PEOPLE JUST CANT
If death was at my door and I was dying of obesity, I would do what ever I could to save myself.......anything
Some people say that people who go to a gym are wasting their time, they have nothing to show for it
wrong, I disagree, a huge weight loss is something that is sucess..........if you have no choice, what else are you supposed to do?0 -
Without being in the situation of NEEDING/WANTING the weight loss surgery I cant really say what I would do. But I can say it must take some amount of courage to go have any kind of surgery performed.(Thankfully, I have never had to go through that) I don't really see it as an "easy way out" either. These poor souls often end up with more problems than they had before to deal with. I say even if they tried it and failed good for them!0
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Easy enough I care because I know state insurances that are funded by tax payers that pay for theses surgeries. I have seen 3 people in my area have them and fail at keeping the weight off. How much did that cost us?
I am so sick of seeing this ridiculous argument used to justify passing judgment on other people. Do you also condemn every person who has to have surgery because they blew out a knee exercising? Or someone that injured themselves doing extreme sports? How about every driver that has an accident due to speeding and injures himself or someone else? No? I didn't think so.
But guess what, insurance pays for those choices, too. Insurance is a group pool to spread risks. I don't want someone (either from the government or an insurance company) passing judgment on every single thing I do, and I really don't think you do, either.
None of those situation that you listed are logical. Yes I do blame the speeding driver, because the law does. SMH0 -
I guess I don't understand that logic. I find MFP and exercise programs to be tools. I find surgery as a last ditch effort for someone who cannot get their mind and body in sync. I have nothing against it if its your choice, but for all the people that have busted their butts doing it the healthy lifestyle way I consider surgery an easy out. You thoughts?
Judge much?
Why don't we focus on our own lives and let people who's challenges we don't even understand make their own choices.
The weight loss surgery my friend had in no way affects my personal body composition or strength. It doesn't make what I did any more or less virtuous. It does, however, give me a running partner.
As a matter of fact, she's on here using MFP to track her calories. She does ALL the stuff I do, in addition to the surgery. So, tell me again how it was an easy way out?0 -
Understand, but what keeps them from eating 1900 calories and starting an exercise program? If they are large, they got that way from eating unhealthy and to much and no exercise (most of them). Since they have to follow a strict program with surgery why can't they start that without the surgery? Many on here do and are successful.I suppose for me, it depends on why the surgery is happening and what type of surgery you're referring to.
People who have gastric bypass surgeries to lose weight are still busting their butts to do it; they still have to control what they eat, learn new healthy habits etc, but for some it's an option to help them begin what is likely to be a long journey.
There are also lots of people who require weight loss surgeries because of the health risks of being the size they are outweigh the benefits of I suppose what you would refer to as a "natural weight loss".
I think it's a tool; it's just not a tool for you. It doesn't fit your situation or what you deem necessary.
But if someone is provided that tool by a weight loss center, specifically by someone with a medical degree, I certainly wouldn't judge them for using that option to begin a better, healthier life, nor would I shame them for it the way your post seems to.
You can have an opinion, but to say that it's an "easy way out" or "lazy" or that they haven't had to "bust their butts" like you have is just being cruel. I guarantee you the people who have these surgeries don't come to the decision lightly; they aren't looking for a quick fix nor do they have the impression that it's going to take them from 300lbs to 130 in no time flat. They're just using the tools that are available to them to begin a healthier life; what would you rather they did, had a heart attack attempting to perform the type of exercise that "busting your butt" might entail before their body is physically able to do so?
There's so much more to WLS than just the surgery. The recovery, the post-surgery lifestyle... none of it is "easy."
In a lot of cases, WLS is cheaper in the long run than ongoing healthcare costs for someone who is morbidly obese.
Please step off your high horse, it's making you look like a huge jerk.0 -
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I've look at a few of the WLS threads and I find it amusing that many (not all) of the people who are calling it a "Cheat" or an 'Easy way out" would never qualify for the surgery because of the lesser amount of weight they need/want to lose. Assuming that their ticker is correct etc, I have to wonder if there's a bit of jealously in play? :indifferent:0
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Tell that to someone who is 350 pounds or more, that can barely get out of their chair let alone walk 15 minutes and there numbers are all way too high?
Eating right and exercising is a tool... Weight loss surgery is also a tool... WLS isn't going to keep the weight off, it only helps someone get to a point where they can do a better job of managing the weight. They will still have to use the other tools as well if they want to keep it off.
423 pounds here. Can get out of a chair easily enough, but I get winded from even fast walking for a mile. So I guess I count well enough for your example.
To me, WLS is not an option because it doesn't really solve anything. Okay, so my stomach is smaller, great. That doesn't prevent my cravings or psychological issues or bad eating habits. It doesn't help me get to the gym or develop a more active lifestyle in general. I just can't fit as much down my gullet any more.
