I have noticed some saying weight loss surgery is a tool.

Or you can leave it in the pocket of the corporation, who will pay it out to the "investment class", who will hoard it in offshore accounts rather than having it participate in circulation. These people are not the "job creators", they are the resource-hoarders who act as gatekeepers standing between the "invention class" and the tools and resources of production.

Do these corporations you work for know you think they're hoarders? Corporations exist to make money. They pay out salaries of the minimum necessary to get the work performed, and try to pay as little taxes as possible because they need to make money. Let me guess, you think taxation is investment too.

I don't know what your background is in this material, but I have years of experience in high-tech companies including pre-ipo startups that tap into the self-described "job creators" for investment, an engineering degree, and an MBA. So I have a pretty strong practical and educational background in this stuff--including basic principles of macro-economics which are not politically spun and not the propaganda of any particular news source or political party.

Hey, sounds like my background, except for the MBA, except the economy is continually driven into the crapper by MBAs, so I don't think I'm missing out on much.

So yeah, I am an expert, and this is my opinion. Yours seems driven by FOX news propaganda and ignorance of macro-economic principles.

Anyone referring to a mainstream media outlet as propaganda is a partisan shill.

Look, I'm not sure if you've ever looked at the Fed Z1 and the BEA's GDP stuff. The economy since the 80's has basically been driven by expansions in government, corporate, and private debt. If your multiplier was anywhere close to reality we should have seen a 70% growth in GDP, after factoring out increasing debt, for all the social spending over the past 30 years. It's not there. I'm not even getting into the validity of social programs, but you can't create money from nothing. If you tax Peter to buy groceries for Paul what that data shows in practical terms is that Peter was forced to charge on his credit card to make up for the lost income. That's not a multiplier, unless you think debt doesn't matter, in which case you apparently are a Congressperson.

My opinion:

Whatever works; work it.


I'm not one of those people who believe just because something worked for me it is the right thing for others.

I kind of cringe when I hear people say " I lost it the hard way ". That sounds more like a person bragging that they have won some virtuous competition or something.

If a person is able to attain the level of health they desire, well, more power to them. As long as it isn't unhealthy or dangerous.

Just as when someone quits smoking; some can do it 'cold turkey', some use nicotine replacement therapies or medications. Who cares HOW they do it...it is being quit that is important.

I have LOTS of opinion about TOOLS: like SURGERY and TOOLS who post ignorant crap on the internet.
Is it an easy out? No. It's a wonderful tool that is helping ME to do what i could not do on my own, along with counseling, nutritional advice, and exercise. I will always have to work hard to maintain any weight loss, the only thing is that now my stomach is smaller and does not allow me to overeat the way that I did. The rapid weight loss in the beginning allowed me to start moving and exercising. I'm happy, I paid for the surgery out of pocket, and don't think it's any of your damn business what other people do. Worried about tax dollars? Write your Congressman.

I love this answer!

"Understand, but what keeps them from eating 1900 calories and starting an exercise program? If they are large, they got that way from eating unhealthy and to much and no exercise (most of them). Since they have to follow a strict program with surgery why can't they start that without the surgery? Many on here do and are successful."

I guess the quote thing didn't work on my reply post. I was replying to the above post.

There are people with hormone-related issues, many are undiagnosed, that interfere with weight loss. PCOS has been mentioned in this thread. Also, thyroid disorder and pituitary disorders. The symptoms of these diseases are generally subtle with the most obvious symptom being weight gain, which is pretty difficult to detect from the difference from non-disease related weight gain.

No one is required to provide anyone else their own personal medical history. It is up to a physician to determine if an individual's case qualifies for WLS.

People make too many damn assumptions! You don't know what anyone's situation is, and just because you can lose weight, doesn't mean that you should assume that everyone can. Or that anyone opting for WLS is looking for an easy way out. Most people do treat it like a last resort.

true stastic

Consider this...I've been eating a 1500cal a day diet for over year (less than that a lot of day but that's a nice average) basically eat veggies and fish. I've chronic pain and it's hard to exercise (a failing I'm trying to overcome at the moment) but yet even eating extremely healthy I've put on 15lbs in the last year.

I'm not saying everyone who has WLS has a medical condition. But how can you judge someone if you don't know their circumstances?

I'm in the process of taking charge of my health, of trying to identify what's going on because for me A+B doesn't equal C.

Be kind to people you don't know their path or their journey.

Unless you at 3'11" and 86 pounds, that math doesn't add up.

Either you're not estimating your caloric intake and expenditure correctly (very likely), or you have a undiagnosed medical condition.

Exactly the point I was trying to make. I do, a couple actually, and in the process of getting healthy so that A+B does equal C.

