TMZ Ray Rice video
Replies
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You have to bring physicality into play. Why else do some people including me say "real men never hit women." So did Mr. Obama. We don't need to.0
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"I'm disappointed. This is personal for me," Ray Lewis said on-air. "I'm torn because this is a guy, a young man, I really took up under my wing and tried to mentor to make sure he had a successful career and stayed away from things like this."
Ok, so accused murderer Ray Lewis mentored Rice, now it all makes sense...0 -
So it would have to be on a case to case basis as to what amount of force, if any, is acceptable in "defending" yourself against a smaller person. Clearly the video shows no weapons and unreasonable force being used. I would barely call the tap she gave him on the way into the elevator a hit. He could have killed her with a punch like that. Then he proceeded to drag her around like a rag doll. It was disgusting and inexcusable to pretty much everyone. Well, I guess she thought it wasn't that bad.0
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His argument being that the guy shouldn't necessarily be charged with assault in this type of case because the woman pushed the guy into it.
The the dumb woman married him, and is now ticked off at the Ravens for firing him. Guess she's just another gold digger.
Really? Is this for real? Like, seriously for real?0 -
How is this even a discussion? Can anyone answer the when it IS appropriate to hit your spouse, which struck me as a pretty odd question.
How about this: if they're mentally gone (on acid, hallucinating, severely ill, turned into a brain-eating zombie, etc.) and being dangerous to themselves or others AND your big boy words aren't working, you may physically detain them / defend yourself.
I don't believe there are any other reasons to hit a spouse. Also, not to sound old school, but guys don't get to hit girls. I don't care if that girl is actually a woman, five times my size, and can bench press me, it's just something I was raised to believe. Sorry if that makes anyone without a Y chromosome feel marginalized or inferior. I don't think you are. It's just the way I (and many others) were raised.0 -
SRSLY?
His side of the debate was that sometimes, women can really push things by just constantly get into a guy's face, and yell and say horrible things to the point where he loses control and hits her. His argument being that the guy shouldn't necessarily be charged with assault in this type of case because the woman pushed the guy into it.
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The the dumb woman married him, and is now ticked off at the Ravens for firing him. Guess she's just another gold digger.0 -
Haa! Now his wife is mad at the media for "ruining" their marriage...or maybe she meant their income. He's clearly hit her in the head one too many times. I wish them well but I don't believe that's the first nor the last hit. Its wrong in my eyes. He should know to walk away rather then take it to the physical extreme and that goes for a woman as well.
This!^
Janay Rice then defiantly claimed her marriage would "continue to grow and show the world what real love is" ....if that's real love....no thanks.0 -
I'm a survivor of domestic abuse, and never at any point in time is any form of abuse acceptable. While my ex never actually laid a finger on me in anger I had things thrown at me or broken around my feet while he screamed at me. The psychological abuse and economic abuse still impact me even now, just over 9 years later.
Please please please don't assume you understand what is going on in her mind and why she is still with him and defending him. It took me two years to get out of my abusive relationship, and during the relationship he spent so much time knocking me down and making me feel unworthy that I on some levels believed it. Abusers are manipulative, and they use it to their advantage at every turn. I had always said that I would never let a guy do that to me, and then it happened to me.
Pointing fingers, or saying you have no sympathy for her does not help, it only makes the abuser more powerful. The amount of shame you feel is staggering. I still feel shame that I let it happen, that I didn't do a better job of standing up for myself. Shame for living that way for any length of time with a child involved. Shame because when I finally got the nerve up to get the hell out I knew I was breaking up my daughters family. The fear of what would happen after I left was almost paralyzing, but I was lucky and had amazing support from family and friends.0 -
What Ray Rice did was wrong. He deserved a longer suspension especially since players are getting suspended for much longer periods of time for WEED of all things.
What the media and what the feminist movement is doing, is in my estimation far worse. This is public shaming gone to a higher level. The man made a mistake in his personal life. What happened to the land of 2nd chances? Isn't forgiveness and acceptance suppose to be a huge part of a democracy? The ban was unnecessary. The shaming of the commissioner(who already admitted he was wrong) is stupid.
Ray Rice is not a victim but boy after seeing all this nonsense from the media and from specific groups of people I can't help but feel sympathy towards the man and his family. Even if he gets help it won't make a bit of difference and that's a real shame.0 -
So much ^this. So much. This is a man who knocked her unconscious and then tried to drag her body out. Without remorse. Do you think any other person wouldn't be terrified to leave? And then she was surrounded by "his people" - manager, agent, lawyers - all probably pushing her to act in HIS interest. And who knows how he may have threatened her financially, physically, emotionally. I cannot judge her. Only all the people who conspired to protect her abuser.
