Flu Vaccine
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tincanonastring wrote: »headofphat wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »headofphat wrote: »No. Have never had one and probably never will.
Side note: I've never had the flu.
Since there is scientific reasoning on both sides of the immunization debate please save your arguments for all of your friends who agree with you and you can sit around and talk about how smart you are and how dumb everyone else is.
Please point me to the scientific reasoning on the con side of the immunization debate.
Feel free to research it yourself. I'm sure you skip over the articles when you read the ones that support your argument.
I read. I don't do research. Vaccine research is for people who have a proper understanding of immunology and biochemistry. I don't have that expertise, so I read the work of those that do. That said, I've yet to come across any scientific study that actually supports the con side of this "debate." I promise that I will, in fact, read any scientific sources you have to support your statement. Please, indulge me. You've made the claim, which means it is your burden of proof.
You don't read vaccine research but you read scientific studies? Seems the same.
Anyway good luck with your vaccinations.
I don't follow the logic of burden of proof because I could care less if you get vaccinated or not. (not to sound mean or anything) It's your choice what you do and I wish you the best in your decision. If I die from the flu because I didn't buy into vaccinations you can feel free to laugh at me, I won't care when I'm dead. If you die from the chemicals in vaccinations or because you get a different strain of flu that wasn't covered in your vaccination then I reserve the right to laugh at you.
Like I said you can do your own research or reading or whatever you want to call it.
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Got it. Just like last year and the year before and the year before that and ........ Still a non-issue.0
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digginDeep wrote: »headofphat wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »headofphat wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »headofphat wrote: »No. Have never had one and probably never will.
Side note: I've never had the flu.
Since there is scientific reasoning on both sides of the immunization debate please save your arguments for all of your friends who agree with you and you can sit around and talk about how smart you are and how dumb everyone else is.
Please point me to the scientific reasoning on the con side of the immunization debate.
Feel free to research it yourself. I'm sure you skip over the articles when you read the ones that support your argument.
I read. I don't do research. Vaccine research is for people who have a proper understanding of immunology and biochemistry. I don't have that expertise, so I read the work of those that do. That said, I've yet to come across any scientific study that actually supports the con side of this "debate." I promise that I will, in fact, read any scientific sources you have to support your statement. Please, indulge me. You've made the claim, which means it is your burden of proof.
You don't read vaccine research but you read scientific studies? Seems the same.
Anyway good luck with your vaccinations.
I don't follow the logic of burden of proof because I could care less if you get vaccinated or not. (not to sound mean or anything) It's your choice what you do and I wish you the best in your decision. If I die from the flu because I didn't buy into vaccinations you can feel free to laugh at me, I won't care when I'm dead. If you die from the chemicals in vaccinations or because you get a different strain of flu that wasn't covered in your vaccination then I reserve the right to laugh at you.
Like I said you can do your own research or reading or whatever you want to call it.
Not getting vaccinated is tantamount to agreeing to be a petri dish for something can kill other people. No one cares, frankly, if you die. It's like drunk drivers- take yourself out, but please don't take us with you. ("You" being not you personally, of course, and not to sound mean. It's a matter of socio-moral imperatives in the Kantian sense...)
Yes. I agree, those are some interesting words.
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No, I'm serious those are some interesting words. I have no idea what Kantian sense means and I refuse to look it up.
Like you're never driven drunk?0 -
The logic works. However Jesus turned water into wine and I'm sure he would have had no problem with his apostles driving home after a rager.0
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headofphat wrote: »http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/six-reasons-to-say-no-to-vaccination/
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/11/27/a-shot-never-worth-taking-the-flu-vaccine-by-kelly-brogan-md/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB5DLf1Qt78
(I almost never agree with Bill Maher.)
Here are a couple for you. Now please remember I don't care if you get the vaccine or not. I just want you to read both sides of the debate and make an informed decision.
So, I'm trying not to laugh at these links, but to put it nicely, these aren't the most unbiased of sources. Nor are they qualified much to comment about vaccine efficacy. Brogan is a "holistic pschiatrist" and an admitted anti-vaxxer, so I can't figure out why her articles are valid. Everything of hers I've read (including this piece) relies on fairly blatant logical fallacies (like constant appeals to nature). At one point in this piece she advises readers to ignore the evidence and just use common sense. Not really a scientific approach there.
I'm still trying to figure out who Sarah is and why she would put out an article like this without linking you to the disclaimer on her own site:
"The information on The Healthy Home Economist is provided for informational purposes only. It is in no way intended to substitute for the advice provided by your doctor or other health care professional. You should not rely upon or follow the programs or techniques or use any of the products and services made available by or through the use of this website for decision making without obtaining the advice of a physician or other health care professional. The nutritional and other information on this website are not intended to be and do not constitute health care or medical advice.
The views expressed on The Healthy Home Economist have not been reviewed or endorsed by the Weston A. Price Foundation or any other private or public entity. The Healthy Home Economist is an independent, privately run business separate from this nonprofit organization."
I can't watch the video at work, but I'm sure it's hysterical. Maher is a funny guy. Not sure I'd trust him with the life of my family, though. I can't find what medical school he attended.
Look, man. It's your decision, but you're clearly coming down on the irrational, anti-science side of this "debate." I used quotes there because, from the standpoint of the experts in this field, the people who are actually doing the research and compiling the data, the scientific consensus supporting all vaccines, including the one for the annual flu, is absolutely overwhelming. In order to overturn such a strong consensus, I'm going to need more than the opinion (note - there's no actual scientific research underlying vaccine opposition) of a psychiatrist, a comedian, and a mommy-blog.
