How mfp works
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thx nomex... this is what I would have said had I the medical knowledge (or googling patience) to do so...
binging, purging, and skewed body image are an illness, whether you weigh 90 or 900 lbs...0 -
You're still not getting what I'm saying, but I'm tired of trying to explain it, as you probably are of it to me.
Nomex, I experience ALL of that. You know what my doctors say? Not to worry about it. Do I have ****ty doctors? Maybe, but the reason why they say I'm not bulimic is because I'm not underweight.0 -
we have had a few back and forth disputes over this before fteale, I totally disagree with you and you disagree with me the oirignal post was to set out how mfp is setup and how it works and it does so without fail for the majority of ppl, not all but most, so there are always exceptions to the rule, I still firmly believe that your way is unhealthy and we will just leave it at that as this post is starting to turn away from its original intention.
Seeing as you have never looked at my food nor exercise diary you have no idea whether "my way" is healthy or not. I have said frequently that I did that AS A TEENAGER, it is not how I eat now, I have a very busy life and small children and don't have the luxury of being starving hungry all day. All I am saying is that is DOES WORK, it's not healthy, but you lose weight. To say you don't is just daft, as it clearly does for anorexics. I have also repeatedly said, and am saying again, that it IS NOT HEALTHY TO STARVE YOURSELF, but starving yourself doesn't make you fat.0 -
"The first thing the body burns is protein, mainly because protein cannot be stored in the body. Proteins from alcohol are burned first followed by other proteins. These nutrients are dispersed in the bloodstream and any excess is channeled towards the excretory system to be removed from the body. Thus, you can rarely complain that your body has too much protein. Next, the body burns carbohydrates, both simple and complex, with glycogen being its main form. Glycogen is sugar stored mostly in the liver and controls blood sugar levels as well as providing most of the energy the body needs. Once glycogen has been used up, the body then burns up fat, breaking it down into smaller units to be absorbed in the blood stream. Muscle comes last. Thus, the answer to the question ‘does the body burn fat or muscle first’ is fat. "
http://bodyshapingtips.com/burn_fat/does_the_body_burn_fat_or_muscle_first/
http://www.survivaltopics.com/survival/how-long-can-you-live-without-food/
Not so random things to share.0 -
You're still not getting what I'm saying, but I'm tired of trying to explain it, as you probably are of it to me.
Nomex, I experience ALL of that. You know what my doctors say? Not to worry about it. Do I have ****ty doctors? Maybe, but the reason why they say I'm not bulimic is because I'm not underweight.
If you have an eating disorder, then I feel it is HIGHLY unethical for this 'contest' to go forward as it's encouraging you to further destroy your health. I hope Newfiedan feels the same.0 -
I guess where my concern comes in, is that if you continue the same behavior until you lose the weight... then what? It would be great if you could reach your goal and then just start eating normally and viewing your body normally all of a sudden.... but that's not how it works. You create patterns and habits, and you foster these negative views about yourself that are just plain unhealthy... whether you are underweight or overweight, this is just an unhealthy way to live. By this doctor's definition, you don't become Bulimic until you are under your healthy weight but still not stopping this behavior? That's a pretty dangerous assessment in my opinion... for me the behavior is the illness, whether its an immediate threat to your physical health or not. Once you start, it is dangerously difficult to stop.
It may be that the right thing for a person is to drop a lot of weight quickly. That is certainly true in many cases, if the weight itself is causing more long-term damage than the act of losing it quickly... but that doesn't address the bigger problem, and my personal opinion is that if a doctor doesn't think that's an issue, that's a big red flag for me.
The idea of getting the physical weight off quickly and then addressing the mental/emotional issues is pretty scary... most things require a much more holistic approach in order to be sustainable long-term.0 -
It's too late, Atlantique. Now all I want to do is prove that I'm right, so I'm doing this.
mrs_mouse, I don't feel healthy as it is. I cannot eat more than 1000 calories a day without finding a way to get all that food out of my body. I feel guilty for even eating a salad that's only 200 calories. No one really cares what I go through emotionally with this except for my case manager, who all she wants to do is tell my doctor to increase my medication, which is what I don't want. I feel like I don't have time to lose weight. Seeing 1-2 lbs weight loss a week is not good enough for me. It has to be more.0 -
It's too late, Atlantique. Now all I want to do is prove that I'm right, so I'm doing this.
mrs_mouse, I don't feel healthy as it is. I cannot eat more than 1000 calories a day without finding a way to get all that food out of my body. I feel guilty for even eating a salad that's only 200 calories. No one really cares what I go through emotionally with this except for my case manager, who all she wants to do is tell my doctor to increase my medication, which is what I don't want. I feel like I don't have time to lose weight. Seeing 1-2 lbs weight loss a week is not good enough for me. It has to be more.
really.....this is just ridiculous...0 -
It's too late, Atlantique. Now all I want to do is prove that I'm right, so I'm doing this.
mrs_mouse, I don't feel healthy as it is. I cannot eat more than 1000 calories a day without finding a way to get all that food out of my body. I feel guilty for even eating a salad that's only 200 calories. No one really cares what I go through emotionally with this except for my case manager, who all she wants to do is tell my doctor to increase my medication, which is what I don't want. I feel like I don't have time to lose weight. Seeing 1-2 lbs weight loss a week is not good enough for me. It has to be more.
