Atkins Diet Revisited
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amusedmonkey wrote: »
It's funny how some people get defensive about their diet as if someone is insulting their loved ones even when it's not being attacked. I could go on and comment on every point you made but I don't feel the need to, because it boils down to one thing: it's easier for most people, socially and otherwise, to not have any restriction for the types of food they are allowed to eat. For those who find it easier to live with restrictions, a restrictive diet is a better choice.
I don't even follow Atkins, but give me a break.
I don't believe that calling you out on misstatements makes me defensive, and I certainly wouldn't say it's my diet, as per my statement that you quoted - my current diet isn't even close to a standard Atkins diet. For that matter, I've never followed the Atkins diet, although I do have friends that did and had success on it. I'd make the same type of corrections if you demonstrated the same level of misunderstanding when it came to other nutrition and exercise science topics. It's akin to someone saying "IIFYM causes you eat too much protein" - to anyone who understands IIFYM, such a statement simply demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the diet and it's not "defensive" to call them out on such a statement.0 -
Atkins, like counting calories, like low fat, like jenny Craig, like Weight Watchers, like etc...if you don't make the commitment to make lifestyle changes, will not work. If you eat HFLC until you lose a bunch of weight, then return to the manner in which you where eating prior to the "diet" then gain all the weight back then the 'diet' failed. Wrong, you failed to maintain a healthy lifestyle. I hate it when people blame the wrong things for their failures. I can't consume gluten so HFLC was the natural choice for me. I've been moderately successful, but I haven't been following to the letter. Even on the days that I consume more carbs than I should I feel good about the choices that I make. Off to eat my low carb salad with grilled chicken breasts. Because everyone know that salad and chicken breast are so bad for you. ( had to finish with a little sarcasm)0
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amusedmonkey wrote: »AlanaTedmon wrote: »do the foods really make you smell after a period of time?? I've never heard of that!
Only if you're in ketosis. You would need to be very vigilant with your oral and body hygiene on such a diet. I've known quite a few people who struggled with bad breath and sweat that smells like pee.
The only person I know that followed the Atkins diet had chronically bad breath. He was meticulous with the rest of his grooming so I think he just couldn't tell anymore. And I'm pretty sure that he increased his carb level after the induction phase.
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AlanaTedmon wrote: »It really does have a very long list of restrictions but do the foods really make you smell after a period of time?? I've never heard of that!
Made up nonsense, that's why.
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LosinMama1966 wrote: »Not made up nonsense...it's true. I know someone that did have extremely bad breath while on Atkins...
While that may happen to some people, especially if they overdo the protein, it is not an inevitability. I know people with bad breath who aren't on Atkins - I don't blame their diet.
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amusedmonkey wrote: »
It's funny how some people get defensive about their diet as if someone is insulting their loved ones even when it's not being attacked. I could go on and comment on every point you made but I don't feel the need to, because it boils down to one thing: it's easier for most people, socially and otherwise, to not have any restriction for the types of food they are allowed to eat. For those who find it easier to live with restrictions, a restrictive diet is a better choice.
I don't even follow Atkins, but give me a break.
I don't believe that calling you out on misstatements makes me defensive, and I certainly wouldn't say it's my diet, as per my statement that you quoted - my current diet isn't even close to a standard Atkins diet. For that matter, I've never followed the Atkins diet, although I do have friends that did and had success on it. I'd make the same type of corrections if you demonstrated the same level of misunderstanding when it came to other nutrition and exercise science topics. It's akin to someone saying "IIFYM causes you eat too much protein" - to anyone who understands IIFYM, such a statement simply demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the diet and it's not "defensive" to call them out on such a statement.
Alright then, let's go through what I said.
Do you deny a birthday party - for example - is not very comfortable for the dieter or the host if the person does not participate in the cake ritual? Some make peace with that, but most can't.
Do you deny that moderation, with certain non-drastic macro adjustments fits a wider range of health concerns?
Do you deny that most people who follow Atkins spend most of their time in phase 2, where carbs are rarely over 50, which happens to fall into the ketogenic range for some?
Do you deny that even after re-introducing carbs, and even in phase 3, you still have "No" foods? Long term here is meant "for the length of your weight loss efforts". A diet one can stick to is a successful diet, and for most people not being able to have their choice of food may cause premature quitting.
OP mentioned her ability to eat cheese and mayo as a plus. Do you deny that being able to eat cheese and mayo AND potatoes is a more attractive choice for most?
Nothing is absolutely necessary for weight loss other than being in a deficit. My statement there is directed at the "no pain no gain" mentality, thinking that success only comes if things are hard. It's not necessary for people to make things harder then they need to be to lose weight. Now for those who feel Atkins is easier, that's a different story.
My last statement was merely a general observation and one of the reasons Atkins gets attacked sometimes - which was OP's question.
