Give me the straight dope about sodium

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  • tgh1914
    tgh1914 Posts: 1,036 Member
    Well, I should add that I'm certainly in agreement with all the warnings & data posted in this thread about the risks of hypertension, heart disease and so forth. My original post/original thread was more about how we as individuals are all a little different and some of the pre-set guidelines in MFP are not equally applicable to all.

    That said though, my high sodium intake may be ok for me and definitely not for another. In fact, I've always had really good blood pressure and a low pulse, even when I wasn't as much into exercising & eating right. When I wasn't working out my resting heart rate would hover around 60 bpm (normally considered quite healthy); now it's more like 40 bpm. I know genetics has some to do with this. So it's definitely different for everyone.

    Exactly!! The flipside, though...you might be fine with a high sodium diet now. Down the road, it could start taking a toll on your body. Then again, you may be a lucky one. :)
    That's very true, and is why I get regular blood pressure tests. :smile:
  • SaraTonin
    SaraTonin Posts: 551 Member
    You do sweat out salt, so if you're working out like a horse it would make sense that you might need more than 500mg a day (the recommended minimum).

    I have a friend who tested LOW for sodium. I don't know how, as he eats fast food and canned food for at least half of his meals. He also has a specific heart condition (several surgeries as a baby), that is very rare and probably affects it.
  • HealthiHannah
    HealthiHannah Posts: 182 Member
    Hmm, now you guys are making me think that tracking blood pressure regularly might be something worth doing, just like we track weight, body fat %, resting heart rate, etc....

    Its really only necessary if you don't go to the doctor for regular check ups. Your blood pressure will fluctuate daily but not in unhealthy amounts. If you get it checked regularly at the doctor, they will be able to see trends to know if there is a problem.
  • ladyhawk00
    ladyhawk00 Posts: 2,457 Member
    It may be that Tharrop has particularly kick *kitten* kidneys, works out and sweats a lot, gets a lot of potassium, and has a sodium genie hidden in his closet. :tongue: Really, though, it is genetics, environment, other food choices, etc etc ad nauseum that will effect how efficient your body is at dealing with sodium.

    Some people deal with it very well, others not so much. If you don't have cardiac, BP or kidney issues, I wouldn't be horribly concerned if you are going over by a moderate amount (say 500). But I'd also want at least a general check up and a few blood tests (such as Tharrop had) to verify that those things aren't issues before giving a pass on it.

    To me, one of the key issues here though is WHERE is that sodium coming from. To me (aside from the above mentioned medical issues) sodium is a SYMPTOM of something else - eating things that aren't too healthy. Yes, whole foods contain some sodium, but if your diet is pretty clean, without a lot of processed stuff, then your sodium isn't going to be all that high. If you have a lot of processed stuff, it's going to be higher. Most of the time, if I look at a diary and ONLY look at sodium levels, I can tell you what kind of stuff they're eating. That's certainly not the only factor, but I think it's something to look at as far as what the sources of sodium are. So, take that for what it's worth. :wink:
  • kelika71
    kelika71 Posts: 778 Member
    It may be that Tharrop has particularly kick *kitten* kidneys, works out and sweats a lot, gets a lot of potassium, and has a sodium genie hidden in his closet. :tongue: Really, though, it is genetics, environment, other food choices, etc etc ad nauseum that will effect how efficient your body is at dealing with sodium.

    Some people deal with it very well, others not so much. If you don't have cardiac, BP or kidney issues, I wouldn't be horribly concerned if you are going over by a moderate amount (say 500). But I'd also want at least a general check up and a few blood tests (such as Tharrop had) to verify that those things aren't issues before giving a pass on it.

