Fruit Sugar

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  • Liftng4Lis
    Liftng4Lis Posts: 15,150 Member
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    Hi, I am trying to cut down meat not for a health point of view but for other reasons :)

    When in a deficit, its pretty important to get protein to help maintain muscle mass. If you don't eat meat there are tons of other ways to get it.
  • RllyGudTweetr
    RllyGudTweetr Posts: 2,019 Member
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    Acg67 wrote: »
    funchords wrote: »
    No, not all sugar is treated the same. There is evidence that fructose (a sugar in fruit but also the sugar in High Fructose Corn Syrup) is metabolized differently, converting more quickly to fat than expected.

    http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/does-fructose-make-you-fatter/

    Huge sample size

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2546703/

    Six whole subjects. Huge indeed.
  • GauchoMark
    GauchoMark Posts: 1,804 Member
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    Sarcasm is a great thing! Acg67's posts typically have it!

    I will point out that fruit sugar (aka fructose) IS processed differently. However, the evidence that it is going to make you fatter is not really there. Here is a good summary from an interesting article:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/an-objective-comparison-of-chocolate-milk-and-surge-recovery/
    Carbohydrate

    Surge has dextrose (synonymous with glucose) as its sole carbohydrate source, while chocolate milk has an even mix of sucrose (in the form of either sucrose or high-fructose corn syrup) and lactose. While it’s common to assume that dextrose is superior to sucrose for postexercise glycogen resynthesis, research doesn’t necessarily agree. A trial by Bowtell et al showed a glucose polymer to synthesize more glycogen by the 2-hr mark postworkout [14]. However, two other trials whose postexercise observation periods were 4 and 6 hours respectively saw no significant difference in glycogen storage between sucrose and glucose [15,16].

    Perhaps the most overlooked advantage of a fructose-containing carbohydrate source (sucrose is 50% fructose) is that it supports liver glycogen better than a glucose-only source, as in the case of Surge. A little-known fact is that hepatic glycogenolysis (liver glycogen use) occurs to a significant degree during exercise, and the magnitude of glycogenolysis is intensity-dependent [17]. Illustrating the potential superiority of sucrose over glucose, Casey et al saw no difference in muscle glycogen resynthesis 4 hrs postexercise [15]. However, there was more liver glycogen resynthesis in the sucrose group, and this correlated with a slightly greater exercise capacity.

    One of the potential concerns of consuming a large amount of sucrose instead of glucose is how the 50% fructose content in sucrose might be metabolized from a lipogenic standpoint. Answering this question directly, McDevitt saw no difference in de novo lipogenesis (conversion to fat) between the massive overfeeding of either glucose or sucrose at 135g above maintenance needs [18]. Another potential concern is the use of high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) in chocolate milk. The common fear of HFCS being some sort of special agent that undermines health is simply not grounded in science. HFCS is virtually identical to sucrose both in chemical structure and metabolic effect [19]. Independent researcher John White eloquently clarified HFCS misconceptions in a recent review, which I’ll quote [20].

    “Although examples of pure fructose causing metabolic upset at high concentrations abound, especially when fed as the sole carbohydrate source, there is no evidence that the common fructose-glucose sweeteners do the same. Thus, studies using extreme carbohydrate diets may be useful for probing biochemical pathways, but they have no relevance to the human diet or to current consumption. I conclude that the HFCS-obesity hypothesis is supported neither in the United States nor worldwide.”
  • angelamb1970
    angelamb1970 Posts: 123 Member
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    I have found it much more useful to check the Glycemic load of foods and beverages than going strictly by sugar grams here at MFP. Proteins, fiber and fats help to balance the rate insulin releases into your bloodstream.

    Minimizing insulin spikes throughout your life can aid in type 2 diabetes prevention later in life. Most whole fruits and most vegetables are just fine GL wise, so no need to heavily restrict those items.

    Juices and dried fruits are concentrated, and should be limited. Example to make 12 ounces of orange juice it takes 6 medium oranges. That is a ton of sugar, and you have removed almost all of the fiber. Not many people could or would eat 6 oranges in a sitting, but its easy to drink.
  • RllyGudTweetr
    RllyGudTweetr Posts: 2,019 Member
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    GauchoMark wrote: »
    Sarcasm is a great thing! Acg67's posts typically have it!