But say I didn't get the medical help I needed until I was 500lbs and the situation was dire, and extreme measures were needed, would you condemn me to die because I had an undiagnosed medical condition for most of my life? (I've been undiagnosed for at least 15 years)

I've chosen to eat healthy and when people would question how I could eat so healthy when I didn't see any results my response is always, imagine how I would look if I didn't.

There is never a black and white answer, it is wrong, it's a crutch? And without knowing the exact circumstances in each case we can't judge. WLS is something at this point in my life I personally would not consider but I can't say it isn't the correct choice for some people.

I guess I don't understand that logic. I find MFP and exercise programs to be tools. I find surgery as a last ditch effort for someone who cannot get their mind and body in sync. I have nothing against it if its your choice, but for all the people that have busted their butts doing it the healthy lifestyle way I consider surgery an easy out. You thoughts?

I don't think weight loss surgery is a tool..The treadmill is a tool...I think obesity is caused by a state of mind as well as habit, lifestyle and lack of motivation and having surgery doesn't change any of those things. many people who have weight loss surgery end up replacing one addiction with another.

I guess I don't understand that logic. I find MFP and exercise programs to be tools. I find surgery as a last ditch effort for someone who cannot get their mind and body in sync. I have nothing against it if its your choice, but for all the people that have busted their butts doing it the healthy lifestyle way I consider surgery an easy out. You thoughts?

I don't think weight loss surgery is a tool..The treadmill is a tool...I think obesity is caused by a state of mind as well as habit, lifestyle and lack of motivation and having surgery doesn't change any of those things. many people who have weight loss surgery end up replacing one addiction with another.

And if they use that treadmill, and don't address the issue that got them obese in the first place, what's going to happen? They're going to end up right back where they started from. Obese. The same with WLS. Did you read my post about my husband's journey? If he did not change his entire LIFE- his thinking, his eating habits, his exercise habits- what would've happened? He would've been right back where he started from.

I've lost 175lbs without any form of WLS, and most of it was BEFORE he went in for surgery. I didn't have this sanctimonious, "well, I lost all this weight on my own, honey! Why can't you do it, too!" attitude. I realize every person is different. I know that I don't know what goes on in another person's head or body. Just because at 24, 5'8, and 400lbs I was able to swim and play tennis, doesn't mean another woman with the same stats can. That's simply presumptuous of me to think that because I can do something, everyone can.

Before my husband went into surgery, we went through several education courses about the surgery, what to expect, what the surgery was, what it did, and how things would change. He had to undergo a psych evaluation to even see if he was a candidate for the surgery. Before AND after surgery, he attended and still attends the bariatric support group. Not every person that goes in for WLS surgery is a food addict, nor is every person that's obese been addicted to food- I certainly wasn't. I can tell you my addictions of choice- smoking and shopping. I'd gladly go without food for the rest of my life for an unlimited supply of Marlboro Lights Menthol and credit card with no limit. I also have the good sense to know neither of those are any good for me. I've almost been 24 hours without a cigarette, and I don't use credit cards unsupervised (another story in and of itself).

A person with issues, no matter what they are, if they don't get to the root of the cause, it will always rear it's ugly head, again.

I've read some of these responses on here and it seems like this thread was started to bash people who have made the choice to have WLS. Many people don't understand that there are medical issues which does make it nearly impossible to lose weight without medication. Some people also get so big that they do need WLS to kick start their transformation. It's easy to put others down when you don't have a medical condition or any lack of knowledge about some that cause weight gain or make it very difficult to lose weight and for that I feel bad for those who lack understanding due to their own ignorance. I was one of those people until I realized that I have a medical problem that makes it difficult for me to lose weight without medication.

For some people you do have the will power to lose 100+lbs without WLS and that is amazing, maybe someone opting for WLS doesn't have as much will power as you but that doesn't make their choice a bad one either, it just means they are simply taking a different route to healthiness.

For those of you who have had or are considering WLS, don't let any bullies put you down for making your choice. You know what is best for you and your health!

I guess I don't understand that logic. I find MFP and exercise programs to be tools. I find surgery as a last ditch effort for someone who cannot get their mind and body in sync. I have nothing against it if its your choice, but for all the people that have busted their butts doing it the healthy lifestyle way I consider surgery an easy out. You thoughts?

My thought: Da fuc do you care for?

Wow,
I don't think having a surgery is any kind of an easy way out. As a culture we are way to worried about other peoples' lives.
A person having weight loss surgery might cost us tax money but so do the complications from obesity. There are plenty of more ridiculous things tax money is spent on.