How thin do you want to be? Throwing up is really bad for you in several ways, and isn't even that effective for weight loss.0 -
I rarely throw up. I just eliminate food weight as fast as possible.
As for thinness, I just want to get back to the body I had before, whether that means getting back to 120 or 150 because I was the same size between those weights.0 -
It's too late, Atlantique. Now all I want to do is prove that I'm right, so I'm doing this.
mrs_mouse, I don't feel healthy as it is. I cannot eat more than 1000 calories a day without finding a way to get all that food out of my body. I feel guilty for even eating a salad that's only 200 calories. No one really cares what I go through emotionally with this except for my case manager, who all she wants to do is tell my doctor to increase my medication, which is what I don't want. I feel like I don't have time to lose weight. Seeing 1-2 lbs weight loss a week is not good enough for me. It has to be more.
This is something you're going to have to get further help with, and we can only offer support... you have nothing but time, and if you want it to be permanent, you need to do it in a healthy way. Talk to your doctor about the emotional side of your problem, and if he/she won't help, find another doctor who will. They're out there. I wish I could say more!
My big concern with this thread (getting back to the original post) is that if you know your behavior is unhealthy, that you should be careful about implying that it is an appropriate method of weight loss in a public forum where others who are less informed might get the idea that it is great advice for them to follow....
If you want to start a new thread I'm happy to keep talking?0 -
My intention was not to promote these types of diets, so just ignore what I said everyone if you don't want to listen to me.
I'll stop posting anything related to it in this thread.0 -
yes I do feel the same and I have presented several logical arguments to get her to go with a healthier path all of which she has refused to listen to or believe in, which is her choice. Regardless of said outcome I know which path is healthy and right, and I will keep on pushing for others to come around and see it my way to give them a healthy and happy option and that starving yourself is totally wrong in every aspect. I know my way is not the "only way" to shed weight but it should be the "only way" that anyone with a grain of common sense chooses to do and sadly many do not. In the case of spacecoconaut she has some serious issues with food and with her views of weight loss, yes she will shed weight but once she has done so and returns to eating again it will all come back further driving her to mistrust my advice. The only cure for that is to have her try it my way and prove that she can shed weight in a healthy way, the 3 weeks that she does the diet thing her way will result in weight loss but her body composition will sadly not change much. Here is what I would predict for the 3 weeks that she try it my way:If you have an eating disorder, then I feel it is HIGHLY unethical for this 'contest' to go forward as it's encouraging you to further destroy your health. I hope Newfiedan feels the same.
Week 1 weight gain due to eating properly and her metabolic rate recovering from a crawl to a normal rate
Week 2 starting to shed some, depending on her diet this can be a 1 to 2 pound loss in a healthy/safe manner.
Week 3 she will start feeling much better energy wise and start seeing positive results.
The whole point of the challenge from my perspective is not to disprove her theory on weight loss, I could care less about unhealthy ways to get there as much as to get her to give my method a run of 3 weeks to prove that it can be done in a healthy way and she can feel good while shedding fat and retaining muscle needed for a healthy metabolic rate.0 -
hey newfiedan - I haven't scrolled through all these page but I just wanted to thank you for posting this topic and clarifying how MFP works. 0
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you are most welcome.0
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Wow.. this thread started out great. Then the i need attention person stepped in that was it. Newfiedan thanks for making the thread and trying to keep it real.0
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sorry double post0
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Well, this has certainly been an interesting read!
Newfiedan, I just want to thank-you for the original post. I'm afraid I'm one of those people who has been wondering why it's so hard for me to lose weight when I'm trying so hard (working out regularly and eating a fairly healthy diet). I have been wondering if it's my hormones, but I don't think so. I've been purposely NOT eating back all of my exercise calories - in some instances I have eaten them, but not generally. I really thought that the calories I burnt off during exercise would help me lose more weight, and that I should still try to stick to the 1200 calories even with my increased workout routine. Your explanation makes perfect sense. I have read other posts on the topic of eating/not eating exercise calories, but it always seems to be split down the middle, with half eating their calories and half not eating them.
Starting tomorrow, I'm planning to eat those calories. I don't yet have a HRM, so I think I better go out and purchase that as well, so I can be more certain of how many calories I am burning.
Thank-you so much!0 -
Hey Guys!
First, I REALLY APPRECIATE THE INITIAL POST! I didn't understand how it worked at all, and I am glad I learned about it fairly quickly at the start of my lifestyle change. I've lost five lbs in ten days, and it makes me REALLY happy! Here are my questions.
I hardly get to really exercise, I used to go to the gym often (world record in the bench press actually) but since I started my own business (a food cart), I work from lunch to 3 am six days a week. I don't have time to go out walking or get to the gym, but sometimes I do get to go to the Aquatic Park, and swim for long periods of time with my bf and his daughter. These periods of swimming result in burned calories in the thousands. How can I eat that back safely? Will it hurt being an every once in a while thing to not worry too much on those days about missed calories, or should I really try to get the right number of calories made up?
