Someone PLEASE explain why the last 10lbs are harder then the first?
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-How can someone gain weight by eating too little? If that were true no one would ever starve to death.midwesterner85 wrote: »As you get leaner you have a smaller margin of error. Usually those "last 10 lbs" are vanity lbs and isn't really necessary to lose. People can't get past that stage but are willing to stop trying because at that point they'd already be in a healthy weight range.
With those last few lbs accuracy and consistency because more important than ever. You can lose a bunch of weight without being accurate as long as you're in a deficit but like I said above, with less fat that margin begins to disappear.
The deficit needs to be smaller because at that stage in the game you have to realize that your body will only oxidize a certain amount of fat a day. It will need to pull energy out of somewhere. Your maintenance will usually be lower than before you lost all the weight and having a deficit that is to large can weigh on your satiety, energy levels and adherence.
Adequate protein levels and resistance training will aid in lbm retention but you can't count on over consumption of protein to fully prevent the lbm lose. Increase protein beyond certain levels aren't going to accelerate MPS.
^^This. I'm still 25 lbs. from the end and I'm starting to run into this already. If I eat too little, I gain weight (that angers a lot of people who insist that a larger deficit will cause a larger loss and that one will never gain weight from eating too little, but I observed a weight gain for 4 weeks after cutting calories too low. As soon as I raised calories to a smaller deficit, I lost it again). The "window" of how many calories can cause weight loss starts to become small, and so if you unwittingly go outside of that window, you will gain weight or stall. One must be extremely precise in measuring and this is when weight loss is not just in the kitchen - heavier people can lose weight usually just by eating less because they require more energy just for every day sedentary activities such as working a desk job. As you get closer to your goal, you will need to not only eat the right amount (above RMR, but below total expenditure), but you will also need to exercise more in order to increase calories expended.
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i'm really struggling with the last bit of weight too. i was wondering if your body comes used to the amount of training you do etc.. even though every day at the gym i push myself that bit harder or go faster, maybe my body has just had enough and wants to leave me like this.0
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I think he/she means a more efficient use of calories is a body that uses fewer (not more, think of efficient cars and gas), and that as you restrict more, your body uses fewer calories by reducing activity levels. I wouldn't call that "holding onto input because you aren't feeding it enough", though. Your BMR doesn't change and you may not even reduce your exercise levels but your NEAT levels change (non-exercise activity thermogenesis). Studies find that when you quit restricting, your calorie burn levels go back to normal.NeverCatchYourBreath wrote: »It is true that as you weigh less your body needs less calories in. But I don't agree with a poster above who said that your body will "try to hold on to weight" the leaner you get.
As you get healthier and exercise more, your body become more EFFICIENT at using the calories you take in. Becoming more efficient at using those calories, even though the calories are still low means harder to lose that last bit of weight. Your body uses as much of those calories you're taking in as possible because you've taught it to be a better machine and utilize its inputs better. Which is really good!!
You should adjust your calories for the 0.5lb loss per week because you don't need a large deficit. That is when your body will begin to hold on to as much input as possible because you aren't feeding it enough. When you feed it enough those last few pounds will come off, slowly but surely! Don't think that a larger calorie deficit is the answer. It's not. Slow and steady wins the race.
And if you're weight lifting, don't forget your body composition could change (more muscle less fat) and your weight won't shift dramatically. So when it comes to the last 10lbs it's recommended you use a measuring tape, pictures, the way those "perfect weight" pants feel when you put them on, etc...
Can you, or anyone else, clarify/elaborate on this? I don't understand this... seems like you're contradicting yourself. Also, I don't understand how the body gets more efficient as using calories.
I think the last few pounds are harder largely due to measurement error. People think they burn 2000 and eat 1500 and should lose a pound a week but they probably burn less and eat more and lose a lot slower. If your actual deficit achieved is only say 100 calories, not 500 (easy to happen, especially aiming for a 250 deficit or a half pound a week), it'll take over a month to lose a pound and nearly a year to lose 10.
That's one reason I generally balk at the "you can't aim to lose a pound a week with so little to lose". Rarely does someone AIMing to lose that much actually achieve it so their actual deficit is much smaller than they think, so why not aim higher. No one wants to spend a year logging to lose 10 lbs.