I personally don't understand the appeal. It's not a magic bullet.
More power to those who choose to get it done, but I won't be. For me, the most effective tool will be the one that will get me long term results: lifestyle change, learning to eat healthily at an appropriate daily caloric level, and finding physical activities I will stick with.
Throwing a rubber band around my stomach isn't a long term fix.
But that's my perspective.
The example that was in my head was my father in law actually... He didn't quite qualify for WLS, I don't think he is 400 pounds anymore... but he has a hard time getting out of his chair, has diabetes, and a whole slew of other diseases... which I won't get into... but for the people like him where it is do or die... it's a necessary tool...
Now for me personally, I would never do it... I do everything I can to not have surgery of any kind... not even for an ingrown toe nail... but it's not an easy way out.0 -
Tell that to someone who is 350 pounds or more, that can barely get out of their chair let alone walk 15 minutes and there numbers are all way too high?
I started at about 500 pounds, and am still going. I didn't exercise at all until I'd dropped about 75 pounds. I just stopped putting so much food in my piehole.
That said, for some people surgery works. Obviously due to the fact that a lot of people who have WLS regain a significant amount of weight (exact numbers vary depending on where you look) it's a not a guaranteed success, but the same is true for dieting. I'm curious how the two compare side by side, because it's apparent which one is less expensive and has less risk of serious complications and/or death.I challenge the notion that paying insurance premiums gives anyone the right to tell other people what medical choices to make.
Because health care spending is a finite amount of money (unless you have a money tree or can deficit spend into oblivion and let our children and grandchildren pick up the tab) providing WLS means other procedures aren't covered. I'm not going to start an argument about where different surgeries fall on the necessity scale but choices have to be made by insurers and the public about these things.0 -
Dude gets it!Tell that to someone who is 350 pounds or more, that can barely get out of their chair let alone walk 15 minutes and there numbers are all way too high?
Eating right and exercising is a tool... Weight loss surgery is also a tool... WLS isn't going to keep the weight off, it only helps someone get to a point where they can do a better job of managing the weight. They will still have to use the other tools as well if they want to keep it off.
423 pounds here. Can get out of a chair easily enough, but I get winded from even fast walking for a mile. So I guess I count well enough for your example.
To me, WLS is not an option because it doesn't really solve anything. Okay, so my stomach is smaller, great. That doesn't prevent my cravings or psychological issues or bad eating habits. It doesn't help me get to the gym or develop a more active lifestyle in general. I just can't fit as much down my gullet any more.
I personally don't understand the appeal. It's not a magic bullet.
More power to those who choose to get it done, but I won't be. For me, the most effective tool will be the one that will get me long term results: lifestyle change, learning to eat healthily at an appropriate daily caloric level, and finding physical activities I will stick with.
Throwing a rubber band around my stomach isn't a long term fix.
But that's my perspective.0 -
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I view it as the end of the road choice and certainly isn't "the easy way out." I look at is as the worst way out. You are faced with either dying due to your overconsumption or modifying (in a sense, IMO, mutilating/damaging/permanently harming) your digestive system in order to save your life.
Personally, I'd never have such surgery, and I wish everyone could control themselves so it would never happen, but I can understand why people get to that decision point.
Overeating and becoming super-super-obese is not usually viewed as suicidal behavior by the medical professions. But if it was, it could be possible to have someone committed against their will in some cases, and forced to endure a controlled diet restriction for a year or two. Of course, they would likely just put the weight back on again as soon as they get out.
All of these possibilities have a lot of negatives and fly in the face of hard won freedoms. Which is why I am also against committing someone suffering like that against their will. There is no easy answer if traditional willpower and dieting cannot be sustained by someone.0 -
I think that, well. When you're at that point that its so difficult and you feel so bad all the time, then why not.
Its like a restart, a chance to start over and I think shaming someone for making a decision that's pretty difficult and scary is not a nice idea. You can decide for yourself what you want or don't want, but its not your place to say that about others. Leave them in peace to find their own way to the life they want.0 -
Why do you care? Not even trying to be rude, legitimately curious.
I don't know about the OP, but for me, I care because there are a few people in my family who decide to mooch off the government, sit on their butts and don't work, and eat all day. Maybe I sound bitter, but one of my family members who is really overweight decided to have weight loss surgery. Her doctor wrote it off as a medical need, so her medical card is paying for it. Which means all of us working folks get to pay for her "easy way out" of losing weight.
If you pay for it yourself, it's really none of my business what you do. But when society is paying for an unnecessary procedure, it angers me. It just angers me that instead of eating at a deficit and working out, people choose to just have surgery. I understand horribly obese people need surgery before they can diet and exercise for medical safety purposes, but for someone who is just overweight, I find it an excessive move.0
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