Is my trainer wrong?
Replies
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Try not to dread tomorrow - go back, give him another chance by clearly explaining (again) your plan and goals and maybe you'll mesh better this time. If not, get your money's worth from your 3 sessions, learn proper form and either try someone else or keep learning on your own. Sometimes people just have a bad day and he may rethink what you originally asked and may be more helpful.
Thanks for the positivity! He just cancelled our session which made me paranoid he is on here.... But I am still going tomorrow and will do my best by myself! I think your grown-up approach of explaining my concerns and asking more questions is worthwhile. Maybe I am misunderstanding or maybe I am not expressing myself clearly. But now that I know I am not completely off-base, I feel better about speaking up and saying "This doesn't feel right". Yesterday I felt very intimidated because I wasn't sure if what I thought I knew was on point. I know I have a lot to learn but I should trust my gut too!0 -
FORM FORM FORM FORM........there is a guy in the gym when doing curls swings his body. If he had proper gurantee he wuldn't be lifting as much. Thats a reason why he hasn't shown any progress in the last 6 months. FORM IS KEY!!!0
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What is your goal? Strength only, or hypertrophy and aesthetics? If it's the former, you are correct. If it's the latter, the trainer is correct and this isn't the most efficient and safe program for you.
Strength. I mean, I would like to lower my body fat a bit so you can see the muscle I am building but that will be diet-focused, right? But even if you train for size, don't you get stronger?
there is a matter of maximization. When you train for size you get maximal size, and strength. When you train for strength you get maximal strength and then increased size comes as a product of that.
SO much to learn
Thanks for explaining that. I always thought the difference between size (besides how heavy you lift to grow the muscle), was how low you get your body fat. I didn't realize training for strength was a different animal than training for size.
well, to be honest with you, i think more often then not one will mistake the definition gained by losing fat for an actual increase in muscle size.
people's preceptions of what kind of muscle mass is naturally attainable is pretty warpped by pro bodybuilding, pro wrestling, and actors who've built careers out of being large muscular men. That kind of physique isn't attainable without drugs (for over 95% of the population at least). I'd take that a step further and say that most men probably aren't very far away from thier full genetic potential muscle mass simply by being active and not being mal-nurished.
my point being that i think most guys would be very happy with thier muscularity if they could just keep the muslce they already have and drop significant amounts of body fat.
this is not meant as an excuse not to lift, as you will have a tough time keeping your muscle while losing fat without lifting, nor is it a suggestion that training for size is pointless, as one lbs. of muslce can have a dramtic effect on a body with low BF%... its just a reminder to keep things in perspective.
this is a chart that was developed by researching natural body builders. Its supposed to give you an idea of what the average person would weight, at a given height and bf% after ten years of training without steroids
http://www.builtlean.com/2011/03/30/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain-naturally/
Well that is true. I do want to put on a lot more muscle though. It more of me being a competitor and going after the strongest in my circle of friends group. The champ at the time has some very good genetics but he also has been weight training for 12 years of top of that.0 -
FORM FORM FORM FORM........there is a guy in the gym when doing curls swings his body. If he had proper gurantee he wuldn't be lifting as much. Thats a reason why he hasn't shown any progress in the last 6 months. FORM IS KEY!!!
seems rare to see anyone not rocking back and forth doing curls these days, especailly if they are under 300 -
FORM FORM FORM FORM........there is a guy in the gym when doing curls swings his body. If he had proper gurantee he wuldn't be lifting as much. Thats a reason why he hasn't shown any progress in the last 6 months. FORM IS KEY!!!
Totally agreed, form is very very important. I'd rather lift less rather than sacrifice form.0 -
Fire your trainer, if anyone should be doing any movements at all, it would be dead lift, squat and bench press, I also say standing overhead press.... but never see anyone but me do it lol. Anyways, visit the following you tube channels, they have a lot of information to offer. Candito Training HQ, Strength Camp, Physiques of Greatness.0
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FORM FORM FORM FORM........there is a guy in the gym when doing curls swings his body. If he had proper gurantee he wuldn't be lifting as much. Thats a reason why he hasn't shown any progress in the last 6 months. FORM IS KEY!!!
seems rare to see anyone not rocking back and forth doing curls these days, especailly if they are under 30
There are a lot of professional body builders and trainers alike who promote cheat curls as a formidable movement, usually superset with seated controlled curls followed by drop sets. You must find a happy medium between load and form, if you sacrifice progressive overload for form and vice versa you are doing it wrong.0 -
Try not to dread tomorrow - go back, give him another chance by clearly explaining (again) your plan and goals and maybe you'll mesh better this time. If not, get your money's worth from your 3 sessions, learn proper form and either try someone else or keep learning on your own. Sometimes people just have a bad day and he may rethink what you originally asked and may be more helpful.