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-How can someone gain weight by eating too little? If that were true no one would ever starve to death.midwesterner85 wrote: »As you get leaner you have a smaller margin of error. Usually those "last 10 lbs" are vanity lbs and isn't really necessary to lose. People can't get past that stage but are willing to stop trying because at that point they'd already be in a healthy weight range.
With those last few lbs accuracy and consistency because more important than ever. You can lose a bunch of weight without being accurate as long as you're in a deficit but like I said above, with less fat that margin begins to disappear.
The deficit needs to be smaller because at that stage in the game you have to realize that your body will only oxidize a certain amount of fat a day. It will need to pull energy out of somewhere. Your maintenance will usually be lower than before you lost all the weight and having a deficit that is to large can weigh on your satiety, energy levels and adherence.
Adequate protein levels and resistance training will aid in lbm retention but you can't count on over consumption of protein to fully prevent the lbm lose. Increase protein beyond certain levels aren't going to accelerate MPS.
^^This. I'm still 25 lbs. from the end and I'm starting to run into this already. If I eat too little, I gain weight (that angers a lot of people who insist that a larger deficit will cause a larger loss and that one will never gain weight from eating too little, but I observed a weight gain for 4 weeks after cutting calories too low. As soon as I raised calories to a smaller deficit, I lost it again). The "window" of how many calories can cause weight loss starts to become small, and so if you unwittingly go outside of that window, you will gain weight or stall. One must be extremely precise in measuring and this is when weight loss is not just in the kitchen - heavier people can lose weight usually just by eating less because they require more energy just for every day sedentary activities such as working a desk job. As you get closer to your goal, you will need to not only eat the right amount (above RMR, but below total expenditure), but you will also need to exercise more in order to increase calories expended.
I sure wish I understood it myself, just so I could explain it to all of you who who keep calling me a liar. I've been over this very thoroughly in another post, and will not argue it again. I'm getting really annoyed at everyone telling me that I magically stopped measuring food properly during those 4 weeks, or that my scale broke for those 4 weeks and started working again afterwards, or that I'm just plain lying. I was there... if you were not and you can't do anything other than call me a liar, then keep your comments to yourself. Just because you do not understand it does not mean it is not possible.
Everything was the same - same scale, same food scale, same types of foods, same exercise level. The only difference was that I ate less of those foods and I gained weight fast when eating around 100 cal below my RMR. I gained more than 5 lbs. in 4 weeks after consistently losing weight (albeit at a slow pace) for months at a higher calorie intake (smaller deficit). As soon as I returned to that higher calorie intake, I lost that weight again. Eating below RMR caused weight gain.0 -
One factor might be the availability of calories from fat stores - reportedly about 30 calories/day per lb of fat stores. When close to goal you have less fat left and hence the ability to supply less of a deficit.
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midwesterner85 wrote: »
-How can someone gain weight by eating too little? If that were true no one would ever starve to death.midwesterner85 wrote: »As you get leaner you have a smaller margin of error. Usually those "last 10 lbs" are vanity lbs and isn't really necessary to lose. People can't get past that stage but are willing to stop trying because at that point they'd already be in a healthy weight range.
With those last few lbs accuracy and consistency because more important than ever. You can lose a bunch of weight without being accurate as long as you're in a deficit but like I said above, with less fat that margin begins to disappear.
The deficit needs to be smaller because at that stage in the game you have to realize that your body will only oxidize a certain amount of fat a day. It will need to pull energy out of somewhere. Your maintenance will usually be lower than before you lost all the weight and having a deficit that is to large can weigh on your satiety, energy levels and adherence.
Adequate protein levels and resistance training will aid in lbm retention but you can't count on over consumption of protein to fully prevent the lbm lose. Increase protein beyond certain levels aren't going to accelerate MPS.
^^This. I'm still 25 lbs. from the end and I'm starting to run into this already. If I eat too little, I gain weight (that angers a lot of people who insist that a larger deficit will cause a larger loss and that one will never gain weight from eating too little, but I observed a weight gain for 4 weeks after cutting calories too low. As soon as I raised calories to a smaller deficit, I lost it again). The "window" of how many calories can cause weight loss starts to become small, and so if you unwittingly go outside of that window, you will gain weight or stall. One must be extremely precise in measuring and this is when weight loss is not just in the kitchen - heavier people can lose weight usually just by eating less because they require more energy just for every day sedentary activities such as working a desk job. As you get closer to your goal, you will need to not only eat the right amount (above RMR, but below total expenditure), but you will also need to exercise more in order to increase calories expended.
