Thoughts on veganism?
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neandermagnon wrote: »
Easy test: Can vegans eat mushrooms?claraoswold wrote: »Let's make sure it's understood, just the impact of REAL veganism, and not the pogue-ish half play most make at it.
There are fewer vaccines and medical treatments you can avail yourself of, thanks to the use of hermit crabs, and animal products used in the making of vaccines.
Oh, snake anti-venin? Right out.
Gas for your car? Better switch to corn based ethanol, because petroleum is an animal product.
That sweet leather jacket? Nope.
Red dye - for the most part, nope.
Chocolate? Nope.
I can go on, but let's make sure, if you're going vegan. Go vegan.
And you can add most beer to the above list ( fish bladders used for processing)
Wouldn't it be out anyway? Because of the yeast?
If the term " living creatures" applies to fungus (which yeast is according to my Google "research" )
Plants are living things too. They are alive and they are sensitive. They respond to changes in the environment... they have feelings. They can detect damage to themselves and respond to it.
There comes a point at which we just have to accept that we are animals and as such incapable of photosynthesising, and therefore dependent on ingesting other organisms to get the energy to stay alive.
This is one of my all time favourite threads: community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1332132/looking-for-fooditarian-friends
Careful, calling plants living things that can sense their environment can create an inconvenient issue for the more ardent vegans.
it's like the philsopher who argues that doing research on bacteria is immoral because they can sense stimulus. Meaning they have feelings.... lol0 -
That's because we've been raising them that way. But they're classified as an insectivore much like a robin would be.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Chickens will eat about anything and love vegetables, fruit and many flowers. And bugs.
A cat is a carnivore, but will eat grass.
Deer will eat birds if they can get hold of them - they do so for extra calcium.
There are exceptions for every animal.
I don't know how far back in the history of chickens you'd have to go to find a chicken that would only eat bugs if also offered plants, but chickens of today are not like that. They don't eat plants because we give them plants, they eat them because they like them. When let loose to roam and forage for their own food, they will eat plants and bugs and sometimes lizards and mice. And if you let them loose in your garden to help get rid of bugs, they will gladly feast on some of your vegetables and fruit as well.0 -
neandermagnon wrote: »
Easy test: Can vegans eat mushrooms?claraoswold wrote: »Let's make sure it's understood, just the impact of REAL veganism, and not the pogue-ish half play most make at it.
There are fewer vaccines and medical treatments you can avail yourself of, thanks to the use of hermit crabs, and animal products used in the making of vaccines.
Oh, snake anti-venin? Right out.
Gas for your car? Better switch to corn based ethanol, because petroleum is an animal product.
That sweet leather jacket? Nope.
Red dye - for the most part, nope.
Chocolate? Nope.
I can go on, but let's make sure, if you're going vegan. Go vegan.
And you can add most beer to the above list ( fish bladders used for processing)
Wouldn't it be out anyway? Because of the yeast?
If the term " living creatures" applies to fungus (which yeast is according to my Google "research" )
Plants are living things too. They are alive and they are sensitive. They respond to changes in the environment... they have feelings. They can detect damage to themselves and respond to it.
There comes a point at which we just have to accept that we are animals and as such incapable of photosynthesising, and therefore dependent on ingesting other organisms to get the energy to stay alive.
This is one of my all time favourite threads: community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1332132/looking-for-fooditarian-friends
Careful, calling plants living things that can sense their environment can create an inconvenient issue for the more ardent vegans.
it's like the philsopher who argues that doing research on bacteria is immoral because they can sense stimulus. Meaning they have feelings.... lol
That is the problem, because where do you draw the line in all this? We're animals, i.e. we have to eat other organisms to survive. The idea of breatharianism is a very nice one, just living directly off sunlight and air......... BUT animals haven't evolved the ability to photosynthesise in 600 million years so a few nut job humans aren't going to wishfully think their way into photosynthesising. They just have to accept that they're not plants and never will be.
I'm an omnivore and so I eat an omnivorous diet, because that's what my species evolved to eat. And I have been vegan in the past, and I feel a lot better for eating meat (including red meat) and dairy products. And yes I was careful to eat all the right foods to get the full range of nutrients. I just function better on an omnivorous diet that includes dairy products (and yes I did evolve to eat those too, because I'm European, i.e. descended from a few thousand years of dairy farming. Evolution didn't stop when we evolved vertical foreheads and pointy chins.)