Thanks for the positivity! He just cancelled our session which made me paranoid he is on here.... But I am still going tomorrow and will do my best by myself! I think your grown-up approach of explaining my concerns and asking more questions is worthwhile. Maybe I am misunderstanding or maybe I am not expressing myself clearly. But now that I know I am not completely off-base, I feel better about speaking up and saying "This doesn't feel right". Yesterday I felt very intimidated because I wasn't sure if what I thought I knew was on point. I know I have a lot to learn but I should trust my gut too!
You paid for a service, which you weren't happy with (I wouldn't have been either!). I wouldn't even care if he was on here and read this, you've done nothing wrong. If anything, he should be glad you wrote this here and not on a review website about his services, because he gets to remain anonymous on here lol whereas a negative review IRL is a lot more visible to future clients. I get not wanting to fire him right off the bat etc. since this is something you've already paid for, but you deserve a trainer that will help you meet YOUR goals, not whatever he thinks. This noob right here had never even seen an olympic barbell up close, let alone even know what a deadlift was prior to a few months ago. I started SL without a trainer and am fine. It's a perfectly fine program for beginners!0 -
FORM FORM FORM FORM........there is a guy in the gym when doing curls swings his body. If he had proper gurantee he wuldn't be lifting as much. Thats a reason why he hasn't shown any progress in the last 6 months. FORM IS KEY!!!
seems rare to see anyone not rocking back and forth doing curls these days, especailly if they are under 30
There are a lot of professional body builders and trainers alike who promote cheat curls as a formidable movement, usually superset with seated controlled curls followed by drop sets. You must find a happy medium between load and form, if you sacrifice progressive overload for form and vice versa you are doing it wrong.
There is a time for cheat curls and partial reps. It is all about how much workload you put on your body. Cheat curls and force reps can help you get stronger.0 -
Your trainer is absolutely right. You need prior strenght training so that the proper muscles are activating when you're doing strong lifts. For example, I was pretty fit, but when I first started with my personal trainer my upper back was so weak, that my lower back was constantly kicking in when it shouldn't, to compensate for my lack of strength in my upper back. My lower back was super muscular and firm because it had been compensating for other lack areas of my body for so long (also my core). Until we did strength training all over for a few months, and I had a chance to build up my muscles where they were lacking, there was no way I could properly do strong lifts. Be patient... You want to have a good solid foundation before you start heavy lifting. Think of it this way - if you build a nice big house on a cracked foundation, well it's screwed forever. That's what your doing when you start strong lifting without strength training first.0
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FORM FORM FORM FORM........there is a guy in the gym when doing curls swings his body. If he had proper gurantee he wuldn't be lifting as much. Thats a reason why he hasn't shown any progress in the last 6 months. FORM IS KEY!!!
seems rare to see anyone not rocking back and forth doing curls these days, especailly if they are under 30
There are a lot of professional body builders and trainers alike who promote cheat curls as a formidable movement, usually superset with seated controlled curls followed by drop sets. You must find a happy medium between load and form, if you sacrifice progressive overload for form and vice versa you are doing it wrong.
theres a big difference between using some over load techniques and constantly using bad form as a matter of course because you think lifting bigger dumbells makes your shlong appear bigger0 -
I didn't read through everything so sorry if a repeat:
I went to a gym to see about a trainer and I told her my goal was to eventually be able to "powerlift" which I know is a range and blah blah but I just said I want to ultimately lift heavy, but I still have 80lbs and 20% body fat to lose and have no idea form. She outlined an entire plan after doing on assessment. Basically, she said I need to start with core and stability work because without that how am I going to pick things up? She also watches form carefully. I felt comfortable with her and with that because it makes sense to me, it pushes me, but it's not pushing me too hard. Basics first, right?