I sure wish I understood it myself, just so I could explain it to all of you who who keep calling me a liar. I've been over this very thoroughly in another post, and will not go into it again. Everything was the same - same scale, same food scale, same types of foods, same exercise level. The only difference was that I ate less of those foods and I gained weight fast when eating around 100 cal below my RMR. I gained more than 5 lbs. in 4 weeks after consistently losing weight (albeit at a slow pace) for months at a higher calorie intake (smaller deficit). As soon as I returned to that higher calorie intake, I lost that weight again. Eating below RMR caused weight gain.
Just so I'm clear... you don't understand the how/why it happened, you just know you're personal experience?
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It's actually a good thing!
Our bodies are intelligent, and when we are approaching the healthy weight our body should operate at, it slows the loss way down, because it knows you are approaching (or have arrived at) the point it would want to remain at! And as others have mentioned, it's not in any hurry to lose the little that remains!
Don't worry too much about those last 10 lbs, and if there changes you would want to make to body composition, work on those via exercise/ gym/ etc, because it is unlikely losing the last 10lbs is the answer to that! And as you work on the other stuff, you may lose those 10 pounds anyway!
If your body composition is fine, then perhaps where you are is your body's true goal weight, as opposed to the number you had in mind!
ADDITION - After viewing your pics, I wonder where exactly you would want an additional 10 lb loss to come from?
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midwesterner85 wrote: »
-How can someone gain weight by eating too little? If that were true no one would ever starve to death.midwesterner85 wrote: »As you get leaner you have a smaller margin of error. Usually those "last 10 lbs" are vanity lbs and isn't really necessary to lose. People can't get past that stage but are willing to stop trying because at that point they'd already be in a healthy weight range.
With those last few lbs accuracy and consistency because more important than ever. You can lose a bunch of weight without being accurate as long as you're in a deficit but like I said above, with less fat that margin begins to disappear.
The deficit needs to be smaller because at that stage in the game you have to realize that your body will only oxidize a certain amount of fat a day. It will need to pull energy out of somewhere. Your maintenance will usually be lower than before you lost all the weight and having a deficit that is to large can weigh on your satiety, energy levels and adherence.
Adequate protein levels and resistance training will aid in lbm retention but you can't count on over consumption of protein to fully prevent the lbm lose. Increase protein beyond certain levels aren't going to accelerate MPS.
^^This. I'm still 25 lbs. from the end and I'm starting to run into this already. If I eat too little, I gain weight (that angers a lot of people who insist that a larger deficit will cause a larger loss and that one will never gain weight from eating too little, but I observed a weight gain for 4 weeks after cutting calories too low. As soon as I raised calories to a smaller deficit, I lost it again). The "window" of how many calories can cause weight loss starts to become small, and so if you unwittingly go outside of that window, you will gain weight or stall. One must be extremely precise in measuring and this is when weight loss is not just in the kitchen - heavier people can lose weight usually just by eating less because they require more energy just for every day sedentary activities such as working a desk job. As you get closer to your goal, you will need to not only eat the right amount (above RMR, but below total expenditure), but you will also need to exercise more in order to increase calories expended.
I sure wish I understood it myself, just so I could explain it to all of you who who keep calling me a liar. I've been over this very thoroughly in another post, and will not go into it again. Everything was the same - same scale, same food scale, same types of foods, same exercise level. The only difference was that I ate less of those foods and I gained weight fast when eating around 100 cal below my RMR. I gained more than 5 lbs. in 4 weeks after consistently losing weight (albeit at a slow pace) for months at a higher calorie intake (smaller deficit). As soon as I returned to that higher calorie intake, I lost that weight again. Eating below RMR caused weight gain.
Just so I'm clear... you don't understand the how/why it happened, you just know you're personal experience?
The only variable I changed was calorie intake. I went from a small calorie deficit to a larger deficit, which was below calculated RMR. After observing consistent weight gain, I read somewhere that eating below RMR could cause weight gain. So I raised calories again and started losing. There are no other variables that changed... so I don't fully understand why, but I understand what and what happened.