ETA: fixed predictable spelling errors...0 -
I only read your first sentence. I'm not trying to convince you of anything just that there are other opinions and whether they are scientific or not I don't care. Again, get your vaccinces. I wish you the best. Hopefully you'll live to be 180 because that's rad. Good luck.0
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Science once told us the Earth was flat. It's always right. Always.
You should also definitely listen to all drug companies because how would they make money if you die?
I won't be getting a flu vaccine.0 -
Sorry, that was my way of saying that reading stuff on the internet doesn't count as research. In order to actually research vaccines, you need years and years (often a decade plus) of training in biology, immunology, bio-chemistry, laboratory procedures, etc. What we're doing is reading.
You don't follow the logic of burden of proof? Then why are you participating in a conversation? That's the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and saying LALALALALALALA when someone asks you a follow-up question. If you can't support your stance, just say so.0 -
headofphat wrote: »Science once told us the Earth was flat. It's always right. Always.
You should also definitely listen to all drug companies because how would they make money if you die?
I won't be getting a flu vaccine.
No, science never said the Earth was flat. Ancient Greeks calculated the curvature of the earth and its circumference a thousand years before Columbus.0 -
ETA: f'ed up quoting. I hate these new forums.0
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ETA: dammit!!! why do you hate me, new forums?!?0
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tincanonastring wrote: »Sorry, that was my way of saying that reading stuff on the internet doesn't count as research. In order to actually research vaccines, you need years and years (often a decade plus) of training in biology, immunology, bio-chemistry, laboratory procedures, etc. What we're doing is reading.
You don't follow the logic of burden of proof? Then why are you participating in a conversation? That's the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and saying LALALALALALALA when someone asks you a follow-up question. If you can't support your stance, just say so.
I can support my stance but you refuse to hear the other side. You only want to hear what supports your side. And yes, I'm basically sticking my fingers in my ear because I genuinely don't care if you get vaccinated. YOU can feel free to look around and find scientific evidence that vaccines don't work, it's out there. You just refuse to accept it because you already agree with the vaccination crowd. I say, good for you! You've taken a side and you're sticking with it.
Just don't get all high and mighty and tell people that they are irresponsible for not getting vaccincinations. It's a personal choice, whether you base it on science or JK Rowling novels it doesn't matter.
Go get your vaccinations, I wish you the best of luck. I'm not getting any and I don't care if it's "socially immoral".
<fingers in ears> LALALALALALALALALALA
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headofphat wrote: »I only read your first sentence. I'm not trying to convince you of anything just that there are other opinions and whether they are scientific or not I don't care. Again, get your vaccinces. I wish you the best. Hopefully you'll live to be 180 because that's rad. Good luck.
Thanks. I promised to read your sources, and did so, but after accusing me of not reading opposing viewpoints, you flat-out admitted that that's how you roll. Pretty typical of an AVer. By the way, that's called confirmation bias. You're welcome for the term and for the herd immunity.0 -
headofphat wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »Sorry, that was my way of saying that reading stuff on the internet doesn't count as research. In order to actually research vaccines, you need years and years (often a decade plus) of training in biology, immunology, bio-chemistry, laboratory procedures, etc. What we're doing is reading.
You don't follow the logic of burden of proof? Then why are you participating in a conversation? That's the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and saying LALALALALALALA when someone asks you a follow-up question. If you can't support your stance, just say so.
I can support my stance but you refuse to hear the other side. You only want to hear what supports your side. And yes, I'm basically sticking my fingers in my ear because I genuinely don't care if you get vaccinated. YOU can feel free to look around and find scientific evidence that vaccines don't work, it's out there. You just refuse to accept it because you already agree with the vaccination crowd. I say, good for you! You've taken a side and you're sticking with it.
Just don't get all high and mighty and tell people that they are irresponsible for not getting vaccincinations. It's a personal choice, whether you base it on science or JK Rowling novels it doesn't matter.
Go get your vaccinations, I wish you the best of luck. I'm not getting any and I don't care if it's "socially immoral".
<fingers in ears> LALALALALALALALALALA
Sure you can support it. Absolutely you can! Give me a pubmed article that supports your stance. Show me an unbiased source. Again, I'll read it, just like I did with other claptrap you posted.
I hear your side: it's filled with pseudoscience and illogical nonsense, but that doesn't mean I won't humor you. I'm asking you for a rational source, actual evidence, not the ramblings of a non-qualified quack. I'm sorry you don't have a basic understanding of science to see the difference between a blog espousing an opinion and actual medical research/reporting.
And yes, not-sorry if it offends you, but you are irresponsible for not vaccinating. When you needlessly put others at risk because you don't understand something, you are acting irresponsibly.0 -
It is so fun to read smart people claim science proves anything. True scientific research seeks to prove a hypothesis wrong. The only legitimate claim true science can make is that a theory can not be proven wrong. Impossible to conduct any legitimate scientific research starting with the premise of proving something is true because of the inherent and unavoidable bias. If you want to prove something true, you will conveniently (albeit unconsciously perhaps) avoid that which fails to prove. Conversely, if you are setting out to prove something false, no stone will get left unturned. I know, I know. Too much logic.0
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I got my shot this morning. It seems the years I don't get it, I get a horrible case of bronchitis. When I get the flu shot, I don't. Plus I work in a facility with about 1400 people from all walks of life, so it's best to have all the protection I can against whatever is out there.0
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I'm getting mine tomorrow, actually.
I'm pregnant, so it's a big deal from that standpoint. Because my immune system is much less while pregnant, the Flu can cause severe complications for me and my unborn baby. So yeah, I'm getting it.0 -
I say no..my kids (9 and 5) have had only 1 flu shot their entire lives and have never gotten the flu. Yes minor sniffles and an occasional sore throat but get some ginger tea and elderberry elixir and you don't need a flu shot!0
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I'm getting mine, you best get yours.0
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