Please please please don't assume you understand what is going on in her mind and why she is still with him and defending him.
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Abusers are manipulative, and they use it to their advantage at every turn. I had always said that I would never let a guy do that to me, and then it happened to me.
Pointing fingers, or saying you have no sympathy for her does not help, it only makes the abuser more powerful. The amount of shame you feel is staggering.0 -
I thinking you have not seen the video. Not that I am defending Ray Rice in anyway but it was not unprovoked. She hit him and spit in his face. If a man had done that and he knocked him out none of us would be talking about it. What he did was wrong but some people respond to things differently. She should not have been provoking him the way she did and from what I have read she was seen in the casino earlier hitting him, again not pointing fingers or blaming her. At some point we all can be pushed to far!! In my opinion girls can get away with more just because they are girls. I know I was brought up to never hit a woman but I'm really starting to believe if you want to act like a man then don't be surprised if your treating like a man!!Let's keep it clean so we can avoid "The Lock" and maybe have some intelligent discussion?
In light of the recently released video of Ray Rice punching and knocking out his then girlfriend:
Do you think a man (or woman for that matter) is ever justified in striking a partner for any reason or is it all abusive no matter what the reasoning?
My husband and I actually had a debate about this last night. Now, we've been married nearly 25 years and he's never struck me and we've had some doozy arguments.
His side of the debate was that sometimes, women can really push things by just constantly get into a guy's face, and yell and say horrible things to the point where he loses control and hits her. His argument being that the guy shouldn't necessarily be charged with assault in this type of case because the woman pushed the guy into it.
My side was that the woman, obviously, is being verbally abusive, and could be charged as such, but there is still no excuse for anyone to hit another person. Even if the guy pisses off the woman and she slaps him, she is still assaulting him and and should be charged.
The Ray Rice video shows a man who, for no apparent reason, punches his then-fiancee in the face and knocks her out cold, kicks her with disregard to her well being and then drags her away, despite the fact that he's obviously strong enough to carry her. The the dumb woman married him, and is now ticked off at the Ravens for firing him. Guess she's just another gold digger.0 -
What Ray Rice did was wrong. He deserved a longer suspension especially since players are getting suspended for much longer periods of time for WEED of all things.
What the media and what the feminist movement is doing, is in my estimation far worse. This is public shaming gone to a higher level. The man made a mistake in his personal life. What happened to the land of 2nd chances? Isn't forgiveness and acceptance suppose to be a huge part of a democracy? The ban was unnecessary. The shaming of the commissioner(who already admitted he was wrong) is stupid.
Ray Rice is not a victim but boy after seeing all this nonsense from the media and from specific groups of people I can't help but feel sympathy towards the man and his family. Even if he gets help it won't make a bit of difference and that's a real shame.
What should happen to you when you punch your girlfriend in the face and knock her out, especially when it is captured on video? Donald Sterling lost his career for running his mouth.
Playing professional football is a privilege, not a right, and the teams and NFL can (and should) certainly end your career if you engage in reprehensible behavior.
And who said he won't get a second chance? This new phase of the controversy is just 1 day old, come on, he has to suffer some sort of consequences for a period of time. Rice will show contrition, continue to get counseling, continue to send his wife out there begging for fairness, and he will get reinstated within the next year or two (Micheal Vick got out of prison and went right back to work, remember?)0 -
I thinking you have not seen the video. Not that I am defending Ray Rice in anyway but it was not unprovoked. She hit him and spit in his face. If a man had done that and he knocked him out none of us would be talking about it. What he did was wrong but some people respond to things differently. She should not have been provoking him the way she did and from what I have read she was seen in the casino earlier hitting him, again not pointing fingers or blaming her. At some point we all can be pushed to far!! In my opinion girls can get away with more just because they are girls. I know I was brought up to never hit a woman but I'm really starting to believe if you want to act like a man then don't be surprised if your treating like a man!!Let's keep it clean so we can avoid "The Lock" and maybe have some intelligent discussion?
In light of the recently released video of Ray Rice punching and knocking out his then girlfriend:
Do you think a man (or woman for that matter) is ever justified in striking a partner for any reason or is it all abusive no matter what the reasoning?0 -
His side of the debate was that sometimes, women can really push things by just constantly get into a guy's face, and yell and say horrible things to the point where he loses control and hits her. His argument being that the guy shouldn't necessarily be charged with assault in this type of case because the woman pushed the guy into it.
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The the dumb woman married him, and is now ticked off at the Ravens for firing him. Guess she's just another gold digger.