    To me, one of the key issues here though is WHERE is that sodium coming from. To me (aside from the above mentioned medical issues) sodium is a SYMPTOM of something else - eating things that aren't too healthy. Yes, whole foods contain some sodium, but if your diet is pretty clean, without a lot of processed stuff, then your sodium isn't going to be all that high. If you have a lot of processed stuff, it's going to be higher. Most of the time, if I look at a diary and ONLY look at sodium levels, I can tell you what kind of stuff they're eating. That's certainly not the only factor, but I think it's something to look at as far as what the sources of sodium are. So, take that for what it's worth. :wink:

    LMAO @ sodium genie!! Dang it! I want one!! hahaha Hell, I NEED one!!
  • ashahl
    ashahl Posts: 81
    Not completely related but… I would caution people to be really careful about the amount of water they consume as well. I was diagnosed with polydipsia (obsessive water drinking) a couple of years ago. I started to obsessively drink approximately 5 -8 liters of water a day and eventually became really sick because it was washing out all of my salts and wreaking havoc on my kidneys. I was put on salt tablets and was forced to cut down my intake under threat of hospitalization.
    …So having a bad salt day and trying to completely drown it out with excessive amounts of water isn't healthy either. Be careful :)
  • PrairieRoseNE
    PrairieRoseNE Posts: 265 Member
    Very informative post!!
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
    Interesting article re sodium

    http://www.t-nation.com/article/diet_and_nutrition/sodium_your_secret_weapon&cr=

    Some points:

    A low-sodium diet makes the situation even worse in regard to optimum electrolyte metabolism, because potassium is dependent on sodium to be effective for a number of reasons. Potassium's primary responsibilities are the regulation and control of skeletal and cardiac muscles. The vagus nerve, which controls heartbeat, is totally dependent on potassium.

    Potassium is the positively charged ion inside of the cell. While its independent functions in the control of muscles have been pointed out, potassium itself is dependent on sodium to maintain cell integrity: the exact balance of cations and ions inside and outside cell walls.

    How does potassium get into the muscle cell in the first place? Sodium delivers it.

    150-pound athletes (both male and female) who train at high intensity levels should drink at least two or three liters of water per day. 200-pound athletes should be drinking a minimum of three to four liters, and athletes over 225 pounds should drink a minimum of four to six liters.

    At two grams per liter of fluid replacement, it's obvious that most athletes do not take in nearly enough sodium. For example, a 225-pound athlete would need to ingest between eight and twelve grams of sodium daily. That's right, 8,000 to 12,000 mg a day.

    Water retention is temporary, and will dissipate as long as sodium and water intake remain high. The athlete will then notice a higher volume of urinary output, more sweating, the appearance of a leaner, harder physique, and more pumped and full muscles in the gym.
  • lilmissy2
    lilmissy2 Posts: 595 Member
    On weight gain - water retention has nothing to do with fat you are losing, in case you didn't already know that. It doesn't look good on the scale though. Unless you have a kidney problem, the point where you reach 'equilibrium' as you call it shouldn't be too far away. Water retention can potentially be a lot but water retention due to sodium is unlikely to be a lot because of the way sodium is processed in the body - the majority will just be flushed out by the kidneys.

    On blood pressure - sodium has been shown to have an effect but a low sodium diet alone will not prevent high blood pressure. The high blood pressure is caused by the increased blood volume - a combination of salt and water. So no, drinking the extra water after having a lot of sodium does not make things better. To put things into perspective - in terms of the effect of lifestyle related things on blood pressure, it goes something like: exercise has a 35% effect, weight loss has a 20% effect, sodium has a 5% effect (in those who are affected by sodium which isn't everybody). Also, I should mention that the studies where positive effect on blood pressure are seen are using a sodium level of 40-60mmol (about 1000mg) per day.

    On electrolyte levels - these should not really be affected no matter how much sodium you eat. It does not measure the amount in your body, only the amount in your blood at the time you are tested. Your body is very good at regulating itself, if you need fluid then you will get thirsty. If you don't drink then it will get the water from somewhere else in your body for the blood and you will get thirstier. If you still don't drink then you will get dehydrated but your electrolytes might still be in normal range.