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When you really think about it, one you first gained 10lbs(for most people) it didn't happen overnight. Your body's metabolism was higher then, so while the body was burning calories at a high rate, it was also readjusting itself to the new change. Going back down the scale is the same process, except your metabolism probably isn't operating at the level it once was. You find your body is fighting more, holding on tightly to those last 10.
I know my last 10lbs will be a fight and if I can maintain a 500 calorie deficit on a daily basis, maintain at least 10,000 steps a day(using SenseMe app on android, 17000 if you use fitbit(because anymove counts as a step) realistically .5 pounds. The key thing is not to starve yourself, because if you do, it is a diet. You always need to feel full. Establishing a new habit is a lifestyle change, once you do that your body will recognize it and slowly let go. "Remember you didn't gain all that weight overnight" so expect a long hard fight, even if you only lose .1 like I did today, it's still a win. Hang in there, let your body know, you are no longer that person, that needs all those calories to function.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »
-How can someone gain weight by eating too little? If that were true no one would ever starve to death.midwesterner85 wrote: »As you get leaner you have a smaller margin of error. Usually those "last 10 lbs" are vanity lbs and isn't really necessary to lose. People can't get past that stage but are willing to stop trying because at that point they'd already be in a healthy weight range.
With those last few lbs accuracy and consistency because more important than ever. You can lose a bunch of weight without being accurate as long as you're in a deficit but like I said above, with less fat that margin begins to disappear.
The deficit needs to be smaller because at that stage in the game you have to realize that your body will only oxidize a certain amount of fat a day. It will need to pull energy out of somewhere. Your maintenance will usually be lower than before you lost all the weight and having a deficit that is to large can weigh on your satiety, energy levels and adherence.
Adequate protein levels and resistance training will aid in lbm retention but you can't count on over consumption of protein to fully prevent the lbm lose. Increase protein beyond certain levels aren't going to accelerate MPS.
^^This. I'm still 25 lbs. from the end and I'm starting to run into this already. If I eat too little, I gain weight (that angers a lot of people who insist that a larger deficit will cause a larger loss and that one will never gain weight from eating too little, but I observed a weight gain for 4 weeks after cutting calories too low. As soon as I raised calories to a smaller deficit, I lost it again). The "window" of how many calories can cause weight loss starts to become small, and so if you unwittingly go outside of that window, you will gain weight or stall. One must be extremely precise in measuring and this is when weight loss is not just in the kitchen - heavier people can lose weight usually just by eating less because they require more energy just for every day sedentary activities such as working a desk job. As you get closer to your goal, you will need to not only eat the right amount (above RMR, but below total expenditure), but you will also need to exercise more in order to increase calories expended.
I sure wish I understood it myself, just so I could explain it to all of you who who keep calling me a liar. I've been over this very thoroughly in another post, and will not argue it again. I'm getting really annoyed at everyone telling me that I magically stopped measuring food properly during those 4 weeks, or that my scale broke for those 4 weeks and started working again afterwards, or that I'm just plain lying. I was there... if you were not and you can't do anything other than call me a liar, then keep your comments to yourself. Just because you do not understand it does not mean it is not possible.
Everything was the same - same scale, same food scale, same types of foods, same exercise level. The only difference was that I ate less of those foods and I gained weight fast when eating around 100 cal below my RMR. I gained more than 5 lbs. in 4 weeks after consistently losing weight (albeit at a slow pace) for months at a higher calorie intake (smaller deficit). As soon as I returned to that higher calorie intake, I lost that weight again. Eating below RMR caused weight gain.
5 lbs. in 4 weeks could be water weight which could've been caused by all kinds of things besides eating below RMR.
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WalkingAlong wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »
-How can someone gain weight by eating too little? If that were true no one would ever starve to death.midwesterner85 wrote: »As you get leaner you have a smaller margin of error. Usually those "last 10 lbs" are vanity lbs and isn't really necessary to lose. People can't get past that stage but are willing to stop trying because at that point they'd already be in a healthy weight range.
With those last few lbs accuracy and consistency because more important than ever. You can lose a bunch of weight without being accurate as long as you're in a deficit but like I said above, with less fat that margin begins to disappear.