Also, on a daily basis, I have learned to be able to balance my meals so they are not only healthier, but keep me fuller longer so I dont end up starving with no calorie room left to suffice. On the days where I have plenty of calories left, is it bad for me to enjoy a soda or something sweet for a filler? I haven't figured it out yet! Being ten or so days in, I have learned SO MUCH! Again, I really appreciate the help!
Tamara Snook0 -
thanks for posting!0
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hi tamara, the only real way to tell what you are burning swimming is what a hrm, and even then it is just a very close estimate but much more accurate than just ballparking your burn. I use mine regularly for workouts and use that as my reference to eat back my cals. I know that not many hrms work well when immersed in water, (I think that is due to how they read using an electrical pulse to measure the hr) There are brands out there that are supposed to work while swimming, but I know that the polar one gets a little wonky when swimming for readings. Bodybugg or body media is supposed to be able to read you all day long and how many cals you have burnt but there is a monthly subscription attached which I disagree with in principle because you are not only paying for the reader but also for their website, however it depends on how valuable that info is for you. I would give it a best guess and then base it off how you are feeling, if you feel sluggish then eat some more until you hit that balance point. If you are eating to little then for the first week or 2 the weight will come off faster and higher rate of loss than what mfp has said you will shed. If you lost less than what mfp says then chances are you ate to much to lose that goal. Only weight in once a week though usually first thing after waking up and hitting the bathroom. My weight will fluctuate by as much as 5 pounds on any given day depending on what I ate and how much I drank.0
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Thank you for the advice...I think I've been eating too few calories and haven't lost any weight because of it0
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VLCD does work for obese ppl because the body will work with you to shed fat as it has tons of energy in fat stores to help with the daily needs, someone whom has 40 or less pounds to shed is a different matter all together. The rules can be bent for OBESE PPL not for those whom are in a lower bodyfat range with 40 or less to shed. Congrats on the loss but a long term VLCD will fail in the end whereas the way I am advocating will not bottom out like a VLCD does, not to mention the damage that a VLCD does to the body during that fat loss, you are losing mass amounts of muscle leaving you skinny fat by the end and weak. I have steadily lost without fail, have gotten consistently stronger every week and feel fantastic, can you say the same for a VLCD diet?She will lose significant amounts of weight. I'm a chronic ED sufferer (not acute) and have had many experiences of VLCDs leading to weight and size loss NOT plateaus.
eg -
4 months at circa 500 calories a day resulted in weight loss from 113 pounds to 80 and a size UK10 to way below size UK6
2 months of fasting every other day and eating around 800 cals on the between days led to weight loss from 120 pounds to 105 pounds and a UK10 to a UK8.
The reason why your method is better (I think) is that the weight loss is healthy, you are not depriving your body of nutrients and you are less likely to gain the weight back.
I am pretty much exactly the same weight as I was 10 years ago but I have probably lost and gained 200+ pounds in that time - the same 30-40 pounds over and over again. NOT healthy or good.
But you do lose the weight. You can't exist on 700 calories for any length of time and not lose weight.
So, while I fully accept that MFP has the RIGHT approach it does not have the ONLY approach. 'Starvation mode' is called far too much for what would be very temporary plateaus if the individual continued to not eat.
But ultimately the problem with VLCD is that you will be skinny fat ... lose muscle mass! You will lose weight for a short period of time, but by slowing down your metabolism when you start eating even slightly higher you will gain weight. Just remember, the more calories you eat to lose.... the more calories you can eat to maintain.
I eat back my exercise calories... and uh look below... I think its working! (PS while training for my first half marathon I didnt eat nearly enough and I gained 3 pounds)!0 -
I don't think anybody's arguing that the MFP recommended approcah DOESN'T work? It's very clear that it does from all the success stories.
What I was saying is that the other approaches (not eating exercise cals, not eating enough etc) ALSO work.
Yes, the result may be 'skinny fat' but that isn't the warning that people throw around so much. I wouldn't mind if a response to "do I really need to net 1200 cals" was "yes, or you won't have good muscle mass" but it's "yes or you'll go into starvation mode and won't lose any weight, you might even gain weight."
The former may well be true but the latter certainly isn't.0 -
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This was perhaps one of the best threads I have seen on this site. I too, have a lot of weight to lose. I've lost weight in the past and got down to my target weight with Phen-Fen; but the weight was back on with a vengence in a matter of a few years. I've lost weight using Dr. Atkins, but the weight piled backon after I resumed eating the carbs.
This is the first diet that I'm truly comfortable with. I can eat Chinese, pasta, pizza, ice cream - all the foods that I love. But, now that I know the caloric budget I have to live with - I simply eat the foods I love in moderation, and substitute apples, veggies and lower carb meals for the rest of the day. This is something I can truly live with.
And your explanation was spot on, based upon everything I have read on the subject; and as you stated 'you are living proof that it works'. I know I won't lose my weight in 6 months; due to my seditary lifestyle (engineer sitting at a pc all day). But, I do know that if I just use the MFP on my iPhone, the weight will come off - and with this lifestyle, I'm confident that THIS time, it will stay off.0
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