My children scream and push my buttons sometimes but that doesn't make it okay to punch and knock them out. Should a woman hit a man? No. He also was not justified in his actions.
Domestic violence is a complicated issue and it's easy to look at her and call her a gold digger or stupid. However, until you are in her shoes it isn't fair to judge her. In our society victims of domestic violence often blame themselves and are blamed by others. They often stay thinking maybe they can make it better. It's easy to say you'd walk away but just like a cheating spouse or other marriage issue it isn't always black and white.0 -
In some comment thread elsewhere it was pointed out that on the way into the elevator it looks as though Rice spits at his girlfriend, or at least leans towards her in a potentially menacing fashion, which is where you see her slap his face. When they get into the elevator there is a similar altercation where it looks like he leans in towards her, and again she smacks at him. Then it goes downhill from there.
Should she have smacked him? No, probably not.
Should he have been provoking? No, probably not.
Did that give him the right to knock her out and drag her out of the elevator? No. No. NO!
Smacks from her or not, his actions were inexcusable. Period. End of story.0 -
You know, statistically speaking, domestic violence tends to escalate. Where does it go once you've reached "knocking unconscious"? As for everyone saying that SHE is at fault (either because she instigated it with her statements to him or because she married him), I wonder what you would say if it resulted in murder? Is it okay then? Because SHE just took it too far?0
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What should happen to you when you punch your girlfriend in the face and knock her out, especially when it is captured on video? Donald Sterling lost his career for running his mouth.
Playing professional football is a privilege, not a right, and the teams and NFL can (and should) certainly end your career if you engage in reprehensible behavior.
And who said he won't get a second chance? This new phase of the controversy is just 1 day old, come on, he has to suffer some sort of consequences for a period of time. Rice will show contrition, continue to get counseling, continue to send his wife out there begging for fairness, and he will get reinstated within the next year or two (Micheal Vick got out of prison and went right back to work, remember?)
To me? Hopefully suspended from work without pay for a few weeks/months, but I would never be in that type of situation. There is no way Ray Rice is getting a 2nd chance. Even if he does get granted permission it won't be for a long time, and he won't be anywhere close to his prime anymore, so no one will even risk signing him. There are plenty of athletes who got 2nd chances(Please don't compare Dog fighting to knocking a woman out cold) but those athletes haven't drastically hurt the public image of the league like this incident has.
Have you seen the media coverage this is getting? Woman are outraged and rightfully so, but they're so outraged that they're calling for heads all over the place. The NFL who cares deeply about their public image is getting slaughtered right now.0 -
I don't think this is a gender thing. Its a human thing. Anyone who escalates a verbal confrontation into a physical confrontation is an idiot.
So, just walk away and end it (?)
YES! YES and more YES! OMG did you see the way he punched that woman? You do not stay with someone like that, then choose to have children with them. Men that do that need to be alone, then maybe, when women stop defending it and putting up with it and making excuses for it, men will stop doing it!
I am a survivor of abuse. Its not easy to walk away but it can be done, I am living proof. And thank GOD I did because the life I have today with a kind and loving man is a million times better than what it would have ever been with that a$$hat I was with before.0 -
I'm a survivor of domestic abuse, and never at any point in time is any form of abuse acceptable. While my ex never actually laid a finger on me in anger I had things thrown at me or broken around my feet while he screamed at me. The psychological abuse and economic abuse still impact me even now, just over 9 years later.
Please please please don't assume you understand what is going on in her mind and why she is still with him and defending him. It took me two years to get out of my abusive relationship, and during the relationship he spent so much time knocking me down and making me feel unworthy that I on some levels believed it. Abusers are manipulative, and they use it to their advantage at every turn. I had always said that I would never let a guy do that to me, and then it happened to me.
Pointing fingers, or saying you have no sympathy for her does not help, it only makes the abuser more powerful. The amount of shame you feel is staggering. I still feel shame that I let it happen, that I didn't do a better job of standing up for myself. Shame for living that way for any length of time with a child involved. Shame because when I finally got the nerve up to get the hell out I knew I was breaking up my daughters family. The fear of what would happen after I left was almost paralyzing, but I was lucky and had amazing support from family and friends.
Thank you for sharing.
I know many women struggle with the same thoughts and feelings you experienced.
I'm glad you were able to get the support you needed to leave
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I'm not buying into the provocation theory.
No one can make you do or say anything.
We are all responsible for our own words and actions.
Do we get mad? Sure.
Do we want to fight back? Absolutely!
Is there some invisible force controlling us, making us argue, fight and hit? No.
We all have a choice to determine what we will do with our lives.
Do we stay in an unhealthy relationship and let it get so out of control that someone ends up dead?