The deficit needs to be smaller because at that stage in the game you have to realize that your body will only oxidize a certain amount of fat a day. It will need to pull energy out of somewhere. Your maintenance will usually be lower than before you lost all the weight and having a deficit that is to large can weigh on your satiety, energy levels and adherence.
Adequate protein levels and resistance training will aid in lbm retention but you can't count on over consumption of protein to fully prevent the lbm lose. Increase protein beyond certain levels aren't going to accelerate MPS.
^^This. I'm still 25 lbs. from the end and I'm starting to run into this already. If I eat too little, I gain weight (that angers a lot of people who insist that a larger deficit will cause a larger loss and that one will never gain weight from eating too little, but I observed a weight gain for 4 weeks after cutting calories too low. As soon as I raised calories to a smaller deficit, I lost it again). The "window" of how many calories can cause weight loss starts to become small, and so if you unwittingly go outside of that window, you will gain weight or stall. One must be extremely precise in measuring and this is when weight loss is not just in the kitchen - heavier people can lose weight usually just by eating less because they require more energy just for every day sedentary activities such as working a desk job. As you get closer to your goal, you will need to not only eat the right amount (above RMR, but below total expenditure), but you will also need to exercise more in order to increase calories expended.
I sure wish I understood it myself, just so I could explain it to all of you who who keep calling me a liar. I've been over this very thoroughly in another post, and will not argue it again. I'm getting really annoyed at everyone telling me that I magically stopped measuring food properly during those 4 weeks, or that my scale broke for those 4 weeks and started working again afterwards, or that I'm just plain lying. I was there... if you were not and you can't do anything other than call me a liar, then keep your comments to yourself. Just because you do not understand it does not mean it is not possible.
Everything was the same - same scale, same food scale, same types of foods, same exercise level. The only difference was that I ate less of those foods and I gained weight fast when eating around 100 cal below my RMR. I gained more than 5 lbs. in 4 weeks after consistently losing weight (albeit at a slow pace) for months at a higher calorie intake (smaller deficit). As soon as I returned to that higher calorie intake, I lost that weight again. Eating below RMR caused weight gain.
5 lbs. in 4 weeks could be water weight which could've been caused by all kinds of things besides eating below RMR.
Why didn't I gain 5 lbs. of water weight at a smaller deficit? And why did I lose that water weight when I returned to that smaller deficit?0 -
I don't know about anyone else, but now that I'm down to roughly 15 pounds to lose my deficit isn't at 500 cal/day even eating 1200 calories/day. It's a 430 cal deficit now per MFP. So I have to be stricter about logging small items now (spices, coffee, chewable vitamins) and try to move more to burn calories. And I assume the deficit will only get smaller as I lose more weight.0
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One factor might be the availability of calories from fat stores - reportedly about 30 calories/day per lb of fat stores. When close to goal you have less fat left and hence the ability to supply less of a deficit.
That's the rule of 31. The only issue is that it was a study that focused on individuals that were in a sedentary state and when you add in training it skews the equation. A bit after that came out Lyle stated that he did think it was flawed. I have personally tried to find any further information or research expanding on 31 but haven't come up with anything.
In the absence of better information we can use that then.
I would think there's some endurance performance stuff around that might allow us to get back to a similar parameter - maximum sustained work rate in a glycogen depleted state etc.
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When it happened to me, it was pretty simple.
When I was overweight, my maintenance calories were quite high - I never actually checked what they were, but I'm going to guess at 2,100 net ish.
To lose a pound a week, I needed to net -500 a day, so 1,600 calories a day would do it.
Right now, my maintenance calories are 1,600 net. If I wanted to lose a pound a week I'd have to net 1,100 (yikes!). And since I can't (won't) do that, if I want to lose any more (which I don't actually, I'm just using myself as an example) I'd have to do it at 0.5 pounds a week or be really miserable.
That's all it is. Just maths.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »WalkingAlong wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »
-How can someone gain weight by eating too little? If that were true no one would ever starve to death.midwesterner85 wrote: »As you get leaner you have a smaller margin of error. Usually those "last 10 lbs" are vanity lbs and isn't really necessary to lose. People can't get past that stage but are willing to stop trying because at that point they'd already be in a healthy weight range.
With those last few lbs accuracy and consistency because more important than ever. You can lose a bunch of weight without being accurate as long as you're in a deficit but like I said above, with less fat that margin begins to disappear.