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neandermagnon wrote: »That is the problem, because where do you draw the line in all this? We're animals, i.e. we have to eat other organisms to survive. The idea of breatharianism is a very nice one, just living directly off sunlight and air......... BUT animals haven't evolved the ability to photosynthesise in 600 million years so a few nut job humans aren't going to wishfully think their way into photosynthesising. They just have to accept that they're not plants and never will be.
I'm an omnivore and so I eat an omnivorous diet, because that's what my species evolved to eat. And I have been vegan in the past, and I feel a lot better for eating meat (including red meat) and dairy products. And yes I was careful to eat all the right foods to get the full range of nutrients. I just function better on an omnivorous diet that includes dairy products (and yes I did evolve to eat those too, because I'm European, i.e. descended from a few thousand years of dairy farming. Evolution didn't stop when we evolved vertical foreheads and pointy chins.)
I'll be honest, I've never understood the desire for some to take on special affectations. Be it hipsters, fops, mods, goths, herps, derps, nerds, vegans, cultists... Is it a desire to be part of something insular to feel protected from the overall society at large? Is it a shield to protect themselves?
We're omnivores, we kill, we eat. Some of us may not like it, but it is what it is. I wonder how many vegans actually care about animal bykill from farmed crops? Imagine the conflict if they saw what a combine does to a rabbit caught in a field?0 -
I think it boils down to the fact that we need to all stop living by labels and just do what feels *right* to you. If you feel it's right to eat meat, eat it! (Although even the biggest meat lovers out there would have to agree that the current industry practices are pretty appalling). Same goes for eggs...dairy...honey...leather, etc. etc. Live by your own ethics, no one else's. Personally, my diet would be considered mainly vegan, but I do eat eggs, but only from a local farmer, and I eat honey (also a local guy down the road who raises bees). Some may disagree with me on that, and that's ok...but I can sleep at night with my choices. Do what allows you to sleep at night! You only have yourself to answer to.0
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So your diet is considered an omnivore's diet with an emphasis on plant matter.0
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My opinion is that there are no health benefits to eating vegan. You can be an unhealthy vegan just as easily as an unhealthy omnivore. As far as ethics go, I'm all for not torturing animals, but humans exist at the top of the food chain for a reason. Animals are here to feed and sustain us. It is our job to use them responsibly and treat the humanely, but I think it's completely asinine to assign human emotions to animals, and declare that they deserve the same rights I do. It's an ANIMAL. They have the right to be delicious, and nothing more.0
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I was and enjoyed being vegan for many years. I do find it's easier when you are in a progressive area, though. I've stopped because I acquired anemia and my ethics no longer aligned 100% w/veganism, so I am now a pescetarian. Best of luck on your journey.0
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I think it boils down to the fact that we need to all stop living by labels and just do what feels *right* to you. If you feel it's right to eat meat, eat it! (Although even the biggest meat lovers out there would have to agree that the current industry practices are pretty appalling). Same goes for eggs...dairy...honey...leather, etc. etc. Live by your own ethics, no one else's. Personally, my diet would be considered mainly vegan, but I do eat eggs, but only from a local farmer, and I eat honey (also a local guy down the road who raises bees). Some may disagree with me on that, and that's ok...but I can sleep at night with my choices. Do what allows you to sleep at night! You only have yourself to answer to.
well said. Speaking of honey, have you seen my honey post? The pitchforks are out! lol0 -
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I know, accuracy is so unreasonable.
Luckily, I'm not wearing a murdershirt.0 -
There are some who already eschew vaccines for other reasons, but ok, no hermit crab cures.Let's make sure it's understood, just the impact of REAL veganism, and not the pogue-ish half play most make at it.
There are fewer vaccines and medical treatments you can avail yourself of, thanks to the use of hermit crabs, and animal products used in the making of vaccines.
Is this a concern where you live? I don't know anyone who's ever been bitten by a snake (and I'm assuming you meant "anti-venom").Oh, snake anti-venin? Right out.
Yeah, we all know how the typical Vegan hates bicycling.Gas for your car? Better switch to corn based ethanol, because petroleum is an animal product.