Or do we say, "no thank you", this isn't for me and walk away?
Neither Ray nor Janay were forced to stay in that relationship.
At any point, either one of them could have walked away, and still can.
Is it always easy to leave? No, as we've heard from abuse survivors here on the thread.
It may be an extremely difficult choice.
But it is a choice.
Both men and women can choose to not provoke, to not retaliate, to not abuse and to just walk away.0 -
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What should happen to you when you punch your girlfriend in the face and knock her out, especially when it is captured on video? Donald Sterling lost his career for running his mouth.
Playing professional football is a privilege, not a right, and the teams and NFL can (and should) certainly end your career if you engage in reprehensible behavior.
And who said he won't get a second chance? This new phase of the controversy is just 1 day old, come on, he has to suffer some sort of consequences for a period of time. Rice will show contrition, continue to get counseling, continue to send his wife out there begging for fairness, and he will get reinstated within the next year or two (Micheal Vick got out of prison and went right back to work, remember?)
To me? Hopefully suspended from work without pay for a few weeks/months, but I would never be in that type of situation. There is no way Ray Rice is getting a 2nd chance. Even if he does get granted permission it won't be for a long time, and he won't be anywhere close to his prime anymore, so no one will even risk signing him. There are plenty of athletes who got 2nd chances(Please don't compare Dog fighting to knocking a woman out cold) but those athletes haven't drastically hurt the public image of the league like this incident has.
Have you seen the media coverage this is getting? Woman are outraged and rightfully so, but they're so outraged that they're calling for heads all over the place. The NFL who cares deeply about their public image is getting slaughtered right now.
Punching women is bad. Killing dogs is bad. The NFL doesn't like any of that. In the eyes of the law, what Rice did was much less serious than what Vick did, hence Rice is not going to jail for several years (I think he cannot be tried because he plea bargained the charge down by attending counseling), nor is he getting sued in civil court, because he is married to the victim. If he keeps himself in shape and has something to offer an NFL team, Rice will be back, possibly by next season.0 -
Just wanted to add a few bits of info:
Janay Rice was also arrested for assault for the incident being discussed
They have a child together which may party explain the reluctance to leave/wanting to work it out0 -
Just wanted to add a few bits of info:
Janay Rice was also arrested for assault for the incident being discussed
They have a child together which may party explain the reluctance to leave/wanting to work it out
It is true that many times the woman is not innocent either, but two wrongs don't make a right.
I can also understand that women stay for many reasons including their children and finances.
But for the union to be of any benefit to the child, they both need counseling so their child does not grow up in a war zone thinking it's okay to hit and be hit.
Functional spouses in healthy marriages don't hit each other.0 -
Let's keep it clean so we can avoid "The Lock" and maybe have some intelligent discussion?
In light of the recently released video of Ray Rice punching and knocking out his then girlfriend:
Do you think a man (or woman for that matter) is ever justified in striking a partner for any reason or is it all abusive no matter what the reasoning?
Only to defend their life.
However, In Ray Rice's case, there is no excuse. He could walk away if his then-fiance had attacked him.0 -
Just wanted to add a few bits of info:
Janay Rice was also arrested for assault for the incident being discussed
They have a child together which may party explain the reluctance to leave/wanting to work it out
It is true that many times the woman is not innocent either, but two wrongs don't make a right.
I can also understand that women stay for many reasons including their children and finances.
But for the union to be of any benefit to the child, they both need counseling so their child does not grow up in a war zone thinking it's okay to hit and be hit.
Functional spouses in healthy marriages don't hit each other.
I agree with you. Just wanted to post that info because I saw lots of people say she should be in trouble/held responsible for her part and people saying how could she stay.0 -
I agree, only to defend the life of one's self or others.
Only a Coward would strike a Woman! Doesn't matter what she says or does to make him angry!0 -
Obviously domestic violence isn't ok no matter the situation. If you have functioning legs then nothing is holding you back from walking away. He wasn't defending his life, it's about a man with no self control. Unless your life is in danger and she was yielding a life threatening weapon then there's no reason to put your hands on someone. Period.
I think the elevator doors were preventing him from walking away.
If she's yielding the weapon, there's no need to hit her ...
What if they both like it rough and that was just foreplay?0 -
I don't think this is a gender thing. Its a human thing. Anyone who escalates a verbal confrontation into a physical confrontation is an idiot.
YES0 -
I think it's pretty simple, gender aside, nobody should be hitting NOBODY.
Keep your damn hands to yourself-- no matter what the situation.
Maybe she pushed his buttons-- maybe she didn't no excuse for physical abuse for a man or woman.0
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