The deficit needs to be smaller because at that stage in the game you have to realize that your body will only oxidize a certain amount of fat a day. It will need to pull energy out of somewhere. Your maintenance will usually be lower than before you lost all the weight and having a deficit that is to large can weigh on your satiety, energy levels and adherence.
Adequate protein levels and resistance training will aid in lbm retention but you can't count on over consumption of protein to fully prevent the lbm lose. Increase protein beyond certain levels aren't going to accelerate MPS.
^^This. I'm still 25 lbs. from the end and I'm starting to run into this already. If I eat too little, I gain weight (that angers a lot of people who insist that a larger deficit will cause a larger loss and that one will never gain weight from eating too little, but I observed a weight gain for 4 weeks after cutting calories too low. As soon as I raised calories to a smaller deficit, I lost it again). The "window" of how many calories can cause weight loss starts to become small, and so if you unwittingly go outside of that window, you will gain weight or stall. One must be extremely precise in measuring and this is when weight loss is not just in the kitchen - heavier people can lose weight usually just by eating less because they require more energy just for every day sedentary activities such as working a desk job. As you get closer to your goal, you will need to not only eat the right amount (above RMR, but below total expenditure), but you will also need to exercise more in order to increase calories expended.
I sure wish I understood it myself, just so I could explain it to all of you who who keep calling me a liar. I've been over this very thoroughly in another post, and will not argue it again. I'm getting really annoyed at everyone telling me that I magically stopped measuring food properly during those 4 weeks, or that my scale broke for those 4 weeks and started working again afterwards, or that I'm just plain lying. I was there... if you were not and you can't do anything other than call me a liar, then keep your comments to yourself. Just because you do not understand it does not mean it is not possible.
Everything was the same - same scale, same food scale, same types of foods, same exercise level. The only difference was that I ate less of those foods and I gained weight fast when eating around 100 cal below my RMR. I gained more than 5 lbs. in 4 weeks after consistently losing weight (albeit at a slow pace) for months at a higher calorie intake (smaller deficit). As soon as I returned to that higher calorie intake, I lost that weight again. Eating below RMR caused weight gain.
5 lbs. in 4 weeks could be water weight which could've been caused by all kinds of things besides eating below RMR.
Why didn't I gain 5 lbs. of water weight at a smaller deficit? And why did I lose that water weight when I returned to that smaller deficit?
I don't know. Did eating below RMR stress you out? Could you have had a virus? Could you have had an allergic reaction to something? Hormonal changes? Any environmental changes?
If you're curious, try it again and see if you can replicate it. Or just chalk it up to "I gain weight eating below RMR, which is something unique to me and not generalizable".
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I don't know that anyone has a really good answer although I suspect that part of it simply has to do with the body liking to have some extra fat to work with and not wanting to throw all the fuel into the fire if it can avoid it.
I've been losing pretty consistently at half a pound a day for 160 days but as I get closer to my goal I am definitely feeling more hunger queues than when I was much heavier.
I personally don't think the whole calorie in / out thing breaks down ever, just that when you get leaner your body knows it doesn't have as much readily available stored energy available and so it burns less fat and you need to eat a bit more food to have the same energy levels.
Ultimately, as fat becomes the LEAST available fuel source to power your body it sort of makes sense that your body will use less of it to keep things moving along.0 -
I believe it gets harder for both physical and psychological reasons.
Physically, your BMR and TDEE get lower as you get lighter, so you need less food. People often continue to eat the same amount of calories and weight loss slows or stops (e.g. if you started weight loss on 1600 calories per day, then didn't realise you actually shouldn't eat more than 1300 or something by the end of it).
Also, people start to get happier and more confident. That last 10 pounds you still want off, obviously, but you kind of start thinking "oh just come off already" and subconsciously give up on losing it a little. For example, with me I started off practically cutting out naughty things. Telling myself they were horrible, and I swore I could feel the fat forming on myself as I ate them (bit dramatic, I know). Now I try and incorporate naughty things into some of my calorie goals every few days. This means every now and then I do go over my goal (currently 1280). I'm not exactly putting on weight, but I'm not losing it as well as before at ALL.
I need to realise just stick it out another 10 weeks or so then I can switch to maintenance! My body wants to switch now.0
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