The whole point of this all: if Atkin is the easiest weight loss method for someone they should go with it to guarantee their success. For the majority of people, though, it's not. So if someone falls into the latter category, they shouldn't feel obliged to do it.0 -
I don't have any ammunition to bad-mouth the Atkins diet. It's one approach of many that you can take.
I think where the criticism comes in is because there are a lot of claims of losing weight fast with Atkins, but I think most of those results are based on loss of water weight after newly going low carb. Then if/when they start carbs again, back comes the water weight, and they could be back where they started.
As with any diet, what matters is still calories in vs. calories out, the favorite mantra around here. Atkins might be something that helps you manage your calories, and therefore your weight, better. Just be aware that the success you'll have early on is mostly water going bye-bye.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Only if you're in ketosis. You would need to be very vigilant with your oral and body hygiene on such a diet. I've known quite a few people who struggled with bad breath and sweat that smells like pee.
Excessive protein = ammonia smell. Not doing it right :-)
A smell that originates in the lungs is nothing to do with oral hygiene.
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amusedmonkey wrote: »
Do you deny a birthday party - for example - is not very comfortable for the dieter or the host if the person does not participate in the cake ritual? Some make peace with that, but most can't.
Do you deny that moderation, with certain non-drastic macro adjustments fits a wider range of health concerns?
As I'm not a gregarious kid, birthday parties don't feature highly in my life. I do notice that dieters in general are uncomfortable with the situations you describe, due to the sugar / fat / calories or other concern.
"Moderation" doesn't work for many - including alcoholics and smokers. Some are like this with sugars and carbs. The health benefits of carbohydrate restriction compared to the SAD may not appear in some middle ground, if indeed that has been tested. Improved lipid profiles etc in low carb are improved compared to both baseline and the calorie restricted SAD alternative.
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AlanaTedmon wrote: »I'm curious to know where the Atkins diet gets so much flack sometimes. I started it this week and I love it. You don't get cravings inbetween meals and you always feel full and happy! High-fat and high-protein is awesome! I'm burning off fat while eating cheese and mayo. What's not to love?
Because a lot of people really like carbs. And, frankly, there's nothing wrong with that. The trick is finding the right thing for you for the long term. Low carbing is grand if you can keep it up. So is any "diet."0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »
It's funny how some people get defensive about their diet as if someone is insulting their loved ones even when it's not being attacked. I could go on and comment on every point you made but I don't feel the need to, because it boils down to one thing: it's easier for most people, socially and otherwise, to not have any restriction for the types of food they are allowed to eat. For those who find it easier to live with restrictions, a restrictive diet is a better choice.
I don't even follow Atkins, but give me a break.
I don't believe that calling you out on misstatements makes me defensive, and I certainly wouldn't say it's my diet, as per my statement that you quoted - my current diet isn't even close to a standard Atkins diet. For that matter, I've never followed the Atkins diet, although I do have friends that did and had success on it. I'd make the same type of corrections if you demonstrated the same level of misunderstanding when it came to other nutrition and exercise science topics. It's akin to someone saying "IIFYM causes you eat too much protein" - to anyone who understands IIFYM, such a statement simply demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the diet and it's not "defensive" to call them out on such a statement.
Alright then, let's go through what I said.
Do you deny a birthday party - for example - is not very comfortable for the dieter or the host if the person does not participate in the cake ritual? Some make peace with that, but most can't.
I've attended several office birthday parties where I didn't eat cake. I still sang happy birthday, socialized and I didn't feel awkward. We have food in our breakroom on an almost daily basis - I eat some of it and I choose not to eat some of it. Honestly I'm secure enough not to feel pressured to eat something just because other people are eating it, and the important part about a birthday party is the social aspect (and of course the presents) - not whether the guests eat cake.
Do you deny that moderation, with certain non-drastic macro adjustments fits a wider range of health concerns?
That's a nonsensical statement. Moderation is not a diet - moderation is a concept. The standard IIFYM recommendations most people call moderation on these forums has as high of a protein macro as an Atkins diet - that protein macro would be a horrible idea for someone with kidney or liver disease. But guess what... basic weight loss diets aren't meant for treating people with freaking kidney failure, and criticizing a diet because people with kidney failure might not do well on it is nonsensical. That's like me criticizing SL5x5 because quadriplegics wouldn't do very well on it.
Do you deny that most people who follow Atkins spend most of their time in phase 2, where carbs are rarely over 50, which happens to fall into the ketogenic range for some?
I don't know what most people do on it. I know what the book written by Dr. Atkins says to do. Most people might cheat their bicep curls because they want to inflate their ego at the gym - that doesn't change the proper form for doing a bicep curl.
Do you deny that even after re-introducing carbs, and even in phase 3, you still have "No" foods? Long term here is meant "for the length of your weight loss efforts". A diet one can stick to is a successful diet, and for most people not being able to have their choice of food may cause premature quitting.