    I will point out that fruit sugar (aka fructose) IS processed differently. However, the evidence that it is going to make you fatter is not really there. Here is a good summary from an interesting article:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/an-objective-comparison-of-chocolate-milk-and-surge-recovery/
    Carbohydrate

    Surge has dextrose (synonymous with glucose) as its sole carbohydrate source, while chocolate milk has an even mix of sucrose (in the form of either sucrose or high-fructose corn syrup) and lactose. While it’s common to assume that dextrose is superior to sucrose for postexercise glycogen resynthesis, research doesn’t necessarily agree. A trial by Bowtell et al showed a glucose polymer to synthesize more glycogen by the 2-hr mark postworkout [14]. However, two other trials whose postexercise observation periods were 4 and 6 hours respectively saw no significant difference in glycogen storage between sucrose and glucose [15,16].

    Perhaps the most overlooked advantage of a fructose-containing carbohydrate source (sucrose is 50% fructose) is that it supports liver glycogen better than a glucose-only source, as in the case of Surge. A little-known fact is that hepatic glycogenolysis (liver glycogen use) occurs to a significant degree during exercise, and the magnitude of glycogenolysis is intensity-dependent [17]. Illustrating the potential superiority of sucrose over glucose, Casey et al saw no difference in muscle glycogen resynthesis 4 hrs postexercise [15]. However, there was more liver glycogen resynthesis in the sucrose group, and this correlated with a slightly greater exercise capacity.

    One of the potential concerns of consuming a large amount of sucrose instead of glucose is how the 50% fructose content in sucrose might be metabolized from a lipogenic standpoint. Answering this question directly, McDevitt saw no difference in de novo lipogenesis (conversion to fat) between the massive overfeeding of either glucose or sucrose at 135g above maintenance needs [18]. Another potential concern is the use of high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) in chocolate milk. The common fear of HFCS being some sort of special agent that undermines health is simply not grounded in science. HFCS is virtually identical to sucrose both in chemical structure and metabolic effect [19]. Independent researcher John White eloquently clarified HFCS misconceptions in a recent review, which I’ll quote [20].

    “Although examples of pure fructose causing metabolic upset at high concentrations abound, especially when fed as the sole carbohydrate source, there is no evidence that the common fructose-glucose sweeteners do the same. Thus, studies using extreme carbohydrate diets may be useful for probing biochemical pathways, but they have no relevance to the human diet or to current consumption. I conclude that the HFCS-obesity hypothesis is supported neither in the United States nor worldwide.”
    I actually caught the sarcasm; I was highlighting a relevant bit for the "TL;DR" folks.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    I have found it much more useful to check the Glycemic load of foods and beverages than going strictly by sugar grams here at MFP. Proteins, fiber and fats help to balance the rate insulin releases into your bloodstream.

    Minimizing insulin spikes throughout your life can aid in type 2 diabetes prevention later in life. Most whole fruits and most vegetables are just fine GL wise, so no need to heavily restrict those items.

    Juices and dried fruits are concentrated, and should be limited. Example to make 12 ounces of orange juice it takes 6 medium oranges. That is a ton of sugar, and you have removed almost all of the fiber. Not many people could or would eat 6 oranges in a sitting, but its easy to drink.

    Should people restrict protein to minimize insulin spiking?
  • RllyGudTweetr
    RllyGudTweetr Posts: 2,019 Member
    edited October 2014
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    I have found it much more useful to check the Glycemic load of foods and beverages than going strictly by sugar grams here at MFP. Proteins, fiber and fats help to balance the rate insulin releases into your bloodstream.

    Minimizing insulin spikes throughout your life can aid in type 2 diabetes prevention later in life. Most whole fruits and most vegetables are just fine GL wise, so no need to heavily restrict those items.

    Juices and dried fruits are concentrated, and should be limited. Example to make 12 ounces of orange juice it takes 6 medium oranges. That is a ton of sugar, and you have removed almost all of the fiber. Not many people could or would eat 6 oranges in a sitting, but its easy to drink.

    Relevant

    gnolls.org/1029/fat-and-glycemic-index-the-myth-of-complex-carbohydrates
  • RllyGudTweetr
    RllyGudTweetr Posts: 2,019 Member
    edited October 2014
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    Never mind. Found the fix.
  • GauchoMark
    GauchoMark Posts: 1,804 Member
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    edit button is in the gear in the upper right corner of your post
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
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    Thank you so much for getting back to me = all good to know! yes Vitamin water was a massive shock once I had finished it, but if you look at the past week has mostly been dates/grapes etc.

    Not really, Yoghurt is 10g a day, then there's the brownies, the fake sausages, the sugar, the honey, the potato farls........