    There is still debate on whether the potassium to sodium ratio outweighs the actual number of sodium. It is the potassium to sodium ratio that affects your heart activity, not so much the sodium amount itself but still, it hasn't been proven that increasing potassium is as beneficial as controlling sodium.

    Hope that helps
  • Wightvixen
    Wightvixen Posts: 117
    Aside from other health issues (high blood pressure etc) I think the water retention element varies from person to person. Some people blow up at the drop of a hat, and others like myself never seem to have a problem with it, regardless of what we eat, the time of the month, pregnancy or whatever. There must be a genetic element involved.
  • wolfchild59
    wolfchild59 Posts: 2,608 Member
    Just an anecdote - I've always been a salt addict for as long as I can remember. As in, drinking soy sauce straight from the bottle, pouring seasoned salt into my hand to eat it, putting salt on my watermelon, etc. type of loving salt. In high school, my best friend and i, being the stupid, bored teenagers that we were, would mess around at a local shiopping center after school. This center had a McDonald's and a drug store witha blood pressure machine.

    So, we'd go to the store, get our blood pressure checked and then head to McDonald's. We'd order and eat our normal (one McChicken sandwich meal that we'd split - it came out to $3.24 at the time and we'd split the cost on it to afford it. lol) But then we'd take out the handfulls of salt packets we'd grabbed while waiting for the food. We'd then lay it out in lines like little rows of salt cocaine. Grab our fat McDonald's straws and suck up and eat all of the rows of salt as quickly as possible (it was a race).

    After we ate all the food and salt, we'd head straight back to the drug store and retest our blood pressure. It was always more than amusing to see all the crazy numbers it would spike up to so quickly after the abuse we'd just done to our bodies.

    Mind you, at heart I'm still a salt addict and would gladly go to my fridge right at this moment and take a big ole swig of soy sauce, I just behave now, no matter how much it sucks. Heck, I can't even remember the last time I used my soy sauce, or any soy sauce. Even the last two times I got sushi (the only two times in many months), I didn't even use soy sauce with my rolls. >.<
  • humblemonkey
    humblemonkey Posts: 576 Member
    Ok I have to get this out there too!!
    GATORADE IS NOT GOD.
    If you sweat EXCESSIVELY, you will lose electrolytes, therefore you should up your intake of HEALTHY things to replace them. Bananas for potassium, water, green leafy veggies for potassium and iron and vitamins, and MILK to add some calcium. GATORADE however is probably one of the most over-used products without people questioning the true value of it... In fact, research has been done that drinking a 12 oz glass of chocolate milk is 140% better post-workout than drinking the same amount of gatorade. Why?? Because gatorade is chock full of sugar and a bunch of unnatural additives. ESPECIALLY if you're looking to lose weight, gatorade is NOT your friend.
    What's more is that if you're working out and getting very hot, the sugar in gatorade is actually even more unhealthy. When I work at the infirmary for the baseball camp over the summer, we tell all the coaches to not let their players drink gatorade when they're feeling ill. Before we did this, we had one kid after another coming in vomiting after downing a Gatorade post-game. Even cutting Gatorade 2 parts water and 1 part Gatorade would be significantly better.
  • MBSNANA
    MBSNANA Posts: 150 Member
    Sodium is one of the things I have to watch. Every morning I take a dirutic that my doctor perscribed along with pottasium. Large amounts of sodium does [for me] retain fluid. Then I have had people tell me to drink lots of water to flush it out. That does not work for me. My fluid is retained in my legs from years of blood clots. If I eat high amounts of sodium then try to flush it out with water I am just putting the water in but it does not "come back out" even with the dirutics. The only thing that starts it coming back out is to lower the sodim I am taking in and it will start to move. I am just blowned away by the things that have sodium in them. Baby carrots? That was a shocker. Not really that much but when you are watching sodium it all starts to add up. Interesting topic. Enjoyed reading everybodys response to this one.
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