I'm hearing lots of most peoples and baseless assumptions with no proof. I have no idea what causes "most people" to quit prematurely and I'd wager you have no clue either. It's all assumptions. As for the maintenance phase in Atkins, the idea is to experiment with reintroducing foods and if you notice yourself gaining, revert until you find what works for you. It's a diet for people that don't really want to deal with tracking calories and relies more on satiety to manage weight. That works for some people and doesn't work for others, and others still track calories/macros will still using Atkins for satiety purposes. What you assume without proof works for most people is irrelevant - what matters is what works best for a particular individual.
OP mentioned her ability to eat cheese and mayo as a plus. Do you deny that being able to eat cheese and mayo AND potatoes is a more attractive choice for most?
How would I confirm or deny that? Frankly, for some people looking to cut weight, eating cheese, mayo and potatoes sounds like a recipe for going hungry. Beyond that, I don't make any pretense to know what "most people" prefer.Nothing is absolutely necessary for weight loss other than being in a deficit. My statement there is directed at the "no pain no gain" mentality, thinking that success only comes if things are hard. It's not necessary for people to make things harder then they need to be to lose weight. Now for those who feel Atkins is easier, that's a different story.
My last statement was merely a general observation and one of the reasons Atkins gets attacked sometimes - which was OP's question.
The whole point of this all: if Atkin is the easiest weight loss method for someone they should go with it to guarantee their success. For the majority of people, though, it's not. So if someone falls into the latter category, they shouldn't feel obliged to do it.
Again with the baseless assumptions about the majority - the majority in this country don't lose weight period, and even fewer keep it off in the long term. Add to that, as much as some people on the MFP forums would like to believe it, I'm not aware of any studies that show a higher rate of success when losing weight through flexible eating and basic calorie counting. Not to mention, it would be illogical to assume that how you lose weight would affect how well you can keep the weight off. At the end of the day, what matters is what works for the individual.
In my mind, the discussion should be about the science and laying it out accurately so that individuals can make choices for themselves about what is going to work best for them. least you bothered to read some tidbits off the website about the phases, but if you're going to talk about the diet, you should at least understand the diet. That doesn't help anyone make an educated decision about what will and will not work for them - it just adds a bunch of misinformation to the discussion. Add to that, making a million assumptions about what most people do (when you have no clue what most people do) isn't the way to have a discussion, and if you haven't read the book or at least learned the basics of how the Atkins diet was designed to work, you probably shouldn't be commenting on it.
But in any event, I'll let it go at this point, as I have to concede people making ignorant comments about low carb diets is a pet peeve of mine and I was probably a bit overly critical in this thread.0 -
Try Dukan as an alternative to Atkins. But you MUST follow the rules completely. If you haven't got the discipline to follow a strict programme for years, you will fail and should not even start.0
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I did Atkins years ago. I lost 38 lbs (226 to 188) in 6 months with no exercise. I wont knock it, but my cholesterol did go up significantly. Eventually I did miss the carbs and my Atkins diet ended. The weight did come back but not all of it (I got as high as 215). IMHO eating all that meat isn't healthy. The body does need fruits and vegetables.0
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Please please please never eat Tilapia. It is the filthiest and most disease ridden fish out there. It's has no fish taste, right? Because it is farm raised, in fresh water, fed corn and wheat, and yes in those cramped spaces, they eat their own poop!AlanaTedmon wrote: »I love pan fried tilapia and tuna;
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Exactly. Atkins is a DIEt0
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I eat keto/LCHF and I love it. I've done it for a few years prior and am now back on it. I'm extreme as I try to eat below 20g of carbs a day and 0 sugars. I've been on it for 3 months and going steady.
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I like it because I am not hungry and want to gorge myself. I don't stick to really low carbs but I eat a lot less than I used to. I also eat alot healthier, I will do that for the rest of my life.0
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My whole family did the Atkins plan together after my first child. It worked really well for initial weight loss. I also had no problems maintaining a fairly rigorous work out program.
I learned alot about portion control, different types of carbs, different types of fats, and about different types of proteins and how they affected my body. I stayed on a relatively low carb lifestyle for about 10 years.
I didn't feel restricted most the time, I still had treats, made cookies, ate out, and even made bread on occasion. I monitored my weight and made adjustments when I started eating too many processed foods.
Ultimately my downfall was a second hard pregnancy with some absolutely awful cravings that I gave into every time. And beer. Beer is a luxury that I enjoyed way too much for a few years as well. And I didn't keep up my workouts for a few years.
I don't feel like going through the first 2 phases again as strictly as I did then, if I plateau in reaching my pre baby self, I might consider it again. I did give up beer, it was sad, but ultimately I don't need it. I am going with calorie counts for now.
I still monitor my processed foods pretty closely, and will typically choose full fat over low fat. I try to get enough fiber and protein as they make a huge impact on how I feel. I try to stay away from sugar treats, but an occasional brownie makes it in there.
Overall, I always thought if it as a lifestyle choice and not just a diet to lose weight. The maintenance part was stressed to me as well as getting rid of processed foods.
If it works, you feel good, and can maintain a healthy balance, then it might work for you.
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