Jim, Billie, Typhon -

Thank you. You have served as excellent reminders and motivators for me to be mindful of why I am on this journey, and why, no matter how much I lose, I will continue to offer only support and kindness to everyone I meet here. Your comments make it clear that the only back stories you care to know are your own, and that yours is the only correct way of doing things; I will certainly not waste your time or mine trying to dissuade you from that. What I will do is offer this reminder in turn: Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting their own battle. And remember that whether you have 40 or 400 lbs to lose, whether you do it with surgery or without, there are always going to be others in the world who will look upon you with derision and scorn for having to lose anything at all, simply because they have never stood in your shoes. You can argue all you wish that you did things the "right" way and that you've accepted responsibility for your shortcomings, but it won't matter. You will still be "other", just as you look at those who are not you as "other". Congratulations on your success, and may you gain nothing but compassion and kindness as you continue to lose your weight.

Best,

Tara

That may be the most eloquent, well written, surreptitious way I've ever had anyone tell me to f*** off before.

Well done. I almost missed it in all the flowery language.

The fact is there are a lot of folks to whom our perspective about the validity of most weight loss surgeries is like rubbing salt in a wound and are reacting forcefully as a result (as to be expected). And there are a lot of mollycoddlers rushing to defend them and attack us in turn.

The fact still remains that while undergoing weight loss surgery is certainly not the easy way out (major surgery and a long, painful recovery is hardly easy) or necessarily "cheating" (I never understood exactly how that line of thought works), it is most of the time completely unnecessary and opens up its patients to a wide range of medical risks in the short and long term.

I'll keep saying it, because I know there are those on MFP who want to believe that getting a lap band or bypass is some kind of magic pill or will dramatically give them a jump start. It won't, in and of itself.

You still have to put the work in! You still have to watch your calories! You still have to learn new nutrition habits! Your body will still burn through the same amount of calories as before. You don't naturally lose more weight or burn more fat just because your stomach physiologically smaller. Biology doesn't work that way.

If it's the support network, structure, and guidance that the preparation and aftercare of a weight loss procedure that you really need, then use that money on going to see a therapist and a nutritionist. Schedule regular, ongoing time with a quality, experienced personal trainer.

If you think you have to get WLS as a way to force you into changing, then that strikes me as an exhorbitantly more expensive and dangerous version of "I bought a smaller sized dress for this wedding/party/vacation, and I have to lose weight to look good in it!" - it's not a mindset that will sustain long term change.

Don't fit into your new dress at the end of three months? Well, oops. Have major surgery and you still don't change your ways? That's much more significant.

Unless you have legitimate medical condition, then you probably don't need a weight loss procedure like a band or bypass. "Oh, I've been on so many diets and failed them all" is not a legitimate need. That's an issue I hear brought up time and time again as justification for WLS, but if we're all honest, that's a psychological issue, not something physiological.

Otherwise, you're subjecting yourself to major surgery for reasons that can be avoided by the diligent care of psychologists, nutritionists, and the dedication to our betterment.

But then again, I'm apparently just a big ole meanie. If you'll excuse me, I've got some kids' milk money I need to go steal. Might tell them all that Santa isn't real while I'm at it.

Back to your regularly scheduled MFP, everyone.

Sometimes there is a 5 yr old child that horrible dark things happened to. Things she told no one about, not even her wonderful caring family. In her stress and anxiety she found food made her feel better. Her body hid the weight quite well and no one noticed until one day they did. Then every meal she was under scrutiny and restricted. She began to eat and hoard food in secrecy. And then one day a relative who meant well said " The boys won't like you if you are fat" ....well that was just fine with her. She grew up never knowing what it felt like to run without her joints aching. Never having a choice of attractive clothing. Never feeling comfortable in her own skin, always overheated and sweating. People would say you will feel so much better when you lose the wt. Just stop eating when you are full but, what does that mean to a person who has never known normal. She would exercise and starve herself down 40 lbs every other year enduring the crippling hunger but of course that wasn't maintainable and she hadn't cured the root of the problem. Then she started cooking all her own food but still her portions were out of control. And every year added 5 more lbs. Then 2 yrs ago she met a very kind priest who was a former physician and he helped her work on the "why" of her food addiction. She quit medicating with food and began to slowly lose wt. Unfortunately she had run out of time and her health began to rapidly decline. She realized that she could die leaving a husband and young child. She started the 6 months of therapy and supervised wt loss to get approval for bariatric surgery.
It is a wonderful feeling to be normal weight for height. To be able to tie your shoes without your vision going spotty. To rush up 3 flights of stairs and not have a wheezing attack. To run and run and run and nothing hurts. To have a brain that is filled with other thoughts instead of unrelenting food obsession. At 45 it is a very new world for me. I world I can only live in if I constantly watch my intake, exercise regularly and abstain from medicating with food. This tool helped someone who had no memory of normal find it again.