That's what a trainer *should* do, in my opinion. Figure out where you are compared to where you want to be, not to where he thinks you should go. See if you can switch to a different trainer.0 -
Regardless of what you are doing, proper form is a must!
Form, form, form.
I know--that's why I got the trainer!!! I am just not sure if he is right and I shouldn't start with SL, or if I am ok doing SL as a beginner as long as I pay attention to form.
So should my back hurt immediately after a deadlift? Is that a sign of poor form or just weak muscle and I should move my weight down until I build strength? I am not worried about being weak or looking dumb....I just want to do it right and not get hurt!
Your back should NOT HURT after deadlifts. Could be a form issue, especially if your back was rounding. Could be too heavy for your lower back. The most I've ever felt in my lower back was tightness during the lift from the muscles working to keep my back from rounding. It fades as soon as I let go of the weight.
I feel deads mostly in my glutes. I feel some stretch in the hamstrings at the bottom of the lift. They are definitely getting worked, though - they're super tired if I run afterwards. I felt it in my hamstrings much more when I was doing deficit stiff-legged deadlifts.0 -
I just started working with a personal trainer two weeks ago. We did dead lifts in my first session with low weights and in my fourth session we worked on straight leg dead lifts with increased weight.
It is odd that your trainer is saying you shouldn't be lifting. It seems like he is mostly concerned with form which is, from what can tell from my training, the most crucial aspect of strength training.
My trainer gradually increases the weights without sacrificing form.0 -
. Basically, she said I need to start with core and stability work because without that how am I going to pick things up?
because that's what EVERY trainer says.
How are you going to pick things up?
by practicing picking things up.
You don't get better at picking things up by planking.0 -
Your trainer is absolutely right. You need prior strenght training so that the proper muscles are activating when you're doing strong lifts. For example, I was pretty fit, but when I first started with my personal trainer my upper back was so weak, that my lower back was constantly kicking in when it shouldn't, to compensate for my lack of strength in my upper back. My lower back was super muscular and firm because it had been compensating for other lack areas of my body for so long (also my core). Until we did strength training all over for a few months, and I had a chance to build up my muscles where they were lacking, there was no way I could properly do strong lifts. Be patient... You want to have a good solid foundation before you start heavy lifting. Think of it this way - if you build a nice big house on a cracked foundation, well it's screwed forever. That's what your doing when you start strong lifting without strength training first.
I disagree. If you do the lifts with correct form, you're good. Continue steadily increasing weight.
If your stronger muscles are taking over, then your form cannot be good - maybe you good morning out of a squat, for example, or your bench is lopsided. Then you drop the weight until you can do the lift with good form and work back up from there. Try using dumbbells if you have a weaker side, or can't lift the bar. Your weaker muscles will get stronger, you stall until they do.
If you have to drop the weights completely and start with bodyweight only, you do that.
If you can't do them with just bodyweight, then you modify the exercise until it is easy enough you can manage it.
Until you've done all of that, there's no reason you can't start with Stronglifts.
There is nothing wrong about (temporarily) adding in accessory work to address an obvious weakness. But there's no point to waiting to do Stronglifts until all of your ducks are in a row, when you could be at least going through the motions and learning form.0 -
. Basically, she said I need to start with core and stability work because without that how am I going to pick things up?
because that's what EVERY trainer says.
How are you going to pick things up?
by practicing picking things up.
You don't get better at picking things up by planking.
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so I had a first session with a trainer earlier this week, and while mine was not this negative about SL, I could tell that she definitely would prefer to be tailoring some sort of custom program. this first session was really just a fitness assessment, but we obviously talked about my goals, and I had also been specific when I submitted my paperwork and payment that I wanted to work on lifting.
we are meeting again next week, so when i emailed her to confirm the time, I put in a link to the SL program and wrote something along the lines of "I've done a lot of research, and feel that this program is a very good match for my personal goals and my lifestyle. I'm happy to have you teach me any other exercises that you think would be beneficial, but I want to be sure that we spend time in this session working on form and starting weights for these five lifts."