Wow, there goes that red leather jacket I've had my eyes on. Seriously, do you not know that many already consider it gauche to wear leather (yeah, I know you probably have leather seats in your Hummer, but that's besides the point).That sweet leather jacket? Nope.
Red dye - for the most part, nope.
Oh, and telling someone who's chosen to be Vegan (which is typically a decision arrived at due to "ethical" reasons) that they can now no longer wear the skin of an animal, like that's some sort of punishment? Priceless.
Now this actually counts (although not a surprise to any Vegan who can read).Chocolate? Nope.
Well, you probably should, since I assume this list is just you "warming up."I can go on, but let's make sure, if you're going vegan. Go vegan.-3 -
I sense butthurt.
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You really don't know anyone who has ever been bitten by a snake? Where do you live?LiminalAscendance wrote: »
Is this a concern where you live? I don't know anyone who's ever been bitten by a snake (and I'm assuming you meant "anti-venom").Oh, snake anti-venin? Right out.
Edit: Now that I'm looking up venomous snakes of the world, this is an interesting database of venomous snake distribution and their corresponding antivenom: http://apps.who.int/bloodproducts/snakeantivenoms/database/default.htm0 -
Ladybug1250 wrote: »I think it boils down to the fact that we need to all stop living by labels and just do what feels *right* to you. If you feel it's right to eat meat, eat it! (Although even the biggest meat lovers out there would have to agree that the current industry practices are pretty appalling). Same goes for eggs...dairy...honey...leather, etc. etc. Live by your own ethics, no one else's. Personally, my diet would be considered mainly vegan, but I do eat eggs, but only from a local farmer, and I eat honey (also a local guy down the road who raises bees). Some may disagree with me on that, and that's ok...but I can sleep at night with my choices. Do what allows you to sleep at night! You only have yourself to answer to.
well said. Speaking of honey, have you seen my honey post? The pitchforks are out! lol
So is veganism kind of like Paleo now? i.e. I don't have to follow any "rules" that I don't like but I can still consider myself to be vegan/paleo?0 -
You really don't know anyone who has ever been bitten by a snake? Where do you live?LiminalAscendance wrote: »
Is this a concern where you live? I don't know anyone who's ever been bitten by a snake (and I'm assuming you meant "anti-venom").Oh, snake anti-venin? Right out.
She was right, it's not anti-venin, it's antivenin. I didn't realize it wasn't hyphenated. No snakes? I'd surmise by that silliness, and the rest of their post... urbanite. Full cement jungle.0 -
You really don't know anyone who has ever been bitten by a snake? Where do you live?LiminalAscendance wrote: »
Is this a concern where you live? I don't know anyone who's ever been bitten by a snake (and I'm assuming you meant "anti-venom").Oh, snake anti-venin? Right out.
She was right, it's not anti-venin, it's antivenin. I didn't realize it wasn't hyphenated. No snakes? I'd surmise by that silliness, and the rest of their post... urbanite. Full cement jungle.
There are wooded areas with no poisonous snakes. That wouldn't necessarily prevent snake bites, but non-poisonous snakes are far less likely to bite than poisonous snakes.
And, there would be no need for antivenom (correct spelling, the hyphen wasn't the only problem).0 -
So... if you had a pet dog... would you eat it?AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »My opinion is that there are no health benefits to eating vegan. You can be an unhealthy vegan just as easily as an unhealthy omnivore. As far as ethics go, I'm all for not torturing animals, but humans exist at the top of the food chain for a reason. Animals are here to feed and sustain us. It is our job to use them responsibly and treat the humanely, but I think it's completely asinine to assign human emotions to animals, and declare that they deserve the same rights I do. It's an ANIMAL. They have the right to be delicious, and nothing more.
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You really don't know anyone who has ever been bitten by a snake? Where do you live?LiminalAscendance wrote: »
Is this a concern where you live? I don't know anyone who's ever been bitten by a snake (and I'm assuming you meant "anti-venom").Oh, snake anti-venin? Right out.
Edit: Now that I'm looking up venomous snakes of the world, this is an interesting database of venomous snake distribution and their corresponding antivenom: http://apps.who.int/bloodproducts/snakeantivenoms/database/default.htm
Haha Canada is nearly in the clear! Good ol' rattlesnakes...0
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