if you can't email the trainer, maybe write something like this out and practice a few times before meeting with him again? i am very bad about standing up for myself in these types of situations, and that always helps me.0 -
so I had a first session with a trainer earlier this week, and while mine was not this negative about SL, I could tell that she definitely would prefer to be tailoring some sort of custom program. this first session was really just a fitness assessment, but we obviously talked about my goals, and I had also been specific when I submitted my paperwork and payment that I wanted to work on lifting.
we are meeting again next week, so when i emailed her to confirm the time, I put in a link to the SL program and wrote something along the lines of "I've done a lot of research, and feel that this program is a very good match for my personal goals and my lifestyle. I'm happy to have you teach me any other exercises that you think would be beneficial, but I want to be sure that we spend time in this session working on form and starting weights for these five lifts."
if you can't email the trainer, maybe write something like this out and practice a few times before meeting with him again? i am very bad about standing up for myself in these types of situations, and that always helps me.
I like your approach, very good way to handle it.0 -
. Basically, she said I need to start with core and stability work because without that how am I going to pick things up?
because that's what EVERY trainer says.
How are you going to pick things up?
by practicing picking things up.
You don't get better at picking things up by planking.
But I *want* to get better at those things, I should have specified. I'm not comfortable lifting a barbell right now because I can't, and I can't with proper form.0 -
. Basically, she said I need to start with core and stability work because without that how am I going to pick things up?
because that's what EVERY trainer says.
How are you going to pick things up?
by practicing picking things up.
You don't get better at picking things up by planking.
But I *want* to get better at those things, I should have specified. I'm not comfortable lifting a barbell right now because I can't, and I can't with proper form.
the only way you get better at it- is by doing it. use a broomstick and work on mobility.
Yes- "core work" and "stability" will help- but so will just trying to do those actual things you want to do.0 -
. Basically, she said I need to start with core and stability work because without that how am I going to pick things up?
because that's what EVERY trainer says.
How are you going to pick things up?
by practicing picking things up.
You don't get better at picking things up by planking.
But I *want* to get better at those things, I should have specified. I'm not comfortable lifting a barbell right now because I can't, and I can't with proper form.
the only way you get better at it- is by doing it. use a broomstick and work on mobility.
Yes- "core work" and "stability" will help- but so will just trying to do those actual things you want to do.
That true. Got to just keep trying to lift the bar until you can. Then you can start throwing on some plates.0 -
. Basically, she said I need to start with core and stability work because without that how am I going to pick things up?
because that's what EVERY trainer says.
How are you going to pick things up?
by practicing picking things up.
You don't get better at picking things up by planking.
But I *want* to get better at those things, I should have specified. I'm not comfortable lifting a barbell right now because I can't, and I can't with proper form.
the only way you get better at it- is by doing it. use a broomstick and work on mobility.
Yes- "core work" and "stability" will help- but so will just trying to do those actual things you want to do.
I'm aware of that, but I do all those lifts, just with lower weight dumb bells. I still get deadlfts, weighted squats, ohp, etc. in, just not with a barbell. I don't see how that's an issue. I prefer it, I'm intimidated by the barbell right now and until I reach a point where it doesn't make sense for my ability level to do dumb bell work, I'm fine with that.
Maybe my experiences with my trainer aren't pertinent to the thread and I should have figured that out. But I'm losing inches with her, happy and comfortable, and making progress. So.0 -
I have never worked with barbells. Some dumbbells....some machines.....so I wanted to make sure I was doing the lifts correctly. I didn't even know how to add plates! :laugh:
As for deadlifts...I thought it was 1 set of 5?
No, ma'am. One rep, 5 sets on the DLs.
The Strong Lifts site itself begs to differ -- http://stronglifts.com/why-deadlifts-1x5-stronglifts-5x5-squats/
1 set, 5 reps = 1x5.0 -
I think you may want to try a different trainer. I have been doing some basic lifting with a really good trainer for about a year now, and am pretty confident you should never feel a lift in your lower back. There are ways to learn the movements without putting you at risk of injury.0
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I would squat & dead lift but start very light - maybe just the bar - or body weight squats. Straight leg deadlifts & good mornings are great to strengthen the posterior chain - get some instruction on proper form first. They are not dangerous if done properly. Eastcoast Jim
Thanks! I am almost wondering if he started me too heavy to "prove me wrong".
Yeah, that's kinda my feeling too; seems he was trying to prove a point. My first time doing deads it was a 15# body bar to get form. You will feel deadlifts in your lower back, but it should be the muscle group you're feeling. It took me a while to learn the difference between what it feels like to work your lower back correctly. It was disconcerting at first.
I went through a few dud trainers before I found someone who worked well with me. He's a former competitive body builder, and is a fricken stickler for form. I only get to go heavier when my form is p.e.r.f.e.c.t. After starting slow (like you) for form I can now do squats at 225# for 5x15 at 115 pounds.0 -
. Basically, she said I need to start with core and stability work because without that how am I going to pick things up?
because that's what EVERY trainer says.
How are you going to pick things up?
by practicing picking things up.
You don't get better at picking things up by planking.
But I *want* to get better at those things, I should have specified. I'm not comfortable lifting a barbell right now because I can't, and I can't with proper form.
the only way you get better at it- is by doing it. use a broomstick and work on mobility.
Yes- "core work" and "stability" will help- but so will just trying to do those actual things you want to do.
I'm aware of that, but I do all those lifts, just with lower weight dumb bells. I still get deadlfts, weighted squats, ohp, etc. in, just not with a barbell. I don't see how that's an issue. I prefer it, I'm intimidated by the barbell right now and until I reach a point where it doesn't make sense for my ability level to do dumb bell work, I'm fine with that.
Maybe my experiences with my trainer aren't pertinent to the thread and I should have figured that out. But I'm losing inches with her, happy and comfortable, and making progress. So.
Dumbbell workout should never stop. If I could I would deadlift like 150-160 pound dumbbells if they were at the gym. Using the barbell sometimes ends up with uneven muscles.0 -
so I had a first session with a trainer earlier this week, and while mine was not this negative about SL, I could tell that she definitely would prefer to be tailoring some sort of custom program.
OMG. A personal trainer had the nerve to try and design a program tailored to your needs and your current abilities??
Quelle horror!!
Obviously, this "trainer" has not gotten the memo that her job is just to give you a stronglifts handout and count to 5.0 -
I like the notion that you have to do something to get better at it but at the end of the day I can't help think about the beginning of Hoosiers when all the players wanted to scrimmage and the coach started them off doing all sorts of tangential drills to reinforce the fundamentals. You've had a fitness assessment. Ask your trainer about the assessment and what is lacking that needs to be addressed before he believes you are fit enough to do your desired program, what his program design consists of and how it prepares you for the basic lifts of your program.
I've used New Rules of Lifting and New Rules of Lifting Supercharged. Both advocate squats and deadlifts but neither recommend them at the beginning for an out-of-shape used-to-be or a novice. Instead, the authors suggest starting with squat-motion and hinge-motion activities that strengthen the essential muscles and that are more endurance and muscle memory-based. There could be anywhere from a few weeks to a few months of these types of workouts depending on the readers starting level, goals and progress.0 -
I would squat & dead lift but start very light - maybe just the bar - or body weight squats. Straight leg deadlifts & good mornings are great to strengthen the posterior chain - get some instruction on proper form first. They are not dangerous if done properly. Eastcoast Jim
Thanks! I am almost wondering if he started me too heavy to "prove me wrong".
Yeah, that's kinda my feeling too; seems he was trying to prove a point. My first time doing deads it was a 15# body bar to get form. You will feel deadlifts in your lower back, but it should be the muscle group you're feeling. It took me a while to learn the difference between what it feels like to work your lower back correctly. It was disconcerting at first.
I went through a few dud trainers before I found someone who worked well with me. He's a former competitive body builder, and is a fricken stickler for form. I only get to go heavier when my form is p.e.r.f.e.c.t. After starting slow (like you) for form I can now do squats at 225# for 5x15 at 115 pounds.
Yeah. I started at 75#. After doing some reading and asking around, that was seems like a ridiculous amount to start with. Tomorrow I am going to go back and use one of the body bars.
When we had our pre-training session I was upfront that this is what I wanted to do. I didn't ever let him think I wanted some kind of personalized program. I bought four sessions and said "I'd like to so Workouts A&B 2X each with you so I can make sure my form is right and have someone there to answer my questions." and then we talked about how once I moved up into really heavy weights I would probably buy some supp lessons to make sure I was still keeping form as I progressed. So yesterday when I showed up, it was weird that all of a sudden he had misgivings.0
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